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-   -   Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630)

Gattigap 10-05-2004 12:46 PM

October Surprise?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
there have been false starts before, but if this stuff hits- and there is a report coming up later this week- JFK might have to change field again before the next debate. and ss if this proves true, and you don't apologize, I'm telling everyone your real middle name.

http://www.cnsnews.com//ViewSpecialR...20041004a.html
Um, this report has been described in other corners as a parody.

ltl/fb 10-05-2004 12:49 PM

Good Work Building Those Alliances
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Goring the oxy re the moron.
Shove it, bucko.

SlaveNoMore 10-05-2004 12:55 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
Well, thats a complete pile of steaming shit straight from Safire's ass, er, I guess they're calling that his mouth these days...

This would be true - oil would be much cheaper.
Why are you looking to Safire? Kerry's says as much every other fucking day of the week.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-05-2004 12:57 PM

Good Work Building Those Alliances
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Shove it, bucko.
I love Texas and Texans. But it's more for lines like this. Not very ladylike, Ms. Fringe.

Shape Shifter 10-05-2004 01:00 PM

Gun control (register or don't)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
The reason why you don't see the relevance is the same reason why you deserve to be shot.
Does Godwin's Law apply in situations like this?

ltl/fb 10-05-2004 01:06 PM

Good Work Building Those Alliances
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I love Texas and Texans. But it's more for lines like this. Not very ladylike, Ms. Fringe.
Who are you, my cleaning lady? I would think you'd say Ms. Benefit, not Ms. Fringe. And if you are going the first-name route, really it should be "Miss Fringe" or "Mrs. Fringe" depending upon my marital status.

sgtclub 10-05-2004 01:26 PM

Gun control (register or don't)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
I don't think Atticus deserves to be shot, but I'm willing to bet the victims don't see the relevance either.
Or much else

sgtclub 10-05-2004 01:31 PM

Gun control (register or don't)
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Does Godwin's Law apply in situations like this?
Not strictly, but there are some jurisdictions that would apply it anyway.

SlaveNoMore 10-05-2004 02:02 PM

Carnak the Great
 
Tomorrow's headlines, brought to you today:

From the NYT:

"Young Senator Edwards attacks angry, bitter Cheney on Halliburton, Iraq quagmire"

From the NY Post:

"Vice President exposes Edwards' utter lack of foreign policy knowledge"

From ESPN:

"Curse Continues; Angels Romp"

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-05-2004 02:05 PM

Good Work Building Those Alliances
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Who are you, my cleaning lady? I would think you'd say Ms. Benefit, not Ms. Fringe. And if you are going the first-name route, really it should be "Miss Fringe" or "Mrs. Fringe" depending upon my marital status.
Curtains today?

Please don't step on the floor.

Gattigap 10-05-2004 02:05 PM

Carnak the Great
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Tomorrow's headlines, brought to you today:

From the NYT:

"Young Senator Edwards attacks angry, bitter Cheney on Halliburton, Iraq quagmire"

From the NY Post:

"Vice President exposes Edwards' utter lack of foreign policy knowledge"

From ESPN:

"Curse Continues; Angels Romp"
From Drudge:

"Cheney held in undisclosed location after found strangling Rumsfeld and Bremer for going horribly off-message just prior to debate"

Tyrone Slothrop 10-05-2004 02:22 PM

more polls
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I see 154 in red (and thats conceding FL). Where are you getting 321?

PA will go Dem, even if the votes go for the GOP. Whoever colored it pink doesn't know the machine in these parts very well.
Hank is getting this map from http://www.electoral-vote.com, which updates daily. The site has a lot more information on it, including a little box for each state with the latest polling data.

As I posted yesterday, the site just changed its methodology to reflect a rolling average rather the most recent poll for a given state. This appears to have yielded some odd results -- for example, Michigan is shown as a tie, but I don't remember seeing a poll showing Bush leading there for a while. But the bottom line is that the information reflected there is less current now than it was a few days ago.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-05-2004 02:32 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Why are you looking to Safire? Kerry's says as much every other fucking day of the week.
As compared to that doddering imbecile your boys chucked on the stage last week? Fuck, they better pump more than half hour's worth of soundbites into the Ipod Karl implanted in W's head if they plan to get thorugh the next one. Johnny might be a stiff, but even Joe Sixpack gets agita when he sees the head guy sputtering like a chimp with a head full of malt liquor.

