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-   -   Offering constructive criticism to the social cripples in our midst since early 2005. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=681)

Tyrone Slothrop 07-19-2005 08:49 PM

breaking news: the doomsday clock ticks one minute closer to the apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I believe the flag burning amendment was brought up only after a similar statute had been ruled down.
So perhaps they have a different view about the constitutionality than the Supreme Court does. It doesn't mean they don't have a view. And with Senate rules, there is no appeal to the Supreme Court.

Penske_Account 07-19-2005 08:53 PM

Shite of Get off the Pot time
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Make my prediction about what? SCOTUS? Why? We'll know in two hours. I'm more interested in the Rove Scandal.

Unless he nominates something with four legs or announces he's a screaming queen McGreevy-style, nothing Bush says tonight is going to kill the Rove Debacle. I'm staying on message, Penske. You fritter around debating justices. I'm still waiting for Fitz to potentially drop the big one.

I don't predict. I comment.
You suck. Social decorum dictates you play along. You liberals have no manners.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 07-19-2005 08:55 PM

BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.......
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
http://www.drudgereport.com/siren.gif Drudge is reporting John C. Roberts. http://www.drudgereport.com/siren.gif

More to follow...............
I'll bet he's in D.C.

But is this to replace O'Connor or Rehnquist? And is it sourced from Novak again?

Penske_Account 07-19-2005 08:55 PM

BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.......
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
http://www.drudgereport.com/siren.gif Drudge is reporting John C. Roberts. http://www.drudgereport.com/siren.gif

More to follow...............
Born 1955 in Buffalo, N.Y. Graduate of Harvard College and Law School. Clerked for Justice Rehnquist when he was an associate justice. Was special assistant to the attorney general from 1981 to 1982, associate counsel to the Reagan White House from 1982 to 1986, and principal deputy solicitor general from 1989 to 1993. Tapped by President George H.W. Bush in 1992 for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia, often regarded as a stepping stone to the high court, but the nomination stalled because of the pending election, and he subsequently joined law firm Hogan & Hartson. In his government and private roles, he argued numerous cases before the Supreme Court. Senate Democrats initially filibustered his renomination to the D.C. Circuit Court but he was confirmed in 2003. He is associated with the push by the Reagan and first Bush administrations to overturn or limit Roe v. Wade.

If this is true, it looks like the liberals will lose here. Big time.

Penske_Account 07-19-2005 08:58 PM

Roe v Wade, RIP
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I'll bet he's in D.C.

But is this to replace O'Connor or Rehnquist? And is it sourced from Novak again?

http://www.drudgereport.com/siren.gif

John C. Roberts has been confirmed as the nominee.

http://www.drudgereport.com/siren.gif

SlaveNoMore 07-19-2005 09:00 PM

More on Filibusters
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
To put it in your terms, the Republican leadership doesn't have the balls to simply change the rules. That's why we have this charade about whether the old rule is unconstitutional.
If and when Leahy, Boxer et. al. try to filibuster this Roberts nominations, let us see about those balls, shall we?

Sexual Harassment Panda 07-19-2005 09:00 PM

Shite of Get off the Pot time
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
With two hours to go before the most historic SCOTUS appointment of the century, it is time to lay down your predictions for posterity. You either have the balls to go on record or not.
I concur. It's Brown, for so many reasons:

1. It will piss off liberals, which Bush loves to do. He's never outgrown that kind of stuff.
2. It will please the American Taliban and their mullahs Dobson, Robertson, etc.
3. It will divert attention from Plamegate and get the traitorous scumbag Karl Rove off the hook.
4. It will allow Bush to one-up his dad, which he also can't keep himself from doing - "Oh, you appointed the first black? Big deal, Pops - how about the first black woman! Hah! "

Sexual Harassment Panda 07-19-2005 09:02 PM

BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.......
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
http://www.drudgereport.com/siren.gif Drudge is reporting John C. Roberts. http://www.drudgereport.com/siren.gif

More to follow...............
C'mon. It's Drudge. Deep in your heart, you know he's wrong. Again.

eta: OTOH, CNN is confirming. Stopped clocks and all that.

