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-   -   Meet your new thread, same as the old thread. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781)

LessinSF 12-14-2007 11:45 AM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I honestly think we should simplify foreign policy, like say a Russian politician says "The United States acts like the world's babysitter meddling in other countries' affairs when it has no rights under international law." Or, "the united States claims the moral high ground, but then supports murderous dictators!"

I think our response should be, "So?" I think we need to move away from nuance. I don't think we live in a nuanced world so much anymore.
Exactly. Like when this Serb general was sentenced to 33 years yesterday for "murder, inhumane treatment and overseeing a campaign of terror that indiscriminately lobbed shells and bombs into the city, killing thousands of civilians." http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=3987187 . My first thought was Dresden and Hiroshima and its too fucking bad we can't exhume Ike to try him for war crimes.

The problem with saying "so?" comes when we want help and have no goodwill or credibility. But I don't mind that we lack in both because I don't want to be the THE country in the world. I welcome our dimishing stature, our devalued currency, our illeteracy, our ignorance masquerading as freedom of religion, our lack of a moral high ground on so many issues, our decreasing life expectancy rank, etc. Let the other 7 of the G-8 try for awhile. Let them be the targets. Let them try to make sense of 6+ billion people caring about nothing but propagating, air conditioning, Wiis, and going to heaven.

The United States has run its course. Sell high and enjoy the proceeds.

Secret_Agent_Man 12-14-2007 11:48 AM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
me personally? doesn't matter. i trust my governement. the executive branch proposed using it, and my elected congress had no objection, so I'm okay with it.
You're too smart to think this way, but it helps you here, right?

S_A_M

Hank Chinaski 12-14-2007 11:50 AM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by LessinSF
Exactly. Like when this Serb general was sentenced to 33 years yesterday for "murder, inhumane treatment and overseeing a campaign of terror that indiscriminately lobbed shells and bombs into the city, killing thousands of civilians." http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=3987187 . My first thought was Dresden and Hiroshima and its too fucking bad we can't exhume Ike to try him for war crimes.

The problem with saying "so?" comes when we want help and have no goodwill or credibility. But I don't mind that we lack in both because I don't want to be the THE country in the world. I welcome our dimishing stature, our devalued currency, our illeteracy, our ignorance masquerading as freedom of religion, our lack of a moral high ground on so many issues, our decreasing life expectancy rank, etc. Let the other 7 of the G-8 try for awhile. Let them be the targets. Let them try to make sense of 6+ billion people caring about nothing but propagating, air conditioning, Wiis, and going to heaven.

The United States has run its course. Sell high and enjoy the proceeds.
How many japanese citizens died in hiroshima?

How many Japanese citizens died during the invasion of Okinawa?

How many purple hearts had the US ordered to be used during the invasion of the main islands?

When was the last time the US purchased purple hearts?

but like i dig man, it was bogue to do it!

futbol fan 12-14-2007 12:09 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
How many japanese citizens died in hiroshima?

How many Japanese citizens died during the invasion of Okinawa?

How many purple hearts had the US ordered to be used during the invasion of the main islands?

When was the last time the US purchased purple hearts?

but like i dig man, it was bogue to do it!
2. That Serbian general probably saved a lot of his troops by doing that.

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 12:46 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
I will admit that I have a pretty good sense of Giuliani, not least because of the lunatics he has surrounded himself with as advisors
Ted Olsen is a lunatic. Uh, ok.

Hank Chinaski 12-14-2007 12:50 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ironweed
2. That Serbian general probably saved a lot of his troops by doing that.
go back and read the first two lines of my post. we saved Japanes civilians by dropping the bomb. dolt.

futbol fan 12-14-2007 12:58 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
go back and read the first two lines of my post. we saved Japanes civilians by dropping the bomb. dolt.
Except for the ones we actually killed. But I bet they never even thanked us for that, did they? Idiots.

Tyrone Slothrop 12-14-2007 12:59 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Ted Olsen is a lunatic. Uh, ok.
Sorry -- insert "foreign policy" before advisors. Ted Olson is not a lunatic, though he does seem to hang out with a lot of lunatics, for a sane fellow.

