Farm subsidies and the KKK
 

I despise Byrd, and am not "rushing to his defense."

Last week, I noted that Helms continues to insist in his new autobio that segregation was a good and wonderful thing that would have ended naturally, due to the inherent goodness of southern white folk, if only those uppity niggras and jew activists had gotten involved. Club responded that Helms must have learned that from Byrd. This week, Byrd came out, and at least admitted that joining the KKK was "a mistake." Not evil, but a "mistake" (sort of like the Pope's view on being a Nazi, but whatever).

Cue the Wahhabi Repubs to explain how Dems are all racist because Lincoln freed the slaves.

Farm subsidies and the KKK
 

You have redeemed my once and former crush on you. Carry on.

Farm subsidies and the KKK
 

The Bible tells us, "Vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord" and it is my understanding that Koresh was the second coming (which thought I respect as equally valid as the other religion of peace and tolerance, Islam, because everything is morally relative), and thus Koresh was exercising his dad's vengeance proxy, no?

Farm subsidies and the KKK
 

the difference is I shave my legs and bikini line, Ann is au natural (or so Slave told me).

Farm subsidies and the KKK
 

But the Bible says, render unto the ATF the things that are the ATF's. Plus, I'm pretty sure that the Bible passage you have in mind only applies to tall, suave, black men.

Farm subsidies and the KKK
 

I missed this, can I get the cite to where he actually used the words "uppity niggras and jew activists" in a modern setting?


And you still fail to respond how as to how that apology for a single action means anything in light of a subsequent documented twenty-five year history of racist speech and action. My posit is that it is a meaningless sop and that the people his people (and by association him) lynched should not be bamboozled by this.

By implication you tried to tag all Repubs as racist by virtue of southern republicans lack of support for the civil rights act (and subsequent republican presidential candidates exploitation of that position for electoral gain). I responded in like kind. Why is one criticism any more legitimate than the other?

So how come it was only Southern Republicans who wanted to duck the voice vote on the lynching apology?

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

They weren't doing the lynching, the Byrds of the world were. those guys have a lot to apolgize for.

Kennedy was probably thinking about Mj Kopechne, Marilyn and all of the women his nephews and/or cousin-in-laws have raped and/or murdered (allegedly) when he cast his vote. there is a lot to atone for in the democratic leadership.

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

You think so, huh?

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

If you can find me a photoshopped picture of Helms in sheets , I would stipulate to a moral relativity between the two.

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

How odd, then, that Senators Inouye (Hawaii), Baucus (Montana) and Obama (Illinois) (for example) were OK with a roll call vote on the apology, but your Southern Republicans didn't want to go on the record.

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

Touché.

eta: i said phottoshopped, that pic looks legit!

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

BTW, how is the Senate allowed to do anything these days, with all the so-called "filibusters" going on?

I thought the whole point of the filibuster was to halt all other Senate business?

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

I'm pretty sure that James Byrd was the one that was lynched only a few years ago. Neither of the Senators from his state (Texas) signed on to the apology.

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

Bilmore's law school graduation photo shouldn't count.

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

Guilty consciences? I can only imagine the skeletons any democrat harbours in his or her respective closet.

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

What was the apology for? The Senate would apologize that the Klan lynched black people?

I'm afraid I'll have to agree with this IRon guy sock, then the apology should come from Mr. Byrd and any others that can be proven up as having worn the robes.

And we are off.....
 

Look for it in the fiction section, since the author just made shit up to fit his smear job:

• Smears and Lies: Klein on Clinton
  by Maura Moynihan
  
  It is sorry proof of the national decline of standards and the perversion of priorities that Senator Hillary Clinton isn’t getting coverage in Vanity Fair magazine—a New York–based publication—for her work in the U.S. Senate. Rather, the magazine’s editors have decided that it is more newsworthy and relevant to excerpt a tawdry new book that hits a new low in Hillary-bashing.
  
  Ed Klein, author of the book in question, The Truth About Hillary, alleges that New York’s late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan "despised" Mrs. Clinton, that he once hid in a cloakroom to terminate a conversation with her. Nonsense. I think I know Senator Moynihan better than Mr. Klein, because he was my father. Mr. Klein also claims firsthand knowledge of a meeting between my parents and Mrs. Clinton that took place in their apartment in Washington. It was during this meeting that Mrs. Clinton, then the nation’s First Lady, discussed the idea of running for the seat my father was about to vacate.
  
