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-   -   Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years! (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=885)

Hank Chinaski 08-13-2022 03:33 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 533389)
Does Dogbert hate Mondays? I know Garfield sure does. But you know what Garfield loves? Lasagna. When I think back on my Garfield-reading days, sometimes I wonder why it is that the fact that Garfield loves lasagna is so funny that the entire plot of some 60-70% of the Garfield cartoons that I read back then is that Garfield loves lasagna. But those were simpler times, when it was universally acknowledged that a lasagna-eating cat was endlessly hilarious, and when it would have been unusual for someone to become so mad about the fact that the FBI took back classified nuclear documents stolen by an ex-president and kept in an unsecure location, that they would try to storm an FBI office alone and then commit suicide-by-cop.

Simpler times ….
Once Trump gets re-elected Scott Adams is getting a Kennedy Center honor!

Replaced_Texan 08-15-2022 02:51 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533391)
I had the same thought. But then if they don’t charge, Trump declares himself an innocent victim of DOJ.

Maybe Garland doesn’t care. Perhaps in a politically impossible spot he just figured it’s most important to get the stuff out of Trump’s hands.
My husband was USMC in the early 90s with TS and TS/SCI clearance, and he's pretty outraged about the cavalier attitude about this shit from people who should fucking know better. He says he would have been locked up for taking a single page from a CONFIDENTIAL (lowest level) folder home. Almost 30 years later, he still won't talk about any of the stuff he saw because he takes it that seriously. And they monitored the hell out of people who had the clearance/access. He said he got a talking to because he was late for a car payment. They absolutely do not want anyone to have anything on you, if you have access to that kind of information. Tracks with what Wanda Sykes said about working for the NSA. I imagine a lot of folks who had/have that kind of access are pretty fucking pissed right now.

I'm a HIPAA privacy officer who also handles subpoenas and open records requests. With the reports on how the White House used to handle sensitive information last week, and Alex Jones's lawyer's fuck up the week before, I've broken out in hives. I, too, have sent law enforcement to the homes of former employees to retrieve sensitive information after repeated attempts to get the info less aggressively have failed. I usually just want the info back, but then I don't have authority to do much else if they no longer work for us.

I think anyone who has ever signed an NDA with Trump should be allowed to handle the information on Trumpworld as well as they handled classified US information.

sebastian_dangerfield 08-16-2022 10:11 AM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 533393)
You just made Dilbert’s shit-list. I don’t think Phase 2 is going to go well for you.

https://twitter.com/ScottAdamsSays/s...7Ctwgr%5Etweet
What's he going to do? Erase me from the world?

He's fucking nuts. I listened to a podcast years ago in which Sam Harris, who, like him or not, is a purely logic, linear, eminently linear thinker, sought to elicit an admission from Adams that Trump was a compulsive liar.

This is, even if you're a Trump fan, an objective fact like, say... gravity.

Adams drove Harris nuts for the better part of an hour, until Harris gave up. https://lawliberty.org/scott-adams-v...esident-trump/

Adams argued that Trump tells an "emotional truth" and isn't beholden to reality because he's marketing. Adams' view is so convoluted (and I think his psyche organically disordered) I got lost twenty minutes into his commentary and was unable to ascertain wtf he was saying other than to excuse Trump for quite literally every fucked up thing he's ever done.

sebastian_dangerfield 08-16-2022 10:27 AM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 533395)
My husband was USMC in the early 90s with TS and TS/SCI clearance, and he's pretty outraged about the cavalier attitude about this shit from people who should fucking know better. He says he would have been locked up for taking a single page from a CONFIDENTIAL (lowest level) folder home. Almost 30 years later, he still won't talk about any of the stuff he saw because he takes it that seriously. And they monitored the hell out of people who had the clearance/access. He said he got a talking to because he was late for a car payment. They absolutely do not want anyone to have anything on you, if you have access to that kind of information. Tracks with what Wanda Sykes said about working for the NSA. I imagine a lot of folks who had/have that kind of access are pretty fucking pissed right now.

I'm a HIPAA privacy officer who also handles subpoenas and open records requests. With the reports on how the White House used to handle sensitive information last week, and Alex Jones's lawyer's fuck up the week before, I've broken out in hives. I, too, have sent law enforcement to the homes of former employees to retrieve sensitive information after repeated attempts to get the info less aggressively have failed. I usually just want the info back, but then I don't have authority to do much else if they no longer work for us.

