Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 532553)

Yeah, we have a new outbreak. Half my hallway is now out with Covid. I'm not going near the place for while.

This was completely foreseeable, but I guess the country has just given up on fighting it for the time being. Maybe once deaths hit 2 million.

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 532554)

It's actually funny at my place. Despite making a billion dollars saying companies didn't do enough to protect workers, we got the whole place running around without masks during a pandemic. And this was prevaccine.

In December, I had a conversation with one coworker for 5 minutes, em unmasked at em's desk, me masked at em's office door. The firm was planning a "Covid is over" dinner the next night but I had zero plans on attending that germ fest.

The next morning, I get an email from my boss that they were canceling in abundance of caution re Omicron. I said to myself "Wow, is the firm actually being proactive?" Just when I was thinking, "hey wait a minute" I got a call from the coworker saying "I tested positive." I guess my K95 saved my ass because I didn't. And OBTW later learned quite a few tested positive. So much for abundance of caution.

Fast forward a month and I am in my office when same coworker comes in without a mask and asks me "Oh, do you want me to put on a mask?" and I responded, "No, I want you to get the fuck out."

We meet with terminal cancer patients on a regular basis. What the fuck are these people thinking?

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 532555)

You guys should sue yourselves.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 532555)

You guys should sue yourselves.

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 532551)

Jesus, man. We're past the shortages. You should be wearing N95 or KN95 masks.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 532552)

I'd cross the room to avoid you if you were heading my way.

Gaters? Cloth? You like to send that "I do stuff half-assed" vibe, do you?

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 532553)

Yeah, we have a new outbreak. Half my hallway is now out with Covid. I'm not going near the place for while.

This was completely foreseeable, but I guess the country has just given up on fighting it for the time being. Maybe once deaths hit 2 million.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 532553)

Maybe once deaths hit 2 million.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532558)

YMMV, but in this state, even in the biggest buildings in its biggest cities, all people are wearing are those blue surgical masks. Which are utterly useless.

It's been that way for a while now.

Some buildings recently had a policy requiring masks only on the first floor. Some had a policy requiring them only on floors two and above. I'm serious. How fucking nuts is that?

They're all pretty much mask free at this point.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532558)

YMMV, but in this state, even in the biggest buildings in its biggest cities, all people are wearing are those blue surgical masks. Which are utterly useless.

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 532561)

The one shred of good news, is that they may never.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 532563)

I think a lot of you all are wrong about this. My wife wears a surgical mask at a hospital every day. They're not useless. They're not as much protection as a KN95 for the wearer, but I think the point is that if everyone is wearing one, then even infected people are not spreading the virus effectively.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532559)

Compared to people walking around in those useless surgical masks, I was diligent. A ski gater is a pretty well layered item.

I also took exceptional pains not to get close to any of my older relatives or immunocompromised acquaintances. The way I saw it, Covid allowed me to punt on almost any social commitment and convert in-person things to remote, And I Did.

I kind of miss it now. The "Covid Tribe" of close friends who all agreed to be diligent and trusted each other led to lots of engagements where small talk was unnecessary. You could have more in depth conversations and often it was outside, dressed in a pullover, sipping whisky in a plastic cup, or in shorts, with a gin and tonic. Now I'm back to small talk land. Crowded soirees peppered more with acquaintances than close friends. What's called "normal."

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 532562)

Our office went to "mask optional" and I was shocked how many people took them off. Nope, still wearing a mask indoors and around people.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 532563)

I think a lot of you all are wrong about this. My wife wears a surgical mask at a hospital every day. They're not useless. They're not as much protection as a KN95 for the wearer, but I think the point is that if everyone is wearing one, then even infected people are not spreading the virus effectively.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 532563)

I think a lot of you all are wrong about this. My wife wears a surgical mask at a hospital every day. They're not useless. They're not as much protection as a KN95 for the wearer, but I think the point is that if everyone is wearing one, then even infected people are not spreading the virus effectively.

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 532566)

Shakes head, gives up.

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 532569)

Does everyone wear one?

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532570)

This is a sincere question:

When everyone around you is living like Covid is in the rear view mirror, which they are (hence reinstatements of mandates), what is one to do? Wearing a mask in a restaurant full of people without them is pointless. And what of meetings? I’ve been careful to ask about mask protocol when meeting older people (70s/80s) only to have them advise they’d already had it and been vaxxed and didn’t care.

Should one turn down social engagements? Turn down business entertainment?

Whose level of vigilance is controlling? Whose should be the standard? Surely, one cannot say we should act like it’s March 2020 all over again. And yet, it’s hard not to translate a lot of tsk tsk’ing as demanding exactly that.

I’ve danced with this disease twice and been vaxxed and boosted. Perhaps my choice of mask was lacking. But now, when in the grocery store where I’d be one of maybe 3-5% of people still masking, am I still duty bound to mask up?

It is not a heresy to say that when in Rome, one might as well do as in Rome. And to say that Covid cannot continue to define us, control us, to the extent it has. These are reasonable and eminently defensible propositions.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532570)

This is a sincere question:

When everyone around you is living like Covid is in the rear view mirror, which they are (hence reinstatements of mandates), what is one to do? Wearing a mask in a restaurant full of people without them is pointless. And what of meetings? I’ve been careful to ask about mask protocol when meeting older people (70s/80s) only to have them advise they’d already had it and been vaxxed and didn’t care.

Should one turn down social engagements? Turn down business entertainment?

