In Defense of Club
 

FWIW, I don't actually think he's as racist as his comments make him sound. And it could be classism -- but I tend to think, and I think RT's statistics back me up, that we need all kinds of classes of immigrants.

And I don't think he's at all articulating what he DOES want the policy to be.

ETA and the thing about "not coming just to make more money" just sounds ludicrous. Does he only want political refugees? I would think we would get very few immigrants from Europe (or, western Europe) if acknowledgement and prostration before the superior governmental system were a prerequisite for immigration.

Interesting campaign tactic.......
 

There is no doubt that most illegals are solidly contributing to our economy and our country in general. But there are studies on both sides of the argument that, as you would expect, reach different conclusions on the cost/benefit analysis.

Interesting campaign tactic.......
 

I don't know what the right number is, but I'm in favor of letting in as many as the system can handle.

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What system?

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Agreed, but my admittedly idealistic self would like to think there was more to it than just $$$.

In Defense of Club
 

Thanks Wonk.

I don't think I'm a classist either. I come from modest roots. My great grand parents (who, I will note, came over 150 years after RTs line) came here with nothing but the shirts on their back. Only 1 of my grand parents had a college education. Trust me, I get it.

Interesting campaign tactic.......
 

Our system in this country. Our system that does and will continue to need to educate the children of illegal immigrants. Our system that pays emergency medical costs, pays public assistance, requires driver's licenses and other forms of ID, and on and on.

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Can you provide a cite for illegal aliens getting public assistance? I didn't think they could. Also, is there a federally based (not state-by-state) right to public education for people in the country illegally? I'm not sure on that one. Emergency medical, also not sure on, but I can see where people would get that.

ETA on the public education thing, please differentiate, as necessary, between education for children who came here illegally and education for children who were born here to parents who are not here legally. This may necessitate a discussion of whether there should be a birthright citizenship rule thingy.

Gracias!

Interesting campaign tactic.......
 

Follow the conversation you dolt. We are talking about how much the system can handle. That assumes they would legally be here in the first place.

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As twenty random immigrants the following:

"Did you come to America for freedom of religion, freedom of speech, or because you believed you could make a better living for yourself and your family?"

My guess is you'll get the "better living" response at least 15 times. Feel free to start with my parents -- as minimally devout Roman Catholics in Italy they didn't have much issue with freedom of religion, and they don't seem to care too strongly about freedom of speech, but they sure as hell liked being able to feed their kids and put us thru school.

Interesting campaign tactic.......
 

The name-calling is charming. Thanks for the clarification.

In other news...
 

There's a very entertaining article on the front page of today's WSJ outlining how the Abramoff scandal broke.

I think there is a lesson here for us all: if you are at the center of a giant scheme to barter political influence for huge sums of cash, do not dump your fiancee for a 24 year old waitress a month before the wedding.

Interesting campaign tactic.......
 

Well, with EMTALA, anyone who shows up in an ER should be evaluated and stabilized, no matter ability to pay or status. So there are costs associated with that (though, in assessing those costs, there should be an analysis of the taxes that undocumented aliens are paying). (Note: the board of the Harris County Hospital District threatened to quit in 2000 when it was suggested that the District stop treating illegal immigrants.)

As for the children of undocumented aliens, if they're born in the United States, they're United States citizens, and regardless of their parents' status, we do have an obligation to educate them. According to the Pew Hispanic Center, there are 3.1 million of them. The question is what to do about the 1.8 million kids who are unauthorized. Again, their parents are likely paying property and sales taxes, which often go towards school finance.

This is probably a good report to read to better understand the population that we're talking about. I think that these are the statistics that have club so worried:
Characteristics of Unauthorized
• Who Are They?
-- Mainly in Families
-- Relatively Young
-- Almost All Work
• What Are They Like?
-- Low Education
-- Low Income
-- High Poverty
-- Lack of Insurance

I did find it interesting that 25% of undocumented aliens had some college background. I would have thought it much less.

In other news...
 

A propos of ethics reform, I think Congress should take a page from Nigeria:

Soccer refs should take bribes but remain neutral.

Interesting campaign tactic.......
 

Maybe. Unless you were asking Russian Jews, who have come to the country in great numbers. Or Cubans. Or the very large number of immigrants who come because they are married to a US citizen (or the child of one) - who presumably would want an option that they came for love.

Then again, if you asked our former au pair why she's still in the country, she'd tell you it's the Malls. They don't have Malls like ours in France.

Club, should we kick her out? She's here for the Malls, and except for the Malls (and the movies), probably isn't overly excited about American culture, history, or principals.