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Spanky 03-04-2006 02:00 PM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Ah. My bad. I thought you were just raising me when you really had nothing in your hand. You can understand the source of my mistake.
You are confusing me with Less. When am I going to get the chance to get my money back from my brother?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 03-04-2006 02:25 PM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch

Now, you want to answer my question?
Sure. Which one?

If it's the first amendment one, about minimum speech:

1) Constitutional limitations are different from statutory/regulatory limitations. We're talking policy decisions to be made, not ones we've committed to continuing in the form of a constitution. I grant that it is permissible under our federalist system to have a federal law that states can make more strict. And you would have to grant it is permissible to have a federal law tht states cannot make more strict. All I've posited that if you have both of those possible policy outcomes, why not the third--federal laws that states can make less strict?

2) When enacted, the first amendment did not apply to the states. It was subsequently incorporated, based on further constitutional amendment. If you can get a constitutional amendment through that specifies that the federal government may enact minimum, but not maximum health and safety standards, go ahead.

taxwonk 03-04-2006 04:17 PM

Time to Boycott Dominos (again)?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
I belive you need to target the guilty directly. You shouldn't attack innocent people to get at the guilty. It is like murdering innocent American civilians to get at the US government. I also think the direct route is more effecitve, in addition to being more ethical.
But a boycott does punish the guilty. The people of South Dakota elected the yahoos who enacted the abortion bill and the yahoo king of a governor who signed the bill. They should be made to suffer for their evil.

Sidd Finch 03-04-2006 05:27 PM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Sure. Which one?

The one about whether you would view this federal action so favorably if the feds were taking the strictest state food safety standards and applying them nationwide.

Sidd Finch 03-04-2006 05:29 PM

What, Me Worry?
 
Looks like the Bush admin was as competent in determining who to put in Gitmo as in, well, everything.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060304/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Untrammeled executive power is good! There is never any potential for mistake or abuse! "Checks and balances" is so 1700s!

Glad I lost that Casio watch....

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 03-04-2006 08:23 PM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
The one about whether you would view this federal action so favorably if the feds were taking the strictest state food safety standards and applying them nationwide.
I don't recall saying I viewed it favorably other than on the basis that it created nationwide unformity in labeling, which surely reduces the costs of national food distributors. That benefit would exist regardles of the level of standard applied.

Spanky 03-05-2006 05:05 AM

Time to Boycott Dominos (again)?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
But a boycott does punish the guilty. The people of South Dakota elected the yahoos who enacted the abortion bill and the yahoo king of a governor who signed the bill. They should be made to suffer for their evil.
Not all the people voted for these yahoos. Many are as responsible for these officials as you are responsible for Tom Delay and George W. Bush. And the companys we were talking about just have their headquarters there. They have people working for them all over the country. You need to go directly after the politicians.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-05-2006 02:27 PM

Time to Boycott Dominos (again)?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Not all the people voted for these yahoos. Many are as responsible for these officials as you are responsible for Tom Delay and George W. Bush. And the companys we were talking about just have their headquarters there. They have people working for them all over the country. You need to go directly after the politicians.
I disagree. The only way to get decent folks elected is to kick moderates in the ass and force them to get off their asses and go to the polls and outvote these virulent minorities of white trash vermin who presently wag the dog.

Hank Chinaski 03-05-2006 03:15 PM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I don't recall saying I viewed it favorably other than on the basis that it created nationwide unformity in labeling, which surely reduces the costs of national food distributors. That benefit would exist regardles of the level of standard applied.
isn't the food industry's reaction already to use a uniform label? I think they tend to lump all warnings on all packaging- assuming 1) no one reads it- so big deal and 2) it's cheaper to have one label, not so much for printing but for handling and ditribution.

