LawTalkers

LawTalkers (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/index.php)
-   Politics (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630)

SlaveNoMore 09-23-2004 05:14 PM

AWOL
 
Quote:

Sidd Finch
Slave, you're too smart to say things this stupid. Believe it or not, people who disagree with you are not all pro-terrorist. Get your head out of your ass, and stop expressing mock horror that the Dem candidate for president is actually on the campaign trail.
1) Point: Kerry met with enemy leaders while this country was engaged in a War and soldiers were being held hostage. In some corners, this is treason.

I'm sure your counterpoint will be nothing more than "So, what?"

2) I'm not expressing mock horror. I'm expressing shock that Kerry's handlers are so fucking incompetant that they are letting his campaign run itself into the ground by ignoring all of these fantastic opportunities to finally do something "presidential"

Not Bob 09-23-2004 05:28 PM

AWOL
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
1) Point: Kerry met with enemy leaders while this country was engaged in a War and soldiers were being held hostage. In some corners, this is treason.
All sorts of non-US governmental people met in Paris with VC/NV officials. Henry Kissenger, for example (and I mean before Nixon won the election).

And, speaking of unofficial diplomacy with foreign leaders, I'm sure that you have the same problem with private citizen Richard Nixon reaching out to South Vietnamese President Theiu (via his old friends Madame Chiang and Anna Chennault) to scuttle the possible Vietnam peace deal worked out in October 1968. Some might call that treason, too.

Say_hello_for_me 09-23-2004 05:31 PM

AWOL
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
All sorts of non-US governmental people met in Paris with VC/NV officials. Henry Kissenger, for example (and I mean before Nixon won the election).

And, speaking of unofficial diplomacy with foreign leaders, I'm sure that you have the same problem with private citizen Richard Nixon reaching out to South Vietnamese President Theiu (via his old friends Madame Chiang and Anna Chennault) to scuttle the possible Vietnam peace deal worked out in October 1968. Some might call that treason, too.
Like you are going to get someone to defend Nixon. As if.

bilmore 09-23-2004 05:35 PM

Here's what we'll be discussing all NEXT week . . .
 
Here's part of Terry McAuliffe's speech on 9/8, nine hours BEFORE the Dan Rather Fiction Hour:

"George W. Bush's cover story on his National Guard service is rapidly unraveling. ... George W. Bush needs to answer why he regularly misled the American people about his time in the Guard and who applied political pressure on his behalf to have his performance reviews 'sugarcoated.'" (Terence Hunt, "Questions Raised About Bush Guard Service," The Associated Press, 9/9/04)

Here's the phrase in the forged memo that CBS released to all, for the first time, during the Rather Fiction Hour:

"Harris gave me a message today from Grp regarding Bush's OETR and Staudt is pushing to sugar coat it."

Can you say "coordination"?

bilmore 09-23-2004 05:36 PM

AWOL
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I'm expressing shock that Kerry's handlers are so fucking incompetant that they are letting his campaign run itself into the ground . . .
After Iowa, they thought that was their mandate.

Gattigap 09-23-2004 05:39 PM

AWOL
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Me
Thanks for your non-response. This is just another example of a man who is about nothing but himself and places himself above everything else.
Ah. So your indignation is not that the candidate holds office while campaigning for another one, it's that the candidate did not arrive to vote on lopsided issues where he would not have changed the outcome.

I have not held Bush up to the "Do Texas No Harm" standard during his 2000 campaign, so I've not bothered to fisk it. But I might suggest that presidential campaigns being what they are, EVERY candidate ends up shirking his/her official duties to some degree, so you'd better save up that outrage.

I'd call this "just another example of people who are inclined to hate Kerry and reach the same conclusion based on the way he parts his hair."

To-ma-to, to-mah-to.

baltassoc 09-23-2004 05:43 PM

AWOL
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Well, throwing the switch only takes a few moments, so I doubt that the Guv was terribly inconvenienced by official duties.
Now, now. No exagerating. Gov. Bush did not have the power to actually flip the switch in any execution. Nor did he have the power to commute any sentence (rather, a governor in Texas can issue a stay pending a review by an independant board).

But this does beg a couple of questions. Bush did in fact spend a substantial amount of time outside of Texas in 2000, forcing Perry to step in an act as the executive in his absence. Senators do not have the luxury of having a proxy. Additionally, most gubenatorial duties can be conducted within a flexible time frame: bills can be signed anytime, anyplace, within a several day time period. US Senate votes take place only in one place, at a time decided by leaders who believe it to be in their best interest to make life difficult for Sen. Kerry.

