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-   -   Meet your new thread, same as the old thread. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781)

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 04:34 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Cletus Miller
A significant percentage (perhaps most) of the foreclosures are on "investor" properties. If there's no one living in them and no hope of flipping, then there's no reason to make payments. Make no payments for 6 months and don't return calls from teh lender, what else is the lender going to do?
Sit on a portfolio of useless REO? Or more likely do a workout and eat half the UPB?

Did you just call me Coltrane? 12-14-2007 04:40 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
In a lot of places, yes. There are several new condo buildings in Chicago where, a few months after the initial closings, about 30% of the units are listed for re-sale. Parts of Florida and Las Vegas are likely worse. No doubt, the foreclosures in Michigan ad Ohio aren't being driven by flippers.
Yet, Chicago hasn't really been hit that hard. We really never had the huge run-up that Florida/Cal/Phx/Vegas did, so prices have leveled off substantially, but not significantly dropped.

ETA: although maybe that's not the case for fungible high-rise condos.

Cletus Miller 12-14-2007 04:41 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Sit on a portfolio of useless REO? Or more likely do a workout and eat half the UPB?
Hey, the borrower has to call you back first. And taking back the real estate allows some deferral on recognizing the loss. Plus, if the 2d lien is with another lender (common) then you don't have to deal with them, too.

In any given situation, of course a workout is the better course for almost everyone. I take the "bailout" as being a pre-negotiated framework for workouts with a pre-determined set of qualifcations on the borrower side. Let's the lenders plow through a bunch of re-negotiations using trained apes.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2007 04:41 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
In a lot of places, yes. There are several new condo buildings in Chicago where, a few months after the initial closings, about 30% of the units are listed for re-sale. Parts of Florida and Las Vegas are likely worse. No doubt, the foreclosures in Michigan ad Ohio aren't being driven by flippers.
Has that case where the Fed Judge dismissed a foreclosure action because the owners of the securities couldn't get the original mortgage papers caused any reverberations? I read the ruling and, after cracking up a bit, thought "Wow, what a gift for lawyers. All those billable hours tracking that stuff through the pipeline."

Cletus Miller 12-14-2007 04:44 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
Yet, Chicago hasn't really been hit that hard. We really never had the huge run-up that Florida/Cal/Phx/Vegas did, so prices have leveled off substantially, but not significantly dropped.

ETA: although maybe that's not the case for fungible high-rise condos.
Prices haven't really started dropping yet, but the re-sale market (and the new market, too; Trump apparently hasn't signed a contract on anything in months) for DT condos is pretty much D-E-D. Houses in my (city) neighborhood are lingering for quite a while and a number have had modest price reductions.

Atticus Grinch 12-14-2007 04:51 PM

free-market Democrats
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
By propping up artificially high RE values - ostensibly so homeowners can continue the "American Dream" of owning a home - it's keeping countless others on the outside of the American Dream of owning a home.
Careful. I made a similar argument on the FB about the NFL, and the next thing I know Hank is posting a fantasy about the HS version of me getting wilded in the shower. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Cletus Miller 12-14-2007 04:57 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Has that case where the Fed Judge dismissed a foreclosure action because the owners of the securities couldn't get the original mortgage papers caused any reverberations? I read the ruling and, after cracking up a bit, thought "Wow, what a gift for lawyers. All those billable hours tracking that stuff through the pipeline."
I hadn't seen it before. It's just a procedural issue, unless the mortgage originator has filed bankruptcy. Everyone will have their assignments in order next time.

In this case, it seems that the lawyer dug his own hole: "Plaintiff’s, “Judge, you just don’t understand how things work,” argument reveals a condescending
mindset. . .". It's never a good idea to approach a federal judge in a manner which could be percevied as condescending. Whoever represented DB is lucky they didn't get sanctioned.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2007 05:06 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
I hadn't seen it before. It's just a procedural issue, unless the mortgage originator has filed bankruptcy. Everyone will have their assignments in order next time.