I think anyone who has ever signed an NDA with Trump should be allowed to handle the information on Trumpworld as well as they handled classified US information.
We'll never know why Trump took those records. People like to assume nefarious goals, but it's just as likely incompetence, arrogance (they're mine), and paranoia (they're confidential to me and my team alone), or all four combined.

We've all dealt with people accused of civil fraud who seem to make a habit of it and often succeed in it. They seem to simply ignore rules. I'm not talking about willful ignorance. I'm talking about ignorance as policy - simply not observing rules unless they're thrust upon one.

It's impossible to pin fraud on these people because they honestly don't know wtf they're doing. They just don't care. They seem to follow a policy of "I'll do what I want unless and until stopped from doing so." Sure, they follow the big rules we all know one can't violate (outright, obvious crimes), but they never look at the fine print rules. So any accusation involving intent becomes nearly impossible to prove. (One always winds up settling for a negligent misrepresentation claim instead of fraud when suing them.)

I don't think Trump would know or give a fuck about document handling rules if his life depended on it. That shit's beneath him, work for the eggheads. Except he had no eggheads. He had sycophants. And this allows him a second level of defense - in addition to lack of intent, the argument somebody else was responsible. (He's going to use this one on Giuliani in GA soon, I think.)

He's so sheltered, so clueless, and so unaware of anything beyond the immediate that I believe him when he says he thought he could declassify the docs and walk off with them. In his ADD addled pea brain he probably figured, in Nixonian fashion, when the President says its declassified, it's declassified.

God only knows how many people he showed the allegedly sensitive stuff he held on heads of state. "Vinnie, look, I'm not paying you the $500 for losing that match because I quit on hole 17 to take a phone call. I'm POTUS... I can do that. But come in my office and check out these photos of Macron with the housekeeper. And you really gotta see these crazy nukes Kim Jong Un has been building."

Icky Thump 08-16-2022 01:15 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533397)
we'll never know why trump took those records.
that’s what the money is for.

Hank Chinaski 08-16-2022 01:38 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 533398)
that’s what the money is for.
Do you know anything about this Camp Lajeune stuff?

Replaced_Texan 08-16-2022 01:39 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533397)
We'll never know why Trump took those records. People like to assume nefarious goals, but it's just as likely incompetence, arrogance (they're mine), and paranoia (they're confidential to me and my team alone), or all four combined.

We've all dealt with people accused of civil fraud who seem to make a habit of it and often succeed in it. They seem to simply ignore rules. I'm not talking about willful ignorance. I'm talking about ignorance as policy - simply not observing rules unless they're thrust upon one.

It's impossible to pin fraud on these people because they honestly don't know wtf they're doing. They just don't care. They seem to follow a policy of "I'll do what I want unless and until stopped from doing so." Sure, they follow the big rules we all know one can't violate (outright, obvious crimes), but they never look at the fine print rules. So any accusation involving intent becomes nearly impossible to prove. (One always winds up settling for a negligent misrepresentation claim instead of fraud when suing them.)

I don't think Trump would know or give a fuck about document handling rules if his life depended on it. That shit's beneath him, work for the eggheads. Except he had no eggheads. He had sycophants. And this allows him a second level of defense - in addition to lack of intent, the argument somebody else was responsible. (He's going to use this one on Giuliani in GA soon, I think.)

He's so sheltered, so clueless, and so unaware of anything beyond the immediate that I believe him when he says he thought he could declassify the docs and walk off with them. In his ADD addled pea brain he probably figured, in Nixonian fashion, when the President says its declassified, it's declassified.

God only knows how many people he showed the allegedly sensitive stuff he held on heads of state. "Vinnie, look, I'm not paying you the $500 for losing that match because I quit on hole 17 to take a phone call. I'm POTUS... I can do that. But come in my office and check out these photos of Macron with the housekeeper. And you really gotta see these crazy nukes Kim Jong Un has been building."
This tracks with my thinking, especially since I'm pretty sure (based off multiple reports from various vectors with interactions with him over decades) he's borderline illiterate. At the most generous, he's not exactly one who curls up with a good book. Or a dry report. He probably hasn't actually read the vast majority of what was in those boxes. And that makes it almost scarier, because he's either relying on other people or he's just keeping them for keeping them's sake. Probably both.