  Mr. Klein puts quotes around statements that were never uttered. I can confirm this because the only other persons present during this meeting were myself and our Tibetan cook, who speaks about 10 words of English. Mr. Klein has now gone on the record to say that he spent "several hours interviewing Mrs. Moynihan." Puzzling indeed, in that Mrs. Moynihan—my mother—hasn’t seen Mr. Klein in over 20 years. I’d like to see the transcripts or hear the tapes of his on-the-record talks with Mrs. Moynihan. And it would have been difficult for him to interview Senator Moynihan, because he’s dead.
  
  Mr. Klein has an established record of slandering Democrats and using dead people as sources: Remember his book about John F. Kennedy Jr. and Carolyn Bessette—New Yorkers and private citizens—also excerpted in Vanity Fair? If Mrs. Clinton were merely a movie star, one could shrug off the Klein book as tabloid trash, but she is the junior Senator from New York and former First Lady of the United States of America. So when national publications offer legitimacy to smear artists who attack our elected officials, the consequences are real, as it further degrades the profession of journalism and injures our public servants and the institutions they serve.
  
  Mr. Klein’s mission here isn’t "reporting"; it’s an attempt to sever Senator Clinton from her predecessor and colleague, Senator Moynihan, and to delegitimize her political career. The book also is a swipe at our deceased senior Senator. Daniel Patrick Moynihan worked with thousands of people in his 50-year career in public service—in academia, diplomacy, the Congress, journalism—who can attest to his extraordinarily high ethical standards, his respect for protocol, his disdain for the low blow. Senator Robert Dole wrote: "Pat Moynihan never had an unkind word about any of his colleagues on either side of the aisle. In Washington that says enough about his remarkable character." If Senator Moynihan had a problem with you, he said it to your face. His few disagreements with the Clintons were always about policy and are clearly stated in the Congressional Record for the world to see. As for the claim that Senator Moynihan "despised" Mrs. Clinton, to my knowledge the only person my father actively despised was Josef Stalin.
  
  As Mr. Klein wrote this book with a specific agenda, he failed to research the friendship and intellectual discourse sustained by my father and Mrs. Clinton for over a decade. In the early 1990’s, Senator Moynihan asked to read Mrs. Clinton’s Wellesley senior thesis about Saul Alinsky and gave her an A. President Clinton honored Senator Moynihan with the Medal of Freedom. We dined at the Clinton White House regularly and stood side by side with the Clintons when the First Lady was elected to the Senate in 2000. None of this is reported in Vanity Fair, because it doesn’t fit the program.
  
  As Senator Moynihan famously said, "Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts." New Yorkers are weary of the incessant Clinton-bashing that the national media seemingly never tires of. We have seen Senator Clinton become a powerful legislator, orator and advocate for New York. She travels from Buffalo to Montauk, listening to her constituents, and then she goes back to Washington to fight for them.
  
  She has endured years of personal attacks on herself and her family, and has somehow managed to bear herself with dignity and grace throughout. A lesser person would have abandoned politics and retired to the Gulf of Siam years ago. Fabricating stories about Mrs. Clinton’s relationship with Senator Moynihan is an offense to New Yorkers, an insult to my deceased father and a sad commentary on the state of "journalism." Let the woman do her work, for God’s sake, and if you want to know what Senator Moynihan said or thought about anything, visit his papers in the Library of Congress.

NY Observer
(link will work this week only)

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

It's an apology for the failure of earlier Senates to enact legislation.

Ty, isn't this the perfect example of a "slippery slope"?

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

What is there for any governmental entity or elected representative to apologize for in the case of James Byrd? I am not an expert on that case, but weren't there laws in place that made what happened to him illegal? didn't the appropriate governmental entity(ies) with jurisdiction prosecute? While I feel badly for his family (and him) I don't think that the citizens of his state need to apologize for the criminal acts of three bad actors through the voice or vote of their elected representatives. Get on with the business of government and stop wasting tax payer money. Instead of meaningless apology resolutions put the time and money into areas that needs work and can affect meaningful change, like education and maybe then the Union oppressed public schools won't produce three more ignorant fucks who go out drag a person to death.

