Why do you support Israel's destruction of Lebanese democracy?

Please note that Hezbollah and Hamas are political parties with substantial support, and that Hamas won in free elections.

Selective editing
 

Oh, Penske knows that. He was just funnin' me. He's just working on developing a slightly lighter comedic touch when he throws around accusations of anti-Semitism.

Selective editing
 

And what sort would that be?

so did the Nazis...........and the Clintons for that matter

Ty,

The Honourable Mr. Dingle from Michigan tells us that Hezbollah is a terrorist organisation..........please tell me you are not voicing support for a terrorist organisation in the middle of America's War on Terror???

My rant is against the misrepresentation of any fact to the public for any purpose, even keeping people healthy. If the public can't understand epidemiological data (which it obviously can't, since even the press, and an assumed educated sector of the public, seems incapable of understanding it), then it should be offered with caveats, such as:

"NOTE: MOST PEOPLE WHO [INSERT VICE OR UNHEALTHY BEHAVIOR] DO NOT GET DISEASE. THIS IS EPIDEMIOLOGICAL DATA, WHICH MEANS THAT WHEN WE SAY YOUR 'RISK' INCREASES TWOFOLD, WE MEAN IT INCREASES FROM 1 IN 100,000 TO 2 IN 100,000."

If people must read this kind of data, why would it be a bad thing for them to understand it? Couldn't it save us a good deal of hysteria about diseases? A person I worked with wore sunscreen every day, even in the winter, because she read somewhere that accumulated sunlight over a lifetime could give you cancer. The article, of course, failed to note that it was physically impossible to get a skin cancer from 300 years worth of two minute jaunts from the subway to her office building (which was about the extent of her daily exposure to the sun's rays). That's probably the press's fault, but I think the medical community has an obligation to make sure the press explains a story in full, instead of writing it in a manner to scare people. But no one does that, because they figure the hyper-vigilance of the deluded is good for the deluded's health. Seems like lying by ommission to me.

To their credit, at least the Nazis won with a majority.

I'm starting to think that your political . . . confusion . . . is a by-product of your poor reading comprehension and inability to reason logically. Iraq's government was democratically elected, and likewise stands accused of awful acts of terrorism. The two, sadly, are not inconsistent.

I do not believe the Nazis won a majority in a national election before Hitler became Chancellor. The majorities came later, after they arrested the Communists, etc.

eta: Check out 1932-33 here.

I don't give a rat's ass what Dingell "really thinks" deep down inside when he isn't out there making dumb ass statements like that one. His remarks were astonishingly stupid and I expect more from my representatives, period. He fucked up, period. I'm glad he's written more on the topic, Ty, because he fucked up bad enough that it would have been some bad shit if he didn't follow up. Now.....admit the guy fucked up and move on. And by the way, whatever this "don't divide us" schtick is, it's kind of retarded. Sorry I couldn't put that more gently.

Uh, I think it was Bush who won w/o a majority, not Clinton.

quick! delete this one!

Sebby,

You know I love you like the alcoholic ex-inlaw who came to my wedding drunk and licked my motherinlaw-to-be on the neck and arm, but we have moved on from Healthcare. No one gives a rat's arse. People get old. People get sick. Are there no nursing homes, no assisted livings?

We are now trying to dissect why Ty hates America and supports terrorist organisations bent on the destruction of Israel and the fledgling democracies that CinC GWB has created out of whole cloth in the middle east. Please stay on topic.

Thanks,

Penske, the Moderator who supports the responsible exercise of freedom

can you admit the German populance, at some point- any point, took a stance against Jewish people?

The guy is maybe inarticulate, but in no way fucked up. What is unclear to me is why you, Rush, Victor Davis Hanson, and other conservatives think it's OK to smear people like this. In Hanson's case, it's clearly a determined effort to smear. Is it some sort of panic about the fall elections? Get a fucking grip. Penske does it to stir the pot, but the rest of you seem to be serious.

Okay, but second-hand smoke is bad for non-smokers and who really cares "how much" bad it is. If the majority of people in a particular place (maybe by referundum or whatever) want smoking banned, then so be it and aren't you supposed to be, like, "government shouldn't interfere" and stuff? Or does the libertarian thing apply to what each individual wants to do, but not to what the majority of people want to do? Would it be okay if the no-smoking thing was enforced by non-government people? Private business? Vigilantism?

And yet even after killing Vince Foster, and the Branch Davidians, the Clintons were not able to consolidate their power such that they could get a majority.

eta: interesting... Wikipedia has no entry for Arkancide. I know what I am doing with the rest of my week...

Does he want me to delete it or edit it for accuracy?

I have no issue with people passing referendums to ban smoking because they don't like it or want it around them, even if it weren't bad for people. People can vote to do whatever they like.

But the govt, and medical care professionals, ought to be honest with people about the risks of certain behaviors. We should not allow people to operate under misapprehensions that they're going to fucking die from everything, which the press loves to push on people, and the govt gets behind as a sort of "beneficial white lie." Epidemiological information should contain caveats similar to free stock market info... disclaimers that this is macro info, and "ymmv."

OK, um, your responses on this seem mildly less stupid than what you have to say about pensions. But it may be just because I know more about pensions that health.

translation: Hezbollah ain't all bad.

So its ok to lie to people for their own good?

Dingle went to Georgetown for both undergrad and law....is that some sort of thinly veiled snide commentary on the education that one of America's finest Jesuit universities provides??!?! Why do you hate the Jesuits and by association their boss, Jesus?

