A blast from the past.
 

Guilty by association, eh?

No wonder your view of Democrats is shaped by what you see on the "HC DU."

A blast from the past.
 

I agree with this, and would add that it was also anti-Washington.

A blast from the past.
 

How come we all have to be guilty by association but he gets to yap about how he's an atheist so all the religious right bullshit can't be thrown at him? Why, gatti, why?

Does This Resonate?
 

Operational wisdom, not basic morality, although many religions hold that suicide is a sin.

S_A_M

P.S. If we're to start judging our policy initiatives according to their basic morality, we're going to need a whole new set of political metrics -- and it would be helpful to agree on a common morality.

A blast from the past.
 

The language of "left" and "right" really doesn't work that well when you start talking about foreign affairs.

You forgot to mention that he's pro-gun, too. But now you're not making a point about Dean -- you're back to characterizing the DU folks. Hank is the only other person here who seems to care about what they're thinking.

Does This Resonate?
 

You're fighting the analogy.

They most assuredly had a very good reason to jump. (And Butch did not tell Sundance that the water would surely be deep enough to cushion their fall, or that the fish would bear them above the waves in triumphant splendor after they surfaced.)

S_A_M

Does This Resonate?
 

They don't live in a "democracy" yet, unless you're taking extreme liberties with that word. Maybe it will all work out in the end, but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Oddly enough, you don't see many other Arabs clamoring for their country to look more like Iraq. Which suggests that if this was the first step, the journey may be a thousand miles long, and it may be Maoists (or their functional equivalent) who end up telling the story.

Does This Resonate?
 

Do you think the reason is because they live in TOTALITARIAN SOCIETIES?

Freedom Isn't Free
 

Cool. Are we invading Saudi Arabia next?

Does This Resonate?
 

I already said I was down with the post hoc reasons for the invasion. Deposing mass killers is a good thing.

I sure hope so.

I don't know where you get the bitter bit from - I was responding to a post by Club that suggested that everyone who opposed the war from the beginning is now saying "golly gee, all's well that ends well and that Bush guy was right all along."

As for my "core values," if an expectation that the government isn't going to railroad us into a war on false pretenses is scary, well .... boo!

I'll tell you what's scary: a belief that the ends justify the means. By the way, what's the minimum acceptable ratio of Iraqis we killed to Iraqis who voted on Sunday?

Does This Resonate?
 

I don't think that most Arab countries are totalitarian, as oppressive and unfree as they may be. And no -- I think the reason is that notwithstanding the vote that took place on Sunday, what Iraq looks like now is not what most people want their countries to look like.

Does This Resonate?
 

Odd that many Republicans did not support our military activities to stop genocide in the Balkans. Many of the people who are now insisting that deposing Hussein was a necessary and sufficient reason to invade Iraq opposed Clinton's efforts to stop Milosevic. And, with a few exceptions, they don't seem to want to get involved in stopping what Sudan is doing in Darfur, either. Or deposing Robert Mugabe. Or the junta that rules Myanmar.

Does This Resonate?
 

Sometimes it takes about 20 years to see the truth in a statement like this.



http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB...ndshake300.jpg

Does This Resonate?
 

Do you mean as a normative statement, or "in this case"? I mean, I think our entry into WWII was a case where the ends did justify the means. We killed a whole helluva lot of people - but was that an evil thing? Or, would NOT participating have been the evil? How far do you carry non-violence? Simply watch the kid get beaten up across the street, or cross over and use violence to save him? Sometimes, the ends DO justify the means.

We'll have to ask the Iraqis that question, won't we? So far, from the polling I've seen, they think we're still in that acceptable range.

A blast from the past.
 

you're the party of inclusion. we admit we hate others.