OK. But then again, if there is such a thing as race (which is very disputable) Mexicans are the same race as us. Their big difference is culture, and the biggest difference between our prospective cultures is the Catholic influence. Mr. Buchanan claims he is not a racist but a culturist, and his biggest problem with American culture is that we are not catholic enough, so you would think he would embrace a strong influx of Mexican culture into this country.

I think it is safe to say that he is just an idiot.

Jinx!

Slow PB day
 

Agreed. I don't think we are saying hugely different things here. There was some imperfect intelligence that led to some imperfect result from the Israeli side, but the actual analysis of what they knew when is speculative, although based on past history, they certainly knew something, albeit imperfect.

Yes?

I get confused by race at times, but, I am fairly certain that Buchanan is caucasian and is generally pimping for a White-Male-American ideal, and Mexicans are "people of colour", which is different.

Is this right?

Eitherwhichway, going back to the early 80s McLaughlin Report, I never like Buchanan. I was a Novak guy. I see Sidd as a Morton KOndracke type, Wonk as a Jack Germond type, Adder as Michael Kinsley when he was guesting type. And Shifter as Eleanor Clift when she was guesting type.

Ouch.
 

Ouch. However, in practical terms I am not sure they indicated how the operation should have been run (indecisiveness is a pretty vague term). Somtimes you have to adapt to changing circumstances, as the unexpected always happens in war.


TEXT: Protest petition by IDF reservists back from the war

By Haaretz Service

The following is the text of a petition signed by IDF reservists who served in the Spearhead Brigade in Lebanon, sent to Defense Minister Amir Peretz and IDF Chief of Staff Dan Halutz in protest at the handling of the war by the government and senior military officials:

We, fighters and commanders at the Spearhead [Hod Hachanit] Brigade, were called up to enlist under an emergency mobilization order [Tzav 8] on July 30, 2006. Our attendance was complete in all battalions.

As we were signing on the battle equipment and weapons, we knew that we were signing for much more. We left behind wives and children, girlfriends and families. We put aside our jobs and livelihoods; we were prepared to carry out our mission under the most difficult of conditions, in heat, thirst or hunger.

At the back of his mind, each and every one of us knew, that for the just cause of protecting the citizens of Israel, we would even put our lives on the line.

But there was one thing we were not and would not be willing to accept: We were unwilling to accept indecisiveness. The war's aim, which was not defined clearly, was even changed in the course of the fighting.

The indecisiveness manifested itself in inaction, in not carrying out operational plans, and in canceling all the missions we were given during the fighting. This led to prolonged stays in hostile territory, without an operational purpose and out of unprofessional considerations, without seeking to engage in combat with the enemy.

The "cold feet" of the decision-makers were evident everywhere. To us the indecisiveness expressed deep disrespect for our willingness to join the ranks and fight and made us feel as though we had been spat on, since it contradicts the principles and values of warfare upon which we were trained at the Israel Defense Forces.

The heavy feeling that in the echelons above us there is nothing but under-preparation, insincerity, lack of foresight and inability to make rational decisions, leads to the question - were we called up for nothing?

We are now on the day after, and it seems that the immorality and the absence of any shame are the fig-leaves to be used in order to cover up for the blunders. The blunders of the past six years and the under-preparation of the army have been carried on our backs - the backs of the fighters. In order to face the next battle prepared - and this may happen soon - a thorough and fundamental change must take place.

The crisis of confidence between us as fighters and the higher echelons will not be resolved without a thorough and worthy investigative commission under the auspices of the state. When the commission completes its task, conclusions must be drawn both on the level of strategic planning and national security, and on the personal level of the parties involved.

We paid a heavy price in order to fight and come out of the battle victorious, and we feel this has been denied of us. We will all attend calls to enlist in the future for any mission we will be required to complete, but we would like to know that these missions will be part of a clear objective and will be carried out by striving to engage in combat.

As soldiers and citizens we expect a response at your earliest convenience,

We the undersigned

Fighters and officers of the Spearhead Brigade

He is anti busines, anti free trade, against the invasion of Iraq, and hates Israel. I wish he would just join the Democrat party already.

Ouch.
 

Translation: Take the leash off and let us do our job.

He shoots, he scores!

Buchanan is a nativist (in addition to being an idiot). That, and an extremely strong "law and order" sense, is why he will not embrace an influx of Mexican culture.

Slow PB day
 

Yes. But I think that what they didn't know is sufficient to render any plan that relies on targetted bombing of Iran, based on Israeli intelligence about the location of Iran's weapons programs, pure folly.

Let's put it this way: If Israeli intelligence is good enough to tell us exactly where to bomb to neutralize Iran's weapons program (rendering ground forces unnecessary), then why wasn't Israel's intelligence good enough to tell Israel where to bomb to neutralize Hezbollah's long-range missile capabilities before the ground invasion?

So he thinks we should give all the land back to the Native Americans? I am not all that excited about being moved back to Leicester. Can I go to Florence instead? How about San Jose, Costa Rica?

Leaving aside the fringe -- and the Repubs, obviously, also have an anti-Israel fringe (like Buchanan) -- the Dems hardly "hate Israel." Among other things, that would make raising votes and money in places like NYC rather difficult.

