Re: Parenting advice needed
 

Just wait. Between 14 and 18 every other word out of their mouths (when they think you aren't around) will be cum, pussy, fuck and blow job.

And the boys are even worse.

Re: Parenting advice needed
 

That is the cutest thing you've ever posted. And it cheered me up today.

Re: Parenting advice needed
 

OTOH, it will be a while before I'll be able to truly enjoy a cheeseburger again.

The Good Cop.
 

I can't remember how old I was, really. Probably 7 or 8 years old, I guess. But I do remember the nightmare. I remember waking up with a start, sitting up ramrod straight in bed and calling for my parents.

It must've been pretty late (or pretty early). My Dad came into my room, bleary eyed, and asked, What's the matter?

I had a nightmare, Dad. It was horrible.

What about?

I was stuck on railroad tracks, and I was trying to get away from a train.

And then what happened?

I kept trying to get away. I couldn't just walk off the tracks, I had to keep running on them. And it got closer, and closer. And CLOSER. It was going to run me over!

And then what happened?

Well ... I woke up! It was horrible.

With the benefit of perspective and time, I know that it was because it was late (or early), and my Dad was exhausted. That's most likely why he sighed and told me that what I described was a dumb nightmare as nightmares go, and I should get over it and go back to sleep. He got up, turned out the light, and left me in the dark to sort it out on my own.

I hated that. And I swore then and there with the kind of stone-cold certainty that only 7 year olds possess that when I was a father, by God I was going to listen to my son and give him more comfort than that, you asshole.

******

So I have a 9yo son. One who, as a younger child, seemed scared of his own shadow. It was a source of significant frustration back when the kid was a toddler. It's less of an issue these days, but sometimes even today the problem still rears its head.

This evening after the boys are to bed, I hear Daaaaad, DaaAAAAAaaaaad! from upstairs from the 9yo. Convinced that his calls will wake the 5yo Gaplet, I hustle upstairs to get him to stop.

What's the matter?

I'm having scary thoughts.

What about?

Gaplet then, over the course of about 5 minutes, starts to tell me a long, rambling and discursive story about the movie clip that he saw as a preview for another movie - one that lasted about 3 or 4 seconds, but had a scene with a kid about his age in bed who rolls over and sees a scary-looking monster dude in bed next to him to yells "Surprise!" all spooky-like and wow, it was scary, and I just can't get it out of my head!

I stifle the impulse to tell him to get over it and go back to sleep and think, Well, Gatti, this is your Teachable Moment.

So I take a deep breath, and talk it through with him. I explain how movies are made, that they're make-believe (which he, of course, knows.) I make up a story about how even thought the freaky monster dude looks horrible, he's probably a normal, nice guy who gets transformed after sitting in the makeup artist's chair for several hours, like with Gaplet's experiences in some theater productions. I make up a story about how the day they shot that scene, he probably had really bad gas and sat in the makeup chair and farted out the tune to Camptown Ladies - which I figured (correctly) would be a big hit with my 9yo. I got him laughing about it, and explained that this is what he could think about if the movie got stuck in his head again, and in any event it was time to go to bed. I turn out the lights and whistle a couple of bars to Camptown Ladies, to giggles from Gaplet.

I walk downstairs, thinking, nice job, Gatti. You sly devil, you.

10 minutes later. Daaaaaad. DaAAAAAAAAAaaaaad!

I hustle upstairs. Dad, Gaplet says, I can't shake this image, and can't get to sleep. What do I do?

I clasp my hand to stifle the strangling impulse and say, Look. I'll get Mom to come talk it through with you. Maybe she'll have some other ideas.

I walk downstairs and tell Ms. Gap, your turn. "Okay," says she.

She wanders upstairs, talks with Gaplet for a few minutes, and soon all lights are out. She comes downstairs.

So what'd you say?

"I told him to get over it."

WHAT? No, nonononono. That's supposed to be MY job, dammit.

"Huh uh. You're going to be the good cop."

Gattigap

Re: The Good Cop.
 

I just watched Mike Rowe bite the testicles off a sheep. Have you a valediction for me, boyo?