The idea that Kerry should take time off from campaigning to go to Washington to vote on particular matters is absurd: the second he shows up in town, the Republicans will postpone the vote.

ETA: I can't get the Google archive link to work. Cut and paste:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache...postpone&hl=en

Gattigap 09-23-2004 05:46 PM

AWOL
 
Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
Now, now. No exagerating. Gov. Bush did not have the power to actually flip the switch in any execution. Nor did he have the power to commute any sentence (rather, a governor in Texas can issue a stay pending a review by an independant board).
You're right, of course.

Sorry. The enthusiasm of the "he's dead now" quotes from 2000 confused me a bit about the extent of his involvement.

Shape Shifter 09-23-2004 05:47 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
And in related news, House GOPers have placed to a vote today a federal law forbidding courts from ruling on challenges to the Pledge of Allegiance.

We've had the earlier debates on the constitutionality of this kind of jurisdiction stripping, so I won't belabor them here.

But could someone please put a leash on these fools? The Supremes already slapped down challenges to constitutionality of "under God," and Our Leader has assured us that in a second term the judiciary will be filled with Right-Thinking Judges.

So be cool. No need to bend and break the constitution when help is at hand to save the country's oppressed Baptists.
Holy shit, they passed it. Think of how handy this strategy will be when the Dems recapture both houses.

bilmore 09-23-2004 05:52 PM

AWOL
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
I'd call this "just another example of people who are inclined to hate Kerry and reach the same conclusion based on the way he parts his hair."
Bush gets about 15% of his votes from these people. Kerry gets about 65% of his votes from the Dem counterparts.

bilmore 09-23-2004 05:56 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
Holy shit, they passed it. Think of how handy this strategy will be when the Dems recapture both houses.
Am I reading this correctly? They passed legislation amending the Constitution?

Cool. I didn't even know they could DO that.

Gattigap 09-23-2004 05:59 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Am I reading this correctly? They passed legislation amending the Constitution?

Cool. I didn't even know they could DO that.
Neither did Congress. That's the magic of it.

Replaced_Texan 09-23-2004 06:03 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Am I reading this correctly? They passed legislation amending the Constitution?

Cool. I didn't even know they could DO that.
The House did. Here's hoping for rationality in the Senate. Of course the Senate may also want to "protect an affirmation of religion that is part of the national heritage."

Gattigap 09-23-2004 06:05 PM

Another resounding victory in the War on Terror
 
Liechtenstein ratifies the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, bringing to 116 the number of nations endorsing the pact.

France, Belgium and Germany could not be more relieved. Bush extolls as evidence of progress in WOT.

bilmore 09-23-2004 06:08 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
The House did. Here's hoping for rationality in the Senate. Of course the Senate may also want to "protect an affirmation of religion that is part of the national heritage."
Seems to me that, when you're about to re-elect a Repub prez for four more years, with the likelihood of appointing one or more SC justices, that's exactly when you DON'T want to start futzing with the jurisdiction of that court.

(Yeah, I understand that this'll never pass the Senate, and it's just a way to be able to say in campaign lit "Rep. Smith (D) voted to allow the court to prohibit Gawd from our schools!", but, damn, this is just stoopid . . . .)

bilmore 09-23-2004 06:12 PM

Another resounding victory in the War on Terror
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Liechtenstein ratifies the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty, bringing to 116 the number of nations endorsing the pact.

France, Belgium and Germany could not be more relieved. Bush extolls as evidence of progress in WOT.
I bet the debate before the vote was funny.

"But, we don't even have . . . ."

"I know, I TOLD them . . . "

"What if we vote "no"?

"Oh, god, don't make me start laughing again, my stomach already hurts . . . "

SlaveNoMore 09-23-2004 06:13 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Replaced_Texan
The House did. Here's hoping for rationality in the Senate. Of course the Senate may also want to "protect an affirmation of religion that is part of the national heritage."
Hell, all someone has to do is utter the word "fillibuster" and its as good as dead.

bilmore 09-23-2004 06:22 PM

The Windsurfer
 
The new ad with Kerry the windsurfer is getting reaction:

"The Kerry campaign reacted angrily to the ad, charging that its "lighthearted" approach was inappropriate in the middle of a war."

(I'm not sure if they wrote this up before or after Kerry appeared with Dr. Phil and Regis.)

((Yeah, I stole this from someone else. I'd cite it, but I forgot who it was.))

(((Remembered. The Kerry Spot.)))

ilikenewsocks 09-23-2004 06:23 PM

Another resounding victory in the War on Terror
 
The world will not truly be safe, however, until Vanuatu and East Timor are also signatories. Any progress there?

