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-   -   A Forum for Grinches and Ho-Ho-Hoes (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=643)

Gattigap 03-11-2005 11:42 AM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
They are, their debtor just went b/k, so they get paid pennies on the dollar, if at all.
I see that Predatory Lending Is Welcome on The Island.

You should sell sponsorship opportunities. You'll be able to save that coconut mik in nifty Citi and Chase mugs.

sgtclub 03-11-2005 11:45 AM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
I see that Predatory Lending Is Welcome on The Island.

You should sell sponsorship opportunities. You'll be able to save that coconut mik in nifty Citi and Chase mugs.
What is "predatory lending."

ltl/fb 03-11-2005 11:45 AM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
They are, their debtor just went b/k, so they get paid pennies on the dollar, if at all.
They have pretty damn sophisticated systems -- they should be able to assess credit risk, given the bankruptcy system, and adjust their offers accordingly.

How do you feel about requiring them to disclose how long it will take to pay off the balance if only minimum payments are made?

Shape Shifter 03-11-2005 11:48 AM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
They are, their debtor just went b/k, so they get paid pennies on the dollar, if at all.
Why should they gain preferential treatment in bankruptcy? Shouldn't this be reflected in the free marketplace, though interest rates and lending decisions?

Gattigap 03-11-2005 11:53 AM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
What is "predatory lending."
Don't worry about it.

When negotiating with Chase for the sponsorship, go for the big canvas banner, and the insulated mugs -- they're the shit. Don't worry about reading the contract -- just sign at the bottom.

bilmore 03-11-2005 11:58 AM

Something was rotten in the state of Ohio.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Short guys cannot get Ftang.
So, you don't need condoms? Cool.

sgtclub 03-11-2005 12:04 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
How do you feel about requiring them to disclose how long it will take to pay off the balance if only minimum payments are made?
I'm not sure it's the government's business.

sgtclub 03-11-2005 12:05 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Why should they gain preferential treatment in bankruptcy? Shouldn't this be reflected in the free marketplace, though interest rates and lending decisions?
Like I said, I didn't read the bill. What type of pref are they getting? They're still unsecured creditors, so their in the back of the line as it is.

sgtclub 03-11-2005 12:06 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Don't worry about it.

When negotiating with Chase for the sponsorship, go for the big canvas banner, and the insulated mugs -- they're the shit. Don't worry about reading the contract -- just sign at the bottom.
I, like most adults, am perfectly capable of assessing my debt exposure limitations.

Gattigap 03-11-2005 12:06 PM

Something was rotten in the state of Ohio.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Short guys cannot get Ftang.
Fortunately for Hank, he has other means by which to compensate:

From Drudge:
  • How could a member of the media who produces adult entertainment for women possibly side with conservatives from the red states? [Playgirl editor-in-chief Michele] Zipp spells it out. “Those on the right are presumed to be all about power and greed – two really sexy traits in the bedroom. They want it, they want it now, and they’ll do anything to get it. And I’m not talking about some pansy-assed victory, I’m talking about full on jackpot, satisfaction for all.”

    “The Democrats of the Sixties were all about making love and not war while a war-loving Republican is a man who would fight, bleed, sacrifice, and die for his country. Could you imagine what that very same man would do for his wife in the bedroom?” asks Zipp.

It's the "fight, bleed, sacrifics and die" line that gets the FTang every goddamned time. Those GOPers -- always one step ahead of us.

bilmore 03-11-2005 12:11 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I, like most adults, am perfectly capable of assessing my debt exposure limitations.
You, unlike many adults, successfully navigated college, and law school, and are among the higher-compensated people on the planet. Credit companies couch their promises in language that you and I can see through. But then, you or I aren't likely to be looking at bankruptcy any time soon.

bilmore 03-11-2005 12:12 PM

Something was rotten in the state of Ohio.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
It's the "fight, bleed, sacrifics and die" line that gets the FTang every goddamned time. Those GOPers -- always one step ahead of us.
That's why we've always won the best women.

ltl/fb 03-11-2005 12:15 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm not sure it's the government's business.
So they shouldn't have to disclose interest rates or payment terms either?

taxwonk 03-11-2005 12:15 PM

Something was rotten in the state of Ohio.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
and extremely Orwellian in the 1984 sense.

