Manners
 

But, don't the societal conventions merely assure you that the intended recipient of the respect actually perceives it?

Manners
 

Sure she does. Brian Leetch in a different shade of blue, and Ronnie Francis playing for his boyhood favorite.

And I submitted a spec script (thanks str8!) to NBC for my new version of The Odd Couple -- instead of sebby and atticus, I went with you and fugee. The deal is that you inherit a house in some gently "different" small town, but, see, fugee is already living there under some unbreakable lease, but you already sold your old home and changed the address on your library card, so you *have* to live there. And she won't move because the lease says she can live there, so she will, Mister Urban Sophisticate!

Opera versus hip-hop; Twins versus Yankees; wingnut versus heathen -- need I say that wacky hijinks ensue?

Manners
 

I'm having logic problems with this statement.

Manners
 

I would wager a lot that he is actually doing it wrong, though even doing it right can have a big squick factor if you misjudge your target (i.e.: the woman has not presented her hand horozontally so as to indicate that the gentleman is permitted to bow over it). There is a reason this maneouver is not traditionally correct unless the woman in question is wearing gloves. And he should certainly never make contact with the back of the hand, or actually do anything with his lips, that is just disgusting. But about 50% of the time this has been tried on me it is sucessful. Every time it has not been sucessful, it has been done wrong (including once when the move was done right but in a business setting, which is obviously wrong). I've seen about the same sucess rate with cheek kissing.
Only sensible way to live in a time of changing standards. It would be nice if the elderly or disabled gentlemen I open doors for or offer seats would be as polite.

Manners
 

Sure. But I know plenty of complete scumbags who go through those motions and have zero respect for the subjects of said gestures.

TM

Manners
 

Real World MN?

TM

Manners
 

Not by insisting that widespread and longstanding societal conventions for expressing respect, which a large number of people still consider meaningful, are stupid and outdated.

Manners
 

You are so damn easy to get riled up! Not to mentioned being defensive about how you treat women and fixated on gift giving after childbirth.

A person should be considerate and polite to everyone so it's no big deal if you treat your date that way. And I'm not imagining a romance-novel character -- I just look at the way my brother and other guys I know treat their wives and GFs.

I've never had a guy come around to open the car door so I could get out and it probably would feel a little weird waiting for that. As to depth of knowledge, women tell other women things they'd never tell their guys, so I doubt you know more about what women want in relationships than any woman on the board, even me.

Manners
 

Nonresponsive. I wasn't trying to convey any respect to you on this subject.

TM

cross-posting topic from parents board
 

Trust me. You aren't.

Manners
 

You rest your argument based on what your girlfriends tell you?

I should have known this was a pointless discussion.

TM

Manners
 

And smacks oh-so-painfully of that cheeseball (what was his name? Vic Damone?) in Fast Times at Ridgemont High.

"And the lady will have... the mozzarella sticks..."

If that's not cringeworthy, I don't know what is.


DAMN! Beated to the punch by Aloha. Hat's off to you, sir.

Manners
 

RW has too much drama for me. I was going for something with a laugh-track and "misunderstandings" -- you know, the town hottie is convinced that you and Fugee are an item, the big party that Fugee throws every year is almost ruined by you, but you step in to save the day at the end, the Professor makes a signaling device to attract the attention of the Navy, but Gilligan thinks that is for catching fish, and throws it in the lagoon. That sort of thing.

Manners
 

I think I missed this discussion, but I did not realize this was "proper etiquette". My brother-in-law gave my little sister a rolex after she gave birth and she said it made her feel weird. Like she was being paid to have their kid. Our consensus was that he was just trying to be nice, but it was kind of weird. I think I would feel odd about it too.

Manners
 

And I've known plenty of people who have respect for others but offend everyone they meet because people aren't mind readers and can only judge others based whether their behavior conforms to known forms of showing respect, not intent.