Millions for defense; not one penny for tribute!
 

Except the other branches of government, that is?

You are what a Classics professor would call a fucktardus.

Say rather that he's apolitical.
 

Indeed, perhaps somewhere in a cave in Afghanistan is this generation's Wernher von Braun.

hoo-boy
 

that is a good race, but not "embarasssing" quotes. I said "quotes that show a delusional self-worth that makes it extremmely important that the person never hold power." You should start stacking, because I don't think you beat this one.

hoo-boy
 

"Mission Accomplished"

Millions for defense; not one penny for tribute!
 

You never respond to this point, Hank. Apparently you trust government agents who want to torture people to exercise good discretion, but you don't trust other government agents to use good discretion about when to punish them. The only government actors whom you trust are the ones who want to torture people.

Millions for defense; not one penny for tribute!
 

Atticus said "other branches" you say "other agents." i don't trust other branches, or at least one of the "other" branches because right now it is making arguments (similar to yours) that seem to be historically wrong. That same branch is also chasing political goals instead of doing what it deems best for the country, so no, i do not trust at least one branch.

I don't even know what you are asking, but if you can explain what you meant, i will consider whether i can opine.

Millions for defense; not one penny for tribute!
 

You're right that Atticus and I are making different points. I find it odd that you think that the legislative branch is the only branch chasing political goals instead of doing what it deems best for the country -- presumably this wasn't true when the GOP Congress did the White House's bidding a few years ago -- but, whatever.

My point went to whether torture should be outlawed. If it is, and if the CIA (e.g.) tortures someone to find a suitcase nuke in Manhattan, then a government prosecutor will have to decide whether to bring charges. I trust that prosecutor to exercise his or her discretion, and I trust a judge and defense counsel to make sure it's exercised well. You guys don't.

Millions for defense; not one penny for tribute!
 

if it is outlawed, why wouldn't they bring charges? de minimis torture?

Millions for defense; not one penny for tribute!
 

Prosecutorial discretion.

Millions for defense; not one penny for tribute!
 

Eh. Maybe it is hypocritical in the abstract. It certainly is sound policy.

It's also something that's really been enforced more by the market, if you will. Countries without the resources (money and brains) to build nukes don't. Countries with those resources (South Africa, India, Israel, Pakistan, and apparently North Korea) manage to violate the treaty and justify the violation.

Dude, McGovern lost, and hasn't been seen since. Even Jimmy Carter increased defense spending. The "anti-American brigade" you are talking about -- led by regular posters on Kos, I assume -- is nowhere near the levers of power. Who among the leading candidates for president do they support? Kuccinich? They certainly don't seem to like either Hillary or Obama.

And the other party has just as many anti-government blind haters as do the Democrats. "Charlton Heston is my president." "I love my country but I fear my government." "The ATF = jackbooted thugs."

I don't necessarily disagree with you here. I just think that the expansive positions taken by the Administration on what is torture and what the president's authority is are terribly wrong. And I don't blame the Joint Chiefs for any of that.

Millions for defense; not one penny for tribute!
 

no. you guys keep alleging we misuse that. I don't want the burden.

They're With Fred. (Until, of course, they get fired or quit.)
 

It's a bit inside baseball, but still I found this WaPo article on the genesis and subsequent sputtering of the Fred Thompson campaign pretty interesting. It's not really an epitaph, but it feels like one, and it's odd to be seeing it a month and a half before the first caucus.

Gattigap

Millions for defense; not one penny for tribute!
 

Don't forget, NotBob, that Slave's recent history is to live in hippie-dippie urban enclaves where the bras burn, the dope is dope, and the walk to the financial district invariably takes him past professional panhandlers. He chooses these (to a conservative) depressing venues because, of course, that's where the hot chicks are -- but it unfortunately colors his worldview a bit. After all, reports are that McGovern became one of the panhandlers.

Gattigap

Millions for defense; not one penny for tribute!
 

Of course, the difference is that the Republicans actually let their crackpots at the controls. The gun-nuts and the Christian right wear holes in the carpets of the White House - did Clinton ever have Louis Farakhan over for tea and footsie?

Millions for defense; not one penny for tribute!
 

So if we allege you misuse torture, you'll drop that too? Cool.