It's like the bottle deposit notices. The best thing would be that only deposit states have a notice on their bevarage containers, but all containers in all states have the same label. Results in the Kramers and Newmans of the world bringing in out-of-state empties.*



*I worked in a beer store in college- out of state returns are a real problem.

andViolins 03-05-2006 04:02 PM

Time to Boycott Dominos (again)?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
Don't know if this has come up already, but now anyone who is pro-choice is now supposed to boycott Citibank, Gateway, Iams pet food and South Dakota tourism, all because of the recent SD bill. I don't buy Iams, don't have a Gateway computer, and am not planning a trip to Mount Rushmore, so I'm ok there, but I do bank at Citibank because it's private banking through my firm, and would be a pain in the ass to switch, and I probably would not get the same deal. Sometimes these boycotts do require some thought - especially if you wonder whether it will really have any effect.
Kinda late to the party on this one, but why is IAMS on this list? IAMS is based in Dayton, Ohio and the company itself was sold to P&G (Cincinnati) in 1999. What is the South Dakota connection?

aV

taxwonk 03-05-2006 04:40 PM

Time to Boycott Dominos (again)?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Not all the people voted for these yahoos. Many are as responsible for these officials as you are responsible for Tom Delay and George W. Bush. And the companys we were talking about just have their headquarters there. They have people working for them all over the country. You need to go directly after the politicians.
The only way to successfully go after polticians outside of your own jurisdiction is to hurt the people who put them in office. If you make it too costly for the people in South Dakota to vote for the people they put in office, they will elect other representatives. At least that's the theory, And it's better than buying smear ads.

sgtclub 03-06-2006 11:01 AM

I Bet The Drop in Ear Piercings is Higher
 
  • For all the passions they generate, laws that require minors to notify their parents or get permission to have an abortion do not appear to have produced the sharp drop in teenage abortion rates that some advocates hoped for, an analysis by The New York Times shows.

    The analysis, which looked at six states that introduced parental involvement laws in the last decade and is believed to be the first study to include data from years after 1999, found instead a scattering of divergent trends.

    For instance, in Tennessee, the abortion rate went down when a federal court suspended a parental consent requirement, then rose when the law went back into effect. In Texas, the rate fell after a notification law went into effect, but not as fast as it did in the years before the law. In Virginia, the rate barely moved when the state introduced a notification law in 1998, but fell after the requirement was changed to parental consent in 2003.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/06/na...gewanted=print

sgtclub 03-06-2006 11:04 AM

  • WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court ruled unanimously Monday that colleges that accept federal money must allow military recruiters on campus, despite university objections to the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays.

    Justices rejected a free-speech challenge from law schools and their professors who claimed they should not be forced to associate with military recruiters or promote their campus appearances.

    Chief Justice John Roberts, writing for the court, said that the campus visits are an effective military recruiting tool.

    "A military recruiter's mere presence on campus does not violate a law school's right to associate, regardless of how repugnant the law school considers the recruiter's message," he wrote.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-06-2006 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub [list] WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Supreme Court ruled unanimously Monday that colleges that accept federal money must allow military recruiters on campus, despite university objections to the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" policy on gays.

Justices rejected a free-speech challenge from law schools and their professors who claimed they should not be forced to associate with military recruiters or promote their campus appearances.

Chief Justice John Roberts, writing for the court, said that the campus visits are an effective military recruiting tool.

"A military recruiter's mere presence on campus does not violate a law school's right to associate, regardless of how repugnant the law school considers the recruiter's message," he wrote.[list]
Who cares? Only the clinically insane will sign up nowadays anyway. Even those in abject poverty know welfare beats jacking off in a tent in 112 degree heat and risking having your cap blasted into a pile of mush.

sgtclub 03-06-2006 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Who cares? Only the clinically insane will sign up nowadays anyway. Even those in abject poverty know welfare beats jacking off in a tent in 112 degree heat and risking having your cap blasted into a pile of mush.
Seems to me to be a push, but you get paid for doing the time in the ME.

baltassoc 03-06-2006 11:18 AM

You have to give the Administration credit for their timing: I'm just too tired of all the crap to do more than note the fact that many the detainees at Guantanamo are being held on the scantest of evidence:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/06/in...rtner=homepage

ETA: I see Sidd already posted something, and nobody else can get worked up about it either.

Sidd Finch 03-06-2006 11:26 AM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I don't recall saying I viewed it favorably other than on the basis that it created nationwide unformity in labeling, which surely reduces the costs of national food distributors. That benefit would exist regardles of the level of standard applied.
If that's the concern, it's pretty easy for national food distributors to accomodate it -- just apply the most restrictive/comprehensive standard. States don't prohibit you from doing more than the regs require, and it's not like some states say you must disclose x, while others say that you must not.