In this case, it seems that the lawyer dug his own hole: "Plaintiff’s, “Judge, you just don’t understand how things work,” argument reveals a condescending
mindset. . .". It's never a good idea to approach a federal judge in a manner which could be percevied as condescending. Whoever represented DB is lucky they didn't get sanctioned.
Yeh, that was pretty funny. Sadly, I can't say I haven't heard something like it before, but usually at the state level. Doing that in Fed Ct is just fucking insane.

Cletus Miller 12-14-2007 05:14 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Yeh, that was pretty funny. Sadly, I can't say I haven't heard something like it before, but usually at the state level. Doing that in Fed Ct is just fucking insane.
Oh, I've heard (and read) similar things out of other federal courts, but it's always a statement made out of frustration when he knows he's going to lose. It's not a good time to start complaining.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 12-14-2007 05:26 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
A significant percentage (perhaps most) of the foreclosures are on "investor" properties. If there's no one living in them and no hope of flipping, then there's no reason to make payments. Make no payments for 6 months and don't return calls from teh lender, what else is the lender going to do?
Isn't there also a problem with having all of the mortgages securitized, and as a result getting the various interested holders of a piece of the mortgage together to agree to work-out terms is much more difficult than if, say, a single bank owns the loan?

sebastian_dangerfield 12-14-2007 05:28 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Isn't there also a problem with having all of the mortgages securitized, and as a result getting the various interested holders of a piece of the mortgage together to agree to work-out terms is much more difficult than if, say, a single bank owns the loan?
Were they packaged like that? I thought the pools were made up of individual mortgages at their smallest component level. I didn't think any individual mortgage was sliced up.

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 05:33 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Isn't there also a problem with having all of the mortgages securitized, and as a result getting the various interested holders of a piece of the mortgage together to agree to work-out terms is much more difficult than if, say, a single bank owns the loan?
Much more a problem with commercial than resi.

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 05:33 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
Were they packaged like that? I thought the pools were made up of individual mortgages at their smallest component level. I didn't think any individual mortgage was sliced up.
See comment above.

taxwonk 12-14-2007 05:33 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
What I don't understand is why so many properties are in foreclosure so rapidly. Is this because the paper was flipped so many times? Or is everybody running to foreclose so they can sell off the properties while the discount is still modest? You'd think they;d want to be a little more open to liberal workouts from a cash flow persepctive. Maybe it's a regulatory thing.
I think it's driven by regulations requirng them to declare a loan non-performing and reserve against it at 60 days past,

Cletus Miller 12-14-2007 05:34 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Isn't there also a problem with having all of the mortgages securitized, and as a result getting the various interested holders of a piece of the mortgage together to agree to work-out terms is much more difficult than if, say, a single bank owns the loan?
The typical pooling and servicing agreement allows the servicer to do a number of things without consent. Many (I don't know RMBS structures well, so maybe it's different) provide for a special servicer with greater power to modifiy loan terms in bad circumstances.

What I've read indicates that the general thinking on the "bailout" allows for the modification of the loan terms without the consent of the holders or the need to resort to special servicing. I think that there are a lot of entities holding RMBS bonds who have no idea about anything related to the basic structure of the security, nevermind the much discussed lack of knowledge of the underlying assets. All they knew is that the interest payments were higher.

Replaced_Texan 12-14-2007 05:34 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
In a lot of places, yes. There are several new condo buildings in Chicago where, a few months after the initial closings, about 30% of the units are listed for re-sale. Parts of Florida and Las Vegas are likely worse. No doubt, the foreclosures in Michigan ad Ohio aren't being driven by flippers.
Most of the forclosures in my neighborhood have been one very crappily built building that went up about three years ago.

BTW, every city should have a real estate blog like Swamplot. It's great for keeping an eye on what's going on in your community.

ETA: Recent post on swamplot about forclosures and crappy new construction. With video!

taxwonk 12-14-2007 05:39 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Were they packaged like that? I thought the pools were made up of individual mortgages at their smallest component level. I didn't think any individual mortgage was sliced up.
Individual mortgages aren't sliced up. It's the owners of the trust units (or the CMO holders) with various tranches that won't release their security interests and covenant protections in a workout scenario where they know they're losing their asses unless someone pays them a consent fee.