Better be careful with the Orwell references or Hank will get all pedantic on you ass and then, well....

Oh wait, you are Hank. I guess it's okay then, because you really know your Orwell.

Gattigap 03-11-2005 12:21 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
So they shouldn't have to disclose interest rates or payment terms either?
Correct. Credit Card companies should have the latitude to disclose any, all, or none of those things, and to determine whether signatures should be made in ink, fingerprints or blood.

Adult consumers of credit will be smart enough to evaluate the different opportunities that the market presents, and reward those vendors who provide the best terms with their patronage.

Those who don't deserve what they get.

Shape Shifter 03-11-2005 12:22 PM

Something was rotten in the state of Ohio.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
Better be careful with the Orwell references or Hank will get all pedantic on you ass and then, well....

Oh wait, you are Hank. I guess it's okay then, because you really know your Orwell.
Unlike spanky, who knew Orwell.

Gattigap 03-11-2005 12:23 PM

Something was rotten in the state of Ohio.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
That's why we've always won the best women.
Plus the power and greed thing. I hear that the combination is an aphrodesiac like no other, though I've only made it so far peddling only the second.

taxwonk 03-11-2005 12:23 PM

Recruiting down
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I saw this satistic earlier today and I'm sort of suprised at how much it bugs me. I'm sort of hoping that the answer to why is "good economy/better jobs" instead of "disenchanted with the country/don't support the war."

Military Update: Black Army recruits down 41 percent since 2000

The article mentions that it's more difficult to track Marines, and it doesn't mention the Air Force or the Navy. I imagine Navy recruiting may be a bit easier, since as far as I know, the Axii of Evil and/or Terror aren't known as naval powers.
According to most studies the DoD has done, the main factor is that we are involved in a state of war. People are less inclined to sign up for the job training and the college money if they aren't as sure they'll survive to reap the benefits.

Other factors are a small increase in the number of stories reporting discrimination in the military, the fact that tours of duty are being extended frequently, and that recruitment overall is down dramatically, so it would follow that minority enlistment would be down as well.

bilmore 03-11-2005 12:26 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Correct. Credit Card companies should have the latitude to disclose any, all, or none of those things, and to determine whether signatures should be made in ink, fingerprints or blood.

Adult consumers of credit will be smart enough to evaluate the different opportunities that the market presents, and reward those vendors who provide the best terms with their patronage.

Those who don't deserve what they get.
So, no interest rate caps, either?

And no meat inspection? Adults can sniff, right?

bilmore 03-11-2005 12:27 PM

Something was rotten in the state of Ohio.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Plus the power and greed thing. I hear that the combination is an aphrodesiac like no other, though I've only made it so far peddling only the second.
No, for an aphrodesiac, all you really need are those "best women" I spoke of.

taxwonk 03-11-2005 12:28 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Now granted, I haven't read the bill, but this statement is absurd:
  • The record number of bankruptcies in America is not the fault of consumers so much as it's the fault of credit companies willing to extend credit to pretty much anyone, independent of their means or station. When I lived in Brooklyn, one of my roommates was unemployed for almost a full year. After six months of unemployment, he did an experiment and saved all the pre-approved credit offers he received. The result: in one month, this unemployed 26-year old was offered almost a hundred thousand dollars in preapproved credit. That the bankruptcy bill does zero to address this corporate malfeasance -- a major and easily-addressed cause of the bankruptcy rate -- is absurd.

Isn't the GOP the party of personal responsibility? To believe this statement, you must believe that the debtors are really the victims. PA-LEASE.
Is your last paragraph responding directly to the passage you quoted, or is it more general?

bilmore 03-11-2005 12:28 PM

Recruiting down
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
According to most studies the DoD has done, the main factor is that we are involved in a state of war. People are less inclined to sign up for the job training and the college money if they aren't as sure they'll survive to reap the benefits.