Rules don't apply to him, and they never have (see, reading speculation above, against academic credentials that suggest otherwise). At least to his way of thinking. His great gift is getting other people to his way of thinking. He absolutely knows what that particular rule is because he gleefully signed the law STRENGTHENING it as some sort of Gotcha over the Clinton emails. He just didn't think they apply to him.

I keep thinking back to my husband's missed car payment and Wanda Sykes' stereo. Trump's credit situation is not exactly known to be great. And the man is not known to be driven by his better angels when it comes to anything that either makes him a buck or gets him out of having to pay.

Even if no charges are brought forward and it is an "oops, sorry, in our rush to get out, we grabbed these too and forgot for six months to give it back even though you asked over and over again," getting that stuff back is absolutely critical.

Tyrone Slothrop 08-16-2022 02:22 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533396)
What's he going to do? Erase me from the world?

He's fucking nuts. I listened to a podcast years ago in which Sam Harris, who, like him or not, is a purely logic, linear, eminently linear thinker, sought to elicit an admission from Adams that Trump was a compulsive liar.

This is, even if you're a Trump fan, an objective fact like, say... gravity.

Adams drove Harris nuts for the better part of an hour, until Harris gave up. https://lawliberty.org/scott-adams-v...esident-trump/

Adams argued that Trump tells an "emotional truth" and isn't beholden to reality because he's marketing. Adams' view is so convoluted (and I think his psyche organically disordered) I got lost twenty minutes into his commentary and was unable to ascertain wtf he was saying other than to excuse Trump for quite literally every fucked up thing he's ever done.
This is the best thing I have read in a while to explain why people like Adams act like they act and say what they say.

Tyrone Slothrop 08-16-2022 02:24 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533397)
We'll never know why Trump took those records. People like to assume nefarious goals, but it's just as likely incompetence, arrogance (they're mine), and paranoia (they're confidential to me and my team alone), or all four combined.

We've all dealt with people accused of civil fraud who seem to make a habit of it and often succeed in it. They seem to simply ignore rules. I'm not talking about willful ignorance. I'm talking about ignorance as policy - simply not observing rules unless they're thrust upon one.

It's impossible to pin fraud on these people because they honestly don't know wtf they're doing. They just don't care. They seem to follow a policy of "I'll do what I want unless and until stopped from doing so." Sure, they follow the big rules we all know one can't violate (outright, obvious crimes), but they never look at the fine print rules. So any accusation involving intent becomes nearly impossible to prove. (One always winds up settling for a negligent misrepresentation claim instead of fraud when suing them.)

I don't think Trump would know or give a fuck about document handling rules if his life depended on it. That shit's beneath him, work for the eggheads. Except he had no eggheads. He had sycophants. And this allows him a second level of defense - in addition to lack of intent, the argument somebody else was responsible. (He's going to use this one on Giuliani in GA soon, I think.)

He's so sheltered, so clueless, and so unaware of anything beyond the immediate that I believe him when he says he thought he could declassify the docs and walk off with them. In his ADD addled pea brain he probably figured, in Nixonian fashion, when the President says its declassified, it's declassified.

God only knows how many people he showed the allegedly sensitive stuff he held on heads of state. "Vinnie, look, I'm not paying you the $500 for losing that match because I quit on hole 17 to take a phone call. I'm POTUS... I can do that. But come in my office and check out these photos of Macron with the housekeeper. And you really gotta see these crazy nukes Kim Jong Un has been building."
You are totally wrong. Trump is not unaware of the rules. They are for other people, not for him. When he says he declassified the documents, he doesn't mean that he declassified them for other people. He means, he decided he doesn't have to follow the law. That's essential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 533400)
Rules don't apply to him, and they never have (see, reading speculation above, against academic credentials that suggest otherwise). At least to his way of thinking. His great gift is getting other people to his way of thinking. He absolutely knows what that particular rule is because he gleefully signed the law STRENGTHENING it as some sort of Gotcha over the Clinton emails. He just didn't think they apply to him.
Yes, exactly. Rules are for other people, not for him.

sebastian_dangerfield 08-16-2022 02:26 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 533400)
This tracks with my thinking, especially since I'm pretty sure (based off multiple reports from various vectors with interactions with him over decades) he's borderline illiterate. At the most generous, he's not exactly one who curls up with a good book. Or a dry report. He probably hasn't actually read the vast majority of what was in those boxes. And that makes it almost scarier, because he's either relying on other people or he's just keeping them for keeping them's sake. Probably both.

