LawTalkers - Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck.

Originally posted by taxwonk
What's sleazy about pointing out that your own running mate has a significant philosophical disagreement with a part of your campaign?

Yeah, it can be defended on a surface level.

But you know better.

So did these NYT focusees:

October 14, 2004
THE VOTERS
After the Final Debate, Some Voters Are Still Sitting on the Fence
By JODI WILGOREN

EST BRANCH, Iowa, Oct. 13 - Forget his health care plan. Forget abortion and embryonic stem cell research. Forget even how many times he did or did not vote to raise taxes. Senator John Kerry may have lost three critical votes with a simple aside, when he invoked Vice President Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter as part of an answer on same-sex marriage.

"That is very unfair," blurted Patsey Farrell, 64, one of a handful of undecided voters gathered here to watch the final presidential debate Wednesday night. "I'm sorry, that's too personal. That's too hurtful."

Her son-in-law, Kevin Uhde, the 50-year-old elementary school principal who held this pizza party, agreed. "Not by name," he said, shaking his head at Mr. Kerry on the 24-inch Phillips television set a few yards away. "Why single out one person?"

And Mr. Uhde's wife, Karlen, added, "I think it's like a low blow."

More

Sidd Finch

10-14-2004 12:45 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
No one here is objective.

Board motto.

Sidd Finch

10-14-2004 12:47 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Me
That is because you are thinking about it from a man's perspective. You are only thinking about how it reflects on him. I would cringe if I had more money than my husband and he made a joke like that. Part of the joke is that he married her for her money. While a man might not mind if his wife teased about marrying him for his money (because men are unfortunately valued in this society by how much wealth they amass), a woman would mind if her husband teased about that.

etft -- t.s.

Yeah, I'm sure Teresa has never heard Kerry* joke about that.

*learn to spell his name, moron

dtb	10-14-2004 12:47 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
But Kerry's wife is a hag, both looks and personality. He only married "up" one way. $$$$$$$$$

And that's what really matters -- whether or not she's a "hag". :rolleyes:

And now... for your reading pleasure... an excerpt from "Sisters" by Lynn Cheney:

Click here for an account of lesbian adventures in the Old West!!

Sidd Finch

10-14-2004 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Question for SocSec experts:

Conventional wisdom (which is about the sum of my SS knowledge) holds that SS is rapidly going bankrupt, in dire straits, etc.

Kevin Drum keeps saying it's actually in fine shape and just needs a little tweaking.

??

I'm not an expert, so I have onnly questions and not answers.

How does he define "a little tweaking"? Every time anyone talks about, say, increasing the retirement age by 2 years, the elderly and near-elderly throw a hissy fit.

Does he assume that the government IOUs held by social security are worth anything? I believe that makes a significant difference, but am not sure. I operate on the assumption that I will get 0 from Social Security, and hope only that, if and when the time for tough choices arises, the choice is not to triple my taxes in order to pay for the retirement of the Baby Boomers.

dtb	10-14-2004 12:50 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
The daughter is not running for anything, and deserves to have what privacy she can keep, if she wants.

You mean the way Chelsea Clinton was deserving of her privacy? You mean the way Teresa Heinz Kerry is deserving of her privacy? Oh, it only works one way? I see.

bilmore

10-14-2004 12:51 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by dtb
You mean the way Chelsea Clinton was deserving of her privacy? You mean the way Teresa Heinz Kerry is deserving of her privacy? Oh, it only works one way? I see.

Wow. You really hate lesbians, don't you?

dtb	10-14-2004 12:53 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Wow. You really hate lesbians, don't you?

No. But evidently, you do.

Replaced_Texan

10-14-2004 12:58 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
The daughter is not running for anything, and deserves to have what privacy she can keep, if she wants.

If the "point" is what you say, Kerry could say that "Cheney disagrees with you, Mr. Bush, we saw that in the VP debate."

Why does the girl need to be mentioned at all? I'm going with bilmore's reason.