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 05:44 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Cletus Miller
I think that there are a lot of entities holding RMBS bonds who have no idea about anything related to the basic structure of the security, nevermind the much discussed lack of knowledge of the underlying assets. All they knew is that the interest payments were higher.
Bondholders are fairly sophisticated, so I'm not sure about that. And anyone below investment grade definitely knows the structure from inside-out.

SlaveNoMore 12-14-2007 05:45 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

taxwonk
Individual mortgages aren't sliced up. It's the owners of the trust units (or the CMO holders) with various tranches that won't release their security interests and covenant protections in a workout scenario where they know they're losing their asses unless someone pays them a consent fee.
Eh, maybe and probably.

Cletus Miller 12-14-2007 05:56 PM

Is it Me?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Bondholders are fairly sophisticated, so I'm not sure about that. And anyone below investment grade definitely knows the structure from inside-out.
Most bondholders are sophisticated. Many state and county pension funds are not so much--Orange County is holding some RMBS, for example; and the over-publicized Norsk town. But the lower tranche holders--they knew what they were buying.

Gattigap 12-18-2007 04:20 PM

Those Libertarians and Their Magnificent Flying Machines
 
The Ron Paul blimp.
  • Skip to about 1:40 in the video to see the actual lift-off of the blimp, which was attended by more-or-less exactly the kind of people you would expect to see at a Ron Paul Blimp launch.

God Bless America.

Also per the article, it appears that Ron Paul may have the theoretical ability to outraise any other candidate, in both parties.

Gattigap

ETA: I'm amused at the thought of, say, Romney having to write an enormous personal check to end up outraising Ron Paul for the quarter. Of course, Ron will use his gigantic cash reserve by foregoing traditional TV advertising for a blimp flotilla that will flood the skies of the early primary states.

Gattigap 12-18-2007 06:48 PM

Caption, please.
 
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...a_Barbarba.jpg

Kevin Clash gets the view that only Penske and a few other GOP fans could dream of.

Diane_Keaton 12-19-2007 11:18 AM

Druck
 
"MORE DETAILS WILL BE POSTED HERE LATER AND ARE IN THE NEXT EDITION OF THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER"

Yeah, it's the Enquirer but my money is on "He Fucked The Chick That Looks Like Lief Garrett". I hear there are emails that are going to be published between the 2. If he's out of the race it would seem bad for Hillary, who probably counted on him for taking away Obama votes.

Atticus Grinch 12-19-2007 12:11 PM

Druck
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
"MORE DETAILS WILL BE POSTED HERE LATER AND ARE IN THE NEXT EDITION OF THE NATIONAL ENQUIRER"

Yeah, it's the Enquirer but my money is on "He Fucked The Chick That Looks Like Lief Garrett". I hear there are emails that are going to be published between the 2. If he's out of the race it would seem bad for Hillary, who probably counted on him for taking away Obama votes.
But Ann Coulter assured me he was a faggot. Oh, the humanity!

Atticus Grinch 12-19-2007 12:17 PM

Caption, please.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...a_Barbarba.jpg
"Pimpin' and hoein' is the best thing goin'."

Diane_Keaton 12-19-2007 01:09 PM

Druck
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
But Ann Coulter assured me he was a faggot. Oh, the humanity!
We might lose a candidate for Pres of the free world b/c he cheated on his terminally ill wife with a trashy character from a Jay McInerney novel. Naturally, Ann Coulter is to blame.

That's so gay.

Replaced_Texan 12-19-2007 06:00 PM

Druck
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
We might lose a candidate for Pres of the free world b/c he cheated on his terminally ill wife with a trashy character from a Jay McInerney novel. Naturally, Ann Coulter is to blame.

That's so gay.
The National Enquirerer? Really????

Tyrone Slothrop 12-19-2007 07:44 PM

Is it safe to come back, or are we still talking about mortgage-backed securities?

Hank Chinaski 12-19-2007 08:01 PM

Druck
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
We might lose a candidate for Pres of the free world b/c he cheated on his terminally ill wife with a trashy character from a Jay McInerney novel. Naturally, Ann Coulter is to blame
3 things- from the only one besides spanky to actually have any political experience,

1) I believe the Dems talking points include the fact that bush has taken our freedom, so I'm not sure "free world" is accurate. Perhaps "previously free," or "the west" would be better.