Rules don't apply to him, and they never have (see, reading speculation above, against academic credentials that suggest otherwise). At least to his way of thinking. His great gift is getting other people to his way of thinking. He absolutely knows what that particular rule is because he gleefully signed the law STRENGTHENING it as some sort of Gotcha over the Clinton emails. He just didn't think they apply to him.

I keep thinking back to my husband's missed car payment and Wanda Sykes' stereo. Trump's credit situation is not exactly known to be great. And the man is not known to be driven by his better angels when it comes to anything that either makes him a buck or gets him out of having to pay.

Even if no charges are brought forward and it is an "oops, sorry, in our rush to get out, we grabbed these too and forgot for six months to give it back even though you asked over and over again," getting that stuff back is absolutely critical.
Regarding his illiteracy, I've been going back and forth with a few people are "absolutely incensed" at the raid. The common theme from the right is, "This is going to backfire in the midterms."

Well... Maybe it would, or maybe it wouldn't.

But we'll never know. Because you know who's ensuring that what might've been a red wave will not be one? Trump. By supporting idiots in the primaries, he ensured that the GOP will lose three, maybe four Senate seats it could have won. The GOP is pulling back on TV buys in Arizona and Pennsylvania right now because those senate races are so over already that CNN could start projecting them today.

And yet these people who support Trump still - still - insist that somehow he is still a positive for the GOP, rather than a Titanic sized anchor.

Trump is illiterate, and illogical. And this is why he connects so well to so many.

sebastian_dangerfield 08-16-2022 02:28 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533402)
You are totally wrong. Trump is not unaware of the rules. They are for other people, not for him. When he says he declassified the documents, he doesn't mean that he declassified them for other people. He means, he decided he doesn't have to follow the law. That's essential.



Yes, exactly. Rules are for other people, not for him.
It's both. He's not aware of them unless they're in his face (the Hillary document issue was a marketing angle for him, so he learned about that). But even when he is aware of them, he's dumb enough to think he can simply ignore them via his own personal declassification.

He's a demented, semi-senile spoiled brat who's never matured past age 16.

Tyrone Slothrop 08-16-2022 03:48 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533404)
It's both. He's not aware of them unless they're in his face (the Hillary document issue was a marketing angle for him, so he learned about that). But even when he is aware of them, he's dumb enough to think he can simply ignore them via his own personal declassification.

He's a demented, semi-senile spoiled brat who's never matured past age 16.
No, you're wrong. It's not that he's dumb enough to think he can ignore them.

To quote a semi-famous comment on Marginal Revolution:

Quote:
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
Trump supporters do not need to know anything about the law to decide that the Mar-a-Lago FBI raid offends them, that Trump can declassify documents by thinking about it and nothing more, that a cop (or Kyle Rittenhouse) is justified in using deadly force against a protestor, that Hillary should be locked up. Calling Trump dumb misses a really key part of what's he's about.

Pretty Little Flower 08-16-2022 04:42 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533396)
He's fucking nuts. I listened to a podcast years ago in which Sam Harris, who, like him or not, is a purely logic, linear, eminently linear thinker, sought to elicit an admission from Adams that Trump was a compulsive liar.

This is, even if you're a Trump fan, an objective fact like, say... gravity.

Adams drove Harris nuts for the better part of an hour, until Harris gave up. https://lawliberty.org/scott-adams-v...esident-trump/

Adams argued that Trump tells an "emotional truth" and isn't beholden to reality because he's marketing. Adams' view is so convoluted (and I think his psyche organically disordered) I got lost twenty minutes into his commentary and was unable to ascertain wtf he was saying other than to excuse Trump for quite literally every fucked up thing he's ever done.
Listening to that podcast seems like a good way to waste several weeks of my life in just an hour.

Quote:
What's he going to do? Erase me from the world?
Don’t fuck with unhinged cartoonists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7JyjZI3LUM

Icky Thump 08-16-2022 05:01 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 533399)
Do you know anything about this Camp Lajeune stuff?
I do. 30 cumulative days there between 8/53 and 12/87 (even in utero)
And many cancers, Parkinson’s or many other diseases qualify. Send me a dm here with a contact email (no details) and I’ll respond.

