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TexLex 02-10-2005 01:34 PM

On a lighter note.....
 
I called poison control yesterday. It seems a 31lb 14mo old needs to eat about 60 Tums Ultra before causing himself any damage other than constipation. He only ate a couple. And really really liked them.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-10-2005 02:32 PM

On a lighter note.....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by TexLex
I called poison control yesterday. It seems a 31lb 14mo old needs to eat about 60 Tums Ultra before causing himself any damage other than constipation. He only ate a couple. And really really liked them.
On our older kids, when they've had complaints that appear to fit into the category of "pissy mood, looking for attention", we've used fractions of a tums as a placebo. Works like a charm - they feel a bit of relief to the stomach they've tied in knots, and they get some comfort from being given it. Yeh, it's a cheap way out and I feel bad about it.

We've also convinced them that a quick rub down with massage oil has extraordinary thereputic results. But this one seems to work on adults as well as kids.

Flinty_McFlint 02-10-2005 03:04 PM

On a lighter note.....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by TexLex
I called poison control yesterday. It seems a 31lb 14mo old needs to eat about 60 Tums Ultra before causing himself any damage other than constipation. He only ate a couple. And really really liked them.
31 lbs at 14 months? I'm sure he really really liked the Tums. I'm also sure he really really likes pretty much anything else you put in front of him. My goodness, that's a big baby--you have done good. Do I see a future linebacker/defensive end in the TexLex family?

Trepidation_Mom 02-10-2005 04:47 PM

On a lighter note.....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Flinty_McFlint
31 lbs at 14 months? I'm sure he really really liked the Tums. I'm also sure he really really likes pretty much anything else you put in front of him. My goodness, that's a big baby--you have done good. Do I see a future linebacker/defensive end in the TexLex family?
The Trepidation Tyke appears to be heading that way, too. He's 24 and change at 8 months. His auntie is horrified, because her 2 year old is only 25 pounds, and I think she's just realized that he has a long lifetime ahead of him of getting beaten up by his younger cousin.

Funny, I'd been thinking how he'd slimmed down recently. I guess it's all muscle from how much he runs around all over the place. Well, he only really "runs" holding onto things so far, but he crawls faster than I can jog, and tries to climb everything in sight like a monkey. I'm terrified of what he will try to do once he can walk around upright on his own, which is looking like it'll be any second now. We may need to put a bell on him. Or a tether.

TexLex 02-10-2005 08:54 PM

On a lighter note.....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Flinty_McFlint
31 lbs at 14 months? I'm sure he really really liked the Tums. I'm also sure he really really likes pretty much anything else you put in front of him. My goodness, that's a big baby--you have done good. Do I see a future linebacker/defensive end in the TexLex family?
He's a good eater, no doubt, but I am horribly strict about what he eats - no sugar*, nothing fun at all (though I let him eat as much fruit and veg as he wants, which he loves). Thankfully he is also tall with it (97% height, off the chart for weight), so he's roughly proportional.

If the Mr. has anything to do about it, the kid will play football. If I do, he won't. Not that I am anti-sports: I bought him a BB hoop and have taught him to clap and yell "Basket"** when it goes in.

Trep. Mom - I bought the Lexling a leash yesterday. Well, a harness. He doesn't seem to mind and now I can let him out of the stroller/cart at the store/mall/whatever and not worry about him running riot. The growth really slows down after 9mos and some lose weight. The Lexling weighed 27lbs at 8mos (I think) and only 29.5 at 12mos.

-TL

*I realize eventually I won't be able to control these things, but he's 14mos old right now and I can so I will. Damnit.

**OK, he can't exactly say Basket, but he does say "Bakka!!!" and that's good enough for me.

TexLex 02-10-2005 08:56 PM

On a lighter note.....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Yeh, it's a cheap way out and I feel bad about it.
No you don't.

Sidd Finch 02-13-2005 03:39 PM

Why a daycare center might be the best choice after all
 
Quote:

Originally posted by TexLex
In case anyone was interestd in hiring a nanny, you can go ahead and cross THIS woman off your list. She'll be busy for about the next 15 years.
That's sick.

She was taking care of a 4yo, and they were watching Die Hard?