SlaveNoMore 07-19-2005 09:02 PM

Shite of Get off the Pot time
 
Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
I'm still waiting for Fitz to potentially drop the big one.
That some other CIA spooks were the initial leak to Miller. Sure, why not.

Tyrone Slothrop 07-19-2005 09:03 PM

If Murray Waas's sources are right, Karl Rove could be in trouble for failing to tell the truth to the FBI.

SlaveNoMore 07-19-2005 09:03 PM

BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.......
 
Quote:

Sexual Harassment Panda
C'mon. It's Drudge. Deep in your heart, you know he's wrong. Again.
ABC and CNN calling the same thing.

If it was CBS, I might agree with you for once.

sgtclub 07-19-2005 09:03 PM

breaking news: the doomsday clock ticks one minute closer to the apocalypse
 
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Why would the executive challenge a confirmation of its candidate?

And if it's on legislation, it has a veto. [quote]

Executive could challenge if nominee wasn't getting up or down vote by full senate.

Quote:

And, if you're saying the filibuster is unconstitutional, why is the committee structure generally not also unconstitutional, since a minority can block the majority?
Because the CON requires the advise and consent of the "Senate" not a committee thereof. Ty takes the view that the Senate can make it's own rules governing how it gives or does not give it's consent. I question the Constiutionality of that. A committee structure in general does not raise similar concerns because the Senate does not have a Constitutional obligation to pass laws.

Penske_Account 07-19-2005 09:06 PM

BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.......
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
ABC and CNN calling the same thing.

If it was CBS, I might agree with you for once.
I called it first on this board. It is a great pick. A win for Bush's America. He came through on his promise.

Now it's GAME ON to take this battle to the Dimwits.

SlaveNoMore 07-19-2005 09:06 PM

Shite of Get off the Pot time
 
Quote:

Sexual Harassment Panda
I concur. It's Brown, for so many reasons:

1. It will piss off liberals, which Bush loves to do. He's never outgrown that kind of stuff.
2. It will please the American Taliban and their mullahs Dobson, Robertson, etc.
3. It will divert attention from Plamegate and get the traitorous scumbag Karl Rove off the hook.
4. It will allow Bush to one-up his dad, which he also can't keep himself from doing - "Oh, you appointed the first black? Big deal, Pops - how about the first black woman! Hah! "
1. Are you right about anything?
2. Ever?
3. Seriously. Ever?
4. I hear Canada is lovely in Summer.

Sidd Finch 07-19-2005 09:07 PM

Restoring honor and dignity to the White House!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
I think we should expect that a CIA employee will refrain from using her husband in a conspiratorial partisan tinged plot to treasonously damage the Nation's war effourt and national defence. The correct response would have been to covertly liquidate the two of them, but unfortunately, the demo led Church Commission emasculated our nation's ability to effectively deal with such turncoats.


Accusing someone who served this country as a covert CIA operative of "treason" is outrageous even for a third-rate troll like you, Penske.

Penske_Account 07-19-2005 09:07 PM

Shite of Get off the Pot time
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
1. Are you right about anything?
2. Ever?
3. Seriously. Ever?
4. I hear Canada is lovely in Summer.

Never.

Sidd Finch 07-19-2005 09:08 PM

breaking news: the doomsday clock ticks one minute closer to the apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
A circuit court of appeals' understanding is that every decision it makes is constitutional. The fact that the Supreme Court sometimes disagrees does not mean that the circuit court was ignoring the Constitution. And here, the Senate is the body that construes its own rules, not a court.

You mean sometimes the USSC actually considers what the lower courts have said on an issue as relevant to the question of what the Constitution means?

No, say it ain't so.

Sexual Harassment Panda 07-19-2005 09:09 PM

breaking news: the doomsday clock ticks one minute closer to the apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Because the CON requires the advise and consent of the "Senate" not a committee thereof. Ty takes the view that the Senate can make it's own rules governing how it gives or does not give it's consent. I question the Constiutionality of that.
Why? The Constitution also says "Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings,...".

