LawTalkers - All Hank, all the time.

LawTalkers (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/index.php)

- Politics (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - All Hank, all the time. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=734)

Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Right now, without the bill, there is a sense in which Massachusetts already has universal health coverage paid for with some combination of tax dollars and private money; this just rationalizes the system.

If someone is uncovered right now, they are still able to get free treatment (though not for all that ails them) at tax-exempt hospital facilities; to the extent the patient doesn't have funds to pay for the care, they go into an uncompensated care pool that is funded by levies on the more profitable hospitals and by tax money - that is, the uncompensated care adds to the cost of other people's healthcare and comes out of taxes.

The basic idea behind this bill was to get all the interested parties in a room to hash out how the uninsured were covered and to rationalize it, providing them with fuller coverage while cutting back on some of the costs. There's some new money coming from taxes, but much of that is spent on tax reduction for people who are covered. Most of the new money will come from the third party payors, but if it works there will be a long-term cost savings from the rationalization (less emergency healthcare, more preventative care = less total cost). There is a spirited debate right now, however, over whether the uninsured really do use ERs to a disproportionate extent, and if the traditional wisdom is wrong, there will be higher premiums partially offset by increased tax deductions.

Note that the bill is going to be signed by a Republican Governor currently running for President as a right-wing nutcase.

In light of the study suggesting that most people who go to the ER have insurance that came out last week, this is really interesting.

Quote:

The researchers, led by Kelly A. Hunt of the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, based their findings on a national survey that asked almost 60,000 adults about their emergency room use. The researchers defined a frequent patient as one who made four or more visits a year.

The issues of who goes to the emergency room and why have grown in importance as pressures on E.R. doctors have increased. From 1993 to 2003, the study said, emergency room visits went up about a quarter. In 2003, most emergency departments said they were at or over capacity at least half the time, the researchers said.

The study found that 84 percent of the frequent users had insurance and that 81 percent had regular health providers.

Although the study found that frequent emergency room visitors often had good reason to be there, it suggested that that there were better ways to take care of their needs.

"Clearly, having the patient be able to go to a primary care physician who knows them — that's the best kind of care," Dr. Weber said.

BTW, I *heart* the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Quote:

Replaced_Texan
In light of the study suggesting that most people who go to the ER have insurance that came out last week, this is really interesting.

BTW, I *heart* the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

F the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

He should be focusing on getting the NY Jets our own stadium.

Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
a Republican Governor currently running for President as a right-wing nutcase.

Is he already a right-wing nutcase, or just putting on airs for the election?

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Is he already a right-wing nutcase, or just putting on airs for the election?

There are those who will argue that he is a right-wing nutcase who put on airs to get elected Governor, and others that will argue that he is really a moderate republican who is now putting on right-wing airs to get elected President.

I believe that in his heart of hearts he is a true right wing nutcase. This should make Slave happy.

He also has the most impressive sense of entitlement I have ever seen.

Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Did anyone else see Brownie on the Colbert Report last week (I caught up on Tivo last night)? I was somewhat impressed that he's showing his face in public, much less subjecting himself to Stephen Colbert.

He's actually not a dumb guy. He wasn't bad before Congress either. And he's got a somewhat compelling case in his "I'm a scapegoat" defense. The word amongst politicos in DC (that I heard from drunken sources while screwed out of my tree at a hotel bar) was that Chertoff is a four star imbecile who will be on hiw way out as soon as it can be done in such a way as to not make it look like a firing for incompetence.

I don't think, from what I've read, Brownie fucked up out of sheer stupidity. He just didn't care and never expected to deal with such a serious issue. He was a guy riding a good resume-building gig, like 9 out of 10 heads of agencies. He just happened to be the unlucky bastard who had a disaster happen on his watch.

Quote:

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Is he already a right-wing nutcase, or just putting on airs for the election?

He's a right-wing nutcase if you are a lunatic, tin-foil "no blood for oil" socialist from Taxachussetts, like GGG.

Otherwise, he's a GOP moderate.

Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
In light of the study suggesting that most people who go to the ER have insurance that came out last week, this is really interesting.

BTW, I *heart* the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

Yes, this study has been much discussed. I haven't read all the footnotes in the debate, but my basic understanding is that the results of this study contradict the experience of the uncompensated care pool in Massachusetts, where the amount being paid for emergency care that didn't need to be emergency care is significant. But Massachusetts is putting a lot of chips on the table on betting on Green, even though there's this spectator named Robert Woods sitting on the side yelling "Red! Red!".