I agree. The only reason to bring her name up specifically is to remind the God Hates Fags crowd that there's an unholy association with the Bush administration. Frankly, I think she humanizes Cheney a bit, and it doesn't do the Dems much good to remind people that Dick Cheney might have a bit of blood running along the ice water in his veins.

taxwonk

10-14-2004 01:00 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

I would definitely be in agreement with you if she weren't working for the campaign. I think that somehow requires her to share a portion of the public figure burden. If she weren't campaigning I would agree with you and Bilmore entirely.

Hank Chinaski

10-14-2004 01:03 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by dtb
You mean the way Chelsea Clinton was deserving of her privacy? You mean the way Teresa Heinz Kerry is deserving of her privacy? Oh, it only works one way? I see.

back in '96 Penske was working as an unpaid intern for Dole. He proposed a debate answer that accused Clinton of bringing demon seed into this world. It didn't, however, make the final cut.

Chelsea got the same treatment the Bush girls get, They all have pluses and minuses. None of them are proper debate topics or answers.

taxwonk

10-14-2004 01:05 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Yeah, it can be defended on a surface level.

But you know better.

So did these NYT focusees:

October 14, 2004
THE VOTERS
After the Final Debate, Some Voters Are Still Sitting on the Fence
By JODI WILGOREN

EST BRANCH, Iowa, Oct. 13 - Forget his health care plan. Forget abortion and embryonic stem cell research. Forget even how many times he did or did not vote to raise taxes. Senator John Kerry may have lost three critical votes with a simple aside, when he invoked Vice President Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter as part of an answer on same-sex marriage.

"That is very unfair," blurted Patsey Farrell, 64, one of a handful of undecided voters gathered here to watch the final presidential debate Wednesday night. "I'm sorry, that's too personal. That's too hurtful."

Her son-in-law, Kevin Uhde, the 50-year-old elementary school principal who held this pizza party, agreed. "Not by name," he said, shaking his head at Mr. Kerry on the 24-inch Phillips television set a few yards away. "Why single out one person?"

And Mr. Uhde's wife, Karlen, added, "I think it's like a low blow."

More

I would agree with you completely if she weren't actively involved with the campaign. I think that makes a difference. But I concede it is a close call.

bilmore

10-14-2004 01:06 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by dtb
No. But evidently, you do.

Actually, no. I just think that our society still isn't in a place yet where you can raise the issue like Kerry did for anything other than a snarky, bad-faith reason. Similarly, I feel a lot of contempt for the people doing the involuntary-outing thing for political gain. I thought the treatment of Chelsea was horrible, but I think Kerry's crap was even worse.

Replaced_Texan

10-14-2004 01:09 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
I would definitely be in agreement with you if she weren't working for the campaign. I think that somehow requires her to share a portion of the public figure burden. If she weren't campaigning I would agree with you and Bilmore entirely.

To some extent you're right, and certainly the B/C04 campaign has been quick to draw attention to George P. Bush's being (and looking) Hispanic. But the Mary Cheney thing sort of stings of John McCain's "black child" in my mind. While the McCain whisper smear was untrue, the intent was to get voters not to vote for him based on their own prejudices.

Also this is disturbing. I was searching for a reference to the South Carolina whisper campaign and this ended up in the serch results:

Quote:

Black Children on eBay Find black children items at low prices. With over 5 million items for sale every day, you'll find all kinds of unique things on eBay - the World's Online Marketplace.
www.ebay.com

dtb	10-14-2004 01:15 PM

Is it Just Me

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
back in '96 Penske was working as an unpaid intern for Dole. He proposed a debate answer that accused Clinton of bringing demon seed into this world. It didn't, however, make the final cut.

Chelsea got the same treatment the Bush girls get, They all have pluses and minuses. None of them are proper debate topics or answers.

Hmmmm. I don't hear you complaining too loudly about Chelsea's treatment by Rush Limbaugh and his ilk, and you even piled on yourself with the comment of THK's being a "hag". THK is not running for anything either.

The reason it's relevant is that gay marriage is a hot button in this campaign; just as having a retarded child might be relevant if "retarded" issues (I'm not saying that artfully, but I know you know what I mean) were at issue in a campaign. Why would anyone who doesn't think it an "insult" to call someone a lesbian think that mentioning it was a "low blow"? There doesn't seem to be any outrage regarding mentioning one's family in the debate context ("he's a good dad" etc.).

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