Sidd Finch 07-19-2005 09:10 PM

CIAdate.com
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
If she gave up being CIA while petting, I'd hate to see what secrets she'd give up under duress.

Spoken like a man who knows war. Who knows front-line action. Who knows what it's like.

Have some respect for the people who allow you to live your cushy white-collar life.

Sexual Harassment Panda 07-19-2005 09:11 PM

Shite of Get off the Pot time
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
1. Are you right about anything?
2. Ever?
3. Seriously. Ever?
4. I hear Canada is lovely in Summer.
How'd that Luttig pick work out?

Hmm, not so good. And your second pick? Estrada?

Oh well.

Sidd Finch 07-19-2005 09:13 PM

CIAdate.com
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Wilson has a security clearance, or did at the time, so she could tell him.

Please. Facts are not a desirable addition to this debate. He's a traitor, she's a traitor, and Saddam had the Bomb.

sgtclub 07-19-2005 09:13 PM

Did He Consult?
 
I've read recently that the Dems, at least important ones, have been happy with Bush's level of consultation. Those DEMs include Lieberman, Byrd and Lehee. So that leads me to believe that either this nomination will sail through or Bush screwed them.

Sexual Harassment Panda 07-19-2005 09:14 PM

Shite of Get off the Pot time
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
Never.
You did as well as Slave did.

sgtclub 07-19-2005 09:15 PM

breaking news: the doomsday clock ticks one minute closer to the apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Why? The Constitution also says "Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings,...".
That doesn't get me there.

Sexual Harassment Panda 07-19-2005 09:16 PM

Did He Consult?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I've read recently that the Dems, at least important ones, have been happy with Bush's level of consultation. Those DEMs include Lieberman, Byrd and Lehee. So that leads me to believe that either this nomination will sail through or Bush screwed them.
I assume you mean Patrick Leahy. If so, that's great, as well as Byrd. As for Lieberman, who gives a shit what he thinks.

Tyrone Slothrop 07-19-2005 09:18 PM

Did He Consult?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
I assume you mean Patrick Leahy.
Ricky Ledee, maybe?

ltl/fb 07-19-2005 09:20 PM

breaking news: the doomsday clock ticks one minute closer to the apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
That doesn't get me there.
I don't think even an express train is going to get you there.

Sexual Harassment Panda 07-19-2005 09:24 PM

breaking news: the doomsday clock ticks one minute closer to the apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
That doesn't get me there.
The constitution says nothing about the responsibility of the Senate to make sure that the consent is given via an up or down vote of each of its members. In conjunction with the fact that each House may make its own rules on how to carry out its business, the Senate could determine consent on a coin toss if it so chose.

SlaveNoMore 07-19-2005 09:24 PM

Did He Consult?
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
Ricky Ledee, maybe?
And a player to be named later?

Replaced_Texan 07-19-2005 09:25 PM

Did He Consult?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I've read recently that the Dems, at least important ones, have been happy with Bush's level of consultation. Those DEMs include Lieberman, Byrd and Lehee. So that leads me to believe that either this nomination will sail through or Bush screwed them.
They've already taken a look at him in 2003, so most of the vetting is already done. The fact that he conceeded that Roe is the law of the land in that confirmation process shows that a) he (unlike Thomas) believes in stare decisis and b) Roe isn't in jeapordy from him.

I'm guessing this will be a Bryer and Ginsburg type of confirmation process. 90 plus Senators will confirm, unless there's some sort of major scandal out there over him.

ETA: NARAL hates him. Abortion is going to be key in this confirmation process. He has a nice resume of fighting Roe for the fundies, but if what he said in his confirmation hearing in 2003 is still accurate, the pro-choice crowd should be mollified.

That said, what people say and what they do are two entirely different things, though when it comes to Supreme Court Justices, the GOP isn't that great at getting their people to do what they want.

SlaveNoMore 07-19-2005 09:28 PM

Shite of Get off the Pot time
 
Quote:

Sexual Harassment Panda
You did as well as Slave did.
So he went with Roberts, the Rehnquist clerk, over Luttig, the Scalia clerk.