Hank Chinaski 12-14-2007 01:15 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ironweed
Except for the ones we actually killed. But I bet they never even thanked us for that, did they? Idiots.
do you think the 10,000,000 civilians that were saved thank us? I think they do.

why are you so bothered by the 3000 US deaths in Iraq, but indifferent to 500,000 US soldiers being killed invading Japan?

I hear american troops shot 6 German guards when they liberated Bergan Belsen. should I feel shame over it?

Diane_Keaton 12-14-2007 01:36 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by LessinSF
Exactly. Like when this Serb general was sentenced to 33 years yesterday for "murder, inhumane treatment and overseeing a campaign of terror that indiscriminately lobbed shells and bombs into the city, killing thousands of civilians." http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=3987187 . My first thought was Dresden and Hiroshima and its too fucking bad we can't exhume Ike to try him for war crimes.

The problem with saying "so?" comes when we want help and have no goodwill or credibility. But I don't mind that we lack in both because I don't want to be the THE country in the world. I welcome our dimishing stature, our devalued currency, our illeteracy, our ignorance masquerading as freedom of religion, our lack of a moral high ground on so many issues, our decreasing life expectancy rank, etc. Let the other 7 of the G-8 try for awhile. Let them be the targets. Let them try to make sense of 6+ billion people caring about nothing but propagating, air conditioning, Wiis, and going to heaven.

The United States has run its course. Sell high and enjoy the proceeds.
Sebby?

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2007 02:22 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Sebby?
I can no longer post as Less basically just annexed my entire shtick/philosophy.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2007 02:33 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by LessinSF
Exactly. Like when this Serb general was sentenced to 33 years yesterday for "murder, inhumane treatment and overseeing a campaign of terror that indiscriminately lobbed shells and bombs into the city, killing thousands of civilians." http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ory?id=3987187 . My first thought was Dresden and Hiroshima and its too fucking bad we can't exhume Ike to try him for war crimes.

The problem with saying "so?" comes when we want help and have no goodwill or credibility. But I don't mind that we lack in both because I don't want to be the THE country in the world. I welcome our dimishing stature, our devalued currency, our illeteracy, our ignorance masquerading as freedom of religion, our lack of a moral high ground on so many issues, our decreasing life expectancy rank, etc. Let the other 7 of the G-8 try for awhile. Let them be the targets. Let them try to make sense of 6+ billion people caring about nothing but propagating, air conditioning, Wiis, and going to heaven.

The United States has run its course. Sell high and enjoy the proceeds.
I love reading Alan Greenspan talk about how we have to avoid bubbles in the Journal.

Hey Alan, WTF else do we create any more? Welcome to the United States, where we recreate the Tulip Craze every seven years.

And WTF is Henry Paulson doing talking about the "tragedy" of the mortgage meltdown? Unless you have absolute dog shit between your ears that was the most obvious game of financial musical chairs in years.

We are in a hustlers economy for the long term foreseeable future. Which I think is good. Lets run this Capitalism thing to its crazy lunatic end.

All credit is long term credit today. Wait until the mortgage fallout slams into the credit card companies. That will be astounding. We're still about six months from the leading edge of that calamity.

Tyrone Slothrop 12-14-2007 02:39 PM

free-market Democrats
 
  • Today the Senate voted on an amendment by Byron Dorgan and Chuck Grassley to make the appalling farm bill slightly less bad (the effort to make it significantly less bad having already failed, garnering only 37 votes). The Dorgan/Grassley amendment got 56 votes--and so, of course, it failed also, since in typical Senate fashion it needed 60 to pass. (It should be noted, by the way, that while it was a bipartisan group who voted down the amendment, only 12 Democrats voted the wrong way, while 31 Republicans voted for a bill that would make Milton Friedman vomit in terror. Draw your own conclusions about which party actually believes in free markets.)

