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-   -   All Hank, all the time. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=734)

SlaveNoMore 08-18-2006 12:51 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

taxwonk
Given that you've apparently forgotten what this country was founded on and what those boys in Iraq are currently dying to protect, I sincerely doubt you have a clue any more what this case was all about.
A strong Executive Branch? Separation of Powers? A Judiciary that is supposed to use actual law, not a desired results, as the means for rendering decisions?

I know you took it way back in 60's, but perhaps you need to dust off that ConLaw college textbook.

SlaveNoMore 08-18-2006 12:53 PM

Maybe not so uh oh
 
Quote:

Adder
... we also need to pay attention when it turns out not to be.
No doubt. But far, far better to turn out a bunch of false positives to demonstrate the system is working than to let the real one through.

Adder 08-18-2006 12:58 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Even the WaPo says the decision is a joke. And that's saying something.
I don't know, one could read this as a tacit admission:
  • The Justice Department argued that the NSA program is well within Bush's authority as president, but that proving it would require revealing state secrets.

taxwonk 08-18-2006 12:58 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
A strong Executive Branch? Separation of Powers? A Judiciary that is supposed to use actual law, not a desired results, as the means for rendering decisions?

I know you took it way back in 60's, but perhaps you need to dust off that ConLaw college textbook.
Strong Executive Branch, yes. Executive that can disregard the other two branches, no.

Separation of powers? Good, you've spotted the issue; now go research the right answer.

Judiciary that's supposed to use actual law. Go refresh your recollection of the 1st and 4th Amendments, then look up FISA.

You just took the Califironia bar, didn't you? Did Arnold ban the use of any Con Law questions?

Adder 08-18-2006 12:59 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
A strong Executive Branch?
You may want to read what some originalist have to say about this.

futbol fan 08-18-2006 01:16 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
It's friday. What do we talk about:
War in Iraq? Or did we win that already? I haven't been on the boards for a couple of days and might have missed the announcement.

SlaveNoMore 08-18-2006 01:16 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

taxwonk
Judiciary that's supposed to use actual law. Go refresh your recollection of the 1st and 4th Amendments, then look up FISA.
I take it that fear of the Feds were listening was preventing you from calling your spiritual Mufti in Cairo?

Right. I didn't think so.

taxwonk 08-18-2006 01:23 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I take it that fear of the Feds were listening was preventing you from calling your spiritual Mufti in Cairo?

Right. I didn't think so.
No fear of the feds listening in on my calls to my Grandma is what's got me thinking that certain elements in the Republican Party ought to go take a refresher course on what makes America great.

Sidd Finch 08-18-2006 01:26 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ironweed
War in Iraq? Or did we win that already? I haven't been on the boards for a couple of days and might have missed the announcement.

Where have you been? We won that one years ago. "Mission Accomplished", remember?

Now we're busy winning the peace. It's expensive and time-consuming, but Iraq's war revenues are paying for it. And our soldiers think the sweets are great!

SlaveNoMore 08-18-2006 01:28 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

taxwonk
No fear of the feds listening in on my calls to my Grandma is what's got me thinking that certain elements in the Republican Party ought to go take a refresher course on what makes America great.
Does grandma live overseas? Is grandma a suspected terrorist or member of a suspect organization?

futbol fan 08-18-2006 01:36 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Where have you been? We won that one years ago. "Mission Accomplished", remember?

Now we're busy winning the peace. It's expensive and time-consuming, but Iraq's war revenues are paying for it. And our soldiers think the sweets are great!
I must have been thinking of another war. What's the one where we're fighting one or more insular, indigenous guerrilla groups who blend in with and receive support from the generally hostile civilian population? It's the one that's sort of dragging along with no clear or achievable objective in sight, mounting casualities and less and less support among the voting public. I remember something about a helicopter, a rooftop, hearts and minds, but it's all a bit of a blur.

Sidd Finch 08-18-2006 01:38 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Does grandma live overseas? Is grandma a suspected terrorist or member of a suspect organization?

