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-   -   Meet your new thread, same as the old thread. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781)

Spanky 11-28-2007 05:43 PM

Iraq - Progress
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
This sounds like real progress: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...201568_pf.html
If this continues, I will have to retract all my statements about Hillary. If Iraq gets a lot more secure she will have a serious race on her hands.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-28-2007 05:46 PM

Sebby got pegged by NFH's grandma
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
http://www.roadkilltshirts.com/images/products/GILF.jpg
Jesus, man. I'm still in my roast beef years. I haven't hit beef jerky territory yet.

Spanky 11-28-2007 05:53 PM

For Spanky
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
This means nothing - perhaps even less than nothing because it's Zogby - but her "inevitable win", according to you, is looking ever less so, primarily because of the kooks on the far-Left:



http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
The Republicans dirt is unknown. All of Hillarys dirt is out there and people are still going to vote for her. There is all sorts of negative stuff about the current crop of candidates that the average Joe is not aware of. Rudy has enough skeletons to form a marching band and for the average american they are still in the closet.

Spanky 11-28-2007 05:57 PM

For Spanky
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
The shocking part of that listing of odds is how far Paul has moved up the chart. Demonstrably better chances than Thompson, Edwards or McCain? Really?
This company should hire me to do the odds.

Spanky 11-28-2007 06:00 PM

On the other hand, maybe he isn't that bright.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
The Bhuttos and their Party hid (in Geneva) over 20 million in Swiss francs gleaned from bribes, money launduring and drug dealing. I don't know how much 20 mill Swiss Francs gets you in Pakistani Rupees but my bet is: a lot. And enough for the central government to buy control of those provinces as well as Bin Laden's head on a big shish kabob.
Her husband was known as Mr. Twenty Percent.

Spanky 11-28-2007 06:04 PM

On the other hand, maybe he isn't that bright.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I agree with you that the Bhuttos are corrupt, though I would have thought their take was more than SFr 20 m. But I certainly don't think that's enough for the central government to buy control of those provinces. Pakistan -- and the British before them -- would pay a lot more for the privilege.
I don't think you can buy the NW Provinces. They are a bunch of crazy Pathans and it isn't safe for any foreigner (and by foreigner I mean a person from any other state in Pakistan - Punjab, Sindh etc. to enter that area.) Somalia has better law enforcement.

greatwhitenorthchick 11-28-2007 06:09 PM

Bless the child of a working man.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Ewww. I don't want to fuck anyone's grandma.

For free.
Good Lord. Do I have to start posting Ben Franklin quotes on every board in this place?

Gattigap 11-28-2007 06:20 PM

For Spanky
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
The Republicans dirt is unknown. All of Hillarys dirt is out there and people are still going to vote for her. There is all sorts of negative stuff about the current crop of candidates that the average Joe is not aware of. Rudy has enough skeletons to form a marching band and for the average american they are still in the closet.
In that event, do you think that Rudy prevails in the primaries? Do the Republicans beat the shit out of him with the skeletons (which I'm surprised they haven't done yet), or do the Democrats get the pleasure?

Spanky 11-28-2007 06:38 PM

For Spanky
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
In that event, do you think that Rudy prevails in the primaries? Do the Republicans beat the shit out of him with the skeletons (which I'm surprised they haven't done yet), or do the Democrats get the pleasure?
I think once the TV ads come out it is a free for all.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 11-28-2007 06:41 PM

Bless the child of a working man.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
Good Lord. Do I have to start posting Ben Franklin quotes on every board in this place?
I think you need to find similar quotes from someone who didn't live in an era when the life expectancy for women was 40 years.

Tyrone Slothrop 11-28-2007 07:42 PM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins
I'm not sure where I ever stated that I "believe" anything in regard to the Board, secret ballot elections or card-check recognition.
I really didn't mean to start a labor-law melee. I brought up the Meyerson column because the point he made re how employee preferences towards their union must be expressed as matter of law -- by secret ballot or otherwise -- seemed responsive in some way to whatever Slave was trying to say. To the extent that Slave professed indignation that a worker's right to a secret ballot might be done away with by the card-check legislation, presumably then he would have a problem with the 9/29 NLRB decision. Except that we know that he wouldn't, because his concern was tactical, and his abiding principle is that unions and Democrats are evil and lazy, and his response would be identify some other purported hypocrisy on the part of The Left somewhere else.