TNR

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 02:40 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
I love reading Alan Greenspan talk about how we have to avoid bubbles in the Journal.
He said the same thing in speech to the CMSA back in NY in July. 3 weeks later, the credit markets crashed.

Better question to me, was, if you need cheap credit would lead to this debacle, why did the Fed on your watch keep the rate ar such record lows?

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 02:53 PM

free-market Democrats
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
Draw your own conclusions about which party actually believes in free markets
The answer is Neither.

To suggest otherwise - that somehow Senate Democrats believe in free markets - is to suggest the moon is made of cheese.

Tyrone Slothrop 12-14-2007 03:00 PM

free-market Democrats
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The answer is Neither.

To suggest otherwise - that somehow Senate Democrats believe in free markets - is to suggest the moon is made of cheese.
Be that as it may, they voted better on this one that the GOP did.

Cletus Miller 12-14-2007 03:03 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
When was the last time the US purchased purple hearts?
Apparently, you need to modify this chestnut:

"Korean War veteran Nyles Reed, 75, opened an envelope last week to learn a Purple Heart had been approved for injuries he sustained as a Marine on June 22, 1952.

But there was no medal. Just a certificate and a form stating that the medal was "out of stock."

"I can imagine, of course, with what's going on in Iraq and Afghanistan, there's a big shortage," Reed said. "At least, I would imagine so."

The form letter from the Navy Personnel Command told Reed he could wait 90 days and resubmit an application, or buy his own medal.

After waiting 55 years, however, Reed decided to pay $42 for his own Purple Heart and accompanying ribbon — plus state sales taxes — at a military surplus store..."

http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules...ticle&sid=2399

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 03:12 PM

free-market Democrats
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
Be that as it may, they voted better on this one that the GOP did.
There is no valor voting for (or against) something doomed for failure.

As the article you quote states - lets see this valor when the real bill comes up.

futbol fan 12-14-2007 03:26 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
do you think the 10,000,000 civilians that were saved thank us? I think they do.
Our invading troops would have killed 10,000,000 civilians? I for one will not sit here and listen to you call our armed forces a pack of murdering animals.

Tyrone Slothrop 12-14-2007 03:29 PM

free-market Democrats
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
There is no valor voting for (or against) something doomed for failure.

As the article you quote states - lets see this valor when the real bill comes up.
It wasn't doomed for failure. It got 56 votes. If a few Republicans had voted the other way, it would have had a filibuster-proof majority.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2007 03:59 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
He said the same thing in speech to the CMSA back in NY in July. 3 weeks later, the credit markets crashed.

Better question to me, was, if you need cheap credit would lead to this debacle, why did the Fed on your watch keep the rate ar such record lows?
The pragmatic reality is that we are in a bubble economy. Greenspan knows this, as he admitted in his Journal oped when he said middle class wages in this country have for three decades been "flattening" and will not un-flatten until foreign labor costs creep to meet ours in, say, 2070. The middle and upper middle class is the survivor class. Take away their solid job base and they start finding things to sell and creating all sorts of markets aided by Wall St, of course.

We're going to keep having these silly bubbles, and we're going to see stranger and stranger lending vehicles appearing.

Gattigap 12-14-2007 04:00 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ironweed
Our invading troops would have killed 10,000,000 civilians? I for one will not sit here and listen to you call our armed forces a pack of murdering animals.
Hank was thinking of Dresden, and felt shame.

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 04:03 PM

free-market Democrats
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
It wasn't doomed for failure. It got 56 votes. If a few Republicans had voted the other way, it would have had a filibuster-proof majority.
As the astute (snicker) author at TNR (snort) pointed out, why vote for a reform bill when the actual bill is so odious. Vote that one down. Period. End of story.

Hank Chinaski 12-14-2007 04:03 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ironweed
Our invading troops would have killed 10,000,000 civilians? I for one will not sit here and listen to you call our armed forces a pack of murdering animals.
believe me, I invented posting form a position of ignorance, but I knew I was doing it.

other than the reports in HS that you are dull normal, I'm not sure you realize how dumb you sound with this.