Shape Shifter 03-06-2006 03:03 PM

Time to Boycott Dominos (again)?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
I belive you need to target the guilty directly. You shouldn't attack innocent people to get at the guilty. It is like murdering innocent American civilians to get at the US government. I also think the direct route is more effecitve, in addition to being more ethical.
What are your views on Iraq?

baltassoc 03-06-2006 03:09 PM

Time to Boycott Dominos (again)?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
What are your views on Iraq?
He said "target" not "hit." Sometimes collateral damage is a necessary cost.

Gattigap 03-06-2006 06:36 PM

18 Months
 
Barry Posen argues that the US is more a magnet for insurgents than a mechanism for stability in Iraq, and the goal should be to establish a political and military stalemate in Iraq through a variety of internal and external diplomatic and military threats, and scale down our presence over 18 months.

Don't know if I agree with everything he says here, but it does seem to have the advantage of being thought out.

sgtclub 03-06-2006 07:20 PM

FUCK!
 
  • WASHINGTON (AP) -- Treasury Secretary John Snow notified Congress on Monday that the administration has now taken "all prudent and legal actions," including tapping certain government retirement funds, to keep from hitting the $8.2 trillion national debt limit.

    In a letter to Congress, Snow urged lawmakers to pass a new debt ceiling immediately to avoid the nation's first-ever default on its obligations.

    "I know that you share the president's and my commitment to maintaining the full faith and credit of the U.S. government," Snow said in his letter to leaders in the House and Senate.

    Treasury officials, briefing congressional aides last week, said that the government will run out of maneuvering room to keep from exceeding the current limit sometime during the week of March 20.

ltl/fb 03-06-2006 07:28 PM

FUCK!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
  • WASHINGTON (AP) -- Treasury Secretary John Snow notified Congress on Monday that the administration has now taken "all prudent and legal actions," including tapping certain government retirement funds, to keep from hitting the $8.2 trillion national debt limit.

    In a letter to Congress, Snow urged lawmakers to pass a new debt ceiling immediately to avoid the nation's first-ever default on its obligations.

    "I know that you share the president's and my commitment to maintaining the full faith and credit of the U.S. government," Snow said in his letter to leaders in the House and Senate.

    Treasury officials, briefing congressional aides last week, said that the government will run out of maneuvering room to keep from exceeding the current limit sometime during the week of March 20.

Whaddaya think they should do?

sebastian_dangerfield 03-06-2006 07:40 PM

FUCK!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Whaddaya think they should do?
Go into workout. Elect Trump President. He's good with workouts.

notcasesensitive 03-06-2006 07:54 PM

FUCK!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Go into workout. Elect Trump President. He's good with workouts.
He is good at creating workouts and he is good at getting himself out of them without any moentary exposure for the Trumpster and (the clincher) it would be a lot of fun to watch him in a pissing match with other world leaders who in his mind have slighted him in some way. Fun right up until the point that somebody pulls out the nukes or biological weapons, that is.

I'd love to see Trump and Saddam in a cage match.

Gattigap 03-06-2006 08:03 PM

FUCK!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Go into workout. Elect Trump President. He's good with workouts.
True, but Trump is a fan of the negotiating school of thought that "if I owe the bank One Hundred Thousand Dollars, I'm fucked. If I owe the bank One Hundred Million Dollars, the bank is fucked."

Nice for screwing the other side in RE deals, but now I'm visualizing The Donald screaming across the table at Kim Jong Il saying "You think I'm joking? You pantywaist? I'll take my fucking economy DOWN, and then let's see where you are! Your population will starve without the trade the USA gives you, you pieceofshit! You're Fired!"

Not so good.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 03-06-2006 09:04 PM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
If that's the concern, it's pretty easy for national food distributors to accomodate it -- just apply the most restrictive/comprehensive standard. States don't prohibit you from doing more than the regs require, and it's not like some states say you must disclose x, while others say that you must not.
So you should let one state determine the rule for all the rest?