Oliver_Wendell_Ramone 11-28-2007 07:56 PM

http://bojack.org/images/bushpalestine.jpg

Hank Chinaski 11-28-2007 10:47 PM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
his abiding principle is that unions and Democrats are evil and lazy, and his response would be identify some other purported hypocrisy on the part of The Left somewhere else.
My point was that the guy who wrote and, by implication, you, are intellectually lazy. But not evil, although the guy who wrote it might be.

Tyrone Slothrop 11-28-2007 11:04 PM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
My point was that the guy who wrote and, by implication, you, are intellectually lazy. But not evil, although the guy who wrote it might be.
The blogger? Oops, I mean the Washington Post op-ed writer? Who wrote the thing misquoting the NLRB web site? Oops, I mean the thing that described the NLRA accurately?

You should quit while you're behind. With your schtick here, you're the last guy to accuse anyone else of intellectual laziness.

Hank Chinaski 11-28-2007 11:14 PM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The blogger? Oops, I mean the Washington Post op-ed writer? Who wrote the thing misquoting the NLRB web site? Oops, I mean the thing that described the NLRA accurately?

You should quit while you're behind. With your schtick here, you're the last guy to accuse anyone else of intellectual laziness.
ummm, the one person who understands labor law said it was bullshit, and the panels were different and ahhhh, an op-ed is an opinion. and he isn't saying Bush changed the act, he packed the board with hacks. did the board's webpage change under bush?

402-20

SlaveNoMore 11-28-2007 11:37 PM

For Spanky
 
Quote:

Spanky
has enough skeletons to form a marching band and for the average american they are still in the closet.
Grab a baton and join me in front. I'm wearing a fuzzy swe...er, hat.

SlaveNoMore 11-28-2007 11:40 PM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
I really didn't mean to start a labor-law melee. I brought up the Meyerson column because the point he made re how employee preferences towards their union must be expressed as matter of law -- by secret ballot or otherwise -- seemed responsive in some way to whatever Slave was trying to say. To the extent that Slave professed indignation that a worker's right to a secret ballot might be done away with by the card-check legislation, presumably then he would have a problem with the 9/29 NLRB decision. Except that we know that he wouldn't, because his concern was tactical, and his abiding principle is that unions and Democrats are evil and lazy, and his response would be identify some other purported hypocrisy on the part of The Left somewhere else.
I was - perhaps badly - pointing out that a union worker's dues, notwithstanding his affiliation, automatically go to a Dem candidate.

Joining the union, he effectively "pledges" his support of the Dem candidate.

Unlike the VA nonsense, that monetary vote is binding.

SlaveNoMore 11-28-2007 11:41 PM

Quote:

Oliver_Wendell_Ramone
http://bojack.org/images/bushpalestine.jpg
This conference is a fucking embarrassment.

Maybe you should impeach him.

Tyrone Slothrop 11-28-2007 11:55 PM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
the one person who understands labor law said it was bullshit
Your synopsis of aV's posts is considerably less accurate than that op-ed.

Tyrone Slothrop 11-28-2007 11:58 PM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I was - perhaps badly - pointing out that a union worker's dues, notwithstanding his affiliation, automatically go to a Dem candidate.
Parents -- this is what happens if you let your kids read The National Review. Just say no.

LessinSF 11-29-2007 12:14 AM

Sebby got pegged by NFH's grandma
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Jesus, man. I'm still in my roast beef years. I haven't hit beef jerky territory yet.
You would be surprised how good some 46-year olds look when you meet them at a dark bar and have been drinking.

SlaveNoMore 11-29-2007 12:18 AM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
Parents -- this is what happens if you let your kids read The National Review. Just say no.
That Papist rag? Bitch, please.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-29-2007 12:37 AM

Sebby got pegged by NFH's grandma
 
Quote:

Originally posted by LessinSF
You would be surprised how good some 46-year olds look when you meet them at a dark bar and have been drinking.
I'd hit that sober, just because. I dig the Mrs. Robinson thing.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-29-2007 12:42 AM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
That Papist rag? Bitch, please.
I think that magazine is pretty funny. It's also an amazing example of how a clever writer can dance completely around the other side's near logical and near infallible proposition for 3000 words and come up with a counterpoint.

It's a great example of ideologues being their own worst enemies.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-29-2007 12:43 AM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Parents -- this is what happens if you let your kids read The National Review. Just say no.
Indeed. All those millions of rank and file Republican AFL-CIO and Teamsters members would be shocked.

SlaveNoMore 11-29-2007 12:47 AM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
I think that magazine is pretty funny. It's also an amazing example of how a clever writer can dance completely around the other side's near logical and near infallible proposition for 3000 words and come up with a counterpoint.