Replaced_Texan 08-16-2022 06:47 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 533407)
I do. 30 cumulative days there between 8/53 and 12/87 (even in utero)
And many cancers, Parkinson’s or many other diseases qualify. Send me a dm here with a contact email (no details) and I’ll respond.
I was apparently the fourth person to get in touch with my husband about it. He was stationed there in the early 90s, so he doesn't qualify. Thankfully, he does not have any cancers or other diseases.

He said that while they were there, the water issue was a known thing they used to joke about. The internet algorithms have figured out that he has some sort of connection there. He's been followed by the ads for a few weeks now.

Pretty Little Flower 08-16-2022 08:32 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 533394)
Once Trump gets re-elected Scott Adams is getting a Kennedy Center honor!
It is Bukowski’s birthday.

Hank Chinaski 08-16-2022 10:37 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 533409)
It is Bukowski’s birthday.
For Buk to get a Kennedy Center honor we’d need like Teddy Kennedy to become president.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 08-17-2022 10:06 AM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pretty Little Flower (Post 533389)
Does Dogbert hate Mondays? I know Garfield sure does. But you know what Garfield loves? Lasagna. When I think back on my Garfield-reading days, sometimes I wonder why it is that the fact that Garfield loves lasagna is so funny that the entire plot of some 60-70% of the Garfield cartoons that I read back then is that Garfield loves lasagna. But those were simpler times, when it was universally acknowledged that a lasagna-eating cat was endlessly hilarious, and when it would have been unusual for someone to become so mad about the fact that the FBI took back classified nuclear documents stolen by an ex-president and kept in an unsecure location, that they would try to storm an FBI office alone and then commit suicide-by-cop.

Simpler times ….
Years ago someone took Garfield out of the cartoons. It was just Jon talking to himself and it was glorious.

Tyrone Slothrop 08-17-2022 07:30 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 533411)
Years ago someone took Garfield out of the cartoons. It was just Jon talking to himself and it was glorious.
https://garfieldminusgarfield.net

Genius.

Pretty Little Flower 08-17-2022 10:29 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533412)
The two on this page are so good. Particularly the top one. So good. And so raw.

https://garfieldminusgarfield.net/page/7

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 08-18-2022 11:28 AM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533397)
We'll never know why Trump took those records. People like to assume nefarious goals, but it's just as likely incompetence, arrogance (they're mine), and paranoia (they're confidential to me and my team alone), or all four combined.
I wouldn't assume we won't find out. This also could be a simple case of selling secrets to fund his next bigger and better insurrection. I mean, that a long and honored tradition for deposed despots.

Adder 08-18-2022 02:47 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 533408)
I was apparently the fourth person to get in touch with my husband about it. He was stationed there in the early 90s, so he doesn't qualify. Thankfully, he does not have any cancers or other diseases.

He said that while they were there, the water issue was a known thing they used to joke about. The internet algorithms have figured out that he has some sort of connection there. He's been followed by the ads for a few weeks now.
I've gotten two robocalls about it. I have nothing at all to do with it.

Just realized there's a decent chance my FIL was there during the relevant time period.

sebastian_dangerfield 08-21-2022 02:11 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533401)
This is the best thing I have read in a while to explain why people like Adams act like they act and say what they say.
I don't think this is the best thing on the subject. The point it makes about Trumpism effectively being a new religion (he doesn't explicitly say that, but he clearly indicates that's what it is) is spot-on.

Noah Rothman recently did a book about progressivism being a "New Puritanism" and is all over the news on a book tour right now. I think he's improperly focusing on progressivism and should also cite Trumpism as a new form of fundamentalist religion. As the author of the piece you cited notes, Trump's guilt is immaterial. To get behind him is an act of faith, and faith is, like this definition or not, an act of self-delusion. One is choosing to put aside powers of reason and observation and believe in something that all but assuredly isn't and for which there's zero proof.