Trepidation_Mom 02-14-2005 01:01 PM

Why a daycare center might be the best choice after all
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
That's sick.

She was taking care of a 4yo, and they were watching Die Hard?
My sitter let me see the Blob at 4. I only got through the first few minutes, and it scarred me for life. I still can't really cope with grape jelly.

Secret_Agent_Man 02-14-2005 03:24 PM

On a lighter note.....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Trepidation_Mom
The Trepidation Tyke appears to be heading that way, too. He's 24 and change at 8 months. His auntie is horrified, because her 2 year old is only 25 pounds, and I think she's just realized that he has a long lifetime ahead of him of getting beaten up by his younger cousin.
That is huge, but the weight gain can slow down fast too. Secret _Agent_Toddler was about 28 lbs at 18 months, but is only about 30-31 lbs at 27 months. Did grow several inches, though.

Secret_Agent_Baby is in the vicinity of 12 lbs+ at 2 months -- so we'll see how that one turns out.

S_A_M

Trepidation_Mom 02-16-2005 02:37 PM

Article on why we're out of our minds
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6959880/site/newsweek/

Super article on crazy-making mommy-dom. (First-class child care costs more that state uni tuition? I gotta get me somma dat.)

Trepidation Mom

Tyrone Slothrop 02-16-2005 04:33 PM

green eye goop
 
The small one is sick, and has lots of green eye goop. The doctor's office was unimpressed with his purported fever, but changed its tune immediately when presented with allegations of green eye goop. What's up with that?

Secret_Agent_Man 02-16-2005 05:14 PM

Article on why we're out of our minds
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Trepidation_Mom
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6959880/site/newsweek/

Super article on crazy-making mommy-dom. (First-class child care costs more that state uni tuition? I gotta get me somma dat.)
An interesting article. While I hesitate to begin this conversation, I can't help but think that the generation of "super-moms" she discusses are operating under largely self-imposed pressure to give their kids lots of things/activities/stimulation/etc. without stopping to consider that that they never had all that as children and that these kids don't truly need all that in order to grow up as decent, educated, productive, and sucessful citizens.

[OK, there is plenty of societal pressure too from the legions of other crazies and the industries that have grown up around them. But no one _has_ to play the game.]

Here is one snippet from the article. My responses in brackets:

"Women today mother in the excessive, control-freakish way that they do in part because they are psychologically conditioned to do so. [Yep.] But they also do it because, to a large extent, they have to. [Why?] Because they are unsupported [either "horseshit" and/or "get a new husband and/or immediate family"], because their children are not taken care of, in any meaningful way, by society at large. [And they should be?] Because there is right now no widespread feeling of social responsibility—for children, for families, for anyone, really [What in the world does this mean?]—and so they must take everything onto themselves. [Nonsense.] And because they can't, humanly, take everything onto themselves, they simply go nuts."

No, many mothers go nuts because they try to take on everything and do everything. They [and many fathers] go nuts because they fall into the trap of believing that their child must go to the _best_ preschool so that she can get into Harvard someday. They believe that their child should go to the best ballet class and the best playgroup _and_ participate in five sports with three travel teams in order to achieve their full potential as human beings. They believe that hosting a class party for six year olds actually requires them to paint paper plates, buy gifts for everyone and color coordinate all the linens with their underwear.

One human can only do so much -- and what one mother can do is enough for a child. If you want to stop, just stop. Maybe not easy, but it is simple.

S_A_M

Hank Chinaski 02-16-2005 06:16 PM

green eye goop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The small one is sick, and has lots of green eye goop. The doctor's office was unimpressed with his purported fever, but changed its tune immediately when presented with allegations of green eye goop. What's up with that?
It just sounds interesting- everyone gets bored mid-week.

ABBAKiss 02-16-2005 06:45 PM

Article on why we're out of our minds
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
They believe that hosting a class party for six year olds actually requires them to paint paper plates, buy gifts for everyone and color coordinate all the linens with their underwear.
I don't have kids, but if I did, I would always go commando, which seems to kill several birds with one stone. Nothing to coordinate! No need for linens! Saves time on laundry!

I should have my own parenting advice show on TV.