Re: The Good Cop.
 

Sure. Get over the beastiality porn, son, or it'll get over you.

Re: Parenting advice needed
 

I'd talk to the little asshole, but I'd also probably tell the parents in passing. My highly effective technique for making children too uncomfortable to swear around me is to feign confusion and ask why "bitch" is an insult. I regularly do that with kids who throw around "gay" or "fag" as an insult. Might not work so well in your small town, but in my supposedly enlightened part of the world, kids smarten up.

Re: Parenting advice needed
 

Something doesn't add up here. Since when do they let kids in your office?

Re: Parenting advice needed
 

The Monster is 12, and he currently gets a thrill out of calling me a fuckhead, dildo, or any of a variety of interesting names. He's sort of testing his independence. My father would have busted my jaw. I've slapped him on the back of the head a couple of times, but concluded that nothing short of a police-involvement level dull-scale beatdown would get him to stop.

So, I'm ignoring it. But, in 4 years, the little fucker will have a driver's license. I wonder who's going to be the fuckhead then. :D

Re: Parenting advice needed
 

I was going to ask when they started letting him see his own kids other than the court-supervised visits. Those don't really last long enough for much in-depth conversation.

Re: Parenting advice needed
 

How about threatening to move to Nebraska?

Re: Parenting advice needed
 

Close. I've threatened to send him.

Advice?
 

One of my nieces is a high school sophomore. She's a little high-strung -- trust me, she comes by it honestly -- but otherwise seems like a totally normal kid. She's witty, a fast talker (it seems they all are at that age), and empathetic. Her parents are both pretty successful in their fields and can both be a little retentive, but their home life is comfortable and at the high-end range of functioning. She lives on the East Coast so we don't see her all the time, but when she talks about problems it seems like normal teen girl trauma -- school, bitchy friends, and more school.

So here's the thing -- we just found out that they're thinking of putting her on Xanax. Her mom says that some of her friends are already on it, and it has improved their outlook a great deal.

I'm outraged. Of course, I don't have complete insight into her day-to-day, but with the information that I know and putting it into the preexisting narrative of What I Think Is Wrong With America, this seems completely wrong to me.

I appreciate that there are real things called mood disorders and that some people need medication in order to do chemically what their brain cannot do organically. I get that. Depression and anxiety are real things.

But so is being a teenager. Let's assume that there's something going on here where she's struggling more than I've been led to know. Still, I'm gobsmacked that someone would even consider taking a teenager and attempting to treat symptoms without knowing whether she has a permanent condition that requires medication. Call me silly, but I thought these drugs were supposed to be prescribed when other approaches to a particular pathology had failed. I've go no objections at all to adults taking these drugs, because I trust that they would only do so as adults, figuring out that they needed to get past whatever was blocking their uptake of life's happiness. But a fucking teenager? If my kids are frustrated, anxious and unhappy at age 15 that's how I'll know they're growing up correctly. I didn't realize that adolescence, even in its extreme pathological form, was a condition requiring medication.

Am I being too, pardon the phrase, prescriptive here? Am I old-fashioned to think that pharmaceutical mood alteration is pretty serious stuff, and that even if she experiences a positive outcome there's still moral risk here?

Re: Advice?
 

And people laugh at Scientology?

When the kindergarten teacher recommended Ritalin for icky Jr. I told the school I was a Scientologist and further comments would bring the full legal wrath of the church upon them.

Re: Advice?
 

I haven't heard of a big push to drug teens. I saw it at the 1st and 2nd grade level. We did that chat here, one sock felt his kid really benefited. But I know some of my kids' friends got stuck on drugs where it made no sense (1 boy, who is the son of a neo-natoligist who is sort of introverted and spacey, was drugged for being introverted and spacey, etc.)

do you know if the initial push was from school, or if she went to a therapist for some other reason? I would tend to think less of a school initiated "suggestion" than one from an outside guy.

In the end, it's tough. I'm sure the parents are not pleased to have reached such a decision, and they have thought through everything you said.