I do think Tom Sneddon should apologize to the citizens of the State of California (hi ty!) for wasting how ever many millions of CA taxpayer money on a crap case (notwithstanding that I would bet millions that Jacko has had him some boy lovin).

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

Um, how so?

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

Again, I think apology resolutions or conscience votes are a waste of taxpayer time and money (hell, Bobby Byrd is already the Conscience of the Senate, isn't that enough?), but the Senate issue is, to my knowledge, definitely distinguuishable from the James Byrd case, where there were laws in place to prosecute (or am I not recollecting correctly-and I don't care enough to google).

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

According to one of its sponsors:

• From 1890 to 1960, 4,742 Americans were documented as having been lynched, with actual numbers believed to be much higher. During that time, nearly 200 anti-lynching bills were introduced to the United States Congress. The United States House of Representatives even passed three anti-lynching bills, but all failed on the floor of the Senate despite the lobbying of seven U.S. Presidents. Because of the Senate’s refusal to pass the legislation, the federal government was left powerless to intervene and protect Americans from these heinous acts of mob violence.

I can't believe that S. Res. 39 cost the taxpayers all that much money, but it would be nice if one of the Republicans who was ducking the roll call would come out and say that he thought a roll call vote would have cost too much. As it is, it looks kinda like they're playing for the votes of crypto-racists.

It's endearing to see Republicans start worrying about the nation's fisc only as an excuse to avoid apologizing for lynching, or funding Sesame Street.

Absolutely right. The government never ought to prosecute someone who can afford to defend himself properly. It's not efficient use of taxpayer money. Stick to sticking it to the poor and defenseless.

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

2. I want RT and all the moderators to apologize to me for when legaleze cheated me out of the Superbowl pool. that shit was a government action.

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

What about the "Freedom Fries" thing?

And we are off.....
 

"Ed Klein is the former foreign editor of NEWSWEEK and former editor in chief of the NEW YORK TIMES MAGAZINE. He is a frequent contributor to VANITY FAIR and PARADE."

Wow, the Vary Right Wing Conspiracy sure has extended its reach in the last few years. Even former editors of the Leftwing Bible are involved.

And we are off.....
 

They're recruiting people to their deviant lifestyle, using tax cuts and shit.

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

I'm sorry that you were cheated and I'm sorry if your being put in charge of this year's pool wasn't adequate compensation.

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

It's an apology for "failure to act".

How many times has the Senate (or Congress as a whole) "failed" to act - whether through the defeat of bills, the reluctance to act, or filibuster hijack of the system.

You really want to start the precedent of publicly apologizing for everything the Senate didn't do?

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

I hear they're good with Ketchup.

And we are off.....
 

Couple of thoughts:

1. It is my understanding that he claims to have backup for the Mrs. Moynihan interview, so I guess we shall see.

2. While Pat Moynihan may never have had an ill word about a "colleague", I am not sure in what sense Mrs. clinton, a non-elected to anything at the time, wife of a president, would be a colleague of Moynihan's. I sense a "what is 'is'" moment.

3. speaking of apologies, when is Hillary going to apologize to the American public for her performance and assertions on the Today Show back in 1998 where she unmasked and blamed the VRWC for promoting the lies about her husband and Monica. To refresh your memory, let's go to the tape:


MATT LAUER: Let me take you and your husband out of this for a second -- Bill and Hillary aren't involved in this story: If an American president had an adulterous liaison in the White House and lied to cover it up, should the American people ask for his resignation?

HILLARY CLINTON: Well, they should certainly be concerned about it.

LAUER: Should they ask for his resignation?

CLINTON: Well, I think -- if all that were proven true, I think that would be a very serious offense. That is not going to be proven true.

WHAT?!?!!?!?

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

According to Senator Landrieu, the Senate was the roadblock for the anti-lynching stuff. I didn't know that, but don't have any reason to disagree. Pro-segregation Southerners knew how to use the Senate, notwithstanding that Byrd's filibuster ultimately failed.

And I think that the Senate can apologize for lynching without being drawn down the slippery slope that you're concerned about.

