Victimhood
 

I am saddened by that, but not swayed.

Victimhood
 

You don't need to worry. You're an aristocratic Mexican. Them are the good kind.

Sick Fuck Goes Free
 

That's pretty much what I figured was going on all along.

Victimhood
 

I see. What you're saying then is that we don't need to worry about catching lone terrorists. Okay.

Victimhood
 

Who ever said anything about a test? I never said there was a test. I was just trying to defend ethnic and religious profiling. You were attacking my defense of ethnic and religious profiling (instead of pointing out the practical problems) so it would seem logical that you were attacking ethnic and religious profiling.

And as far as your "practical points" which you say are not arguments against ethnic and religious profiling, didn't I already say that everyone gets checked randomly and that ethnic and religious profiling would be added to the other profiles they already use (like nervous people, one way tickets etc). Its like you are saying that I was implying that ethnic and religious profiling would be the only profiling used, and such profiling would make the system perfect. I never said either of those things making your points irrelevent.

I don't know why were are discussing him in the first place. He was brought up to show that ethnic and religious profiling do not help. His example did not do that because I never said that it would be the only tool used, and I never said it would make the system better, not perfect. So if he does not show that religious and ethnic profiling does not help, then why are we still discussing him?

Victimhood
 

I think that if you're following this line of reasoning you're a bit of an asshole.

Note that you haven't said anything about where they are from, where they are going, their age, their demeanor, whether or not they have carry-on bags, or anything else other than the fact that they are Arabs.

In other words, you have pretty much laid waste to all your protestations that their ethnicity is just one factor in a profile. Of course, pretty much all your posts on the subject, when read carefully, have made it clear that you are saying the mere fact of their ethnicity is enough for you to label Arab males suspect.

Victimhood
 

That has got to be the dumbest statements any one has ever made on this board. Did you ever take statistic in college (or hell did you pass fourth grade math)?

Not all Arabs are Muslim. But is it prejudicial (or with out reason) to say that an Arab is more likely to be Muslim than a Frenchman. Or that an Arab is more likely to commence on the Haj than a Frenchman - of course not. That is just a fact.

Of course there are more Arabs that don't blow up planes than do. Otherwise there wouldn't be any planes left. But, like I said, more Arabs blow up planes per capita, than Norwegians. So it is a fact, all other factors being equal, that an Arab is more likely to blow up a plane than a Frenchman. Just like it is a fact that you are I are more likely to be serial killers than an African American women.

Victimhood
 

I would rather be that than dumber than a lump of paste.

I didn't have to.

Who said anything about suspects? If you are saying that you would feel fine getting on a plane with a group of Arab males, who have thick accents, between the ages of fifteen and sixty, without them getting an extra search, as you would feel with their Norwegian counterparts (all other factors being the same), you are lying.

Victimhood
 

I'm still waiting for an explanation of what you mean by "profiling."

Go Arnold Go
 

The Religious Right is not Happy with Arnold. Cry me a river.

Governor Schwarzenegger Signs Bill Targeting People of Faith
SB 1441 an Assault on Freedom of Organized Religion, Religious Schools

Governor Schwarzenegger signed SB 1441 (Kuehl-D) into law today. SB 1441 would require all businesses and organizations receiving funding from the state to condone homosexuality, bisexuality, and transsexuality or lose state funding. There is no exception for faith-based organizations or business owners with sincerely held religious convictions.

“This isn’t even a veiled attempt at subtly advancing the radical homosexual agenda,” stated Karen England, Executive Director of Capitol Resource Institute. “SB 1441 is an outright, blatant assault on religious freedom in California.”

This legislation will prevent parochial schools, such as private, Christian, Catholic, Mormon, and many other religious universities, from receiving student financial assistance if they also maintain a student code of conduct preventing behavior deemed immoral by their religious beliefs. By withholding state funding from schools, students’ educational opportunities will be severely limited. And limiting educational opportunities will result in a less diverse, less educated citizenry.

“As a citizen of California and a religious person, I am terribly disappointed in Governor Schwarzenegger,” stated Meredith Turney, Legislative Liaison for Capitol Resource Institute. “It is bad public policy to add to the list of protected classes a sexual behavior. Equating sexual preference with the immutable characteristics of age, national origin or race will result in other variable behaviors being added to the list of invariable classes rightfully protected.”

Forcing private education institutions to accept students engaged in behavior offensive to the school’s moral code is a serious infringement of the constitutional rights to freedom of assembly and freedom of speech.