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Lovely.

The pimp hand of State of Taxachussetts slaps its citizens once again.

They didn't have any fucking business up there anyway.

I love watching all these fuckwad incompetent bureaucrats try to "fix" health care, wealth disparity, etc...

The best these uncreative idiots can muster are programs for wealth redistribution. In this case, Mass is just taking from coprs and giving (ostensibly) to citizens as tax breaks. You know what this "glorious win" for labor will effect? You guessed it - a shitload of layoffs and unemployment from companies leaving the state.

You can't "create" money by state machination/program. The only thing that creates money is the economy, and the only thing that creates a hot economy is less regulation and less govt. Every "boom" we have results from a new industry thats not regulated. Once the states sticks its filthy hands into an industry, the profits flatten.

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
They didn't have any fucking business up there anyway.

I love watching all these fuckwad incompetent bureaucrats try to "fix" health care, wealth disparity, etc...

The best these uncreative idiots can muster are programs for wealth redistribution. In this case, Mass is just taking from coprs and giving (ostensibly) to citizens as tax breaks. You know what this "glorious win" for labor will effect? You guessed it - a shitload of layoffs and unemployment from companies leaving the state.

You can't "create" money by state machination/program. The only thing that creates money is the economy, and the only thing that creates a hot economy is less regulation and less govt. Every "boom" we have results from a new industry thats not regulated. Once the states sticks its filthy hands into an industry, the profits flatten.

no. the "tax" a few hundred bucks per employee for a company w/o health care is minimal. Most national companies- read those that can move- already have HC so they'll not be bugged. Local companies can't leave if their business is local- but they only need pay a few hundred per employee so no biggie.

I don't know how they pay for it- but at least initially it's not the burden of GGG's "free" plan.

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
He's actually not a dumb guy. He wasn't bad before Congress either. And he's got a somewhat compelling case in his "I'm a scapegoat" defense. The word amongst politicos in DC (that I heard from drunken sources while screwed out of my tree at a hotel bar) was that Chertoff is a four star imbecile who will be on hiw way out as soon as it can be done in such a way as to not make it look like a firing for incompetence.

Does this mean he will go back to being a judge again? Fuuuuccckkk.

Quote:

I don't think, from what I've read, Brownie fucked up out of sheer stupidity. He just didn't care and never expected to deal with such a serious issue. He was a guy riding a good resume-building gig, like 9 out of 10 heads of agencies. He just happened to be the unlucky bastard who had a disaster happen on his watch.

Dissent. While he may have been scapegoated, any guy who sends emails about how he is a fashion god, and looks so good that someone else would vomit, is just not desperately trying to get aid to the citizens of a ravaged city. Just because Chertoff is an imbecile doesn't mean that Brownie isn't one too. With this administration, that seems to be a threshold requirement to run an agency.

Quote:

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
There are those who will argue that he is a right-wing nutcase who put on airs to get elected Governor, and others that will argue that he is really a moderate republican who is now putting on right-wing airs to get elected President.

I believe that in his heart of hearts he is a true right wing nutcase. This should make Slave happy.

He also has the most impressive sense of entitlement I have ever seen.

:violin:

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
:violin:

Chertoff, Brownie, and the Bush Administration during Katrina?

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
:violin:

Yeh, you should play that violin for Romeny and his wife.

She did an interview with Boston Magazine a few years ago where she talking about how she knew what it was like to live hand to mouth, because during business school she and Mitt had to "entertain" on nothing but a $10,000 per month distribution from his trust.

:violin:

Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Yeh, you should play that violin for Romeny and his wife.

She did an interview with Boston Magazine a few years ago where she talking about how she knew what it was like to live hand to mouth, because during business school she and Mitt had to "entertain" on nothing but a $10,000 per month distribution from his trust.

:violin:

Standing next to JFK and Mrs. Ketchup, she had a good point.

Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Chertoff is a four star imbecile

that was apparent when he stepped down from being a judge to run a massive bureaucracy with no direction or competence. He's surpassed ken starr, who went from DC Cir/S. Ct. short list to dean of pepperdine law school. Only the climate is more attractive there.