Lets quit giving your boy (and possibly my boy) the benefit of the "soft bigotry of low expectations" afforded him because he's a "homesy honest fellow" and talk candidly about what a person of his stature should have done in a debate. He should have been able to fucking speak. he should have had more than soudbite replies. he should have realized that even Cooter at home on his couch, picking link from his ass crack, can see through 4th grade level repetitive bullshit. Bush shit the bed. Had he been up against someone who could communicate like Reagan or Clinton, he'd be down five points. Kerry may be Gore II, but he's got piles more native intelligence than Bush, and he might just learn from last week. God help that babboon your party (and mine) elected if Kerry somehow miraculously learns to "connect" on economic issues and bitchslaps monkey boy in the town hall debate. Likely? Probably not. But is Bush a new low? Did he embarrass the shit out of himself last week? Absolutely. Now even the rubes know their candidate's a dipshit. So go ahead and support him as part of the party line, but don't insult anyone's intelligence by auggesting he's actually a good candidate. The man's in further over his head than anyone in history.

Replaced_Texan 10-05-2004 02:34 PM

Good Work Building Those Alliances
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
I love Texas and Texans. But it's more for lines like this. Not very ladylike, Ms. Fringe.
You know, driving back from lunch, I realized that my being a lawful handgun owner would have resulted in about six or seven shootings. The shootings would have been wholely and completely justified, but it would have been a pain in the ass to explain why certain moron drivers needed to be put out of their misery.

SlaveNoMore 10-05-2004 02:36 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
As compared to that doddering imbecile your boys chucked on the stage last week? Fuck, they better pump more than half hour's worth of soundbites into the Ipod Karl implanted in W's head if they plan to get thorugh the next one. Johnny might be a stiff, but even Joe Sixpack gets agita when he sees the head guy sputtering like a chimp with a head full of malt liquor.

Lets quit giving your boy (and possibly my boy) the benefit of the "soft bigotry of low expectations" afforded him because he's a "homesy honest fellow" and talk candidly about what a person of his stature should have done in a debate. He should have been able to fucking speak. he should have had more than soudbite replies. he should have realized that even Cooter at home on his couch, picking link from his ass crack, can see through 4th grade level repetitive bullshit. Bush shit the bed. Had he been up against someone who could communicate like Reagan or Clinton, he'd be down five points. Kerry may be Gore II, but he's got piles more native intelligence than Bush, and he might just learn from last week. God help that babboon your party (and mine) elected if Kerry somehow miraculously learns to "connect" on economic issues and bitchslaps monkey boy in the town hall debate. Likely? Probably not. But is Bush a new low? Did he embarrass the shit out of himself last week? Absolutely. Now even the rubes know their candidate's a dipshit. So go ahead and support him as part of the party line, but don't insult anyone's intelligence by auggesting he's actually a good candidate. The man's in further over his head than anyone in history.
Lay off the fucking caffeine, PJ.

Gattigap 10-05-2004 02:37 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Bush shit the bed.
Board motto!

Say_hello_for_me 10-05-2004 02:39 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Board motto!
Let's see how many people you can get to pile on in agreement! If you can get 10, I'll be the 11th. Can 10 anonymous lawyers on an internet chatroom be wrong?

Replaced_Texan 10-05-2004 02:42 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
As compared to that doddering imbecile your boys chucked on the stage last week? Fuck, they better pump more than half hour's worth of soundbites into the Ipod Karl implanted in W's head if they plan to get thorugh the next one. Johnny might be a stiff, but even Joe Sixpack gets agita when he sees the head guy sputtering like a chimp with a head full of malt liquor.

