Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

Or Stuart Scott: "Spoo ya!"

Dick Vitale: "Dipsy-doo Spunkeroo!!"

Speaking of sporting news
 

34-23 as I type this. But you miss the actual point - the Knicks are newsworthy again.

I cannot wait for the trainwreck that happens when we get Wallace.

Crap
 

It is quite unpleasant to realize that you have a flat tire (undriveable) on your car when you are trying to leave work for the day. Drat.

Curious to know your reaction to this news story.

A neurosurgeon in Fox Chapel, Pennsylvania was asked to speak to his son's fifth grade class about a 1875 painting depicting a surgical procedure. To illustrate several points, he brought with him a cadaver arm, which he opened at one point in the discussion to show students nerves, tendons and other parts. There was no blood.

One kid passed out and was sent to the nurse's office. Another five (of the 66 students present) left the classroom at various points because of the strong smell of formaldehyde.

About ten parents in the affluent Pittsburg suburb called school board members to complain. "[I]n hindsight, probably a letter should have been sent home and we will be doing that in the future," a district spokesperson said.

Pa. Boy Faints at Sight of Cadaver's Arm [Yahoo News.]

My own take on this is that the parents are overreacting and the district should do a better job defending the doctor. What's next, the parents have to send in permission slips for their kids to watch filmstrips about animal dissection? Part of the compromise of public education is that your kid gets exposed to things he wouldn't if you were homeschooling him. But that doesn't mean education policy should be set to the Pussiest Common Denominator. Especially when it comes to science and literature. I'll bet one of those kids whose parents think the presentation was "too graphic" for their child will think about going to med school because of what em learned that day. Your thoughts? Am I being too harsh because my nieces around that age would probably have been poking at the arm and saying "Cool!"?

As a parent, I'd want to know in advance if somebody was going to come in and play Show and Tell with parts of a cadaver... Not to say that I wouldn't let my kids view it, depending on their age, but I'd want the opportunity to discuss it with them and hear about the program for myself first.

I did the whole high school dissection thing, which was no big deal, but there's a reason I didn't go to med school and it's because the idea of working with or on corpses didn't do much for me... Some people are more squeamish than others or have perfectly sound moral or religious reasons for not wanting to participate in programs such as this. I say there's nothing wrong with having such programs, but make them voluntary.

Probably.

It's a severed limb, Atticus. There's a psychological separation between peering at a frog's intestines vs. the insides of a human's elbow.

Look, I understand a number (probably a good number) of 5th graders would've thought it's neat to see it. I might've thought so, too. I also see the educational point you're making.

But I'm not surprised that others were grossed out, and after the 4th kid passed out from the formaldehyde, it might've occurred to the doc to put the arm back in the box and called it a day. And, I remember having to get permission slips for all kinds of stupid shit at that age. Requiring permission to see a cadaver, or limbs thereof, doesn't seem to me like an apocalyptic abandonment of educational standards just yet.

ETA: Went back and read, and realized that only 1 kid passed out. Despite the factual flaws, I like my argument as it is.

lies
 

I'm not sure I've ever seen a friend's SO with another woman so I am not the nutso friend. I have seen guy friends with extremely hot women not their SOs when they were supposed to be out of town with "friends." But as I did not know the SO, I kept it to myself as it was none of my business.

I don't understand how any meeting with an ex could be so important as to do it without telling your SO. There is a reason you aren't with the ex anymore. I have old exes that I wouldn't mind catching up with but the desire to do so is now worth upsetting a current SO. I'm not sure how this makes me more likely to be lied to.

The big fight (if the SO finds out you lied about meeting up with the ex) will end, but there will be a crack in the relationship that may not be quickly or easily mended.

So why do it? What about the ex makes it worth lying about, much less risking hurting your SO?

Like they never saw a severed arm in a PS2 game

Oh, sure. When you put it that way, of course it makes me sound, um, unreasonable.

Fair point. Didn't mean to sound outraged by it or anything; I just surmise that about half of the "Kids today have no conception of real-world violence etc." comes from the antiseptic way in which they're raised, excepting of course cartoon violence like video games and movies.

As a Catholic with many elderly relatives who eventually proved susceptible to the charms of eternal life as a cadaver, I encountered a bunch of well-coiffed deceased people at various open-casket wakes and funeral Masses. Death wasn't exactly a friend, but it also wasn't something that only happened to bad guys in the movies. My parents didn't protect me from it. But when I got to college, I met a bunch of people who'd never been in the room with a body. I don't think that's a good thing.

But to my mind, this isn't about death. It's about science and medicine. I'm probably going overboard on the permission slips, but I have a lot of confidence in what kids can take.

Post this on Politics so I can nominate it for Board Motto.

If one of the kids had taken the arm and started beating people to death with it, maybe the people calling for game ratings and parental controls might be on to something.

Somehow that seems different.