At best, a simple, "I've heard from people with older kids that too many kids get meds prescribed now-a-days, are you really sure she needs this, she seems really normal," might be all you can say. If you want you can tell her you heard it from Hank Chinaski, then link her to my other parents' board posts so she understands the weight that she should place on the advice?

Re: Advice?
 

I take xanax because I have severe coronary artery disease, congestive heart failure, and a history of unstable angina. I find I generally take my xanax about one-third of the presecribed dosage.

When did she have her life-threatening health event that makes keeping her on a low purr sort of a medical necessity?

Re: Advice?
 

I take xanax because I like it.

Re: Advice?
 

Phrases like "some of her friends are already on it" drive my blood pressure to new levels. Too many parents succomb to peer pressure. But, I do know of situations where drugs were not only useful, but almost indispensible, and you might not see them all from afar. Perfectly normal, enthusiastic kids may be unable to focus enough to get through reading a book. Pyschotropic drugs gave us David Foster Wallace's novels, too, so they have some redeeming value.

I am a firm believer though, that drugs should be a last resort, and the earlier resorts should include religion, travel, diet modification, mutliple physician consults (including a good neurologist), a regular night at the theatre with her parents, and even psychological quakery. I've heard success stories for each of these - perhaps most regularly for diet modification and neurological consults. Suggest some of these alternatives. And let me know if you need expamples of cases where they worked.

Re: Advice?
 

On the other hand, and I know this is going to be an unpopular position, you aren't this child's parent. Nor is Atticus. Nor am I.

I'm doing my best to parent the Brazenette. I make decisions about what's in her best interest, because I am her mother, because I love her to distraction, because I know her better than any other living person. Sometimes I make good decisions and sometimes I make bad decisions. But the bottom line is, as her parent, those decisions are mine to make. It is my obligation, my burden and my joy. And I rankle at the idea that anyone other than me knows better what decision I should have made...

Or grandfather
 

I agree that I have no reason to stick my nose into their business. But he's an Uncle - he gets to interfere. In my family, uncles often interfere in their nieces and nephews lives, even when they're not the father.

Re: Advice?
 

am i on ignore?

Re: Or grandfather
 

most families, especially ones separated by a continent, this isn't so true.

Re: Or grandfather
 

Absent a request for input, I would smack either of my brothers who felt it was within their rights to interfere.

My brothers would assume that I'd done my homework, weighted all alternatives, and made an informed and loving decision.

Why should Atticus assume otherwise, or that he somehow knows better?

Re: Or grandfather
 

You do read his posts, don't you?

Re: Or grandfather
 

he plans on saying something over the phone.

Re: Or grandfather
 

Yay! I'm not on ignore!

Yeah, I get that it's meddling. Family dynamics are such that everyone is allowed to judge one another without too many hurt feelings, because a sense of humor about oneself is prized above all else, but this particular sister is known to lash out over parenting issues in violation of the general rule. Chances I will say something to her are in the low zeroes. I just wanted to know if my emotional response to it was off-base, so I know which side of the family's whispering campaign I should join. I'm leaning toward the "What a terrible decision to face; I would have done the opposite" camp.

interesting parallel
 

we had the bizarro of AG's issue come.

Freshman year our daughter hears from a friend that em get ritalin for ADD. ADD is described and daughter realizes that the symptoms might well explain why she can't study. That is, it's not the nightly beer pong to blame for the poor grades, it's organic.

she tells us she is getting the meds, we tell her she is nuts and she reminds us she is 18. fun times.

luckily she got distracted by something else and forgot.

as Atticus can attest, she has moved on to crafting very creative Halloween coustumes.

Re: Or grandfather
 

hmm. any chance Zoraster spoke on a similar question in – Avesta.

Re: interesting parallel
 

No pun intended, I'm sure.

Re: Or grandfather
 

I say this with all affection for Atticus and with recognition that I frequently offer my own opinion where it's not wanted, but this is a parental decision and all other tongues should be held.

And I would say that maybe you should reconsider your interference with your siblings' parenting decisions, too, but then I'd be peeing in a tent where my nose doesn't belong, or something like that.