Hint: the entire population, women, children, guys older than Wonk, they were all being forced to "defend the homeland." 10,000,000 is not an excessive estimate.

Ty, can you tell him how dumb he is please.

Hank Chinaski 12-14-2007 04:04 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Hank was thinking of Dresden, and felt shame.
hint to you: Ironweed ain't the brightest bulb in the box. I think you're better off tying you wagon to Ty's star.

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 04:04 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
We're going to keep having these silly bubbles, and we're going to see stranger and stranger lending vehicles appearing.
As that keeps me in business, I'm generally not complaining.

For now....

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2007 04:09 PM

free-market Democrats
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The answer is Neither.

To suggest otherwise - that somehow Senate Democrats believe in free markets - is to suggest the moon is made of cheese.
Well, thankfully we have Bush's huge bailout for those subprime mortgages as a template for future intervention when markets turn into irrational frenzies. All 300 beneficiaries are breathing a lot easier today.

BTW, when did a guy making $100k and taking out an ARM to buy a $500k house become a subprime borrower. Is "Subprime" the new "Hedge Fund"? Means whatever you want it to mean? I always thought subprime was a low credit score, but low and behold, suddenly, the ass up the street who bought a Hummer, Benz and McMansion with his 2d year associate's salary is a subprime borrower entitled to relief.

Thank God that plan is nothing but smoke and mirrors. I feel bad for a lot of people who got screwed in the inner cities by unscrupulous brokers, but fuck these greedheads who took out interest only loans and ARMs just because they wanted a living room in which they could put a 20 person dining table.

Tyrone Slothrop 12-14-2007 04:10 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
believe me, I invented posting form a position of ignorance, but I knew I was doing it.

other than the reports in HS that you are dull normal, I'm not sure you realize how dumb you sound with this.

Hint: the entire population, women, children, guys older than Wonk, they were all being forced to "defend the homeland." 10,000,000 is not an excessive estimate.

Ty, can you tell him how dumb he is please.
Ironweed, Hank claims to have invented some sort of posting form to demonstrate ignorance on the boards, and I, for one, believe him.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2007 04:14 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
As that keeps me in business, I'm generally not complaining.

For now....
What I don't understand is why so many properties are in foreclosure so rapidly. Is this because the paper was flipped so many times? Or is everybody running to foreclose so they can sell off the properties while the discount is still modest? You'd think they;d want to be a little more open to liberal workouts from a cash flow persepctive. Maybe it's a regulatory thing.

LessinSF 12-14-2007 04:15 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
How many japanese citizens died in hiroshima?

How many Japanese citizens died during the invasion of Okinawa?

How many purple hearts had the US ordered to be used during the invasion of the main islands?

When was the last time the US purchased purple hearts?

but like i dig man, it was bogue to do it!
I have little problem with it, but - under the approach being used in the Serbian war crimes trials - it was a war crime and Truman, Ike, Bradley, et al. are war criminals. But, then again, I don't see why Iran or N. Korea are any less entitled to nukes than we are.

Hank Chinaski 12-14-2007 04:17 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by LessinSF
I have little problem with it, but - under the approach being used in the Serbian war crimes trials - it was a war crime and Truman, Ike, Bradley, et al. are war criminals.
Agreed . it is only because we won that they aren't war criminals.
Quote:

But, then again, I don't see why Iran or N. Korea are any less entitled to nukes than we are.
other than "So, we say so. I don't have a good answer."

Cletus Miller 12-14-2007 04:18 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
What I don't understand is why so many properties are in foreclosure so rapidly. Is this because the paper was flipped so many times? Or is everybody running to foreclose so they can sell off the properties while the discount is still modest? You'd think they;d want to be a little more open to liberal workouts from a cash flow persepctive. Maybe it's a regulatory thing.
A significant percentage (perhaps most) of the foreclosures are on "investor" properties. If there's no one living in them and no hope of flipping, then there's no reason to make payments. Make no payments for 6 months and don't return calls from teh lender, what else is the lender going to do?

futbol fan 12-14-2007 04:19 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Ironweed, Hank claims to have invented some sort of posting form to demonstrate ignorance on the boards, and I, for one, believe him.
That's good enough for me.