But other assessments are incorrect:
What makes this situation worse is that there is no remedy for it. When people are driven by fantasies, by resentment, by an internalized sense of inferiority, there is no redemption in anything. Winning elections, burning effigies, even shooting at other citizens does not soothe their anger but instead deepens the spiritual and moral void that haunts them.
It is only a portion of Trumpists, the own-the-libs and nativists, who fit this description. A significant portion of Trumpland I see in this purple state doesn't want to control others. I honestly don't think it gives a shit. It's people who want to be left alone. They have a strong independent streak and view Trump and the GOP as instruments to retain personal and local control. They don't like taxes, regs, or federal mandates on how their kids are schooled. They don't resent "elites" (they'd laugh at this author's suggestion they're jealous) and don't want to change laws. They just want to be left alone.

How big is this slice of Trumpland? I don't know. But I'd guess it's a healthy percentage.

My guess is these people dislike Trump about as much as anyone else. They just figure then enemy of my enemy is my friend.

. . .

Another point I'd note is, this author makes an error someone took me to task for making a couple weeks ago. I was joking with a moderate friend of mine that people who suspect the election was fixed are idiots and not worth addressing. I explained how an election cannot be rigged, as I have some first hand experience in how they're managed.

He asked me "Why is it invalid for a person on the right to despair over how the country is changing?" I defended that believing the election was fixed was failing to grasp basic facts. He and I have similar politics. He agreed with that but asserted the bias that allows for such suggestibility is valid. I had to admit I didn't have an response to the argument that a person feeling like his country is changing in ways he doesn't like isn't automatically disqualified form offering an opinion.

It is okay to see what's happening in the country and not like it.

That doesn't sound controversial. But then I considered how I'd replied to people with that position in the past. I'd call them knaves, Don Quixotes tilting at economic and demographic changes they've no prayer of stanching. Many others would reflexively call them bigots and racists. And those indictments certainly apply to many of them.

But again, abstractly, to lament or seek to stand athwart change is not an automatically invalid, or even deviant, position. It is, technically, a view that has a seat at the table. And I think the recent branding of conservatism as entirely deviant is fueling its degradation into right wing populism.

When a conservative says, just by way of example, "The border is too easily breached," the response should be, "Well, we tried to fix that with immigration reform, but by electing an extremist like Trump, the GOP screwed that up for everyone." The answer should not be, "That is a xenophobic perhaps racist view that deserves no reply."

Negation never works. It just pisses people off and convinces them that the issue really is binary, and their only choice is to pick a side in our dysfunctional political war.

Tyrone Slothrop 08-22-2022 04:20 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533416)
I don't think this is the best thing on the subject. The point it makes about Trumpism effectively being a new religion (he doesn't explicitly say that, but he clearly indicates that's what it is) is spot-on.

Noah Rothman recently did a book about progressivism being a "New Puritanism" and is all over the news on a book tour right now. I think he's improperly focusing on progressivism and should also cite Trumpism as a new form of fundamentalist religion. As the author of the piece you cited notes, Trump's guilt is immaterial. To get behind him is an act of faith, and faith is, like this definition or not, an act of self-delusion. One is choosing to put aside powers of reason and observation and believe in something that all but assuredly isn't and for which there's zero proof.

But other assessments are incorrect:
What makes this situation worse is that there is no remedy for it. When people are driven by fantasies, by resentment, by an internalized sense of inferiority, there is no redemption in anything. Winning elections, burning effigies, even shooting at other citizens does not soothe their anger but instead deepens the spiritual and moral void that haunts them.
It is only a portion of Trumpists, the own-the-libs and nativists, who fit this description. A significant portion of Trumpland I see in this purple state doesn't want to control others. I honestly don't think it gives a shit. It's people who want to be left alone. They have a strong independent streak and view Trump and the GOP as instruments to retain personal and local control. They don't like taxes, regs, or federal mandates on how their kids are schooled. They don't resent "elites" (they'd laugh at this author's suggestion they're jealous) and don't want to change laws. They just want to be left alone.

How big is this slice of Trumpland? I don't know. But I'd guess it's a healthy percentage.

My guess is these people dislike Trump about as much as anyone else. They just figure then enemy of my enemy is my friend.

. . .

Another point I'd note is, this author makes an error someone took me to task for making a couple weeks ago. I was joking with a moderate friend of mine that people who suspect the election was fixed are idiots and not worth addressing. I explained how an election cannot be rigged, as I have some first hand experience in how they're managed.

