LawTalkers

LawTalkers (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/index.php)
-   Politics (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Meet your new thread, same as the old thread. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781)

sgtclub 06-27-2007 05:39 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
As I said above, the doctrine is not necessarily obsolete because there are more media.
It's not only more outlets. It's that plus the rise of user gererated and published content, which is still in it's infancy, but will, at some point, have a very large share, if not a majority, of all content.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 06-27-2007 05:40 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I think it's the same issue that was brought up with the TV pay satellite services went through the process.
Alright, I know a few more facts. It's similar, but not the same. The principle difference is that in directv/echostar, a number of customers had no alternative way to get tv--there's no cable out in the sticks. On XM/Sirius, the alternatives--broadcast radio, CDs, iPods, etc., are available pretty much everywhere as well (or at least there's much less of a problem with rural customers).

Gattigap 06-27-2007 05:41 PM

Thompsonmania!
 
South Carolinians look at Fred Thompson, and they like what they see:
  • "To be honest with you, it seems to be a personality thing," said Wyndham Owens, a 57-year-old builder from Wagener, S.C., who votes Republican. "From what little I've seen, he seems to be conservative, yet not stupid."

He's a double-threat!

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 06-27-2007 05:42 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
National TV is not a problem because there are so many cable stations, and while cable would not be subject to the Fairness Doctrine (IIRC) because it doesn't involve the airwaves, it provides diversity. I thought local TV was the problem.

Print media has nothing do with the Fairness Doctrine.
FCC regulates cable tv as well. So they could seek to apply it there, just as they seek to apply obscenity rules to cable tv. That said, the rationale for regulating content on broadcast tv is different for cable.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 06-27-2007 05:42 PM

Thompsonmania!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
South Carolinians look at Fred Thompson, and they like what they see:
  • "To be honest with you, it seems to be a personality thing," said Wyndham Owens, a 57-year-old builder from Wagener, S.C., who votes Republican. "From what little I've seen, he seems to be conservative, yet not stupid."

He's a double-threat!
I'm glad that's the standard Rs have sunk to: Not stupid.

Hank Chinaski 06-27-2007 05:43 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The state antitrust enforcers say it too.
one of my clients was gun shy re. antitrust boomeranging from filing a patent complaint. So when we were tapped to sue a company on an automotive patent we had to meet with DC antitrust counsel. The guy was probably billing twice what I did, and was completely full of hot air- BUT his point was that my patent was itself the relevant market, or could very likely be. so what he said was different from what everyone has said to GGG or you or burger.

after about an hour of showing him existing alternatives he still was not ready to green light us. So i told him I was going to write the client that if Antitrust guy's opinion was right, the company should just stop patenting anything becasue it was circular that the patents could never be used. He backed down a little bit then.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 06-27-2007 05:46 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
one of my clients was gun shy re. antitrust boomeranging from filing a patent complaint. So when we were tapped to sue a company on an automotive patent we had to meet with DC antitrust counsel. The guy was probably billing twice what I did, and was completely full of hot air- BUT his point was that my patent was itself the relevant market, or could very likely be. so what he said was different from what everyone has said to GGG or you or burger.

after about an hour of showing him existing alternatives he still was ready to green light us. So i told him I was going to write the client that if Antitrust guy's opinion was right, the company should just stop patenting anything becasue it was circular that the patents could never be used. He backed down a little bit then.
Let me know next time you're in town. I'll give you an antitrust primer for the price of a beer.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 06-27-2007 05:47 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
one of my clients was gun shy re. antitrust boomeranging from filing a patent complaint. So when we were tapped to sue a company on an automotive patent we had to meet with DC antitrust counsel. The guy was probably billing twice what I did, and was completely full of hot air- BUT his point was that my patent was itself the relevant market, or could very likely be. so what he said was different from what everyone has said to GGG or you or burger.

after about an hour of showing him existing alternatives he still was ready to green light us. So i told him I was going to write the client that if Antitrust guy's opinion was right, the company should just stop patenting anything becasue it was circular that the patents could never be used. He backed down a little bit then.
Why were you arguing with him when he was green lighting you?

And why didn't you call Ty?

Gattigap 06-27-2007 05:49 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Why were you arguing with him when he was green lighting you?

Double-reverse psychology. These fucking antitrust guys, they'll never outthink a good patent lawyer.

Shape Shifter 06-27-2007 05:50 PM

Thompsonmania!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I'm glad that's the standard Rs have sunk to: Not stupid.
They're ready for a change.