Hank Chinaski 12-14-2007 04:20 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ironweed
That's good enough for me.
408-21

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2007 04:23 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
A significant percentage (perhaps most) of the foreclosures are on "investor" properties. If there's no one living in them and no hope of flipping, then there's no reason to make payments. Make no payments for 6 months and don't return calls from teh lender, what else is the lender going to do?
Really? The flippers were that much of the market?

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 04:24 PM

free-market Democrats
 
Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
Well, thankfully we have Bush's huge bailout for those subprime mortgages as a template for future intervention when markets turn into irrational frenzies. All 300 beneficiaries are breathing a lot easier today.

BTW, when did a guy making $100k and taking out an ARM to buy a $500k house become a subprime borrower. Is "Subprime" the new "Hedge Fund"? Means whatever you want it to mean? I always thought subprime was a low credit score, but low and behold, suddenly, the ass up the street who bought a Hummer, Benz and McMansion with his 2d year associate's salary is a subprime borrower entitled to relief.

Thank God that plan is nothing but smoke and mirrors. I feel bad for a lot of people who got screwed in the inner cities by unscrupulous brokers, but fuck these greedheads who took out interest only loans and ARMs just because they wanted a living room in which they could put a 20 person dining table.
The more I read about this "bailout" - I don't get it.

The qualifications are so limited, it's only going to affect about 100,000 loans. A drop in the bucket. And most aren't even what is regarded as sub-prime. So why do anything at all?

The whole concept is deplorable. By propping up artificially high RE values - ostensibly so homeowners can continue the "American Dream" of owning a home - it's keeping countless others on the outside of the American Dream of owning a home.

LessinSF 12-14-2007 04:27 PM

free-market Democrats
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The more I read about this "bailout" - I don't get it.

The qualifications are so limited, it's only going to affect about 100,000 loans. A drop in the bucket. And most aren't even what is regarded as sub-prime. So why do anything at all?

The whole concept is deplorable. By propping up artificially high RE values - ostensibly so homeowners can continue the "American Dream" of owning a home - it's keeping countless others on the outside of the American Dream of owning a home.
Even the corpse of Lee Iacocca thinks it's bad policy.

Cletus Miller 12-14-2007 04:27 PM

free-market Democrats
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
BTW, when did a guy making $100k and taking out an ARM to buy a $500k house become a subprime borrower.
Subprime, Alt-A, and Prime in mortgage lending all depend on three major factors: Credit Score (credit history), total Income-to-debt ratio (ability to service debt) and Collateral value.

You can make $500k/year and have perfect credit but be sub-prime if you want 100% financing on a $5mm house and have no other assets. You can be prime making $30k/year with a so-so (but not bad) credit score if you are borrowing $40k to buy a $55k house in north-central PA.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2007 04:29 PM

free-market Democrats
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The more I read about this "bailout" - I don't get it.

The qualifications are so limited, it's only going to affect about 100,000 loans. A drop in the bucket. And most aren't even what is regarded as sub-prime. So why do anything at all?

The whole concept is deplorable. By propping up artificially high RE values - ostensibly so homeowners can continue the "American Dream" of owning a home - it's keeping countless others on the outside of the American Dream of owning a home.
Well, its not a real plan at all. It's just a photo-op. In my own craven little view, I'd let the market implode. RE is all about location anyway, so none of the people buying wisely would be hurt all that much, which is kind of how a market is supposed to work, no?

Cletus Miller 12-14-2007 04:31 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Really? The flippers were that much of the market?
In a lot of places, yes. There are several new condo buildings in Chicago where, a few months after the initial closings, about 30% of the units are listed for re-sale. Parts of Florida and Las Vegas are likely worse. No doubt, the foreclosures in Michigan ad Ohio aren't being driven by flippers.


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