He asked me "Why is it invalid for a person on the right to despair over how the country is changing?" I defended that believing the election was fixed was failing to grasp basic facts. He and I have similar politics. He agreed with that but asserted the bias that allows for such suggestibility is valid. I had to admit I didn't have an response to the argument that a person feeling like his country is changing in ways he doesn't like isn't automatically disqualified form offering an opinion.

It is okay to see what's happening in the country and not like it.

That doesn't sound controversial. But then I considered how I'd replied to people with that position in the past. I'd call them knaves, Don Quixotes tilting at economic and demographic changes they've no prayer of stanching. Many others would reflexively call them bigots and racists. And those indictments certainly apply to many of them.

But again, abstractly, to lament or seek to stand athwart change is not an automatically invalid, or even deviant, position. It is, technically, a view that has a seat at the table. And I think the recent branding of conservatism as entirely deviant is fueling its degradation into right wing populism.

When a conservative says, just by way of example, "The border is too easily breached," the response should be, "Well, we tried to fix that with immigration reform, but by electing an extremist like Trump, the GOP screwed that up for everyone." The answer should not be, "That is a xenophobic perhaps racist view that deserves no reply."

Negation never works. It just pisses people off and convinces them that the issue really is binary, and their only choice is to pick a side in our dysfunctional political war.
He is not explaining the behavior of people like your moderate friend, or for that matter most Trump voters. He is describing the behavior of the people who present the threat of violence. For that matter, I'm not sure that fits Scott Adams, but Adams is using his megaphone to agitate those people.

I don't think it helps much to compare Trump supporters "beliefs" to religion. You say,
To get behind him is an act of faith, and faith is, like this definition or not, an act of self-delusion. One is choosing to put aside powers of reason and observation and believe in something that all but assuredly isn't and for which there's zero proof.
I don't think faith plays much of a role at all (and it's silly to say that faith is ipso facto delusion). Loudly insisting on things that other people disbelieve is one way of signaling group solidarity. There's no sacrifice to expressing group solidarity by saying things that are reasonable, but when you loudly insist on things that are patently false, you are making a statement about conviction.

A great many people vote for Trump because they're on the right, and he was their candidate. They're not the ones dragging things to the crazy, they're just along for the ride. They are not interested in violence which is what the thing that I linked was about.

Calling woke progressivism a New Puritanism seems like a really good way to show that you don't know anything about Puritanism.

Replaced_Texan 08-31-2022 04:03 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
I understand the reluctance, but they have to prosecute him. Don't they??

The evidence is pretty overwhelming, and this is just one filing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-ap...P4R4.jpg&w=916

Icky Thump 08-31-2022 06:13 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 533418)
I understand the reluctance, but they have to prosecute him. Don't they??

The evidence is pretty overwhelming, and this is just one filing.
They may be waiting for him to have a heart attack or something.

Hank Chinaski 08-31-2022 09:58 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 533419)
They may be waiting for him to have a heart attack or something.
A night in jail may help that…..

Adder 09-01-2022 11:47 AM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Replaced_Texan (Post 533418)
I understand the reluctance, but they have to prosecute him. Don't they??

The evidence is pretty overwhelming, and this is just one filing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-ap...P4R4.jpg&w=916
He had stolen state secrets. He knew he had stolen state secrets. He didn't give them back when asked. He (through his lawyer) lied about having given them all back.

Anyone else would already be in jail, but as the former guy, he isn't just anyone else. I wonder if it will take actual evidence of having shown them to a foreign actor to get him actually prosecuted.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-01-2022 02:26 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 533421)
He had stolen state secrets. He knew he had stolen state secrets. He didn't give them back when asked. He (through his lawyer) lied about having given them all back.

Anyone else would already be in jail, but as the former guy, he isn't just anyone else. I wonder if it will take actual evidence of having shown them to a foreign actor to get him actually prosecuted.
I think the crux of the matter is that he is convinced that they are his documents, and the guy from Judicial Watch (among others?) echoed that and told him what they wanted to hear. Lots of the other bullshit is because he is playing a PR game, not a working a legal matter.

He is wrong, of course, but I think that's what he believes.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-02-2022 06:11 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533422)
I think the crux of the matter is that he is convinced that they are his documents, and the guy from Judicial Watch (among others?) echoed that and told him what they wanted to hear. Lots of the other bullshit is because he is playing a PR game, not a working a legal matter.

He is wrong, of course, but I think that's what he believes.
I'm also coming around to the idea that a Special Master is not such a bad thing.