Lets quit giving your boy (and possibly my boy) the benefit of the "soft bigotry of low expectations" afforded him because he's a "homesy honest fellow" and talk candidly about what a person of his stature should have done in a debate. He should have been able to fucking speak. he should have had more than soudbite replies. he should have realized that even Cooter at home on his couch, picking link from his ass crack, can see through 4th grade level repetitive bullshit. Bush shit the bed. Had he been up against someone who could communicate like Reagan or Clinton, he'd be down five points. Kerry may be Gore II, but he's got piles more native intelligence than Bush, and he might just learn from last week. God help that babboon your party (and mine) elected if Kerry somehow miraculously learns to "connect" on economic issues and bitchslaps monkey boy in the town hall debate. Likely? Probably not. But is Bush a new low? Did he embarrass the shit out of himself last week? Absolutely. Now even the rubes know their candidate's a dipshit. So go ahead and support him as part of the party line, but don't insult anyone's intelligence by auggesting he's actually a good candidate. The man's in further over his head than anyone in history.
I believe that this is why Bush is going to give a "major" speech on Wednesday. Opposite the Yankees/Twins second meeting. Thankfully, the Astros will have already played, so I can give my full and proper attention.

Hank Chinaski 10-05-2004 02:45 PM

more polls
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Hank is getting this map from http://www.electoral-vote.com, which updates daily. The site has a lot more information on it, including a little box for each state with the latest polling data.

As I posted yesterday, the site just changed its methodology to reflect a rolling average rather the most recent poll for a given state. This appears to have yielded some odd results -- for example, Michigan is shown as a tie, but I don't remember seeing a poll showing Bush leading there for a while. But the bottom line is that the information reflected there is less current now than it was a few days ago.
Yes but my point was that yesterday Bush was 30 e-votes lower. that is post debate and post chnage in methodology.

Gattigap 10-05-2004 02:46 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I believe that this is why Bush is going to give a "major" speech on Wednesday. Opposite the Yankees/Twins second meeting. Thankfully, the Astros will have already played, so I can give my full and proper attention.
Interesting. Gerson must be burning the midnight oil.

In other news, from the article:
Quote:

"There has been an attempt by the president's opponent to launch false attacks and mislead the American people on these big priorities," the paper quotes White House press secretary Scott McClellan as saying. "There are some big differences facing the American people, and the president wants to highlight those differences."
I understand the tactical advantages to speaking only in titles, but unless Bush is really referring to Nade here, I think the mystery is over. People have heard that some Senator from MA is the Democratic nominee.

Shape Shifter 10-05-2004 02:48 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Board motto!
2. And I think we can go ahead and count atticus in for this one.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-05-2004 02:51 PM

more polls
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Yes but my point was that yesterday Bush was 30 e-votes lower. that is post debate and post chnage in methodology.
And my point is that if you read the words below the map, it sounds like he's still messing with the methodology. I agree with you that the map looks good for Bush. I don't believe it means much just now, but whatever.

Hank Chinaski 10-05-2004 02:53 PM

more polls
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
And my point is that if you read the words below the map, it sounds like he's still messing with the methodology. I agree with you that the map looks good for Bush. I don't believe it means much just now, but whatever.
Which, if you read my prior post, is exactly what I said.

SlaveNoMore 10-05-2004 02:53 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Replaced_Texan
I believe that this is why Bush is going to give a "major" speech on Wednesday. Opposite the Yankees/Twins second meeting. Thankfully, the Astros will have already played, so I can give my full and proper attention.
He's giving a big speech in PA to rev up his numbers there. What is the big deal?

More telling is Kerry conceding Virginia and moving his troops to Minnesota and Wisconsin - two blue states.

Hank Chinaski 10-05-2004 02:54 PM

more polls
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Which, if you read my prior post, is exactly what I said.
and this, by the way, is the only true candidate for board motto so far today.....

Hank Chinaski 10-05-2004 02:55 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I think
lgf is working on a visual to dispute this.....

taxwonk 10-05-2004 02:58 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
2. And I think we can go ahead and count atticus in for this one.
I'll throw down for one more.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-05-2004 02:58 PM

more polls
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Which, if you read my prior post, is exactly what I said.
I am so happy that we agree! Fantastic!

On the subject of polls, here's an op-ed from today's WaPo that struck me as interesting. I have no idea if it's right or not, but -- again -- whatever.
  • Myth of the Vanishing Swing Vote

    By Mark J. Penn
    Tuesday, October 5, 2004; Page A25

    For months, pundits and the press have been peddling an obviously misguided theory of the American electorate: that all the voters have chosen one side or the other and thus there are almost no swing voters left. But a funny thing has happened. Since July the presidential horse race in public polls has gone from as much as an 8-point Kerry lead to as much as a 13-point Bush lead and is back again to a close race.