He doesn't live in their house or in the girl's head, and his niece's current situation is not about What Is Wrong With America but about what is going on in her life. That her other friends are on Xanax is irrelevant.

It's up to her parents to determine whether it's garden-variety teen angst or anxiety warranting treatment, and whether that treatment should be pharmaceutical or more "holistic." Moreover, children can and do have anxiety and depression that may respond to medication. It's no more normal for a child to have a mood disorder than it is for an adult. To say that high school is stressful is to say that life is stressful. If she were in her 20s and in law school, would you be so quick to chalk up whatever she's going through to academic stress? If in her 30s and at a law firm, job stress? In her 40s, sandwich-generation stress? In the nursing home, realizing that even at death's door, life is like high school stress?

Of course, if Atticus thought that their parenting judgment were severely compromised for some reason, such as drug or alcohol abuse or severe dysfunction in the home - which he stated is not the case - then he would have grounds to step in. But as to a mere difference of opinion and philosophy - no matter how strongly held those opinions are - well, it's just not his place.

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 

Yeah. Shaddup, Atticus.

Re: Or grandfather
 

I'm actually the least interfering of my sibs. I usually wait until the blood has stopped flowing and the combatants are exhausted, and then step in to provide balanced and sagacious advice when requested.

I also speak last at weddings, baptisms, bar mitzvahs, wakes and funerals.

Can a family member truly be a butowski? I mean, if all your family members held their tongue on some idiot thing your sister did, she'd still feel the cold shoulder somewhere, wouldn't she? I admire any family that can avoid it, but I haven't had the personal experience.

Re: Or grandfather
 

This would stop them?

Are you guys all wasps?

Re: Or grandfather
 

It's a regular passive-aggressive smorgasbord around here, isn't it? And just in time for the holiday season.

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 

So says the man who let his kid get into show business! What are you thinking? I would never do that to my kids. Even though they're gorgeous and talented.

Re: Or grandfather
 

Absent the belief that I am in danger, or am going to be a danger to someone else, my brothers would keep their mouths shut, especially about parenting decisions.

I do them the same courtesy.

But mostly, it's that I love them and trust them and know that they love their children.

Re: Or grandfather
 

Your family is more polite than mine.

We get shit all the time for having one kid on a ton of drugs for her allergies. Because of the effectiveness of the drugs half the family doesn't think she has asthma or allergies. We tried to reduce the number of drugs, but it seems we are at a perfect balancing point and to pull even one pill from the cocktail send her into a coughing fit within 48 hours.

I know that is completely different from psychoactive drugs, but we had several doctors in the family tell us that she didn't need to be medicated at all before we went to the pediatrician. They just weren't there for the major attacks and she was a bit atypical in her reactions.

So whisper on whichever side you want. The real problem seems to be the mom telling you and then following up with statements that justify the decision based on peers. Some people aren't very good at understanding how others will feel about such justifications. you just have to trust that your kin, or their doctors, are a bit smarter than the average teenager.

Re: Or grandfather
 

I'm fairly certain it wouldn't stop them, but it is certainly how I would react.

Only 2 people are currently entitled to weigh in on parenting decisions at present: the Brazenette's father and the Brazenette's soon-to-be-step-father.

At some point, I expect a future-as-yet-not-named-step-mother will also have weighing in rights.

Re: General discussion - Mom and Dad Esq.
 

Look, I needed a plausible entree into the easy sex and drugs coursing through the industry. I'm sure when he's old enough, he will both understand and forgive me.

Re: Or grandfather
 

Part of the problem is that the pro-Xanax folks didn't hold their tongues, but the anti-Xanax folks are seen as meddling when they offer a counterpoint. In that context, it will quickly become the new normal. A nuclear family is not an island, and I assume Sister shared this with us before it was a fait accompli because she needed help in the decision. I'm not convinced that the only kind of help that is appropriate to offer a family member is necessarily "support."

That said, your point that nearly every way of saying what I want to say will come off as an attack on her parenting is something I agree with 100%, which is why I never asked whether I should say something.