LawTalkers - Fashion Board 3-5-04 to 4-6-04

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
No, you condemn everything that is somewhat popular, which controls your personal music tastes. Basically, your desire to not be controlled by popular culture has, in effect, caused you to be more controlled by it than most. Every decision you make is based upon every decision that pop culture makes. You choose the opposite not based on personal preference, but b/c it's the opposite. Technically, you have no free will. You want to like that new Guster song, but pop culture now likes Guster, so you cannot. You are pop culture's Newtonian Third Law of Motion. And you bow to its will. Or un-will.

Your facile little thesis is flawed, and a bit ironic as just yesterday I was championing the greatness of the Stones. These days, I do not have enough exposure to popular music culture for it to control my tastes. I listen to no commercial radio stations, do not watch music videos, and really have no other expsore to popular music. Having said this, I will freely admit that this is not something to be proud of - I miss out on a lot of good music because I am not exposed to it. I hear almost no commercially popular hip hop, even though there is a lot of really good stuff out there. I do not even know who Guster is. They are just not on my radar screen. On the other hand, the fact that Outkast is popular does not make me like them any less. I am ecstatic they are doing well, hope they make lots of money, and think "Hey Ya" is a kick ass song. But, I cannot bear to listen to Clear Channel Radio Station 5 of 9 (Urban Contemporary) or Clear Channel Radio Station 2 of 9 (Slightly Edgy Adult Rock), so I am just going to have to accept that I am going to miss out on some good music as a result.

ThurgreedMarshall

03-31-2004 12:11 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by greatwhitenorthchick
I don't have an answer to your poll, but I believe this is Carole King's song (i.e. she wrote it). And she does a not half-bad job with it. So is it re-made when the songwriter sings it? When someone does their own song (like Willie Nelson with Crazy), it often isn't as good as the person who made it popular, but because it is theirs there is that element to it that seems to make it good. At least from my perspective.

It doesn't have to be written or first performed by the person who perfects it. Hell, most singers don't write their own stuff anyway. I guess I mean re-made in the sense that someone does it after it was done so very well already. I'm just trying to figure out what songs people think can't be improved upon or are insulted by the mere attempt.

TM

Replaced_Texan

03-31-2004 12:15 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
So, poll. Name a song or three that is so distinctive, memorable and gratifying that is should not be remade.

Ten years ago, I would have said no one but Miles Davis could touch any of Rodrigo's Concierto de Aranjuez (yes, I know, it was written for the guitar), but then I heard the Santana Brothers version of En Aranjuez con Tu Amor and allowed that there were valid alternate interpretations.

Sidd Finch

03-31-2004 12:15 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
It doesn't have to be written or first performed by the person who perfects it. Hell, most singers don't write their own stuff anyway. I guess I mean re-made in the sense that someone does it after it was done so very well already. I'm just trying to figure out what songs people think can't be improved upon or are insulted by the mere attempt.

In that vein, I would say All Along the Watchtower. Once Jimi Hendrix did it, it couldn't be done better.

Years ago, I would have said Layla. And then Clapton went and remade it, apparently after taking a handful of quaaludes, and proved my not-yet-made point.

And Fight the Power. Really, who would even try?

ThurgreedMarshall

03-31-2004 12:16 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by evenodds
As a lover of jazz and hip-hop, I reject your poll. There is no song too good to not be remade or a version too definitive.

Now, doing a kareoke version of anything Marvin or Aretha or heck Smokey ever did (including D'Angelo's version of Cruisin' which is good but only makes me miss the Smokey version) is an absolute travesty and people should be stopped or killed if they cannot be stopped.

However, some of the best music of the past hundred years has been based in the great American songbook or Hancock's "new american songbook", so no song should be considered inviolable.

I don't know much about jazz, but hip hop artists don't remake songs. They take pieces of songs and mix them with other music to come up with something (usually) totally different. So, reject the poll all you like, you're really just fighting the hypo.

TM

greatwhitenorthchick

03-31-2004 12:16 PM

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Quote:

no kidding. most singers don't write their own stuff?! the things you learn on this board.

I suppose I am going to be like evenodds and reject your poll as well, because I don't think there should be any inviolable songs.

There should, of course, be restraining orders on some singers - for example, Celine Dion should not be allowed to come within 50 feet of any good song because she would destroy it, but a good singer should be given the chance at any song out there. I don't see the harm.

Did you just call me Coltrane?