SlaveNoMore 09-23-2004 06:28 PM

The Windsurfer
 
Quote:

bilmore
The new ad with Kerry the windsurfer is getting reaction:

"The Kerry campaign reacted angrily to the ad, charging that its "lighthearted" approach was inappropriate in the middle of a war."

(I'm not sure if they wrote this up before or after Kerry appeared with Dr. Phil and Regis.)

((Yeah, I stole this from someone else. I'd cite it, but I forgot who it was.))
You forgot the Letterman Top 10 list.

Speaking of funny, Zsa Zsa is at it again. Haven't they locked her away in Switzerland yet?

Teresa being interviewed in Arizona:
  • 12 News Reporter: Most of the polls are tracking that Sen John Kerry as doing a better job on the economy. My question is, why hasn’t that transferred overall in the poll numbers?

    Teresa: It has, of course. Of course it has.

    Reporter: He’s still down.

    Teresa: He’s not. Did you see the polls today? You saw Zogby and ARG —

    Reporter: Yes, but he’s still down in Arizona.

    Teresa: Oh, who cares? You know, one state is not a whole state. In the whole United States, he is even, even, and in some of them one point ahead, and in some one point behind.
Chalk up AZ in the Red column.

Gattigap 09-23-2004 06:31 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Hell, all someone has to do is utter the word "fillibuster" and its as good as dead.
Deriving comfort from that tactic to excuse GOP legislative initiatives is funny, especially given that many GOPers want to eliminate the filibuster, no?

bilmore 09-23-2004 06:35 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Deriving comfort from that tactic to excuse GOP legislative initiatives is funny, especially given that many GOPers want to eliminate the filibuster, no?
Okay, to be fair, you stop filibustering judges and let them up for votes, and we'll stop with the pledge silliness. Deal?

SlaveNoMore 09-23-2004 06:36 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Gattigap
Deriving comfort from that tactic to excuse GOP legislative initiatives is funny, especially given that many GOPers want to eliminate the filibuster, no?
Am I deriving comfort from this tactic?

Personally, I think that anyone who refuses to recite the Pledge should be either jailed or deported.

Gattigap 09-23-2004 06:38 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Okay, to be fair, you stop filibustering judges and let them up for votes, and we'll stop with the pledge silliness. Deal?
Had I confidence that GOPers would live up to the deal if Kerry wins in November*, I'd take it.






* Or, for that matter, even if Bush does.

SlaveNoMore 09-23-2004 06:39 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

bilmore
Okay, to be fair, you stop filibustering judges and let them up for votes, and we'll stop with the pledge silliness. Deal?
At least let's go back to the old-school honest-to-goodness fillibuster, which lasts for days and literally shuts down all other business.

It's this "fillibuster-lite" BS that is the problem.

Gattigap 09-23-2004 06:39 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Am I deriving comfort from this tactic?

Personally, I think that anyone who refuses to recite the Pledge should be either jailed or deported.
Say what you will about his music, rumor is this is the reason behind Cat Stevens' deportation.

Replaced_Texan 09-23-2004 06:43 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Personally, I think that anyone who refuses to recite the Pledge should be either jailed or deported.
Ignoring the First Amendment (hey, Congress can do it...), I'm thinking that you'd run into some First Commandment issues there.

I'm still thinking that I missed out on the Schoolhouse Rock that explained "an affirmation of religion that is part of the national heritage."

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 09-23-2004 06:47 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan

I'm still thinking that I missed out on the Schoolhouse Rock that explained "an affirmation of religion that is part of the national heritage."
No, but you definitely missed out on the Simpsons explanation of how legislation works:
  • Amendment-to-Be

    Boy: (spoken) Hey, who left all this garbage lying on the steps of Congress?

    Amendment: (spoken) I'm not garbage.
    (sung) I'm an amendment to be,
    Yes, an amendment to be,
    And I'm hoping that they'll ratify me,
    There's a lot of flag burners,
    Who have got too much freedom,
    I wanna make it legal,
    For policemen to beat 'em,
    'Cause there's limits to our liberties.
    'Least I hope and pray that there are,
    'Cause those liberal freaks go too far.

    Boy: (spoken) But why can't we just make a law against flag burning?

    Amendment: (spoken) Because that law would be unconstitutional.

    But if we changed the Constitution...

    Boy: (spoken) Then we could make all sorts of crazy laws!

    Amendment: (spoken) Now you're catching on!

    Boy: (spoken) But what if they say you're not good enough to be in the Constitution?

    Amendment: (sung) Then I'll destroy all opposition to me,

    And I'll make Ted Kennedy pay,
    If he fights back,
    I'll say that he's gay!

    Fat Senator: (running up) Good news, Amendment! They ratified 'ya. You're in the U.S. Constitution!