Tyrone Slothrop 02-16-2005 08:15 PM

green eye goop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The small one is sick, and has lots of green eye goop. The doctor's office was unimpressed with his purported fever, but changed its tune immediately when presented with allegations of green eye goop. What's up with that?
Survey says: Conjunctivitis.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-17-2005 12:59 PM

Article on why we're out of our minds
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ABBAKiss
I don't have kids, but if I did, I would always go commando, which seems to kill several birds with one stone. Nothing to coordinate! No need for linens! Saves time on laundry!

I should have my own parenting advice show on TV.
Mama!

taxwonk 02-17-2005 01:08 PM

green eye goop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
The small one is sick, and has lots of green eye goop. The doctor's office was unimpressed with his purported fever, but changed its tune immediately when presented with allegations of green eye goop. What's up with that?
Any time any part of the human body starts producing green discharge, it's evidence of infection. Yes, even boogers.

ltl/fb 02-17-2005 01:34 PM

green eye goop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
Any time any part of the human body starts producing green discharge, it's evidence of infection. Yes, even boogers.
Any time the body runs a fever, it's evidence of infection.

TexLex 02-17-2005 01:53 PM

green eye goop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Any time the body runs a fever, it's evidence of infection.
Mostly, but little kids' temps go up from crying too much, running around, too many blankies, teething.... A low grade fever in a (not-newborn) baby is not cause for alarm w/o more.

That said, Eww. Pink-eye. Keep that little infected booger-eyed baby far away from this house, Ty! Seriously, hope he's feeling better.

BTW, the Lexling reports for his 15mo weigh-in this afternoon, so we'll see if he's grown any.

ltl/fb 02-17-2005 02:15 PM

green eye goop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by TexLex
Mostly, but little kids' temps go up from crying too much, running around, too many blankies, teething.... A low grade fever in a (not-newborn) baby is not cause for alarm w/o more.

That said, Eww. Pink-eye. Keep that little infected booger-eyed baby far away from this house, Ty! Seriously, hope he's feeling better.

BTW, the Lexling reports for his 15mo weigh-in this afternoon, so we'll see if he's grown any.
Aside from teething, those aren't fevers.

OscarCrease 02-17-2005 03:50 PM

Toot & Puddle
 
Did I miss it or has the fundamentalist right been asleep at the wheel, still drunk on the results of the last two presidential elections? When Clinton was in office, Teewinkie (or whatever that Teletubby's name was) almost got lynched and here we are in year 5 of the reign of George II and Toot & Puddle appear to be living in a blatant civil union unmolested by the thought police. Any theories on this?

taxwonk 02-17-2005 04:04 PM

green eye goop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Any time the body runs a fever, it's evidence of infection.
In younger people, fevers aren't as relaible a predictor as discharge, but your point is well taken.

Hank Chinaski 02-17-2005 04:26 PM

green eye goop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
Any time the body runs a fever, it's evidence of infection.
Those times you feel sick in the head, and go on your rants- are those infection driven?

TexLex 02-17-2005 10:01 PM

Toot & Puddle
 
Quote:

Originally posted by OscarCrease
Did I miss it or has the fundamentalist right been asleep at the wheel, still drunk on the results of the last two presidential elections? When Clinton was in office, Teewinkie (or whatever that Teletubby's name was) almost got lynched and here we are in year 5 of the reign of George II and Toot & Puddle appear to be living in a blatant civil union unmolested by the thought police. Any theories on this?
They've been busy with their campaigns against Spongebob and that PBS postcard rabbit - Buster (?).

viet_mom 02-17-2005 11:52 PM

Why a daycare center might be the best choice after all
 
Quote:

Originally posted by TexLex
For a full range of hidden nannycams, click HERE.
Interesting. That link is to a company called "Know Your Nanny" and I bought a nanny cam from this company,which is really just one cool guy who happens to live in my state. He is really great. This was a year ago and Viet Babe was expressing angst when I turned her over to the new Nanny of 2 weeks (scrupulously hired as per the advice books on interviewing and references). Viet Babe didn't normally show that angst with others. I HAD to go to a work event the next day (a Friday) and was nervous about leaving her so I called the guy after finding his website on a Thursday night. He said he'd rush the cam over to me so I'd get it "first thing the next [Friday] morning". Well, darn, the thing showed up at 6 am, enabling me to set it up Friday morning before the Nanny even arrived at my house for work. The guy even gave me his cell number and told me to call him the next morning with questions about installation (and I did). I was able to set that puppy up before the Nanny even got to my house for work. Then I left for work/the event.