2) maybe if he didn't have good photo ops with the dying wife fucking around on her wouldn't be an issue.

3) "lose a candidate?" is he really viable right now? maybe this is his camp's attempt to get a Clinton bounce over Hillary/Obama?

SlaveNoMore 12-19-2007 09:01 PM

Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
Is it safe to come back, or are we still talking about mortgage-backed securities?
I thought we were talking about Edwards' love-child with Britney's kid sister.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-19-2007 09:20 PM

Druck
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Edwards mess.
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. John Edwards is shit with legs.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-19-2007 09:24 PM

Druck
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
The National Enquirerer? Really????
They nailed Gary Hart.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-19-2007 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I thought we were talking about Edwards' love-child with Britney's kid sister.
He'd get my vote for that. On principle.

Hank Chinaski 12-19-2007 09:26 PM

Druck
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
They nailed Gary Hart.
BFD. so did my mom.

Diane_Keaton 12-19-2007 11:15 PM

Druck
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
The National Enquirerer? Really????
I read somewhere that The NQ is going to leak this story out with more details thrown out here and there, agonizingly slow, in order to keep the Edwards camp guessing about what they know and have in terms of records (emails/phone) and who the sources are, and also to make the Edwards camp tell more lies (so the NQ can step in and squash their every retort). And that NQ is going to make this torture for anyone lying about this.

So far it looks like enough got out for the Edwards side to pin fatherhood on that NC fella (probably also shit with legs. Sebby, you are too fucking funny). Which is stooopid b/c why would the guy be admitting fatherhood through an official statement of his lawyer while he and his own wife are hanging out at the preggo's house. But really, how awful that the guy is one minute saying he never heard of the chick and then shortly after, all of a sudden he's talking about having fucked and knocked her up. See pre-"admission" of fatherhood bit below. Between Rudy and this lying fuck, Obama is starting to look really good.

*********************
When ENQUIRER reporters contacted Young in person at his home on Dec. 12, he became furious — and denied he was Andrew Young.

He also denied knowing "any Rielle Hunter," yelling at the top of his voice: "You don't even know who I am!" But when his wife called him "Andrew," he shot her a dirty look.

An enraged Young called police, demanding our reporters be arrested for trespassing. Officers from the Chatham County (N.C.) Sheriff's Department responded, questioned everyone and made no arrests.

While controversy swirls around her, Rielle — a wannabe actress who by her own admission was a drug-using New York party girl in the '80s — stayed in touch with Edwards.

"Rielle told me that she remains in phone contact with John, but can't see him for obvious reasons," said the source close to her.

Diane_Keaton 12-19-2007 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
are we still talking about mortgage-backed securities?
If this is a mortgage backed security, then I reckon we are
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2302/...35e1e5.jpg?v=0

notcasesensitive 12-19-2007 11:39 PM

Druck
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
*********************
When ENQUIRER reporters contacted Young in person at his home on Dec. 12, he became furious — and denied he was Andrew Young.

He also denied knowing "any Rielle Hunter," yelling at the top of his voice: "You don't even know who I am!" But when his wife called him "Andrew," he shot her a dirty look.

An enraged Young called police, demanding our reporters be arrested for trespassing. Officers from the Chatham County (N.C.) Sheriff's Department responded, questioned everyone and made no arrests.
This Andrew Young sounds like he has the same personality as an Andy Young I once knew. That Andy Young is not a politico and does not live in NC, but maybe there is a lot to be angry about if your parents name you Andrew Young.

Hank Chinaski 12-20-2007 10:14 AM

more ron paul ties to blimps, or to the country famous for them at least
 
http://www.vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=63682

Replaced_Texan 12-20-2007 01:00 PM

Fruitcakes
 
This is a fucked up election. (spree: youtube)

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 12-20-2007 01:14 PM

Fruitcakes
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
This is a fucked up election. (spree: youtube)
Is Slave still pushing Fruitcake for President?


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