Gattigap 03-06-2006 09:06 PM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
So you should let one state determine the rule for all the rest?
Isn't this effectively what happens already with CA emissions standards for cars?

sgtclub 03-06-2006 09:33 PM

FUCK!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Whaddaya think they should do?
They really have no choice, but it pisses me off every time they do this and further pisses me off that the actually have the nerve to call it a ceiling. It's a fucking speed bump.

sebastian_dangerfield 03-06-2006 09:46 PM

FUCK!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by notcasesensitive
He is good at creating workouts and he is good at getting himself out of them without any moentary exposure for the Trumpster and (the clincher) it would be a lot of fun to watch him in a pissing match with other world leaders who in his mind have slighted him in some way. Fun right up until the point that somebody pulls out the nukes or biological weapons, that is.

I'd love to see Trump and Saddam in a cage match.
Well, as Gatti said below, our economy going sideways tanks the whole damn planet. So we are the permanent Trump - or at least the World's Donald for the next 100 years. That's the comedy of all the hand wringing over our debt. Nobody can do anything rash, on either side of the equation, because any domino falling brings down the whole place. We just keep changing the measures and fundamentals of what's acceptable forever.

Nobody whips out the bomb over economic matters except us.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 03-06-2006 10:05 PM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Isn't this effectively what happens already with CA emissions standards for cars?
In part, yes, but not entirely. I think most (or all) manufacturers have given up on having "California emissions", but there are also fleet requirements that result in certain models either not being sold in California or not being sold elsewhere.

So I ask, is having California's ARB determine nationwide emissions requirements consistent with our federalist system? States' rights indeed!

Tyrone Slothrop 03-06-2006 10:33 PM

FUCK!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
They really have no choice, but it pisses me off every time they do this and further pisses me off that the actually have the nerve to call it a ceiling. It's a fucking speed bump.
You wonder why they don't kick it up like twice as high, take the heat for a few days, and then stop worrying about for a long time.

notcasesensitive 03-06-2006 10:36 PM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
In part, yes, but not entirely. I think most (or all) manufacturers have given up on having "California emissions", but there are also fleet requirements that result in certain models either not being sold in California or not being sold elsewhere.

So I ask, is having California's ARB determine nationwide emissions requirements consistent with our federalist system? States' rights indeed!
Audi TT. Not sold in CA. Because it makes total sense to produce a convertible and then fail to meet emissions in one of the 2 biggest convertible sales states in the US. Thankfully there are tons of hipsters in the rust belt who will dole out $40k plus for a toy car for the 30-90 days of convertible weather up there per year.

sgtclub 03-07-2006 11:02 AM

Say Good Bye to Lawtalkers
 
New NJ Bill belw - Not sure to what extent NJ has jurisdiction:
  • 1. As used in this act:

    "Information content provider" means any person or entity that is responsible, in whole or in part, for the creation or development of information provided through the Internet or any other interactive computer service.

    "Interactive computer service" means any information system, service, or access software provider that provides or enables computer access by multiple users to a computer server, including specifically a service or system that provides service to the Internet.

    "Internet" means the international computer network of both federal and non-federal interoperable packet switched data networks.

    "Internet service provider" or "provider" means any person, business or organization qualified to do business in this State that provides individuals, corporations, or other entities with the ability to connect to the Internet through equipment that is located in this State.

    "Operator" means any person, business or organization qualified to do business in this State that operates an interactive computer service.



    2. The operator of any interactive computer service or an Internet service provider shall establish, maintain and enforce a policy to require any information content provider who posts written messages on a public forum website either to be identified by a legal name and address, or to register a legal name and address with the operator of the interactive computer service or the Internet service provider through which the information content provider gains access to the interactive computer service or Internet, as appropriate.

    3. An operator of an interactive computer service or an Internet service provider shall establish and maintain reasonable procedures to enable any person to request and obtain disclosure of the legal name and address of an information content provider who posts false or defamatory information about the person on a public forum website.

    4. Any person who is damaged by false or defamatory written messages that originate from an information content provider who posts such messages on a public forum website may file suit in Superior Court against an operator or provider that fails to establish, maintain and enforce the policy required pursuant to section 2 of P.L. , c. (C.) (pending before the Legislature as this bill), and may recover compensatory and punitive damages and the cost of the suit, including a reasonable attorney's fee, cost of investigation and litigation from such operator or provider.