At any rate, none of the Southern Republicans I was talking about had the cojones to come out in opposition to the apology on the sort of principled grounds you've articulated. They just didn't want to have to go on the record as voting for it.

And we are off.....
 

I doubt we will, but you let me know if someone ever establishes that Klein actually had the goods. Until then, we can assume that he is lying, since Moynihan's daughter says her mother hasn't seen Klein in 20 years.

Of course the VRWC was promoting the story about Bill and Monica, and I'm sure that the fact that he was cheating on her was made all the more palatable by all the low-lifes pushing the story in the press for political purposes. I'm not really clear why you think she has anything to apologize for.

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

I still don't see the point. I have always been a fiscal conservative and am not a representative of the party in any official capacity. That said, I propose a blanket apology, "we are sorry to everyone for not always doing everything that you think we should have and for doing anything that you think we should not have and we will try not to let any of that happen again, but if we do, we apologize in advance" Next.


Is the standard for deciding to prosecute that someone has enough money for a defense? It was an awful case, it should not have been brought. Is there a case to bring? Perhaps, but I think they need to develop it a little more first.

FTR, I am just as critical of prosecutorial indiscretion against poor people. there was case years back (mid 90s) in Chicago. A cook county prosceutor charged a couple with 1001 counts of child abuse and related offenses against their minor children. The kids were immediately taken and put in foster care. The parents were poor. Each and every count was later dismissed, prior to trial. There was no apology and there should have been. And the prosecutor should have been fired for what he did to those people's lives and the destructive affect the state visited on what proved to be an otherwise healthy (but poor) family.

I am an equal opportunity critic of the system.

And we are off.....
 

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent. In such quantities, these chemical agents could also kill untold thousands. He's not accounted for these materials. He has given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

U.S. intelligence indicates that Saddam Hussein had upwards of 30,000 munitions capable of delivering chemical agents. Inspectors recently turned up 16 of them -- despite Iraq's recent declaration denying their existence. Saddam Hussein has not accounted for the remaining 29,984 of these prohibited munitions. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

From three Iraqi defectors we know that Iraq, in the late 1990s, had several mobile biological weapons labs. These are designed to produce germ warfare agents, and can be moved from place to a place to evade inspectors. Saddam Hussein has not disclosed these facilities. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed them.

The International Atomic Energy Agency confirmed in the 1990s that Saddam Hussein had an advanced nuclear weapons development program, had a design for a nuclear weapon and was working on five different methods of enriching uranium for a bomb. The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production. Saddam Hussein has not credibly explained these activities. He clearly has much to hide."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...030128-19.html

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

2. or salt and vinegar

2 million hail marys and 3 million our fathers
 

As is your perogative. But we weren't talking about whether it was a good idea. We were talking about the Senate Republicans who blocked it from getting a voice vote because they didn't want to go on the record as apologizing for lynching.

I'm happier not knowing how strong a case it was. The main weakness of the case seemed to me to be that Jackson surrounds himself with freaks, and so the only witnesses who could testify against him are freaks.

Farm subsidies and the KKK
 

It means, simply, that he's one up on Helms. Damning with faint praise, but since I promised club that if Byrd published an autobio I would post about it, I felt I should.

Bullshit. I responded to your statement that Dems should apologize to African-Americans for (on Planet Penske) trying to prevent the Civil Rights Act from passing. When I pointed out how utterly full of shit you were, you had to look back another hundred years to try and say something else meaningful (try, but fail).

And we are off.....
 

Why do we assume the veracity of one person's baseless assertion and not the other? is the mother alive? If so, where is her statement? If not, to me, its a he said she said. Certainly we are not to believe that Moynihan's daughter was a first hand witness to every minute of her mom's life over the last 20 years are we? Are they are siamese twins?

I will go with credible journalist for now and wait to see what other evidence comes to the fore.

She was a self-proclaimed part of the administration. Two for the price of one. She went on a national news program with an agenda to influence the American public's opinion.

She said:

CLINTON: Well, I think -- if all that were proven true, I think that would be a very serious offense. That is not going to be proven true.

But it was.

She is either a bald faced liar or an inadvertant shill for her husband's perjurious cover-up. Either way she owes the American public an apology for her part in perpetuating the lie as a supposedly credible part of his administration.