“This bill is yet another attempt to prevent citizens with moral and religious principles from expressing their beliefs and educating their children according to those beliefs,” continued England. “On behalf of California families, private schools and other private organization, I express our outrage at this attack on our freedom. Unfortunately for California families, there are several other radical homosexual bills heading towards the Governor’s desk.”

Victimhood
 

What is wrong with what I posted earlier where I used your definition:

Go Arnold Go
 

If you notice, the final thing Karen England said was:

"Unfortunately for California families, there are several other radical homosexual bills heading towards the Governor’s desk.”

I can hardly wait.

P.S. I have never understood why the so called Homosexual agenda is anti-family. Can someone explain it to me? Maybe one of my more conservative bretheren. Slave? Penske?

Victimhood
 

I don't think it's much of a definition. I don't think anyone here disagrees with it. What do you think we're arguing about?

Go Arnold Go
 

Islam is to women as Bible Belt Fundamentalism is to homosexuals.

I don't subscribe to the notion that gay-haters have latent sexual confusion. I just think they're the sort of people who want you to think their way.

How great would our world be if the 20 % of people always trying to force others to live by their idea of what's good or best for everyone minded their own motherfucking business?

I am a bigot. If you have a moral agenda you want enforced on anybody else, regardless of their beliefs, I don't want you sitting on the bus with my kids, working near me, drinking from the same water fountains or going to the same theatres. Those people deserve some serious fucking discrimination. It should be written into our Constitution that one must be libertarian on all minor moral issues, such as where another person likes to shove his cock...

Victimhood
 

just a thought. after 5 years of having to write this same basic post to a half dozen different people, it might be time to look in the mirror. no offense.

Victimhood
 

Reid could blow up 1 plane, which is bad, but normal for an average year. you need to be able to show US/UK people to blow up 5 or 6 to cause concern.

Victimhood
 

None taken. In fact, I don't even bother with this response when you've posted.

Victimhood
 

good thinking. I don't read more than 2 sentences in your posts.

Victimhood
 

I said I supported the idea that airport screeners should be allowed to use ethnic and religious profiling when determining how thorough someone's search should be. You said that you wanted me to define profiling which I assumed that depending on the way I defined it, you would agree or not agree with its use. However, I think profiling has an obvious definition and it was that simple definition that I used.

In the end what is really going on is that even though you agree with ethnic and religious profiling, you don't want to admit it, so you are looking for ways to avoid saying that you do.

More crying from the Social Conservatives.......
 

More Social Conservatives get angry at Arnold - Cry me a river........


Let the Governor know your thoughts on his signing SB 1441--His Administration and people at the top level of his campaign read my blog anytime his name is mentioned. If you want to get a message to him, about what you think of his signing this intolerant piece of legislation, send this to your friends--both you and they should write a short message to the Governor on the web site at http://www.capoliticalnews.com/discuss.php?id=669

Also, I will send your messages to the Governors staff and Campaign Manager directly--let them know how this bill affects your support of him.

Bottom Line: When government tells churches and private schools what they are allowed to believe, and if they don't they will be punished, that makes government the official religion of the State. That is not allowed under the United States Constitution.

Capitol Resource Institute sent out the message below, Monday night. The question to me is not what the government demands churches and private schools believe, but that government can control what People of Faith are allowed to do, what moral code they may live by, what churches may teach and what moral codes can be enforced in private schools, etc.

In the reverse, what if government had a law that said no one may allow schools or churches to preach that all lifestyles are equal--don't you think the ACLU would sue on 1st Amendment grounds? In this case, the government is blackmailing People of Faith to believe as government WANTS them to believe, otherwise you will be treated as second class citizens.

This is a bill about religious freedom, and the State of California has failed the test of the First Amendment of the Constitution.

While the issue to some is the demand of government to support a specific moral code, it opens the door to, when majorities change, to oppose that lifestyle. It is not up to government to support or oppose lifestyles, it is to allow the freedoms granted by the Constitution.

Write your thoughts directly on the web site at http://www.capoliticalnews.com/discuss.php?id=669

Forward this message to your complete email list, so they may also let the Governor know how they feel about this.

Steve Frank

Victimhood
 

Thank you for treating me like everyone else.

Victimhood
 

Victimhood
 

You're forgetting two of the most basic rules of statistics. First, in order for statistics to have any meaning, there has to be a correlative relation between the things being measured. Your basic fallacy is that there is a correlation between being Arab and blowing up planes. That is not true. Therefore, any statistical measurement is invalid, proving only that you are a bigoted idiot.

Your second mistake is actually a corrollary of the first. That is the rule that statistics can be manipulated to establish any number of supposed truths, many of which are not true.