It's a great example of ideologues being their own worst enemies.
At least it doesn't deny its ideology.

Unlike, say, the Old Grey Whore, WaPo, NBC, ABC, CBS or Google.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-29-2007 01:13 AM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
At least it doesn't deny its ideology.

Unlike, say, the Old Grey Whore, WaPo, NBC, ABC, CBS or Google.
That is true.

The Times is a fucking joke. The Sulzbergers should be ashamed. But then, so should Murdoch for some of the one sided nonsense in the Journal. Oh, wait, neither of them is capable of feeling shame.

Wait till the Dems whack Google with an antitrust suit or start regulating the piss out of the internet. They'll think differently.

Tyrone Slothrop 11-29-2007 07:46 AM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Indeed. All those millions of rank and file Republican AFL-CIO and Teamsters members would be shocked.
  • The U. S. Supreme Court decision in Communication Workers of America v. Beck, 487 U. S. 735 (1988) . . . held that nonunion employees who are required to pay union dues as a condition of employment could not be forced to support union activities, such as political contributions, that are unrelated to workplace representation.

If they don't like it, they don't have to sign up. So what's the problem?

Tyrone Slothrop 11-29-2007 09:46 AM

http://crookedtimber.org/wp-content/...11/badass4.jpg

andViolins 11-29-2007 10:05 AM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
  • The U. S. Supreme Court decision in Communication Workers of America v. Beck, 487 U. S. 735 (1988) . . . held that nonunion employees who are required to pay union dues as a condition of employment could not be forced to support union activities, such as political contributions, that are unrelated to workplace representation.

If they don't like it, they don't have to sign up. So what's the problem?
I don't mean to turn this into a labor law melee either, however in regard to the above statement, some would argue that becoming an "agency fee payer" or "core member" (i.e. - not "joining the union" but still being required to pay the portion of the dues that the union argues is necessary to "service" the contract) is not really a good solution. Most "agency fee payers" still end up paying roughly 92% of the regular union dues. They give up their right to vote at or even attend union meetings. While the union has a duty to fairly represent these non-member employees, a cynical person would argue that the union is not going to devote the same time and energy in representing these "free riders" as opposed to good union members.

In a Right to Work state, employees don't have to join the union or pay these agency fees. In other states, employees have the right to not join the union, but they still pay for it and don't necessarily reap all of the benefits.

aV

Not Bob 11-29-2007 11:31 AM

Caption, please.
 
http://jezebel.com/assets/resources/...iani112907.jpg

Tyrone Slothrop 11-29-2007 12:36 PM

One share, one vote!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins
I don't mean to turn this into a labor law melee either, however in regard to the above statement, some would argue that becoming an "agency fee payer" or "core member" (i.e. - not "joining the union" but still being required to pay the portion of the dues that the union argues is necessary to "service" the contract) is not really a good solution. Most "agency fee payers" still end up paying roughly 92% of the regular union dues. They give up their right to vote at or even attend union meetings. While the union has a duty to fairly represent these non-member employees, a cynical person would argue that the union is not going to devote the same time and energy in representing these "free riders" as opposed to good union members.
Nonetheless, Slave's suggestion that workers who are represented by a union have no choice but to see their dues used to support political candidates with whom they disagree is, in a word, wrong. I happen to know that law, having had the opportunity to work on a related First Amendment case.

ltl/fb 11-29-2007 01:48 PM

More labor stuff
 
I'm hearing a lot about how the WGA is winning over the American public (or whatever) w/r/t the strike thingy. How would this give them any tactical advantage in the negotiations?

Hank Chinaski 11-29-2007 02:02 PM

More labor stuff
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
.......... the WGA is winning over the American public (or whatever) ............
people could not give a shit. maybe they're winning over the LA puiblic?

andViolins 11-29-2007 02:30 PM

More labor stuff
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I'm hearing a lot about how the WGA is winning over the American public (or whatever) w/r/t the strike thingy. How would this give them any tactical advantage in the negotiations?
Because its all about leverage. Simply walking a picket line and posting funny videos on YouTube is probably not enough to get the companies off their bargaining positions. However, if you start throwing in some public support (negative news stories, inquires from advertisers, etc.) about how the companies are being heartless and cruel to the poor writers, then you begin to change the dynamic.

aV

ltl/fb 11-29-2007 03:19 PM

More labor stuff
 
Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins
Because its all about leverage. Simply walking a picket line and posting funny videos on YouTube is probably not enough to get the companies off their bargaining positions. However, if you start throwing in some public support (negative news stories, inquires from advertisers, etc.) about how the companies are being heartless and cruel to the poor writers, then you begin to change the dynamic.

aV
Aside from the issue of advertising in the world of DVR, I don't see where they are going to go, since it's all of the producers. It's not like it's one particular TV show, or one network/film company -- advertisers are going to say, hey, you are mean to your writers; we don't want to do product placement in . . . any . . . movies anymore? And people are going to say "I'm going to stop watching television and movies because producers are mean to writers"?