Are those the limits of the wiretapping program? Given the complete lack of oversight, do you have any factual basis for saying that it is? Given Bush's assertion that he can do anything he wants in the terror fight, could the program be expanded from that without question or control?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 08-18-2006 01:42 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Does grandma live overseas? Is grandma a suspected terrorist or member of a suspect organization?
The program wouldn't be very effective if it were targetted at only suspected terrorists.

Indeed, they could do that now, under ordinary criminal search provisions, and certainly under the FISA procedures.

Sidd Finch 08-18-2006 02:11 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
The program wouldn't be very effective if it were targetted at only suspected terrorists.

Indeed, they could do that now, under ordinary criminal search provisions, and certainly under the FISA procedures.
It depends on your definition of "suspected terrorist."

Some appear to believe that it means "Muslim, from a Muslim country, or descended from the above."


eta: How they figure this stuff out from a phone number is a mystery to me. kick-ass software, i suppose.

taxwonk 08-18-2006 02:12 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Does grandma live overseas? Is grandma a suspected terrorist or member of a suspect organization?
Without a warrant, it's nobody's fucking business if she is.

taxwonk 08-18-2006 02:14 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ironweed
I must have been thinking of another war. What's the one where we're fighting one or more insular, indigenous guerrilla groups who blend in with and receive support from the generally hostile civilian population? It's the one that's sort of dragging along with no clear or achievable objective in sight, mounting casualities and less and less support among the voting public. I remember something about a helicopter, a rooftop, hearts and minds, but it's all a bit of a blur.
See, your problem is that you've got the war all mixed up with an Oliver Stone movie.

taxwonk 08-18-2006 02:15 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
It depends on your definition of "suspected terrorist."

Some appear to believe that it means "Muslim, from a Muslim country, or descended from the above."


eta: How they figure this stuff out from a phone number is a mystery to me. kick-ass software, i suppose.
It is beginning to sound like some would define it as "voted for a Democrat."

Hank Chinaski 08-18-2006 02:20 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
No fear of the feds listening in on my calls to my Grandma is what's got me thinking that certain elements in the Republican Party ought to go take a refresher course on what makes America great.
We can fly all around the world drinking scotch, and not worrying about people trying to kill us- and when we get where we're going the people have put in the kind of toilets we're used to and they learned to speak English? that's what America means to me.

taxwonk 08-18-2006 02:24 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
We can fly all around the world drinking scotch, and not worrying about people trying to kill us- and when we get where we're going the people have put in the kind of toilets we're used to and they learned to speak English? that's what America means to me.
I don't doubt that for a minute, Hank.

SlaveNoMore 08-18-2006 02:33 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Sidd Finch
It depends on your definition of "suspected terrorist."

Some appear to believe that it means "Muslim, from a Muslim country, or descended from the above."
Again, until the Jews or Christians start declaring "death to the non-believers" and start slaughtering innocent civilians all over the world, that definition is about as close as it gets.

SlaveNoMore 08-18-2006 02:34 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

taxwonk
Without a warrant, it's nobody's fucking business if she is.
Your concern for "Grandma the Terrorist" over the security of this Nation is duly noted.

taxwonk 08-18-2006 02:41 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Your concern for "Grandma the Terrorist" over the security of this Nation is duly noted.
As is your lack of regard for "Citizen Grandma."

SlaveNoMore 08-18-2006 02:41 PM

About that woman with the "lotion"
 
No wonder they were concerned. Fucking A:

Quote:

self-described peace activist responsible for the diversion of a London-to-Washington flight Wednesday acted bizarrely for hours, made references to al Qaeda and hijack training flights, and was restrained by two passengers after she urinated in the aisle.

Catherine C. Mayo, 59, a Vermont woman who also lives part time in Pakistan, was charged yesterday in federal court with interfering with a flight crew.

United Flight 923 was forced to make an emergency landing at Boston's Logan International Airport under escort by two military jets.

"She's got some very serious mental health problems," said Page Kelley, Mrs. Mayo's attorney, who described her client as "just barely lucid."