Hank Chinaski 06-27-2007 05:56 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Why were you arguing with him when he was green lighting you?

And why didn't you call Ty?
i dropped a "not." i have tried to meet Ty but he lives to far from where i am all the time.

Secret_Agent_Man 06-27-2007 06:02 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
one of my clients was gun shy re. antitrust boomeranging from filing a patent complaint. So when we were tapped to sue a company on an automotive patent we had to meet with DC antitrust counsel. The guy was probably billing twice what I did, and was completely full of hot air- BUT his point was that my patent was itself the relevant market, or could very likely be. so what he said was different from what everyone has said to GGG or you or burger.

after about an hour of showing him existing alternatives he still was not ready to green light us.
The guy sounds like an idiot.

And this meeting may have occurred before some clarification from the appellate courts that, e.g., a patent does not itself confer market power. Filing a good faith patent infringement complaint won't give anyone a serious antitrust action against you.

S_A_M

SlaveNoMore 06-27-2007 06:17 PM

Thompsonmania!
 
Quote:

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I'm glad that's the standard Rs have sunk to: Not stupid.
It differentiates us from the Democrats

Replaced_Texan 06-27-2007 06:20 PM

Thompsonmania!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
It differentiates us from the Democrats
It's a big tent, damnit.

Tyrone Slothrop 06-27-2007 06:33 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
It's not only more outlets. It's that plus the rise of user gererated and published content, which is still in it's infancy, but will, at some point, have a very large share, if not a majority, of all content.
My concern re the Fairness Doctrine is not with national TV, given the proliferation of cable channels, not to mention the interwebs and other sources of info. My concern is with local markets, where the decisions of individual news outlets may make it hard to get other views. Suppose you live in Dubuque, and the only local TV news is on KCRG and KWWL. If they decide to cover only one side of a story, that could have a huge impact.

More generally, I've posted again and again over the years how the free market can result in crappy news reporting. The airwaves are a public resource. If we're interested in having a robust exchange of ideas, then we don't need to simply auction them off.

Shape Shifter 06-27-2007 06:35 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
My concern re the Fairness Doctrine is not with national TV, given the proliferation of cable channels, not to mention the interwebs and other sources of info. My concern is with local markets, where the decisions of individual news outlets may make it hard to get other views. Suppose you live in Dubuque, and the only local TV news is on KCRG and KWWL. If they decide to cover only one side of a story, that could have a huge impact.

More generally, I've posted again and again over the years how the free market can result in crappy news reporting. The airwaves are a public resource. If we're interested in having a robust exchange of ideas, then we don't need to simply auction them off.
Who watches local news?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 06-27-2007 06:38 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Who watches local news?
And, of the people who watch local news, which of them don't also read the newspaper?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 06-27-2007 06:41 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
And, of the people who watch local news, which of them don't also read the newspaper?
You have just described Dubuque, haven't you?

Gattigap 06-27-2007 06:50 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Who watches local news?
Almost 6 our of 10 Americans do, you effete coastal liberal sissy!
  • In its 2004 biannual news consumption survey, the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, fully 59% of Americans surveyed said they watched local TV news "regularly," compared with 57% in 2002. That is also higher than the percentage of Americans who say they "regularly" go to any other news outlet. This leveling off, moreover, comes after a period of steep decline. In 1993, 76% of Americans said they were "regular" local news viewers. That fell to 65% in 1996 and 56% in 2000.

It's comforting to know that in this crazy world, America still makes room for Ron Burgundy.

Replaced_Texan 06-27-2007 06:52 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Almost 6 our of 10 Americans do, you effete coastal liberal sissy!
  • In its 2004 biannual news consumption survey, the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, fully 59% of Americans surveyed said they watched local TV news "regularly," compared with 57% in 2002. That is also higher than the percentage of Americans who say they "regularly" go to any other news outlet. This leveling off, moreover, comes after a period of steep decline. In 1993, 76% of Americans said they were "regular" local news viewers. That fell to 65% in 1996 and 56% in 2000.

It's comforting to know that in this crazy world, America still makes room for Ron Burgundy.
I knew this. A few years ago, a news crew caught me and my sister at Target on December 24th buying last minute Christmas stuff. At least twenty people stopped us in the next week or so to tell us about our broadcasting feature on procrastination. I never saw it. I'm not sure I could find Channel 2 on my television. If they'd had streaming content on thier website back then, maybe I would have been able to see it.