It was a clock radio (functional) which I put in the living room near the TV which broadcact the sofa area everyone usually hangs out on to watch TV. The transister thingey was in the room above on the second floor, hooked up to an old VCR recording. I left that morning amazed that I didn't even think of a cam until Thursday night and now I had it and it was all hooked up, with even time for a dry run before she got there. I watched it when she left Friday night.

Like will never be the same. I had to go to my neighbors who I hardly knew to ask them to watch it with me. I then had an attorney watch it familiar with criminal law and we agonized whether to turn it over to the prosecutor's office. Instead, my Dad (also a lawyer) and I called her and fired her.

The nanny cam guy told me that of all people who cam -- even those people who cam their caregivers "just to make sure but don't have suspicions" -- some huge percentage (I think 80%) fire the Nanny within 24 hours. That is a really large percentage, and I fell within it. Daycare for us, forever more. PS - that guy is REALLY nice and when I gave the cam to my sister a year later, he didn't mind that she bugged him with questions on the cam. I can't say enough good things about him and his company, Know Your Nanny. To think I'd have waited a week for a cam, subjecting the Babe to another week of the Nanny From Hell is beyond comprehension. Before I was a privacy freak, and a big believer in trust after due diligence. Now, I'm a cam advocate.

Of course, realize that you'll see things you don't like such as the Nanny watching too much TV or being lazy or spending too much time on the phone and letting the child do things they aren't supposed to do usually. This you have to think about hard and don't jump to conclusions. Maybe the problem will be fixed with a talk. On the other hand, if you are watching a video showing a lady watching TV as your child screams for 2 hours in their crib upstairs long after their nap time is over, or someone refusing to touch or pick up a crying 1 year old whose hands are reaching out to the Nanny, or a Nanny who sleeps on an armchair for 3 hours as your kid runs rampant, then that's something different. Anyone planning to cam will help themselves immensely by (before using the cam) making a list of potential new nannies or day cares, and having all phone numbers handy because if you watch the tape and are freaked out, it's comforting to know you have at least started finding backup. Cam them on a Friday so you have the day off the next day to freak out and get help from friends and family.

Sorry about the long post. I obviously am pretty opinionated about this.

Vietmom

viet_mom 02-17-2005 11:55 PM

PS
 
PS - Splurge for the camera that gives you audio, and not just visual. Otherwise, you won't know if your kid is screaming in their crib. Or if she is saying inappropriate things to your kid. Or even yelling.

Trepidation_Mom 02-18-2005 12:28 PM

PS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by viet_mom
PS - Splurge for the camera that gives you audio, and not just visual. Otherwise, you won't know if your kid is screaming in their crib. Or if she is saying inappropriate things to your kid. Or even yelling.
But know the laws first - you trigger federal wiretap laws once sound is involved, and most states have far more stringent laws protecting people from audio recording than video.

(As I discovered when a friend found (soundless) naked video of herself on the 'net, obviously filmed by a camera installed in her bathroom by some maintenance person in her building, and there was fuck-all she could do about it.)

mmm3587 02-18-2005 12:36 PM

Why a daycare center might be the best choice after all
 
Quote:

Originally posted by viet_mom
...Maybe the problem will be fixed with a talk. On the other hand, if you are watching a video showing a lady watching TV as your child screams for 2 hours in their crib upstairs long after their nap time is over, or someone refusing to touch or pick up a crying 1 year old whose hands are reaching out to the Nanny, or a Nanny who sleeps on an armchair for 3 hours as your kid runs rampant, then that's something different....
Is this the stuff that she was doing, or is there something more? Not that any of those things are acceptable; I'm just curious.