"Public health" seems to me to be Nanny State propaganda. I understand there's an economically sensible reason behind it, but doesn't it kind of creep you out that we're scaring people into monitoring their health? When society has to manipulate people into taking care of themselves, I think that's an indicator the people are a bit diminished.

But then, I live in Philly, where there's always at leat three imbeciles in spitting distance. Maybe the average American does need to be told when to wipe his ass.

I've read the entire quote from the guy and I think his comments were poorly conceived, poorly thought out and poorly executed. Pointing out the retardness of the guy's comments (and bad timing there!) on a lawyers message board is therefore smearing him in some grave fashion like I'm "dividing the country?" WTF! Sounds like SOMEONE ELSE needs to get a grip.

As for Rush - I've never even seen the guy's show (or heard it on the radio). I have no interest in the guy. My understanding from newspapers and the internet is that he's a somethingorother-icain addict Fat who schtupped his former housekeeper or something. Apparently, he's "smeared" a lot of people. Who the fuck cares. I don't need someone else's spin on Dingell's comment to consider it for myself in full.

And by the way, Ty, I posted the article because of the odd way the analysis doesn't seem to match his conclusion. The Dingell quote in the beginning meant nothing to me in terms of my decision to post the Hanson article on the board. What I found interesting was his analysis somehow lead to the conclusion that we shouldn't worry about the continued state of Israel. At least that is what is being discuss IRL about the article (over here in these parts).

I like Hezbollah; it makes me horny.

Jesuits, eh? Agricola, agricolae, agricolarum...

I hate Jesuits.

There are hypochondriacs everywhere. I thank god that my grandmother is in an HMO or else she'd be personally driving up Medicare to the tune of several million to get all the things that she thinks are wrong with her fixed. It escapes her notice that her parents both lived well into their ninties and that she's as healthy as a horse.

There is despite your assertions to the contrary, an increased incidence of lung cancer and other illnesses associated with exposure to second hand smoke. It is neither irresponsible nor an over-reaction for public health officials or other public officials to try to minimize the risk of exposure in areas that they control, citing health reasons. Same goes for ozone. Most of the time the warnings are issued as such: sitting unprotected in the sun for too long can lead to an increased risk for cancer, wrinkles, melasma (my particular sun-related curse), etc.

If you want to really get into an interesting public health discussion, start thinking about the DDT ban's contribution to the increased incidence of malaria in countries that can ill afford to have their populations and health care systems strained.

What can I say? I've decided to try to learn from Penske.

As I think I said above more than once, I agree that the guy didn't state his views very well. But in light of the many other times that he has condemned Hezbollah, it's obvious that most of the attempts to smear him are just that. In your case, perhaps not.

I read far enough into the article to see that Hanson, like Rush, was smearing Dingell by making him out to be a friend of Hezbollah. Sorry -- that's as far as I got.

Ty,

In fairness, you are not assimilating the lesson correctly. I support America and Israel and condemn their joint and several enemies, not the other way around. Do you read left to right or right to left?

Don't have much time for epidemiological information these days. But...I'd be totally fine if my pack of Benson & Hedges Ultra Lights had a cute little "YMMV" under the surgeon general warning box. I'm totally fine with that.

Did you use condoms when you had non-monogomous sex? I mean, hey, the chances of getting HIV are pretty low, and it's not THAT likely that your partners had sex with homosexuals or IV drug users or Hatians or Africans. It certainly doesn't happen to everyone having unprotected sex, just a small unfortunate subset of very unlucky bastards. Yeah, the chances of herpes and HPV and ghonnaria are higher, but they not as life threatening.

Let's keep bareback hoggin' and cream pies on the FB. Thank you.

Now, now, it's not like YOU knew precisely what Dingell's pre-fuck up comments were about Hezbollah. It's good to find out after the fact what his comments have been historically, but there is nothing wrong in reporting on or criticizing the guy for making the dumb ass comments, which is what we're doing here and you are just being so stubborn about (or accusing us of being like Rush or some shit). I'm glad you posted the "other" comments he has made. It's good to think maybe he was having a bad day -- the day he acted like an assjack that is.

Well, you didn't get very far then, since the Dingell comment was basically the first sentence. I, on the other hand, ignored the pithy quote and went to the text of what the guy said. In fairness, I did that because the person who sent me the link was talking about how folks feel about the continued existence of Israel. So now everyone can go have a smoke and catch some sleep.

I take the 5th.

You're nuts. Hanson's nothing like Rush. I hate them both.

Mmmbop...

We'd all be huge fucking liars if we said we always used condoms. If she was on the pill and seemed normal, hey... I just let the bourbon make my decisions.

Can you spell out that increase in lung cancer in solid numbers, say, how many more times out of 100,000 you're likely to get lung cancer than a person not exposed to 2d hand smoke? "Increased" is the sort of word that begs greater explanation.

B&H. You're a gay man?

Before I read your post, I knew he had been smeared by conservatives. I will concede that I didn't know chapter and verse of what he cited to Rush in that letter, but I had that general sense and would have been astonished had it been otherwise. It's not like the Democratic party is lining up to sell out Israel.

Yes, that's what I was trying to say.

Based on what he said about Dingell, I think Victor Davis Hanson is a hack, and so I don't bother. Since he was wrong about Dingell's views about the continued existence of Israel, I don't give much credence to what he might say there about anyone else.