Shape Shifter 06-27-2007 06:55 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Almost 6 our of 10 Americans do, you effete coastal liberal sissy!
  • In its 2004 biannual news consumption survey, the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press, fully 59% of Americans surveyed said they watched local TV news "regularly," compared with 57% in 2002. That is also higher than the percentage of Americans who say they "regularly" go to any other news outlet. This leveling off, moreover, comes after a period of steep decline. In 1993, 76% of Americans said they were "regular" local news viewers. That fell to 65% in 1996 and 56% in 2000.

It's comforting to know that in this crazy world, America still makes room for Ron Burgundy.
I guess those "if you don't watch, your children could DIE!" teaser ads are more effective than I thought.

Gattigap 06-27-2007 06:59 PM

Fred Thompson, Alpha Dog of the Week
 
Colbert explains how Fred Thompson will be humping his way through primary season.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 06-27-2007 07:02 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
I knew this. A few years ago, a news crew caught me and my sister at Target on December 24th buying last minute Christmas stuff. At least twenty people stopped us in the next week or so to tell us about our broadcasting feature on procrastination. I never saw it. I'm not sure I could find Channel 2 on my television. If they'd had streaming content on thier website back then, maybe I would have been able to see it.
And how many people have stopped you when you've been on the national news?

ltl/fb 06-27-2007 07:11 PM

Gun tracing data
 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070627/...ss_gun_control

Does the current law restricting tracing make it harder to trace guns than other things? Like, is the NRA saying that there is an enhanced right of privacy to gun ownership, as opposed to the right of privacy as to whether one owns a car or whatever?

Not Bob 06-27-2007 07:15 PM

And if you like to drink your whiskey, you might even shoot yourself.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070627/...ss_gun_control

Does the current law restricting tracing make it harder to trace guns than other things? Like, is the NRA saying that there is an enhanced right of privacy to gun ownership, as opposed to the right of privacy as to whether one owns a car or whatever?
You don't have a constitutional right to own a car, so the extra level of privacy for gun owners is required. (I assume that that is the NRA take on it, anyway.)

ltl/fb 06-27-2007 07:19 PM

And if you like to drink your whiskey, you might even shoot yourself.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
You don't have a constitutional right to own a car, so the extra level of privacy for gun owners is required. (I assume that that is the NRA take on it, anyway.)
Uh, OK. It lacks logic, though.

Not Bob 06-27-2007 07:24 PM

Two feet they come a creeping, like a black cat do.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Uh, OK. It lacks logic, though.
I don't build 'em, I just fly 'em.

ltl/fb 06-27-2007 07:27 PM

Two feet they come a creeping, like a black cat do.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
I don't build 'em, I just fly 'em.
I know. That's why I didn't actually rant.

Not Bob 06-27-2007 07:34 PM

Playing poker on a losing night.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I know. That's why I didn't actually rant.
You should be a judge.

ltl/fb 06-27-2007 07:35 PM

Playing poker on a losing night.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
You should be a judge.
Then I would have an obligation to rant, so that lawyers would stop taking cases of bad actors, e.g. the NRA?

OK, this attitude toward the right to counsel is one of the thousands of reasons I shouldn't be a judge.

SlaveNoMore 06-27-2007 07:55 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Shape Shifter
Who watches local news?
I do.

Or at least the 20 seconds that always seems to run over into my Seinfeld rerun

sebastian_dangerfield 06-27-2007 10:36 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I don't care about talk radio at all. I don't listen to it, and I don't want to. I'd be surprised if many Dems do. I thought the Fairness Doctrine was more of an issue in local elections and smaller media markets where the opposition of a single TV or radio station can go a long way to preventing people from getting their views out.

eta: Here's Dianne Feinstein on the issue:
  • With conservative talk radio blasting Republicans and Democrats for their support of immigration reform, Feinstein said she is exploring whether to revisit the "fairness doctrine," which, before being abolished in 1987, required that broadcasters present controversial issues in a balanced manner.

    "I think there ought to be an opportunity to present the other side. And unfortunately, talk radio is overwhelmingly one way," Feinstein said. "I do believe in fairness. I remember when there was a fairness doctrine, and I think there was much more serious, correct reporting to people."

link

Let me just say, I've never liked her.
I haven't met a Democrat yet who liked her. How the hell does she keep getting re-elected?

As to her fairness argument, TALK RADIO ISN'T NEWS. It's not a matter of fair reporting. It's a matter of there being a marketplace for certain types of editorializing and there not being a marketplace for others. She may as well try to create "fairness" in the disparity between the purchase of vanilla and chocolate ice cream. We're talking about a purchased and consumed commodity.

