There was a debate????
 

Ask youself this question... Who is smarter? The kid who got someone else to do his homework or the kid doing the homework for someone else?

Isn't the only REAL currency we have time?

There was a debate????
 

I don't think so. If you are supposed to be the ticket of bi-partisanship and your job is to come to agreements on issues that the two parties might otherwise argue about and you don't even try because you control Congress and don't need to, I don't think your criticism can be that you didn't because Michael Moore was invited to the fucking convention.

The Administration is not dealing with Moore when it comes to the operation of the government. It is not dealing with Moveon.com. It is not dealing with Soros. It is supposed to be dealing with the elected officials that occupy the seats on the other side of the aisle. If you're telling me that they really wanted to be the ticket that brings back bi-partisanship but refused to try because the other side didn't agree with them then your argument couldn't be more weak.

TM

There was a debate????
 

And these academics are just as insecure as the type A Republican strivers who sell every last minute of their lives to make as much money as possible so society will accept them. So what? Both sides possess these metaphorically littled-dicked people. Fuck both of these groups for not having any self-confidence.

Welcome to the PB
 

So true, I didn't even catch him ripping on me.

There was a debate????
 

Thats true. If you accept that the best measure of success is amount of quality time, you'd have to say academics are the most successful people alive, next to people of fortunate birth and sports and rock stars.

Smart = loving what you do.

Dumb = trading hours for money.

I'm pretty fucking dumb, and so are most of the rest of us. But its my own fault, so I'm not about to blame it on the rules. I bought this deal with the devil.

Welcome to the PB
 

But that means you don't get the Gilligan posts:( :(

There was a debate????
 

I may WANT to play nice with you, and I may TELL YOU that I'll play nice with you, but that doesn't extend to sticking around as you smack me with a baseball bat and yell to mom that I'm not playing nice with you.

At some point, there's a need for cooperation from your side to make an attempt worthwhile. After Florida, it became clear that the Bush-hate was going to be the predominant emotion. I may tell mom that I'll play nice with you, but, if you then stand there yelling "shithead!" at me, well, maybe our failure to play doesn't all rest on me.

There was a debate????
 

Okay. But can you apply this analysis to what we're actually talking about? It may be true that people generally dislike when a rich kid gets richer when he hasn't a brain in his head. Do you think our society does reward the right factors? Is athleticism more important than intellect? Is an inheritance better than a hard-earned degree? Can you relate your statement back to what we're talking about somehow?

TM

There was a debate????
 

Wait. Are we talking about Kerry or W?

There was a debate????
 

I don't think W's is honorary.

There was a debate????
 

I ignored your post for a reason. Being the smartest at politics is different than being the smartest generally speaking. And if I refuse to change my positions because I live in a red state where all I have to do to win is say, "I will reduce taxes," [primarily for the rich without regard to the consequences], it doesn't make me stupid. It makes me principled.

TM

There was a debate????
 

Easy. Seb was speaking of how Ty's City on the Hill (New Ulm?) can only be reached if you, in fact, can win an election and put yourself into a position to help create that city. It's a lot like that SNL Dukakis debate line ("how the hell am I losing to this guy?!") He should have been winning, if voters valued the factors that he valued. Point was, they didn't. Lefty academics should be handsomely rewarded, if society valued the academics' gifts as highly as the academics do. Point was, they don't.

The new Florida.
 

It surely is, as it was in West Palm Beach.

There was a debate????
 

You sound like the idiot at work who measures his success by the value of the Bentley he drives.

Not only that, but you are probably the worst "schmoozer" within a 30 mile radius of yourself. You're the one who thinks he's getting over on everyone, schmoozing the cute female judge out of her robes with your lack of support for your arguments and your plain-speak when everyone else is wincing while they watch you make a fool of yourself.

TM

There was a debate????
 

There are lefties who are pie-in-the-sky-over-the-ivory-tower idealists, and there are those who aren't. Maybe there are more of the former in the Democratic Party because in this country, if all you care about is making yourself a pile of money and then using government power to protect your wad, the Republican Party is the party for you. Trying to defend the left from your attacks would be about as much fun as trying to defend it from bilmore's ranting, so I'll pass.