All of which leaves us back where we started. You are an asshole for thinking that it is any more proper to search Arabs boarding planes simply because they are Arab, even if they display no other indicator that would rouse suspicion than it is to stop and search Black people in BMWs because everybody knows the colored folks can't afford BMWs unless they're drug dealers, so if they're in the BMW it must be stolen or full of drugs.

Victimhood
 

I doubt you could show that any group blows up 5 or 6 planes a year in any one year, let alone as a pattern.

And, to use your favorite sort of argument, does that mean it's okay if a plane flies into the White House if it's taken over by a white guy, because it's only likely to happen once?

Victimhood
 

a commercial jet will never be hijacked again. everyone will assume it will be crashed anyway and fight to take the plane back. 9/11 ruined it for the normal hijackers:(

caption, please
 

Victimhood
 

If all you're talking about is what the current TSA screeners get to look at to decide whether to take people out of the long line and give them a slightly more intensive search, who cares? I have very little confidence that the current procedures make us safer, although they do manage to impose massive costs on all of us by wasting people's time. The TSA people at the security checkpoints have almost no information to work with. If you want more effective screening, you need to hire smarter people, and more of, and have them question travelers about all sorts of things. In the current system, profiling on the basis of a screener's assessment of someone's ethnic background seems unlikely to make security more effective.

Common Ground
 

At least we can all agree on one thing - the UN is a worthless POS:

caption, please
 

"Thank god I'm standing here playing for you today instead of this other guy"

http://www.insidejoke.tv/images/200411/kerryguitar.jpg

caption, please
 

What I'm wondering is how he lived in Austin all that time without learning to play a G chord properly.

caption, please
 

I've lived in detroit all these years and I don't know the G code.

Iraq's WMD were destroyed in 1998.
 

I've posted about this before, and when I refer to it the conservatives hereabouts are always asking for a cite. I think Gattigap is reading Fiasco, so maybe he can amplify.

Wingnut Hugh Hewitt interviews Fiasco author Thomas Ricks:

• HH: There are a number of very fascinating passages in Fiasco, which is why everyone should read this, and I want to get to them serially, Thomas Ricks. First, I want to get to the WMD question. Any doubt in your mind that George W. Bush and his team and the Pentagon career believed there were WMD there when the war began?
  
  TR: No doubt whatsoever. I think they drank their Kool-Aid, and talked themselves into it, on the basis of no evidence. But yeah, they believed it.
  
  HH: When you write that Operation Desert Fox was tremendously successful, you're concluding that those WMD were there in 1998? Or did Clinton drink the Kool-Aid as well?
  
  TR: Yeah, there were WMD facilities in '98, and they were taken out pretty effectively by those raids. The most effective aspect of the Desert Fox raids, though, which we didn't recognize at the time, it's very difficult to pull out, was the psychological effect. The message sent to Iraqi weapons scientists was Uncle Sam is not going to let Saddam Hussein have this stuff. And their hard work of seven years, after the '91 war, was taken out. It was destroyed.
  
  HH: Can it really be said to be, "drinking the Kool-Aid", as you just said, to conclude that that which had been destroyed in 1998 would immediately be begun to be rebuilt, even as Saddam had begun to rebuild after 1991. Or would it have been prudent, post-9/11, to conclude that Saddam then, as Saddam now, is Saddam always?
  
  TR: Well, that would, but it would be untethered from the realities of Iraq, which was that the country was becoming increasingly poor, weaker, had a less strong military, and that in fact, the '98 Desert Fox raids had almost toppled Saddam Hussein.

Iraq's WMD were destroyed in 1998.
 

you can't be this dense, can you? do you understand the difference between the ability to make the weapons and the weapons themselves? bombing may take out the facilities to make the weapons, but it cannot effectively destroy tons of chemical weapons. Cannot.

Iraq's WMD were destroyed in 1998.
 

The only people who really care about Saddam's chemical weapons, if any, are wingnut conservatives engaging in post hoc rationalization.

Rove's frogmarch hiatus
 

Speaking of post hoc rationalization, you get a load of the bunk being spewed by David Corn these days?

Rove's frogmarch hiatus
 

Sadly, I don't know what you're talking about. I don't read his stuff very much.

Rove's frogmarch hiatus
 

Nevermind then. Ive already wasted far, far too much of my time posting on those jackoffs Wilson and Plame.

Rove's frogmarch hiatus
 

Particularly when the crux of the dispute is about those jackoffs Rove and Libby.

wrong jackoff
 

Armitage.

wrong jackoff
 

I gather that he's involved too, but it's not clear to me that he's a jackoff. Does not change the fact that Rove leaked and Libby (allegedly) lied.