It would make sense to me if it were a particular portion of the entertainment industry, but given that it's basically all filmed entertainment . . .

I guess that maybe I can see how with e.g. steelworkers striking against GM/Ford/etc., people might stop buying from them, because there are viable alternatives. But there's not nearly enough non-US content at all, let alone non-US content that is in English and appeals to Americans, for there to be any alternative.

patentparanyc 11-29-2007 03:20 PM

More labor stuff
 
Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins
Because its all about leverage. Simply walking a picket line and posting funny videos on YouTube is probably not enough to get the companies off their bargaining positions. However, if you start throwing in some public support (negative news stories, inquires from advertisers, etc.) about how the companies are being heartless and cruel to the poor writers, then you begin to change the dynamic.

aV
The stagehands in TCOTU just settled [they were striking it can be done] Back to Matinee Day Mayhem...aren't golf umbrellas just for that express purpose?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007..._ticket-3.html

This is awesome: Tourist's guide to NYC:

http://ministryoftourismabatement.com/

OMG, how funny re: comment section

Comment from Hungry
Time: November 29, 2007, 8:43 am

""Oh. Look. There’s allegedly a big shiny tree on the other side of that tall building, so I think I will just stand here in the middle of the sidewalk with 34 of my closest friends, blocking the way for everyone else. Then once I’m done I’ll get really nutty and go to Applebee’s or Olive Garden, because there are only 6 of them within a mile of my home in East Nowheresville.""


andViolins 11-29-2007 03:38 PM

More labor stuff
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Aside from the issue of advertising in the world of DVR, I don't see where they are going to go, since it's all of the producers. It's not like it's one particular TV show, or one network/film company -- advertisers are going to say, hey, you are mean to your writers; we don't want to do product placement in . . . any . . . movies anymore? And people are going to say "I'm going to stop watching television and movies because producers are mean to writers"?

It would make sense to me if it were a particular portion of the entertainment industry, but given that it's basically all filmed entertainment . . .

I guess that maybe I can see how with e.g. steelworkers striking against GM/Ford/etc., people might stop buying from them, because there are viable alternatives. But there's not nearly enough non-US content at all, let alone non-US content that is in English and appeals to Americans, for there to be any alternative.
Aren't the studios deathly afraid of what you just wrote? That either people a) will discover other forms of entertainment (such as the internet (perhaps discover is not the right word. Maybe use more?) and/or b) simply not watch as many t.v. shows or movies? The last big writers strike pushed viewing audiences towards cable and pushed the networks towards reality t.v. shows. I don't know where the audiences may end up after this strike. And if the studios (in their polling/tracking) believe that negative press or negative attitudes could affect these numbers, then that will change the strategy.

aV

patentparanyc 11-29-2007 03:46 PM

More labor stuff
 
Quote:

Originally posted by andViolins
Aren't the studios deathly afraid of what you just wrote? That either people a) will discover other forms of entertainment (such as the internet (perhaps discover is not the right word. Maybe use more?) and/or b) simply not watch as many t.v. shows or movies? The last big writers strike pushed viewing audiences towards cable and pushed the networks towards reality t.v. shows. I don't know where the audiences may end up after this strike. And if the studios (in their polling/tracking) believe that negative press or negative attitudes could affect these numbers, then that will change the strategy.

aV
The writers are touching upon a very timely issue. The venue and the medium are changing and they want a piece of it.

Similar to how recording labels are dying......the medium [electronic] which it is being distributed is changing........CDs are becoming more and more obsolete.

Although the writers have a point. They want a cut of the downloads etc.......back the medium changing...it is hard to feel truly sympathetic to them other then to feel dismissive as whiney bs.

sebastian_dangerfield 11-29-2007 03:51 PM

More labor stuff
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I'm hearing a lot about how the WGA is winning over the American public (or whatever) w/r/t the strike thingy. How would this give them any tactical advantage in the negotiations?
I just listened to a writer on NPR explaining that it doesn't, and that the union is ginning up public sentiment to rally its members who may be considering crossing picket lines.


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