03-31-2004 12:17 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by Pretty Little Flower
Your facile little thesis is flawed, and a bit ironic as just yesterday I was championing the greatness of the Stones. These days, I do not have enough exposure to popular music culture for it to control my tastes. I listen to no commercial radio stations, do not watch music videos, and really have no other expsore to popular music. Having said this, I will freely admit that this is not something to be proud of - I miss out on a lot of good music because I am not exposed to it. I hear almost no commercially popular hip hop, even though there is a lot of really good stuff out there. I do not even know who Guster is. They are just not on my radar screen. On the other hand, the fact that Outkast is popular does not make me like them any less. I am ecstatic they are doing well, hope they make lots of money, and think "Hey Ya" is a kick ass song. But, I cannot bear to listen to Clear Channel Radio Station 5 of 9 (Urban Contemporary) or Clear Channel Radio Station 2 of 9 (Slightly Edgy Adult Rock), so I am just going to have to accept that I am going to miss out on some good music as a result.

Yeah, I may have exaggerated a bit.

But how do you avoid all pop music? It's played everywhere. Commercials, retail stores, bars, clubs, etc. I don't listen to pop radio or watch videos either, but I feel that I'm exposed to it (which most of the time is pretty unfortunate).

Aloha Mr. Learned Hand

03-31-2004 12:17 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
You can't cover Otis Redding. Its should not be attempted.

Absolutely. Sadly, it has been.

I'll go with:

1. God Only Knows -- Beach Boys
2. The Dock of the Bay -- Otis Redding
3. Born to Run -- Bruce Springsteen
3a. In Your Eyes -- Peter Gabriel

Tyrone Slothrop

03-31-2004 12:18 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
Outkast doing Lionel Ritchie's "All Night Long". The song AND the video. I'm serious. I saw the video last night on BET -- just hilarious. And I think Outkast could make it funnier.

The Blind Boys of Alabama doing Prince's The Cross. That's fun.

ABBAKiss

03-31-2004 12:18 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by bold_n_brazen
1. Tangled Up in Blue - Bob Dylan
2. Won't Get Fooled Again - The Who
3. Good Year for the Roses - Elvis Costello

Honorable Mention:
Coming Up Close - 'Til Tuesday

I don't think I know how any of these songs go. I have, however, heard of the artists.

I abhor Bob Dylan.

Couldn't tell you anything about the others except I could put them in the category of "bands/musicians" when given the option of that or "food groups"; "types of arachnids"; "brands of facial tissue." And I know Costello wore dark rimmed glasses.

sebastian_dangerfield

03-31-2004 12:23 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by ThurgreedMarshall
I think I posted this a long time ago, but I believe that there are certain songs that should never be remade. Ever. I tend to think most everything by Aretha or Marvin should be protected because they can't be improved upon.

So, poll. Name a song or three that is so distinctive, memorable and gratifying that is should not be remade.

I'll go with:

1. Natural Woman - Aretha
2. What's goin' on - Marvin
3. I'll Be There - Jackson Five

TM

I'll do 3 plus

1. Most of Sinatra's best tunes.
2. Most Dylan (he shouldn't even play most of his stuff live anymore; and Bob Weir certainly shouldn't be allowed to continue destroying Queen Jane)
3. Anything by the Who (you can't do keith and entwhistle, so don't try)
4. Zeppelin (see # 3)
5. Hendrix (see # 4)
6. Remakes of '60s psychedelic stuff

Oliver_Wendell_Ramone

03-31-2004 12:25 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by ABBAKiss
I abhor Bob Dylan.

Speaking of Dylan (and I don't abohr him), I was surprised to hear and see him in a Victoria's Secret commercial. If you're gonna sell out, you might as well sell out while surrounded by hot, nearly-nude chicks.

Pretty Little Flower

03-31-2004 12:25 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
Yeah, I may have exaggerated a bit.

But how do you avoid all pop music? It's played everywhere. Commercials, retail stores, bars, clubs, etc. I don't listen to pop radio or watch videos either, but I feel that I'm exposed to it (which most of the time is pretty unfortunate).

It seems like these days, the only music on comercials is down-tempo ambient electronica. I hear pop songs at the department store, but not enough to really make an impression. I don't think I go to too many bars or clubs that play Top 40 type music. Usually, if I am going out, it is to see a band. Even if just to a bar, it seems like tons of bars have a DJ spinning house music or some variation. It is not that heard to not be exposed to pop music. Like, everyone makes references to that milkshake song, but as far as I know, I have never heard it or anything else by whoever sings it.

bold_n_brazen

03-31-2004 12:26 PM

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Quote:

Originally posted by ABBAKiss
I don't think I know how any of these songs go. I have, however, heard of the artists.

I abhor Bob Dylan.

Couldn't tell you anything about the others except I could put them in the category of "bands/musicians" when given the option of that or "food groups"; "types of arachnids"; "brands of facial tissue." And I know Costello wore dark rimmed glasses.

ABBA Honey,

None of this is stuff to be proud of.

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