How to do we elect these types of people? How? I'm a fucking screwhead from nowehere and I can spot the idiocy and wrongheadedness of this campaign.

I'm getting a drink.

sebastian_dangerfield 06-27-2007 10:37 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I do.

Or at least the 20 seconds that always seems to run over into my Seinfeld rerun
"Ten more shot in Philadelphia."

It's always insufficient, and it's always poor people and drug dealers. If we could only get some of those bullets aimed into City Hall.

Tyrone Slothrop 06-27-2007 11:44 PM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I haven't met a Democrat yet who liked her. How the hell does she keep getting re-elected?
She plays to the middle, supporting things like the flag-burning amendment. (This talk-radio thing isn't like her.) She finds a way to get press for ideas like building another Bay Bridge that will strike people who aren't paying attention as fine notions, never mind that they'll never go anywhere.

Quote:

As to her fairness argument, TALK RADIO ISN'T NEWS. It's not a matter of fair reporting. It's a matter of there being a marketplace for certain types of editorializing and there not being a marketplace for others.
That's exactly the point of the Fairness Doctrine, that different editorial views ought to be represented on the airwaves, which are a public trust. Because spectrum is limited, and owned by the public and only used by stations, they have an obligation to serve the public, and not just the highest bidder. IIRC, anyway.

sebastian_dangerfield 06-28-2007 12:09 AM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
That's exactly the point of the Fairness Doctrine, that different editorial views ought to be represented on the airwaves, which are a public trust. Because spectrum is limited, and owned by the public and only used by stations, they have an obligation to serve the public, and not just the highest bidder. IIRC, anyway.
That's interference with free speech. And creepy.

If the left wants to have its competing voice, I say let it build as many stations as it likes and make its voice heard. But to force a station to offer programming its audience has no interest makes me very uneasy.

Tyrone Slothrop 06-28-2007 12:25 AM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
That's interference with free speech. And creepy.
It may be creepy, if you're too young or drug-addled to remember how life was before 1985. It is not interference with free speech, since it applies only to broadcasters using spectrum they get from the government.

Quote:

If the left wants to have its competing voice, I say let it build as many stations as it likes and make its voice heard. But to force a station to offer programming its audience has no interest makes me very uneasy.
No one said it's audience has "no interest." That's silly.

In theory, it's about the public interest, not the left. In practice, there are few Republicans left who have a functional conception of the public interest.

sebastian_dangerfield 06-28-2007 12:40 AM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
It may be creepy, if you're too young or drug-addled to remember how life was before 1985. It is not interference with free speech, since it applies only to broadcasters using spectrum they get from the government.



No one said it's audience has "no interest." That's silly.

In theory, it's about the public interest, not the left. In practice, there are few Republicans left who have a functional conception of the public interest.
1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's most broadcast radio.

2. Forcing the same station that enjoys huge ad revenue from running Limbaugh and his ilk to run Franken is idiotic. If the left could garner an audience, it would have a hold on the airwaves.

In the case, the left and "public interest" are indistinguishable. That most Republicans don't care about the public interest depends on what you define as the public interest. Given that "moving target" nature of the things to be manipulated and effected by the sort of interference Feinstein advocates, it's wise to never engage in it again.

Like I said. Let the liberals build their own stations. They can use union labor.

Hank Chinaski 06-28-2007 12:58 AM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
That's exactly the point of the Fairness Doctrine, that different editorial views ought to be represented on the airwaves, which are a public trust. Because spectrum is limited, and owned by the public and only used by stations, they have an obligation to serve the public, and not just the highest bidder. IIRC, anyway.
I'm sorry. NPR is not a simple liberal voice because..............

Hank Chinaski 06-28-2007 01:00 AM

If You Can't Beat Em, Pass a Law
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
it applies only to broadcasters using spectrum they get from the government.
get from the government? I know Al Gore invented the internet, did Roosevelt invent radio waves?

Not Bob 06-28-2007 09:31 AM

Stuck a feather in his cap and called it Macaroni.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
get from the government? I know Al Gore invented the internet, did Roosevelt invent radio waves?
Oh, come on. Do you mean to suggest that because nature created the radio spectrum, government has no power to regulate/sell the right to use it? So much for charging money to see Old Faithful, eh?

Actually, you can thank (in part) Herbert Hoover not FDR for that one. The federal regulation of radio started under his watch as Commerce Secretary. Why? In part because too many people were broadcasting on too limited a spectrum. And there was a version of the fairness act then, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Radio_Commission


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:55 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
Hosted By: URLJet.com