According to an affidavit and passenger accounts, Mrs. Mayo began pacing the plane from the front to aft lavatory and asked a flight attendant, "Is this a training flight for United Flight 93?" -- the flight hijacked on September 11, 2001, that crashed into a Pennsylvania farm field.

Mrs. Mayo demanded to speak with an air marshal, saying the contents of her bag would be of interest. Her bag contained a screwdriver, body lotion, several cigarette lighters and a bottle of water. The affidavit did not say how she smuggled the items on board, despite being screened twice at London's Heathrow Airport.

When confronted by the captain, Mrs. Mayo made a reference to bomb assembly, saying, "There are six steps to building some unspecified thing."

"She made reference to being with people associated with two words," the affidavit said. "She stated that she could not say what the two words were because the last time that she had said the two words she had been kicked off a flight in the United Arab Emirates."

The captain ordered her restrained, and the passengers and a flight attendant tackled her and placed her hands in plastic cuffs.

Officials in the United Kingdom and the U.S. are on heightened alert after dozens of British citizens were arrested last week, accused of plotting to smuggle liquid explosives aboard trans-Atlantic flights.

Mrs. Mayo told passengers she was an undercover reporter testing security to see whether she could sneak restricted items on board.

As a columnist for the Daily Times of Pakistan, Mrs. Mayo criticized President Bush -- calling him "a president not elected by the people"-- and the war in Iraq. "The folksongs of the 1960s will never be written again because of President George Bush. He has hampered the liberties of my country in the name of September 11. Songs now can only talk of patriotism they cannot mention peace," she wrote.

Passengers initially assumed the men who restrained Mrs. Mayo were federal air marshals but yesterday said they were passengers recruited by flight attendants who provided them with handcuffs.
"They were asked to be on the alert in case we need you," said Joan Bartko, a passenger who was traveling with her family.

Mrs. Mayo "took down her slacks and started taking down her underwear, and that's when they got her. They were just passengers on the plane who immediately helped," Mrs. Bartko said.
They initally reported the screwdriver. Why did they eliminate that fact from the follow-up reports?

SlaveNoMore 08-18-2006 02:43 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

taxwonk
As is your lack of regard for "Citizen Grandma."
"Citizen Grandma"? Is she in France?

And if so, why should I care if the NSA is listening in?

Sidd Finch 08-18-2006 02:43 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Again, until the Jews or Christians start declaring "death to the non-believers" and start slaughtering innocent civilians all over the world, that definition is about as close as it gets.

Similarly, "suspected Mafia member" should be the same as "Italian, or of Italian descent." At least until the Mafia opens to books to Koreans and Russians.

Sidd Finch 08-18-2006 02:44 PM

About that woman with the "lotion"
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
No wonder they were concerned. Fucking A:



They initally reported the screwdriver. Why did they eliminate that fact from the follow-up reports?

The also initially reported notes about al Qaeda.

Were the initial reports accurate?

Sidd Finch 08-18-2006 02:45 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
It is beginning to sound like some would define it as "voted for a Democrat."

Let's not overstate it. Some Rs are willing to see Lieberman voters merely as terrorist-sympathizers.

SlaveNoMore 08-18-2006 03:00 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Sidd Finch
Similarly, "suspected Mafia member" should be the same as "Italian, or of Italian descent." At least until the Mafia opens to books to Koreans and Russians.
This doesn't bother me - and my mom's maiden name is practically Genovese.

Sidd Finch 08-18-2006 03:01 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
This doesn't bother me - and my mom's maiden name is practically Genovese.
Yes, but you've always been a bit of a whack-job.

SlaveNoMore 08-18-2006 03:01 PM

About that woman with the "lotion"
 
Quote:

Sidd Finch
The also initially reported notes about al Qaeda.
"She made reference to being with people associated with two words," the affidavit said. "She stated that she could not say what the two words were because the last time that she had said the two words she had been kicked off a flight in the United Arab Emirates."

Quote:

Were the initial reports accurate?
Pretty much, yep.