No way in hell would I lie about seeing someone. I won't date someone who is prone to getting jealous for no reason. And if she has a reason to be jealous of a person, then out of respect for her, I'd stay away from the person. I would expect the same courtesy in return.

The only time it is acceptable to lie to me about who you are seeing is when you are planning a surprise party for me. In that case, knock yourself out. If you have to lie about an ex, that means there is something guilty going on in your head. And that means, stay away from that particular ex.

No fuss, no muss, no problem.



As far as the politics board, we can just make it a factual flaw that it was posted there and make it the motto.

What a bunch of wusses.

Right on!

In high school, I dissected a cat in my AP Biology class. It was awesome! It was kinda like the game "Operation" without the annoying buzzing sound. Cats have very well-defined musculature, btw. I went so far as to crack open its ribcage (extra credit!) and extracted its heart (it's about the size of a large walnut), and dissected it to look at the chambers and the valves.

In college, I took a physiology lab that used live frogs (they appeared "high" and delirious while they were sitting in some anesthetizing solution). The lab started with taking one of these stoned frogs and cutting off its head with a pair of scissors (the goal of the dissection was to extract the sciatic nerve). I had a blast, although the other classmates doing their Michigan J. Frog impressions every time their headless frogs twitched got irritating.

Dress for Suck-skeks
 

sebby

The threshold for avoiding "cheap" isn't that high. Floyd Abrams is a big deal litigator at Cahill. He wears Nautica. There are plenty of litigators that dress comparably. Floyd and others do just fine.

RP -- Button down collars are very popular among government attorneys; some of them wear button down shirts with no other kind of collar.

BRC

As with Floyd's suit, the threshhold amount of required social/interpersonal skills isn't actually that high. This is especially true for the relatively few attorneys that actually are brilliant.

The doctor should have been beat over the head with it and then had it shoved up his ass. Parts of a dead body are too graphic for fifth graders.

We coddle our children in the States.
1978, when my Cambodian ex-girlfriend was in 5th grade in Phnom Pehn, a DOCTOR was dragged into her classroom and they had to hack his fucking arm off. Sorry, no warning note to mom- they had hacked her up the week before.

CYA memos
 

Sebby

Oh really?

Sometimes clients want a memo to cover their ass, so they have evidence you gave them some advice or other about litigation or a deal. If someone's asking for you or your superior's view on the legal consequences of something, and your analysis requires diligence, your insurance carrier might like you to keep some records of that. If you tell the client there's a serious legal risk in doing something or there potentially is pending further legal or factual diligence or restructuring the deal or the approach to the litigation, your insurance carrier might like some records of that.

Curious GPs
 

slave

I've had multiple sources confirm that one now retired attorney used to search his helpers' offices and desks. He prohibited them from locking any drawers.

Curious GPs
 

Poll: On weekends or late nights did you eer go through a bosses desk? Find good pay info , review info, upcoming firing info, nake secretary picture info?

Curious GPs
 

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski

Who needs to go through anyone's office? That's what communal printers and faxes are for. I've seen all sorts of stuff. Someone's relative is addicted to ____. Someone else is getting totally ripped off by a contractor. Someone is regularly making large deposits in the personal bank account of a woman that's not their wife. Some GA is on the shit list because he came close to committing malpractice.

We did a foot and an arm in HS, with no notes to mom beforehand, and I don't remember anyone having a fit about it, or even mentioning that it might be improper.

(Edit: Okay, reading further makes it apparent that I missed something - fifth graders? That might be pushing it.)

Your talents are missed on the PB.

ETA: Scroll, then post.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

Exception to rule (and I suspect this only applies to women) is the SO you dated bc they treated you like a goddess even though the attraction wasnt where it should be and ultimately, it felt more like a friendship so you broke up but stayed friends bc that person was your best friend for a long time. once i had a phone call with this ex and the then SO called in on the other line and I explained i was talking about a traumatic event that the ex and I went through to gether bc i needed to work that out in my head (the SO should have understood this bc we had spoken of it and the fact that i was still working through it). I stayed on phoen with ex and told SO i would call himback. He hit roof, went into rage and never trusted me again. which was weird bc i was alsways completely devoted to him and had demonstrated as such many times. and he knew he was a million times hotter than my ex.

but i didnt feel i should hide this from the SO bc I dont hide things and I dont lie in a relationship. he had no reason to be threatened and he knew i split from ex bc i just wasnt into him. but he flipped. I think this was moer a reflection on my SO then on how to handle a situation. A more secure, well adjusted individual woudnt have flipped in those circs.

I know I'm late to the party, but I think it's a complete and utter overreaction on the part of the aprents. I don't see why permission slips would be necessary. This doc seemes to me to have been really excited about teaching these kids.