There was a debate????
 

Wait. What happens to the bees?

There was a debate????
 

You're right, but thats not what the left is saying. They keep screaming about how dumb Bush or the voters are, as though the winner were to be decided based on which side has the most combined IQ points, when it knows full well that's not the way the game is played. I say its pretty dumb to engage in a game where you know you'll lose if you refuse to follow the rules, lose, and subsequently blame the game. Thats not being principled at all - thats being dumb. If they were objectively smart, they'd beat Bush at his own game.

Principle's a funny animal. I'd say it unfortunately has very little application in a debate about the smartness of political campaigns.

There was a debate????
 

You are full of shit. Admit it was an empty campaign promise and move on. After you admit that to yourself, admit that Cheney was being a hypocrite when he tried to make a dig at Edwards as being not so memorable when he they met. If he had been doing his job of bringing the parties together (as promised and as he later said he regretted not doing a better job with) he wouldn't have said it.

TM

There was a debate????
 

The kid who read Tom Sawyer.

Censure?
 

According to Kos, the ethics committee is meeting now and will make a decision about DeLay today. There are quite a number of complaints against DeLay, so I'm not sure which one they're deliberating. Here's hoping it's Chris Bell's complaint.

more globL TESTS
 

Not sure what you mean here, but it appears that whichever descriptor you wish to assign to it, the talk was just a campaign stump speech.

And, apparently the TV media fell for it and televised the fucking thing. Nice, free advertising. It's a perk of the job, I guess. Think they'll televise a Kerry stump speech?

worth remembering
 

Whenever you hear Bush or Cheney or a campaign surrogate link Hussein and Zarqawi, or talk about how invading Iraq was supposed to help fight terrorism, remember that the White House blocked Pentagon efforts to take out Zarqawi for fear of undermining the case for the invasion:

• [A]s NBC News reported last March (and as almost nobody has picked up since), the Bush administration had several opportunities to bomb Zarqawi's camp well before the war. On at least two occasions the U.S. military drew up plans for an attack. But the White House rejected the proposals—mainly because shutting down Zarqawi's operation would have removed a key rationale for invading Iraq. This was a jaw-dropping bit of cynicism: Bush sold, and continues to sell, the war in Iraq as a major campaign in the global war on terrorism, yet he repeatedly passed up the chance to neutralize or kill one of the most dangerous terrorists (Zarqawi has spent much of his time lately chopping off the heads of foreign contractors) for fear of weakening the case for war.

Fred Kaplan in Slate today.

If the White House had let the Pentagon bomb Zarqawi's camp, maybe there'd be fewer people losing their heads these days.

There was a debate????
 

Ah. Had to go back and read Ty's post.

So if Bush wins a debate even though objectively speaking he is incapable of articulating his simple thoughts and wins because the average idiot out there has a knee-jerk reaction to "Vote for Kerry and we'll be attacked again" that amounts to pulling the lever for Bush, Kerry should adjust his approach -- in effect, lowering himself to the lowest common denominator.

TM

There was a debate????
 

I think they are actually trying to get people to vote for the person who they think is prepared to run, equipped to run and capable of running the country, not the guy they think would be fun to share a fucking beer with.

TM

There was a debate????
 

Either you are joking or you just proved my point abput the angry left.

Ty took a pass because I think my last little jibe hit too close to home.

This board is a prime example of people compartmentalizing the definition of "win" and missing the bigger picture. Whats a "win" in law? Being the smartest smarty pants with every fact and cite at the ready and appearing the smartest in the room at all times? Of course it is, you risk averse good little lawyer, you. Now, I may be a peacock, and I'm exactly the full of shit salesman you might loathe, but people remember me, and that gets even a young screwhead like me a little bit of business here and there, which the lefty kid sitting in the corner afraid to sound stupid ain't getting. But of course, you'll service whatever business is brought in much better than me. And thats good. For you. But my definition of winning is different than yours. I actually get a much bigger kick out of landing a client than I do in any other endeavor. Its only because I'm bored silly behind a desk that I even write on these boards.