    The reality is that for months about a quarter of the electorate has been unsure of its choice for president, and despite the hundreds of millions of dollars of partisan advertising and rhetoric, that quarter remains in play. The recent controversy over how many Democrats or Republicans are in public polls has obscured the fact that the largest party in America is no party -- a plurality of American voters self-identify as independents, and they are the voters who will decide the election.

    Why are the pundits so wrong? Because they bought into what people in both camps had a very real interest in selling. Liberals and conservatives wanted their respective candidates to believe that appealing to swing voters was ideologically weak, unprincipled and ineffective. They wanted to convince their candidates that the path to victory was to tack to the right or the left, thereby validating their own agendas on Election Day.

    One result was that President Bush, who had at least run with a centrist moniker in 2000, took positions opposing popular stem cell research, pushing constitutional amendments to ban gay marriage and adopting far-out economic ideas such as cutting taxes on dividends. After his support declined to the low 40s, Bush woke up to the reality that swing voters were in play and presented a more centrist front at the Republican convention, which featured John McCain, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Rudy Giuliani.

    After winning the Democratic primaries by knocking out the more liberally positioned Howard Dean, Sen. John Kerry had a large lead and emphasized his long-standing centrist views, pointing out that he voted for welfare reform and balanced budgets despite opposition within the Democratic Party. The image of the Democratic Party soared.

    But after Bush changed his campaign tactics to tack back toward the center, Kerry believed his drop in the polls could be fixed by adding more "edge" to his message. He moved to make his opposition to Bush's conduct of the war in Iraq the centerpiece of his campaign message, a message with tremendous appeal to the Democratic base but whose appeal to swing voters is uncertain. Now there is a renewed opportunity to win back this group of voters who report that they have already definitely decided their vote, but who have repeatedly changed their minds this year.

    Who are the voters swinging back and forth? They are the very ones we identified in 1996 as the most important group of swing voters: middle-aged white women. In polling we conducted for the New Democrat Network in late May, these voters were split nearly evenly between Kerry and Bush, but by September, Bush led this group by 28 percentage points.

    These modern moms work, have kids and live in the suburbs. They are not concerned about party labels, Vietnam service records or the National Guard. They are voting on the basis of what they think will be best for the future of their families. Forty-seven percent of these voters believe security is the most important issue -- a reversal from late May, when 50 percent said the economy was most important and only 28 percent named security. It is not too late to turn them around again.

    We might all learn a lesson from Bill Clinton in 1992. He won by making the Persian Gulf War irrelevant to the election. He focused on swing voters, with plans for welfare reform and middle-class tax cuts, and he drove the economy, not the war, as the central defining issue. In 1996 he focused on a plan to balance the budget and cruised to a landslide victory.

    So what will it take to win these swing voters? A tough approach to terrorism is a prerequisite, but what will bring them back is a focus on their families, the ballooning deficits and a vision for curing the domestic ills of this country. (This is where Bush is weakest.) And above all, it will require a positive approach. These voters are looking for ideas, not insults.

    With the dramatic twists and turns in the polls establishing that the swing voter is alive and well, winning this election will depend much less than people think on revving up the base and much more on who gains the confidence of these savvy independent voters. The good news for Democrats is that the latest signals from the Kerry campaign indicate that they may now be pivoting to target these voters for the homestretch.

    The writer, who heads a Democratic polling firm, conducted polls for President Bill Clinton's 1996 reelection campaign.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-05-2004 03:02 PM

more globL TESTS - He Gets One on the Front Nine, and One on the Back
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I believe that this is why Bush is going to give a "major" speech on Wednesday. Opposite the Yankees/Twins second meeting. Thankfully, the Astros will have already played, so I can give my full and proper attention.
They call that a mulligan.

ltl/fb 10-05-2004 03:03 PM

"Undecided"
 
I have decided that all the people claiming to be undecided really are decided, or aren't planning to vote anyway, and are just fucking with the pollsters and the campaigns to get attention.