"nativist" in the US has never meant "native American." We are a collection of happy, civilized, productive white people, mostly from Britain.l

Slow PB day
 

The problem here is anything I post will be speculation (other than search right wing Israeli boards for partisan affirmation), but two things stand out that differentiate it:

1. Sharon felt burned on Lebanon and choose to focus on other areas, which, gives some explanation for the imperfect intelligence on that front; and

2. Iran is a much bigger threat because it is a life and death threat. Being the only nuclear power on the block gave Israel a much greater security foundation. Having a Shi'a bomb, where thenholders are crazy enough to deliver it, changes the equation. If Israel is prioritising its intelligence and security functions, I would think, and hope that this is at the top. Maybe I am wrong. Again, I don't know at this point that they have to know every site in Iran, if they take out 60-70% of the capacity, perhaps they set the progbram back enough for other forces to moderate Iran.

Slow PB day
 

Counterbalancing that: Iran is a big country, with much more space to hide things than southern Lebanon. It is further away from Israel, and thus harder to keep a close watch on. It is a closed society. It has an effective, highly paranoid, and relatively sophisticated government, which knows that it needs to hide these facilities as well and as deeply as possible, and which has virtually unlimited financial resources available to do so.

Slow PB day
 

My understanding from my Radio Free Teheran friends is that there is some sizable internal resistance movements, which funnel out intelligence in a way that was not present in Iraq or amongst the more controlled areas of Hezbollah-land.

Slow PB day
 

Iraqi insurgents were supposedly giving us intelligence in Iraq, too. Remember Curveball?

Slow PB day
 

Actually I am missing that reference.

I get the sense that there is more support in Iran for a more open westernized system. It seems as if there may be more opportunity to win the hearts and minds there with iPods and big macs.

Slow PB day
 

I did. I was saying 5-10 years on this board. Search it if you don't believe me.

Slow PB day
 

2.

I think I used a sock to say it.

Slow PB day
 

I think this is right. Iran was under a cruel dictator for years like Iraq, but the Iranians now know an Islamic dictatorship is not an improvement- Iraq may still need to learn this lesson the hard- same with France.

Slow PB day
 

During the shah's last 15-20 years Iran sent a lot of kids to the US to get educated. Those people went back and are part of a middle class that is amenable to some western liberalization.

We take out the Ayatollahs with bunkerbusters and win the hearts and minds of the bourgeouisises with iPods and big macs.

Slow PB day
 

the real Penske would have ran with the France lead I gave him. I miss him:(

Slow PB day
 

Kinder, gentler and more well behaviouralised. Also, I saw how Sidd took down ppnyc over on the fb and I am trying to protect myself.

Slow PB day
 

you shouldn't fear ppnyc's fate. no one has ever mentioned you as being attractive, plus everyone knows you are chubby and the "running fast" posts are some form of odd denial. you have nothing to fear.:)

August 22nd
 

Anyone care to presage what the "awful" event is going to be?

Slow PB day
 

Phew. I have nice hair. Someone told me that just earlier today. A bigtime NYC powerboy in fact. Well...

August 22nd
 

Someone at the presidential palace forgets to re-fill the stone and pebble container in the executive bathroom and Ahmadenijad ends up gettings shit on his hand when he wipes.

Yes, that is what I said.

Slow PB day
 

That's all well and good, but so what?

We've been discussing US military credibility. Credibility means, in essence, that what you say is true, you will do what you say, you will accomplish what you say you will accomplish.

US military credibility is not judged by what anonymous posters thought -- or even what the Admin may have thought privately. It is judged by what US leaders claimed would happen versus what actually happened. And the staggering gulf between the two has damaged our credibility, to the point where neither Iran nor North Korea feel particularly threatened with consequences for building up their nuclear programs.

And US capability is judged the same way. When Cheney says the insurgency is in its last throes, and it gets stronger and stronger over the next year or so -- with no end in sight -- that looks like a victory to these people, and the aura of victory increases their support. Just like Hezbollah looks powerful because Israel mistakenly asserted that it would accomplish much more than it did.

Moreover, I think that what the Admin thought privately was consistent with what they said publicly -- they were drinking their own whiskey, as we say. The planning for the aftermath of Saddam's downfall reflected anything but a leadership that expected a 5-10 year war. You may have predicted that, but you weren't involved in the planning and no one who was had, or acted on, similar foresight.

August 22nd
 

huh?

Slow PB day
 

Which has to make you wonder if Iran today isn't a far more attractive target the "Bush doctrine" of preemption. It actually has a nuclear program, it actually sponsors international terrorism (although not al queda as far as I know), it is an equally repressive region, and it has been asserting its strength in the region.

Unfortunately, Bush squandered all of his diplomatic and political capital on the neo-con wet dream in Iraq.

Slow PB day
 

Most of those people live in the U.S. now. Until Slave sends them back, anyway.

August 22nd
 

August 22

If that is a pay site (I pay for at least another part of it, so I can't tell), google:

"Bernard Lewis" and "august 22"

August 22nd
 

Your favorite watering hole will run out of scotch.

Slow PB day
 

He spent some of it, he didn't squander all of it. He is still the CinC. If he launches a preemptive strike what's going to happen? Impeachment? Ha ha ha.

Slow PB day
 

The iranian dissidents I know tell me a sizable portion of those people stll live in Iran.

August 22nd
 

Shifter's going to bang ppnyc after lunch?

August 22nd
 

No thanks. Too swarthy. And the soul patch really should go.

August 22nd
 

You think? [sigh] I don't know, I have been considering it. How do i keep maintain my neohippie cred in seattle?