People give money to people based on personality as much as skill. People vote on the same criteria. That may offend you intellectually, but denying it is pretty damn stupid. Stop. Thinking. Like. Such. A. Lawyer.

There was a debate????
 

Yes. That is the game. If every time you drive, you get an elbow in the mouth and the ref refuses to call it, do you just keep taking elbows to the teeth or elbow back?

There was a debate????
 

I can't remember who said this (maybe on TDS?), but someone pointed out, "I don't want my president to be the guy I'd like to have a beer with; I want my president to be the designated driver." Rather a nice way of putting it, I thought.

There was a debate????
 

Once again, you miss the point. I think you are convinced that you are good at things that I do not think you're good at. That clear enough for you?

Hell, I'm not angry at people who are good at those things. Good for them. I'm not even angry at you. But you ain't one of them.

If you were, you wouldn't take every opportunity to tell everyone on this board about it, would you? You would know it was obvious to the rest of us.

TM

There was a debate????
 

I think Nero said it first, but I first saw it on a Kinks disc back in the early 80s:

"Give the people what they want."

Its been the truest way to get power since men recorded history, and it ain't going to change because the left thinks its unfair.

Stand on principle if you like, but don't call your stand "smart" or gripe that you 'should've won". Although I guess you can claim "martyr" if you want.

There was a debate????
 

This is why you think Kerry took the Primaries? He was the candidate who would be the best President, not the candidate they somehow thought most electable? You'll fit in well here.

There was a debate????
 

What a stupid fucking analogy. If the refs let the Knicks get away with beating up on Jordan, does Jordan quite or does he show the refs by superior skill, brains and athleticism that he should be getting these obvious foul calls?

I don't know why I'm trying to get through to you.

TM

There was a debate????
 

did you vote for Clinton?

There was a debate????
 

Which one?

There was a debate????
 

Actually, no. I wouldn't. I think you'd be surprised if you met me. I can back up everything I say. I'm too gaddamned disogranized to lie.

Nothing is obvious to anyone on these boards. Nothing at all.

The source of my diatribe is having to actually do a lot of legal work, and not liking it. I'm stuck dealing for the past three weeks and I don't like it at all. And this topic led into one of my enternal gripes.

There was a debate????
 

Did I suggest he quit? No, my simple suggestion was elbowing back. Yours is just as fine, but how many Jordans are out there? For most of us, the only option is to elbow back.

Kerry is no Jordan.

You gripe a lot about not being able to get thru to lots of people. Did it ever occur to you that its you, not them?

There was a debate????
 

I get what you're saying, but what you mentioned Jordan did just made it a double bad analogy. What Jordan actually did was tell the media he wasn't getting the calls. That is what the Dems are trying.

There was a debate????
 

Only one of them would consider being a designated driver (albeit a bad one), the other is too self-centered.

There was a debate????
 

I took a pass because you were being a fucktard, or douchewit, or something, and these conversations about how 50% of the population are too idealistic are dumb. Here's a news flash: When I come to this board and post, I'm doing it because I enjoy the witty repartee, the exchange of ideas, the rapier thrust and parry -- not to regurgitate someone's talking points to get a Democrat elected. If I wanted to do that, I'd work on a campaign. I understand both Bush and Kerry must occasionally dumb things down to get elected. It's too bad, but there it is. So what am I supposed to feel threatened by, exactly? Sure there are Democrats with their heads up their asses. I'm sure some of them are walking the streets of Philadelphia right now, so why don't you go find them and tell them how dumb they are -- I personally don't feel like defending them, or Michael Moore.

There was a debate????
 

You should be making a Kennedy joke here instead.

There was a debate????
 

I don't need help w/ Kennedy- 3 reasons I went that way

1- she said for Prez
2- the 2 Clintons made it humorously ambiguous
3- I refuse to do Teddy K. jokes as a statement of what you all are missing, and what have cost us, with the lost of Penske.