Adder 09-03-2022 02:22 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533423)
I'm also coming around to the idea that a Special Master is not such a bad thing.
Seems kinda of irrelevant.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-07-2022 05:17 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Anyone know if it's worth a schlep to see The English Beat live?

Oliver_Wendell_Ramone 09-07-2022 07:34 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533425)
Anyone know if it's worth a schlep to see The English Beat live?
Adder's last response seems every bit as appropriate here!

My understanding is it's just Dave and some hired guns, presumably including someone who can do a decent Ranking Roger impersonation.

Hank Chinaski 09-07-2022 09:13 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliver_Wendell_Ramone (Post 533426)
Adder's last response seems every bit as appropriate here!

My understanding is it's just Dave and some hired guns, presumably including someone who can do a decent Ranking Roger impersonation.
That sucks. I saw two bands from that era in the last several years. Gang of Four flooded the show with new songs, which wasn’t something anyone was there for. But Tom Tom Club was great. Older but still moving.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-08-2022 01:36 PM
or most elevated?
 
Proud father alert: At 3:30 am this morning, after walking from Yosemite on the John Muir Trail for the last fortnight+, the eldest Wee Slothrop summited Mount Whitney and was the highest person in the continental United States.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-08-2022 01:38 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 533427)
That sucks. I saw two bands from that era in the last several years. Gang of Four flooded the show with new songs, which wasn’t anyone was there for. But Tom Tom Club was great. Older but still moving.
If Dave Wakeling and some other guys were doing an English Beat tribute show near me, I would go. So I guess I just need to decide whether it's worth it to get myself to Berkeley on a Friday night.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-09-2022 01:00 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 533419)
They may be waiting for him to have a heart attack or something.
If he hasn't had it by now, I don't think it's possible. We just have to accept he is constructed of space age polymers which cannot be destroyed by natural stressors.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-09-2022 01:08 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adder (Post 533424)
Seems kinda of irrelevant.
He took shit that said "Top Secret" on it. There's no defense that he didn't understand he shouldn't have taken it. When those words appeared on it, knowledge of a duty to ask whether removal of such documents from the WH was illegal is imparted to him (and any other non-blind person).

His only defense I see is an assertion that he did not look in the boxes - a "blame the staff" argument. But that seems to fall on its face because DOJ was asking for the return of items and at that point he had to have knowledge that he had stuff he shouldn't have had. He can't claim he was not involved in returning the things he returned or retaining those he was supposed to return. Nobody - not even Trump - is that clueless and detached.

On his best day he's in the willful ignorance bucket.

Now the Ds and Rs should get together and tell him they'll agree not to prosecute if he agrees not to run for office again. He has to agree to toll the stat of lims indefinitely. If he breaks the deal, he gets prosecuted.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-09-2022 03:20 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533431)
He took shit that said "Top Secret" on it. There's no defense that he didn't understand he shouldn't have taken it. When those words appeared on it, knowledge of a duty to ask whether removal of such documents from the WH was illegal is imparted to him (and any other non-blind person).

His only defense I see is an assertion that he did not look in the boxes - a "blame the staff" argument. But that seems to fall on its face because DOJ was asking for the return of items and at that point he had to have knowledge that he had stuff he shouldn't have had. He can't claim he was not involved in returning the things he returned or retaining those he was supposed to return. Nobody - not even Trump - is that clueless and detached.

On his best day he's in the willful ignorance bucket.

Now the Ds and Rs should get together and tell him they'll agree not to prosecute if he agrees not to run for office again. He has to agree to toll the stat of lims indefinitely. If he breaks the deal, he gets prosecuted.
The Marco Rubios of the world are scared of his supporters, and unwilling to do that. And by "the Marco Rubios of the world," I am mostly referring to the entire, shrunken, striving, statureless, shameless, ambitious, gutless Republican Party.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-09-2022 03:39 PM
Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533432)
The Marco Rubios of the world are scared of his supporters, and unwilling to do that. And by "the Marco Rubios of the world," I am mostly referring to the entire, shrunken, striving, statureless, shameless, ambitious, gutless Republican Party.
If he runs in the next GOP primary, is it realistic to think that anyone can beat him? It's his party, isn't it?

Our best hope is that he's lazy and doesn't want to do the work needed, and that he's afraid of losing again.


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