Other factors are a small increase in the number of stories reporting discrimination in the military, the fact that tours of duty are being extended frequently, and that recruitment overall is down dramatically, so it would follow that minority enlistment would be down as well.
Point was, though, that non-minority enlistment wasn't down nearly as much as minority enlistment.

taxwonk 03-11-2005 12:32 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I'm not sure it's the government's business.
As opposed to the rest of the banking and credit system?

ltl/fb 03-11-2005 12:35 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
So, no interest rate caps, either?

And no meat inspection? Adults can sniff, right?
Exactamundo, libertarian boy. In fact, the FDA is right out. Adults can read clinical trials, and evaluate whether the methods were satisfactory and whether or not the company is lying. I mean, you (or your surviving family) can always sue after the fact.

Shape Shifter 03-11-2005 12:36 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Exactamundo, libertarian boy. In fact, the FDA is right out. Adults can read clinical trials, and evaluate whether the methods were satisfactory and whether or not the company is lying. I mean, you (or your surviving family) can always sue after the fact.
As long as it gets the Government's hands off his meat.

taxwonk 03-11-2005 12:36 PM

Recruiting down
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Point was, though, that non-minority enlistment wasn't down nearly as much as minority enlistment.
I realize that. I was counting on not having to point out that among minorities, the Army provided one of the better sources of job training and college funding available. Thus, one would expect a greater porportionate dropoff. The fact that the minorities are the largest source of enlistments in recent years would act as a multiplier when enlistment drops off.

ltl/fb 03-11-2005 12:38 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
As long as it gets the Government's hands off his meat.
Mmmmmmmmmeat.

What was the book about slaughterhouses?

Did you just call me Coltrane? 03-11-2005 12:39 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I, like most adults, am perfectly capable of assessing my debt exposure limitations.
Wasn't there a study that claimed that half of all personal bankruptcies are caused by medical debt?

I'm all for personal responsibility, but no way should I have had a credit card as a freshman in college.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 03-11-2005 12:41 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore

And no meat inspection? Adults can sniff, right?
The dual mission statement of the USDA negates any belief that meat inspections are legit. You should sniff.

Hank Chinaski 03-11-2005 12:41 PM

Something was rotten in the state of Ohio.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
Better be careful with the Orwell references or Hank will get all pedantic on you ass and then, well....

Oh wait, you are Hank. I guess it's okay then, because you really know your Orwell.
Orwellian in the 1984 sense (as I used it) is descriptive- Orwellian w/o limitation is not.

Replaced_Texan 03-11-2005 12:42 PM

Something was rotten in the state of Ohio.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
No, for an aphrodesiac, all you really need are those "best women" I spoke of.
I'm screwed. No money, no power, no interest in those "best women."

ltl/fb 03-11-2005 12:45 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
Wasn't there a study that claimed that half of all personal bankruptcies are caused by medical debt?
And, many of the current reorg bankruptcies end up as discharge bankruptcies because the debtor can't make payments. So expanding the poorer end of reorg bankruptcies isn't likely to fix anything really, although I think that one could make quite a killing in the debt counseling area now, as that is mandatory under the new law (hey club -- they have added regulatory requirements -- isn't that bad?). Maybe I will set up a business. Or, this could be how Sebby finally makes it out of law.

bilmore 03-11-2005 12:46 PM

Something was rotten in the state of Ohio.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I'm screwed. No money, no power, no interest in those "best women."
Aren't those contradictory sentences?