    Amendment: (spoken, estatic) Oh, yeah! Door's open, boys!

Not Me 09-23-2004 06:50 PM

AWOL
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Ah. So your indignation is not that the candidate holds office while campaigning for another one, it's that the candidate did not arrive to vote on lopsided issues where he would not have changed the outcome.
Kerry has missed 90% of the votes this year. It isn't about lopsided issued. The senate was not voting on lopsided issues 90% of the time.

SlaveNoMore 09-23-2004 06:50 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Gattigap
Say what you will about his music, rumor is this is the reason behind Cat Stevens' deportation.
The niceties of "Peace Train" aside, when you refer to him as Yusef Islam and look at the anti-West comments he's made over the years (and his verbal support of the fatwah for the death of Salman Rushdie), it makes perfect sense to me.

Gattigap 09-23-2004 06:55 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The niceties of "Peace Train" aside, when you refer to him as Yusef Islam and look at the anti-West comments he's made over the years (and his verbal support of the fatwah for the death of Salman Rushdie), it makes perfect sense to me.
I have read more about this guy since he's been cooling his heels in Bangor. Interesting how he's made the transition from kooky music star to just kooky.

bilmore 09-23-2004 06:58 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The niceties of "Peace Train" aside, when you refer to him as Yusef Islam and look at the anti-West comments he's made over the years (and his verbal support of the fatwah for the death of Salman Rushdie), it makes perfect sense to me.
If you play Mona Bone Jakon backwards, it gives you instructions for making belt bombs.

bilmore 09-23-2004 06:58 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Interesting how he's made the transition from kooky music star to just kooky.
Bite your tongue, you musically-challenged barbarian.

(ETA) And there's my flight.

Sidd Finch 09-23-2004 07:01 PM

AWOL
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Bush gets about 15% of his votes from these people. Kerry gets about 65% of his votes from the Dem counterparts.

Cite please.

And let's not go back to the 15 letters a day in your local paper calling Republicans baby-killers.

SlaveNoMore 09-23-2004 07:01 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

bilmore
If you play Mona Bone Jakon backwards, it gives you instructions for making belt bombs.
Dear Yusef:

"If you want to leave, take good care
Hope you make a lot of nice friends out there
But just remember there's a lot, I'd beware"

love,

INS

Gattigap 09-23-2004 07:02 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Bite your tongue, you musically-challenged barbarian.

(ETA) And there's my flight.
If it makes you feel any better, I'm getting IMmed with song lyrics.

"Morning has brooooo-kennnnnnn....."
"Kill all the infidel noooooooo-velistssssssss....."

Sidd Finch 09-23-2004 07:02 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Okay, to be fair, you stop filibustering judges and let them up for votes, and we'll stop with the pledge silliness. Deal?
Deal. Does that mean that all judges appointed by a Dem president will be put up for a vote by a Repub senate? Or is the "Clinton exception" still in effect?

Not Bob 09-23-2004 07:04 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
At least let's go back to the old-school honest-to-goodness fillibuster, which lasts for days and literally shuts down all other business.

It's this "fillibuster-lite" BS that is the problem.
I agree. If you're going to fillibuster, you should be ready to talk for a looooooooooong time. Which means that you shouldn't threaten to do it if it's a BS issue. Fillibuster a wingnut district judge nominee? She'd have to be a fricken Yankee fan for me to do that. Supreme Court, on the other hand...

But isn't that the responsibility of the presiding officer? (This is a serious question.) Can't they get it to the floor and have Cheney make 'em keep talking? Call their bluffs, dammit. Let's see if we got any Stroms or Harry Byrd left in the Senate.

Sidd Finch 09-23-2004 07:06 PM

Liberals want to ban your Bible.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The niceties of "Peace Train" aside, when you refer to him as Yusef Islam and look at the anti-West comments he's made over the years (and his verbal support of the fatwah for the death of Salman Rushdie), it makes perfect sense to me.

Wow. First, I agree with just about everything Pat Buchanan says on the Daily Show.* Now, I agree with something Slave says on one of his wackier days. Indeed, wonders will never cease.


*I'm a little behind. My TiVo runneth over. Sue me.

bilmore 09-23-2004 08:59 PM

AWOL
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Cite please.
Oh, be serious. (That's Obewan Kenobe's dad, I think.) Cite to the fact that this election is dominated by the ABB faction?

That's like:

Me: "The sun'll come up . . . tomorrow . . ."

You: "Cite, please."

(Cool. If you volunteer to leave two hours later, and no one else does, you can bargain them up to three free tickets.)


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:52 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
Hosted By: URLJet.com