Sidd Finch 08-18-2006 03:06 PM

About that woman with the "lotion"
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
"She made reference to being with people associated with two words," the affidavit said. "She stated that she could not say what the two words were because the last time that she had said the two words she had been kicked off a flight in the United Arab Emirates."



Pretty much, yep.

My question was, in fact, a question -- not an assertion about the initial reports. Their accuracy is in question, since initially they were talking about notes and later it was just rantings. Also the intial reports didn't mention her pissing on the plane, which I might mention if I were reporting on an incident. The lack of any further mention of the screwdriver makes me wonder.

Penske_Account 08-18-2006 03:09 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
This doesn't bother me - and my mom's maiden name is practically Genovese.
2. Mine is Gambino.

Penske_Account 08-18-2006 03:10 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ironweed
War in Iraq? Or did we win that already? I haven't been on the boards for a couple of days and might have missed the announcement.

Hmm, don't know, I don't follow team sports.

Any word on the Rove indictment?

Penske_Account 08-18-2006 03:12 PM

Hi!
 
Unlike most days when I respond without reading for content, today I am just not reading at all.

regards,

P

Hank Chinaski 08-18-2006 03:14 PM

Hi!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Unlike most days when I respond without reading for content, today I am just not reading at all.

regards,

P
your loss. in honor of DreamCruise weekend I had posted an epic paen to that which makes America great.

futbol fan 08-18-2006 03:16 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Again, until the Jews or Christians start declaring "death to the non-believers" and start slaughtering innocent civilians all over the world, that definition is about as close as it gets.
When you're talking about Christians, death to unbelievers, slaughtering innocents, etc., you might want to avoid using the phrase "until they start" - it's kind of disrespectful and makes it sound like Christians have just been sitting around singing Kumbaya instead of going out, kicking ass and taking names. We've got a pretty solid record on that sort of stuff going back centuries, including eight Crusades, an Inquistion and the good ol' Hundred Years War, just to name some of the highlights.

I feel a bit slighted when I can just walk through airport security without someone asking me if I'm carrying thumbscrews, heretics' forks or intending to start an auto de fe on the plane. Don't you motherfuckers know where I come from?

Penske_Account 08-18-2006 03:18 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ironweed
When you're talking about Christians, death to unbelievers, slaughtering innocents, etc., you might want to avoid using the phrase "until they start" - it's kind of disrespectful and makes it sound like Christians have just been sitting around singing Kumbaya instead of going out, kicking ass and taking names. We've got a pretty solid record on that sort of stuff going back centuries, including eight Crusades, an Inquistion and the good ol' Hundred Years War, just to name some of the highlights.

I feel a bit slighted when I can just walk through airport security without someone asking me if I'm carrying thumbscrews, heretics' forks or intending to start an auto de fe on the plane. Don't you motherfuckers know where I come from?
Statute of limitations?

Penske_Account 08-18-2006 03:19 PM

Hi!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
your loss. in honor of DreamCruise weekend I had posted an epic paen to that which makes America great.

I can see it, your Paigow homage avatar, yes?

SlaveNoMore 08-18-2006 03:23 PM

Hmm
 
Quote:

ironweed
When you're talking about Christians, death to unbelievers, slaughtering innocents, etc., you might want to avoid using the phrase "until they start" - it's kind of disrespectful and makes it sound like Christians have just been sitting around singing Kumbaya instead of going out, kicking ass and taking names. We've got a pretty solid record on that sort of stuff going back centuries, including eight Crusades, an Inquistion and the good ol' Hundred Years War, just to name some of the highlights.
Let's see, 6 years ago, the Simpsons used to funny. REM used to put out great records. I Think Ireland even used to qualify every now and again for the World Cup.

Note the common theme - "Used to"

Quote:

I feel a bit slighted when I can just walk through airport security without someone asking me if I'm carrying thumbscrews, heretics' forks or intending to start an auto de fe on the plane. Don't you motherfuckers know where I come from?
Allah akbar

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 08-18-2006 03:25 PM

Uh Oh!!!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
My GF has chosen to live here. I'm a captive audience.
SlaveNoMore, indeed.


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