Shape Shifter 10-05-2004 03:06 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
lgf is working on a visual to dispute this.....
You have to go and rub it in about the Lions/Texans. Damn turnovers.

dtb 10-05-2004 03:36 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
As compared to that doddering imbecile your boys chucked on the stage last week? Fuck, they better pump more than half hour's worth of soundbites into the Ipod Karl implanted in W's head if they plan to get thorugh the next one. Johnny might be a stiff, but even Joe Sixpack gets agita when he sees the head guy sputtering like a chimp with a head full of malt liquor.

Lets quit giving your boy (and possibly my boy) the benefit of the "soft bigotry of low expectations" afforded him because he's a "homesy honest fellow" and talk candidly about what a person of his stature should have done in a debate. He should have been able to fucking speak. he should have had more than soudbite replies. he should have realized that even Cooter at home on his couch, picking link from his ass crack, can see through 4th grade level repetitive bullshit. Bush shit the bed. Had he been up against someone who could communicate like Reagan or Clinton, he'd be down five points. Kerry may be Gore II, but he's got piles more native intelligence than Bush, and he might just learn from last week. God help that babboon your party (and mine) elected if Kerry somehow miraculously learns to "connect" on economic issues and bitchslaps monkey boy in the town hall debate. Likely? Probably not. But is Bush a new low? Did he embarrass the shit out of himself last week? Absolutely. Now even the rubes know their candidate's a dipshit. So go ahead and support him as part of the party line, but don't insult anyone's intelligence by auggesting he's actually a good candidate. The man's in further over his head than anyone in history.
The bold part, while disturbingly evocative, I don't quite understand. What is link? How does one find it in one's ass crack?

sgtclub 10-05-2004 03:46 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by dtb
The bold part, while disturbingly evocative, I don't quite understand. What is link? How does one find it in one's ass crack?
I think its lint.

Tyrone Slothrop 10-05-2004 04:02 PM

just for the hell of it
 
Another polling graphic:

http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/fi...-landscape.GIF

Sorry it's so big. I don't even pretend to understand this guy's methodology, but the chart is cool.

Diane_Keaton 10-05-2004 04:02 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by dtb
The bold part, while disturbingly evocative, I don't quite understand. What is link? How does one find it in one's ass crack?
Shouldn't be so hard to find, DTB. It's LINK for Chrissakes!
http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/clarence-williams.jpg

sebastian_dangerfield 10-05-2004 04:08 PM

more globL TESTS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Shouldn't be so hard to find, DTB. It's LINK for Chrissakes!
http://www.fiftiesweb.com/tv/clarence-williams.jpg
Exactly. Link is also frequently found in the navel...

SlaveNoMore 10-05-2004 04:29 PM

Tool Time
 
I love how the media gives Kerry a pass on stupidity like this:

From Geraghty:

Quote:

The Washington Times passes on a bit from Knight-Ridder:

Knight Ridder reporter Tom Fitzgerald, covering Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign, filed this tidbit Sunday from a campaign stop in Ohio:

"At one point, Kerry seemed a little irony-challenged. He greeted a young man in a 'Titanic Swim Team' T-shirt and asked what events he swam. The embarrassed kid said he was actually on his high school track team. 'So you stole the shirt?' Kerry joked. 'I thought you were on the swim team. You faked me out there.' "

Tyrone Slothrop 10-05-2004 04:45 PM

Tool Time
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I love how the media gives Kerry a pass on stupidity like this:

From Geraghty:
Knight-Ridder and the Washington Post reported it, undercutting your apparent complaint about media inattention to Kerry's foibles. If you want a media source that goes over the top in trashing him, just watch FOX.

SlaveNoMore 10-05-2004 04:53 PM

Tool Time
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
Knight-Ridder and the Washington Post reported it, undercutting your apparent complaint about media inattention to Kerry's foibles.
Um, it said the Washington Times.

As usual, WaPo and the NYT felt compelled to look the other way.

CBS is planning an expose on how Karl Rove gave the kid the shirt to set him up.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-05-2004 04:55 PM

Perfect Storm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I love how the media gives Kerry a pass on stupidity like this:

From Geraghty:
Oil is over $50 a barrel.

CNN is reporting that a 45 year old woman just dropped dead two days after learning her son died in Iraq.

Yahoo: Today's report on jobs showed a slowdown in hiring with the biggest increase in cuts in 8 months.

Anyone other than Herman Munster would be jogging backwards through the finish line. Its amazing.


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