Hank Chinaski 02-18-2005 02:10 PM

PS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Trepidation_Mom
(As I discovered when a friend found (soundless) naked video of herself on the 'net, obviously filmed by a camera installed in her bathroom by some maintenance person in her building, and there was fuck-all she could do about it.)
Was that a normal day for her, or did she a bigger than usual lunch?

Secret_Agent_Man 02-18-2005 02:30 PM

Why a daycare center might be the best choice after all
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mmm3587
Is this the stuff that she was doing, or is there something more? Not that any of those things are acceptable; I'm just curious.
IIRC, among other things, the nanny also ate the child's food and then lied about it to VM.

S_A_M

mmm3587 02-18-2005 05:51 PM

PS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Trepidation_Mom
But know the laws first - you trigger federal wiretap laws once sound is involved, and most states have far more stringent laws protecting people from audio recording than video.

(As I discovered when a friend found (soundless) naked video of herself on the 'net, obviously filmed by a camera installed in her bathroom by some maintenance person in her building, and there was fuck-all she could do about it.)
Are there any actual cites on these things? Those are both definitely the opposite of how things should be, in my opinion.

I am skeptical as fuckall that it is illegal to record the normal (i.e. not in the bathroom or the shower or somewhere else with a different kind of expectation of privacy) activities of someone, including sound, in your own home, even if they are your employee or your guest.

Similarly, I am extremely skeptical that there was nothing illegal and nothing that could be done about a naked silent video of someone in her own bathroom taken by a camera illicitly placed by a camera person.

viet_mom 02-20-2005 10:34 AM

Why a daycare center might be the best choice after all
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mmm3587
Is this the stuff that she was doing, or is there something more? Not that any of those things are acceptable; I'm just curious.
There were a lot of things. As soon as you saw me on the video leave the house, she stuck her head in the seat of an armchair and said some weird prayer where she banged her head against the cushion seat, but hey, the prayer included a request for the Lord to watch over all the drivers including me so what the hell. It was also funny b/c the cushion seat had been saturated with cat pee for quite some time and was still nasty despite my efforts with Odormute© (armchair since peed on so bad it was dragged out onto street corner in middle of night and cat also gone, dragged into all night clinic and sold the farm).

Unfortunately, that was the only humorous part of the video. Essentially, she watched TV programs all day and ate VB's food and ignored and refused to touch VB all day - she would "shoosh" VB out of the way when she bothered the sitter who never left the armchair. She let VB cry in the crib for a long time while she finished watching one of her programs. VB would hold her hands up to her to be held and sitter would ignore her and tell her she was a spoiled child. A few times VB ventured over to attempt to "play" with the sitter, who swatted her away. VB finally gave up and spent all day slumped in a corner of the room weeping, in an unchanged diaper, unfed. A few hours before I was to come home, sitter fell asleep in the chair for several hours. When I watched the video I had to fast forward this part for a while. VB ran rampant during this time. Still, the Sitter still hadn't taken out any toys for VB to play with.

She eventually woke up, saw the clock show I'd be home soon and so she tossed VB some crackers. Then she changed VB and used the broom to clean up the crackers on the rug. Then the video shows me coming home, walking into the living room where both had spent their day. VB rushed to me and jumped in my arms, while the sitter waxed dramatically about the fun-filled day and how well VB had eaten, etc.

The "sound" portion of video/cams had already been tested high up in my state's courts. But I'm not sure I would have cared. You cam in a way the person doesn't know they're being cam'd. If your state says it is illegal then maybe if the sitter is being prosecuted in a criminal court, her attorney tries to have it kept out of evidence. Whatever. At least you know what she did so you could fire her and get your kid out of the situation.

viet_mom 02-20-2005 10:40 AM

Why a daycare center might be the best choice after all
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mmm3587
Is this the stuff that she was doing, or is there something more? Not that any of those things are acceptable; I'm just curious.
I should also add that my chapstick was next to the radio/cam so I got a nice, big, fat close-up of the sitter using my chapstick. Applied so it touched her big fat tongue. That alone was worth the $500 for the cam. I might still have that chapstick were it not for the cam. God Save The People.