    5. This act shall take effect on the 90th day following enactment.

baltassoc 03-07-2006 11:09 AM

Say Good Bye to Lawtalkers
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
New NJ Bill belw - Not sure to what extent NJ has jurisdiction:
  • 1. As used in this act:

    "Information content provider" means any person or entity that is responsible, in whole or in part, for the creation or development of information provided through the Internet or any other interactive computer service.

    "Interactive computer service" means any information system, service, or access software provider that provides or enables computer access by multiple users to a computer server, including specifically a service or system that provides service to the Internet.

    "Internet" means the international computer network of both federal and non-federal interoperable packet switched data networks.

    "Internet service provider" or "provider" means any person, business or organization qualified to do business in this State that provides individuals, corporations, or other entities with the ability to connect to the Internet through equipment that is located in this State.

    "Operator" means any person, business or organization qualified to do business in this State that operates an interactive computer service.



    2. The operator of any interactive computer service or an Internet service provider shall establish, maintain and enforce a policy to require any information content provider who posts written messages on a public forum website either to be identified by a legal name and address, or to register a legal name and address with the operator of the interactive computer service or the Internet service provider through which the information content provider gains access to the interactive computer service or Internet, as appropriate.

    3. An operator of an interactive computer service or an Internet service provider shall establish and maintain reasonable procedures to enable any person to request and obtain disclosure of the legal name and address of an information content provider who posts false or defamatory information about the person on a public forum website.

    4. Any person who is damaged by false or defamatory written messages that originate from an information content provider who posts such messages on a public forum website may file suit in Superior Court against an operator or provider that fails to establish, maintain and enforce the policy required pursuant to section 2 of P.L. , c. (C.) (pending before the Legislature as this bill), and may recover compensatory and punitive damages and the cost of the suit, including a reasonable attorney's fee, cost of investigation and litigation from such operator or provider.



    5. This act shall take effect on the 90th day following enactment.

Do you have a cite to a website, or at least a bill number?

Any idea on where this is in the process?

sgtclub 03-07-2006 11:16 AM

Say Good Bye to Lawtalkers
 
Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
Do you have a cite to a website, or at least a bill number?

Any idea on where this is in the process?
Assembly 1327 - http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bi...00/1327_I1.HTM

Replaced_Texan 03-07-2006 11:18 AM

Say Good Bye to Lawtalkers
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Assembly 1327 - http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bi...00/1327_I1.HTM
I imagine there will be a lot of anonymous messages about Peter Biondi in the coming months.

baltassoc 03-07-2006 11:22 AM

Say Good Bye to Lawtalkers
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Assembly 1327 - http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2006/Bi...00/1327_I1.HTM
Thank you. Lots of clients will be interested. Lots of clients will be checking to see if they are qualified to do business in NJ and/or will be yanking out equipment if this bill passes.

I'm surprised it's not called the "NJ Don't Need No Stinkin' Technology Companies Act of 2006"

dtb 03-07-2006 11:25 AM

Say Good Bye to Lawtalkers
 
Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
I'm surprised it's not called the "NJ Don't Need No Stinkin' Technology Companies Act of 2006"
That's the subtitle.

Sidd Finch 03-07-2006 11:29 AM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
So you should let one state determine the rule for all the rest?
No. You should let states make determinations on rules above certain minimum standards of safety, and if national manufacturers feel that the cost of complying with differing labelling standards is too high, they can choose to label according to the most stringent requirements.

But the real reason behind the push to federalize these rules is not the cost of complying with different regulatory schemes. It's a desire to reduce regulations, period. They are not interested in uniformity, they are interested in lowering the bar.

Sidd Finch 03-07-2006 11:31 AM

More Republicans for states' rights
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
In part, yes, but not entirely. I think most (or all) manufacturers have given up on having "California emissions", but there are also fleet requirements that result in certain models either not being sold in California or not being sold elsewhere.

So I ask, is having California's ARB determine nationwide emissions requirements consistent with our federalist system? States' rights indeed!
If South Dakota passed stricter requirements than California, do you think manufacturers would change their fleets nationwide?

California has market power; that's why businesses respond. Those who find it too expensive are free not to sell here, or not to sell all models here (as, you point out, some do).


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