Did you just call me Coltrane? 03-11-2005 12:49 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
And, many of the current reorg bankruptcies end up as discharge bankruptcies because the debtor can't make payments. So expanding the poorer end of reorg bankruptcies isn't likely to fix anything really, although I think that one could make quite a killing in the debt counseling area now, as that is mandatory under the new law (hey club -- they have added regulatory requirements -- isn't that bad?). Maybe I will set up a business. Or, this could be how Sebby finally makes it out of law.
A Chapter 7 Panel bankruptcy trustee aquaintance of mine no likey this bill. And he's voted republican for the past 30 years.

Shape Shifter 03-11-2005 12:51 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
Wasn't there a study that claimed that half of all personal bankruptcies are caused by medical debt?
The study is here. To the extent that there is a bankruptcy "crisis," I suspect it is inextricably linked to the healthcare crisis. Take it away, RT.

ltl/fb 03-11-2005 12:51 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
A US bankruptcy trustee aquaintance of mine no likey this bill. And he's voted republican for the past 30 years.
Yeah, but he hasn't run R, so no campaign contributions.

ETA it is absolutely linked to the healthcare stuff. If only these people would take better care of their health, they wouldn't have these problems. This would include, you know, going to live in the non-urban desert if the kids have asthma, and paying tolls for the long drive to work.

Not Bob 03-11-2005 12:53 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
So, no interest rate caps, either?

And no meat inspection? Adults can sniff, right?
Exactly. Freedom of contract, and all that. The market will reward those who sell good meat, poutry, etc., and punish those who don't -- a sound spanking by Adam Smith's invisible hand, if you will.

And I've always wondered -- who is the state to say how many hours children can work a week, or how old they have to be? That's what parents are for.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 03-11-2005 12:53 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
The study is here. To the extent that there is a bankruptcy "crisis," I suspect it is inextricably linked to the healthcare crisis. Take it away, RT.
And then there's the faux med-mal crisis. Again, RT, take it away.

Tyrone Slothrop 03-11-2005 12:53 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I, like most adults, am perfectly capable of assessing my debt exposure limitations.
I hope you're also capable of avoiding major medical problems. Because notwithstanding the suggestion that bankruptcy is all about people who spend too much with their credit cards, more than half of bankruptcies follow medical emergencies.
  • In 2001, 1.458 million American families filed for bankruptcy. To investigate medical contributors to bankruptcy, we surveyed 1,771 personal bankruptcy filers in five federal courts and subsequently completed in-depth interviews with 931 of them. About half cited medical causes, which indicates that 1.9–2.2 million Americans (filers plus dependents) experienced medical bankruptcy. Among those whose illnesses led to bankruptcy, out-of-pocket costs averaged $11,854 since the start of illness; 75.7 percent had insurance at the onset of illness. Medical debtors were 42 percent more likely than other debtors to experience lapses in coverage. Even middle-class insured families often fall prey to financial catastrophe when sick.

That's the abstract of this study. But fuck 'em, right?

eta: stp

ltl/fb 03-11-2005 12:56 PM

bad bill. very bad bill
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I hope you're also capable of avoiding major medical problems. Because notwithstanding the suggestion that bankruptcy is all about people who spend too much with their credit cards, more than half of bankruptcies follow medical emergencies.
  • In 2001, 1.458 million American families filed for bankruptcy. To investigate medical contributors to bankruptcy, we surveyed 1,771 personal bankruptcy filers in five federal courts and subsequently completed in-depth interviews with 931 of them. About half cited medical causes, which indicates that 1.9–2.2 million Americans (filers plus dependents) experienced medical bankruptcy. Among those whose illnesses led to bankruptcy, out-of-pocket costs averaged $11,854 since the start of illness; 75.7 percent had insurance at the onset of illness. Medical debtors were 42 percent more likely than other debtors to experience lapses in coverage. Even middle-class insured families often fall prey to financial catastrophe when sick.
That's the abstract of this study. But fuck 'em, right?
He has health insurance -- and even a $5,000 stop-loss wouldn't really inconvenience him (unlike, say, someone who makes $30,000 or even $50,000 a year). Unless he got really, really sick and couldn't work, and Unum cut off his disability payments after a couple years. But no one ever thinks they will get disabled.


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