Perhaps the strategy is to save Luttig for when Rehnquist leaves and Scalia gets promoted to CJ - thus replacing Scalia with a protege.

I was wrong, but not unhappy at the choice.

PS - Estrada was a joke.

Penske_Account 07-19-2005 09:31 PM

Restoring honor and dignity to the White House!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Accusing someone who served this country as a covert CIA operative of "treason" is outrageous even for a third-rate troll like you, Penske.
Have you ever heard of Aldrich Ames or Edward Lee Howard? Keep drinking the kool-aid Sidd.

Penske_Account 07-19-2005 09:32 PM

Shite of Get off the Pot time
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
You did as well as Slave did.
I was wrong. OTOH, he was #4 on my list that I released on July 4th. Not bad overall.

Plus, we win!

Penske_Account 07-19-2005 09:33 PM

Did He Consult?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
and b) Roe isn't in jeapordy from him.

It will be properly narrowed.

Replaced_Texan 07-19-2005 09:44 PM

Did He Consult?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Penske_Account
It will be properly narrowed.
So it's no longer "settled law"?

Penske_Account 07-19-2005 10:00 PM

Did He Consult?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
So it's no longer "settled law"?
I don't think anything is ever "settled" with finality and thank god for that or we would have never had Brown v. Board of Ed.

SlaveNoMore 07-19-2005 10:11 PM

Here it comes...
 
Front page of NOW's website:

Quote:

Bush Picks Anti-Roe Judge...Women's Lives on the Line
---

People for the American Way:

Quote:

"Bush Nominates John Roberts for Supreme Court -
Nomination raises serious concerns, questions

People for the American Way is extremely disappointed that the President did not choose a consensus nominee in the mold of Sandra Day O’Connor. John Roberts’ record raises serious concerns as well as questions about where he stands on crucial legal and constitutional issues – it will be extremely important for Senators and the American people to get answers to those questions. Replacing O’Connor with someone who is not committed to upholding Americans’ rights, liberties, and legal protections would be a constitutional catastrophe"
----

NARAL:

Quote:

HELP SAVE THE SUPREME COURT FROM PRESIDENT BUSH - TELL YOUR SENATORS TO OPPOSE ANTI-CHOICE JOHN ROBERTS

[form letter attached]

sgtclub 07-19-2005 10:11 PM

breaking news: the doomsday clock ticks one minute closer to the apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
The constitution says nothing about the responsibility of the Senate to make sure that the consent is given via an up or down vote of each of its members. In conjunction with the fact that each House may make its own rules on how to carry out its business, the Senate could determine consent on a coin toss if it so chose.
I'm not a constitutional scholar, but if you take this view, then I think you must also take the view that the Senate could pass a rule that says that it only takes 40 votes to approve a bill or imposes a supermajority vote to approve a bill. Do you agree?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 07-19-2005 10:35 PM

BREAKING NEWS UPDATE.......
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
C'mon. It's Drudge. Deep in your heart, you know he's wrong. Again.

eta: OTOH, CNN is confirming. Stopped clocks and all that.
Translation: Drudge's source was CNN.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 07-19-2005 10:38 PM

breaking news: the doomsday clock ticks one minute closer to the apocalypse
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Because the CON requires the advise and consent of the "Senate" not a committee thereof. Ty takes the view that the Senate can make it's own rules governing how it gives or does not give it's consent. I question the Constiutionality of that. A committee structure in general does not raise similar concerns because the Senate does not have a Constitutional obligation to pass laws.
Nothing says advise and consent means only a majority. Nor does anything say they must consent to a nominee. The president can propose nominees; the senate can vote them down. The president can propose laws; the senate can refuse to pass them. You have a distinction without a difference. what matters is, when the Senate decides to take action, must it always have an escape-valve that ensures a simple majority can take action, regardless of whatever rules it has in place that might prevent that? In other words, you're still missing the point: The Senate (and to a lesser degree teh House) has a host of rules and structures that mean the majority may not get its way. Committee structure is but just one.


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