Whose level of vigilance is controlling? Whose should be the standard? Surely, one cannot say we should act like it’s March 2020 all over again. And yet, it’s hard not to translate a lot of tsk tsk’ing as demanding exactly that.

I’ve danced with this disease twice and been vaxxed and boosted. Perhaps my choice of mask was lacking. But now, when in the grocery store where I’d be one of maybe 3-5% of people still masking, am I still duty bound to mask up?

It is not a heresy to say that when in Rome, one might as well do as in Rome. And to say that Covid cannot continue to define us, control us, to the extent it has. These are reasonable and eminently defensible propositions.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 532571)

At her hospital, yes.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 532571)

At her hospital, yes.

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 532575)

It was a rhetorical question but that's when surgical masks work, when all wear. Alone, in an office of unmasked mutants -- not so much. Team KN95 for now.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 532572)

There are a lot of people around me these days not wearing masks. I'm not going to try to change their behavior, but I'm also going to keep wearing a mask. That doesn't mean Covid is controlling me. It means I don't want to get sick, and I don't want to make my wife sick.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532578)

And I can't be so selective in where I go. I have a meeting with 10 people next week. The conference room will be crowded. But I can't punt on this one. And there's no point in masking where I know I'll be alone. I have to keep the lights on, and this is not a meeting I can skip.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532578)

Totally agree. If I know someone is ill or they desire me to wear a mask, I'm happy to do so. If everyone in a building is wearing masks, I'll do what they're doing as it seems polite as well.



It's not following a crowd because I blindly follow. If anything is known of my personality at this point it's that I'm allergic to herd behavior. But in this case, if the herd isn't masking, there isn't a whole lotta point in my bucking the trend. I am not worried about getting my spouse sick or getting sick myself. Ty's cost/benefit doesn't apply.



This is simply not realistic for me or most people. Everywhere I go, most people are walking around sans masks. And I can't be so selective in where I go. I have a meeting with 10 people next week. The conference room will be crowded. But I can't punt on this one. And there's no point in masking where I know I'll be alone. I have to keep the lights on, and this is not a meeting I can skip.



I don't think either is terribly useful.



I knew I should not have used that term. As it becomes endemic, and it is (unless China births some mutant variant at this late stage because of their moronic Zero Covid policy), it is or soon will be time to start looking at Covid like we look at other viruses. The reaction needs to meet the risk. If the variants continue to weaken, vigilance can be appropriately relaxed.

Yes, they may be more widely transmitted and this creates what looks like a significant uptick in deaths. But it's actually just the virus doing what it inevitably will do - cycle through almost every living thing. And as it does, as it has, it will turn into what viruses that survive must - a thing that does not kill its host. We'll live with it. And I think the first step toward living with it is recognizing the steep drop in risk accruing from Covid.

It's not heresy to shrug at Omicron. I had it and it was nothing. I can say that, factually. It's not heresy to claim that we're coming through the other side of this thing, that the finish line is very close.

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 532579)

Watch me. I’m already rubbing maskless coworkers the wrong way by telling them to take the next elevator.

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 532578)

(unless China births some mutant variant at this late stage because of their moronic Zero Covid policy)

Originally Posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone (Post 532583)

Here in extremely blue Portland, people followed mask mandates pretty consistently. But it's changed a lot since the statewide mandate was lifted. The day after the mandate ended, the grocery store was still 90% masked. Now it's more like 10%. Nobody is harassing the still-masked, but it's a minority.

Except maybe for punk rock. I went to a Bob Mould solo electric show last night. Bob decided to ask for masks, and everyone complied, including pulling the mask back up between sips.

Hey Icky, did you ever share a bill with Husker Du back in the day?

Ollie

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 532584)

I saw Los Lobos last weekend. They are old now.

Originally Posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone (Post 532585)

One of my favorite live bands ever. They seem to have gotten grittier/bluesier as they got, indeed, old.

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 532584)

I saw Los Lobos last weekend. They are old now.

Originally Posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone (Post 532583)

Here in extremely blue Portland, people followed mask mandates pretty consistently. But it's changed a lot since the statewide mandate was lifted. The day after the mandate ended, the grocery store was still 90% masked. Now it's more like 10%. Nobody is harassing the still-masked, but it's a minority.

Except maybe for punk rock. I went to a Bob Mould solo electric show last night. Bob decided to ask for masks, and everyone complied, including pulling the mask back up between sips.

Hey Icky, did you ever share a bill with Husker Du back in the day?

Ollie

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 532581)

One hopes as now somewhat aged lawyers we generally have the ability to set our own way. We certainly do compared to 95% of the country.

When the announcement came around from the firm that our mask policy was rescinded, it included a statement that everyone should still be sensitive to people who continued to mask and that many would be doing so because they were immunocompromised. I sent around a "reply to all" email immediately noting that I would appreciate everyone coming into my office to be masked and noting my position, and I got a lot of thank yous from staff in the office who felt pressure to demask.

If we can't stand up and do our own thing at this point in our careers, what the fuck have we been doing?

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 532582)

One of the few places in the world that has done what is necessary and this is what people think. Unbelievable.

Criticize their crappy vaccine if you want to find fault, but it wouldn't be becoming endemic if the rest of the world had handled it as well as China.



That's not how science works.

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 532588)

Never crossed paths with them but I replaced Greg in a post-Husker du venture for a while.

Originally Posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone (Post 532591)

Did they make you grow a handlebar mustache?

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 532592)

My mustache has always come in half red half brown so that ain't gonna happen.