Trepidation_Mom 02-22-2005 01:03 PM

PS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mmm3587
Are there any actual cites on these things? Those are both definitely the opposite of how things should be, in my opinion.
You'd think. The wiretap laws predate widespread video recording and it's just not covered. Cites? I dunno, I learned about it at some CLE thing the local Bar sponsored - ethics credits, you know.

Quote:

I am skeptical as fuckall that it is illegal to record the normal (i.e. not in the bathroom or the shower or somewhere else with a different kind of expectation of privacy) activities of someone, including sound, in your own home, even if they are your employee or your guest.
You may be right, but one should know the laws to be sure one falls within the applicable exceptions. For instance, I recall that under some state laws you need the consent of all parties to record conversations - even if it is your house. (Who says you don't learn anything useful at CLEs?)
Quote:

Similarly, I am extremely skeptical that there was nothing illegal and nothing that could be done about a naked silent video of someone in her own bathroom taken by a camera illicitly placed by a camera person.
Well, go figure. She was pretty sure it was a super/custodian/repair guy in her building, and since she gave him access to fix stuff she couldn't claim tresspassing, and the camera ran on a battery (so there wasn't the "theft of electricity" hook that can sometimes be used to get around the fact that, sans sound, filming isn't usually itself illegal).

Something's not illegal just because it is invasive and humilliating and turned to profit by others, and nanny cams exploit one of the loopholes of what hasn't yet been made illegal. (And they are one of the reasons it probably won't be made illegal.)

TexLex 02-22-2005 01:20 PM

FWIW
 
You only need one party to consent in Texas. I have a recorder on my office phone that isn't used often, but it's there when I need it.

viet_mom 02-23-2005 08:03 AM

FWIW
 
Quote:

Originally posted by TexLex
You only need one party to consent in Texas. I have a recorder on my office phone that isn't used often, but it's there when I need it.
Usual caveats for other people's research but these two sites are handy in listing which states are "one party" consent and which are "all party" consents.

http://www.pimall.com/nais/n.recordlaw.html
http://www.rcfp.org/taping/
(The latter site is great, with hotlinks to each state's law)

The list has the following as the only states with "all party" rules.

California
Connecticut
Delaware
Florida
Illinois
Maryland
Massachusetts
Michigan
Montana
New Hampshire
Pennsylvania
Washington

viet_mom 02-23-2005 11:06 PM

Fun....
 
...is in preparation for your overnight guests, opening up your new (delivered November) sleeper sofa and having problems figuring out how to pull out the damn bed and then recoiling in horror when you realize there is nothing in there to pull out. Lesson: check to make sure the sofa is a sleeper WHEN IT IS DELIVERED. I paid the extra few hundred to buy the thing as a sleeper and the guy who sold me the furniture now says the invoice only says "sofa" so bugger off. Is there any profession shadier than the furniture sales business?

Don't answer that.

ltl/fb 02-24-2005 12:04 AM

Fun....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by viet_mom
...is in preparation for your overnight guests, opening up your new (delivered November) sleeper sofa and having problems figuring out how to pull out the damn bed and then recoiling in horror when you realize there is nothing in there to pull out. Lesson: check to make sure the sofa is a sleeper WHEN IT IS DELIVERED. I paid the extra few hundred to buy the thing as a sleeper and the guy who sold me the furniture now says the invoice only says "sofa" so bugger off. Is there any profession shadier than the furniture sales business?

Don't answer that.
That sucks. The blow-up mattresses you can get at, say, Target are quite comfortable, if you need something immediately and don't have anything.

TexLex 02-24-2005 04:09 PM

Fun....
 
Quote:

Originally posted by viet_mom
I paid the extra few hundred to buy the thing as a sleeper and the guy who sold me the furniture now says the invoice only says "sofa" so bugger off.
Bastard. I just this minute finished typing up a Deceptive Trade Practices petition: if you have something like that where you are, a nasty letter might be worth a) getting the right sofa and b) your own amusement.

If you get an inflatable, get a pump for it - preferably a little electric one so your guests do not arrive to find you dead and blue on the floor.

Atticus Grinch 02-25-2005 03:02 AM

Vegas
 
Anyone ever taken kids to Vegas? Would you recommend doing it, and what if anything would be fun for an ~4yo? Did you do the drive to the Grand Canyon?


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