Oh, and the kid who passed out is a fucking pussy.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

After reading all this, all I can say is that men underestimate a woman's ability to understand or cope bc they might ask a couple of questions to get the facts straight, and that women appraently overestimate a man's ability to cope. Men are jealous babies and women are understanding and rational if they have reason not ot be threatened (and all they need is facts if the relatinship is healthy). In my last two relationships, both exes have met with their exes and while I wasnt thrilled about it, I talked to the SO and got the facts, told them what I thought, and let them do their thing. It was a nonissue in the healthier relatsioship bc I trusted the guy. and trust is necessary fora relationship. if there is trust and a history of disclosure and honesty, there should be no problem with such things besides a raised eyebrow that can be easily lowered after the intiaial surprise.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

You were both my firsts too. That was a fun night, huh?

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

Before I realized it was you posting, i thought you were gonna say "bring the SO to the meeting".

which reminds me that I started seeing a guy and then found out that he was VERY into all of his exes hanging out together and becoming friends. I thought that was nuts and dumped him. That's a bizarre ego trip, right? If it just happened, fine, but he seemed to encourage this. I personally dont want to see my So's ex bc I have a vivid imagination, so I definitely dont want to meet them.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

Part of the reason people are having different opinions on this might be the nature of the meeting. You might be talking about two different meetings.
You seem to assume they're talking about a quiet drink for an hour to talk over old times. I can't imagine many SOs not being able to handle this.
But the original hypo was a night out drinking for several hours. Not catch-up; fun. For this not to be likely to turn sexual would require a friendship I certainly don't have with any ex, but maybe someone does. If I did want to go out drinking all night with an ex that would be a hard thing to sell the wife.
But, I agree with you that not being honest would seem very wrong, and damaging to the relationship even if she didn't find out.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

Both of my SOs ended up spending a material amount of time at their exes houses for two different reasons both exes were an airplane's flight away from me. I dont think it matters.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

And, while if one of the two did find out and was completely rational and accepting about it and decided that the violation of trust could be forgiven and worked through, it's too easy to basically fall out of love at that point, no matter the conscious intent to get past things. Once you know that you have reason to wonder at the truth of what you're being told by someone, that will always be in your mind on some level. Just not worth it.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

a violation of trust can never be forgotten. when that happens, its over even if you stay together.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

I think we're agreeing. When trust is violated, you can consciously decide to forgive the person, and move on, but you then always know that the person is essentially untrustworthy, and that factors into everything forever.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

We aren't assuming that at all, at least I am not. What we are saying is if that is your intention or there is even a possibility of it, there is no reason to put yourself in this position.

This hypo would be a basis for a case of reasonable jealousy on the part of the spouse. So of course you wouldn't be able to sell it to her. You'd be nuts to try to, and you be nuts to go.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

If you tell me you're going out for a drink with an ex, I'll assume you're going out for a drink with your ex. If you don't tell me, I'll assume there's a reason you don't want to tell me, and I'll be rightly pissed when inevitably I find out that you lied.

Have some guts and just spit it out like a man (or woman, whatever). If it's an innocent drink, who gives?

Duelling
 

How long after the end of a dating relationship before your friend take a shot with your ex?

I have an extremely incestuous group of friends. Well, we didn't realize how incestuous until last night . . . also known as one of the funniest nights of my life.

Two of my friends (previously discussed here as extremely hot musician and very attractive rich guy) are meeting up with (1) an ex-girlfriend of EHM and a group of her friends, and (2) a woman VARG is now dating and a group of her friends. Yeah, I know it's the same woman several hours before the meeting, but who am I to say anything. EHM calls to say, uh, new girl (that is hot girl #2) is also coming, but I don't want to get involved with her, though she wants me, I think VARG should date her. These two, who met through me only weeks ago, are able to talk to both of these women and each other without any difficulty. If anything, now they are boys.

While all of this is going on, the ex-hook-up of my least attractive guy friend [who I also didn't date] is a hot woman (#3) we all like very much. They hooked up months ago, but upon meeting her, lagf decides that this is the woman for him so he has pursued her ardently for months though he has been constantly rebuffed.

So, my ex takes #3 out on the dance floor. LAGF sees them, freaks out, and starts gesturing wildly back in vip where the rest of us are hanging out. My ex #2 grabs LAGF and cuffs him. I head downstairs to check out the goings on and see them a little closer than absolutely necessary.

LAGF freaks out that his best friend is hitting on "his girlfriend."

So, what's the statute of limitations?

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

I'm interested in what happened after you got upset. Was all trust lost? Did you ever get over it? What happened?

TM

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

I know you didn't mean it this way, but this paragraph sounds like the husband cheated on the wife with the daughter. Yuck.

TM

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

Coltrane and Sequels:

http://www.funinthebox.com/stock/jlovepdaddy.jpg

http://www.partypirates.com/images/hatpimpb.gif

TM

Duelling
 

When you won't reasonably be hurt if your friend takes a shot with your ex. It's up to the friend to ask you/be sensitive to your individual timetable.

LAGF though sounds like he's hallucinating. There's no SOL needed in the case of irrational self-delusion.

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

The main things making me think of cheating lately are your avatars. Hubba hubba! Woo woo!

Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them
 

Yeah, well, deal.