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Sidd Finch 12-06-2004 01:29 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
also, within any blue state, the higher average IQ went to Bush voters. the "less than HS diploma" crowd was strongly with Sebastian and them
Keep telling yourself that.

Lemme guess -- in the South the Dems got all the beer-swilling frog-gigging bubbas, and the Repubs got the people with graduate degrees. Right?

Hank Chinaski 12-06-2004 01:40 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Keep telling yourself that.

Lemme guess -- in the South the Dems got all the beer-swilling frog-gigging bubbas, and the Repubs got the people with graduate degrees. Right?
In the South we got both. Nationally, the exit polls show we won for Bachelor's or HS and you won for grad degrees and no degrees. I don't equate a grad degree to higher IQs than bachelor's.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-06-2004 02:08 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
In the South we got both. Nationally, the exit polls show we won for Bachelor's or HS and you won for grad degrees and no degrees. I don't equate a grad degree to higher IQs than bachelor's.
You's impossible, Hank.

"we won for Bachelor's or HS"

Which was it? Or do you mean both? I'd say you meant the GOP won both, but later you write:

"you won for grad degrees and no degrees"

...which tends to indicate that you didn't mean "both Bachelor's and HS" in the earlier part of the sentence.

Clarify please. And use bullet points.

Hank Chinaski 12-06-2004 02:16 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
You's impossible, Hank.

"we won for Bachelor's or HS"

Which was it? Or do you mean both? I'd say you meant the GOP won both, but later you write:

"you won for grad degrees and no degrees"

...which tends to indicate that you didn't mean "both Bachelor's and HS" in the earlier part of the sentence.

Clarify please. And use bullet points.
I try and post conversationally, since I'm pretty sure some of the lefties here are of the "no degree" type.

sebastian_dangerfield 12-06-2004 02:26 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I try and post conversationally, since I'm pretty sure some of the lefties here are of the "no degree" type.
What do you try? You're a funny guy. A really funny guy.

That is a huge pet peeve. I make many grammatical/typo errors, but when I hear sopmebody say "Why don't you try and do it this way" or "I'll try an do that" its like fucking nails on a chalkboard. Nothing is worse.

OK... maybe "Lets go down the shore" (a phrase favored by Philadelphia area idiots) is worse.

Hank Chinaski 12-06-2004 02:29 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
What do you try? You're a funny guy. A really funny guy.

That is a huge pet peeve. I make many grammatical/typo errors, but when I hear sopmebody say "Why don't you try and do it this way" or "I'll try an do that" its like fucking nails on a chalkboard. Nothing is worse.

OK... maybe "Lets go down the shore" (a phrase favored by Philadelphia area idiots) is worse.
My MIL hates "You've got a friend in Pennslyvania."

sebastian_dangerfield 12-06-2004 02:30 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
"You've got a friend in Pennslyvania."
That ain't saying much.

Sidd Finch 12-06-2004 02:33 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
In the South we got both. Nationally, the exit polls show we won for Bachelor's or HS and you won for grad degrees and no degrees. I don't equate a grad degree to higher IQs than bachelor's.
Cite please.

Dave 12-06-2004 02:36 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Cite please.
Not necessary. Hank lives in a blue state.

Bad_Rich_Chic 12-06-2004 02:45 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I try and post conversationally, since I'm pretty sure some of the lefties here are of the "no degree" type.
If what you meant was "Bush won among HS grads, those with some college and those who graduated college; Kerry won among those without a HS degree and with post-gradutate degrees," that result was also true for Bush/Gore in 2000.

To do the detail (because why not):

HS dropouts: 50/49 Kerry
HS grads: 51/48 Bush
Some college: 53/46 Bush
College degree no grad degree: 51/47 Bush
Some grad school: 55/44 Kerry

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag.../epolls.0.html

Interestingly, I also note that the groups which had a noticeable (1% when rounded) vote for Nader were those with at least a college degree and income over $100K.

BR(Third Party Candidates: the choice of the intelligent rich - and, I'm sure if they ran the numbers, beautiful - people)C

baltassoc 12-06-2004 03:03 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pag.../epolls.0.html

Very interesting chart.

Can we all agree that the people who voted for Bush despite saying they "strongly disapprove" of his handling of his job, and the ones who voted for Kerry despite "strongly approving" Bush's job, need to be euthanized?

sgtclub 12-06-2004 04:12 PM

There's Something Happening Here
 
  • Iranian students have interrupted a speech by President Mohammad Khatami to mark Student Day at Tehran university.
    Students chanted "Shame on you" and "Where are your promised freedoms?" to express their frustration with the failure of Iran's reform movement.

    A visibly-shaken Khatami defended his record and criticised the powerful hardliners who have closed newspapers and jailed dissidents.

    He asked students to stop heckling and accused his critics of intolerance.

    Students were once some of President Khatami's strongest supporters.

Tyrone Slothrop 12-06-2004 04:23 PM

Meanwhile, the rebuilding of Iraq is going so well that the U.S government has decided that the road from Baghdad to the airport is too unsafe to drive, and that U.S. personnel henceforth will be transported there by helicopter. Just another success in our effort to turn Iraq into a beacon of stability and democracy for the Arab world.

Sidd Finch 12-06-2004 04:38 PM

There's Something Happening Here
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
  • Iranian students have interrupted a speech by President Mohammad Khatami to mark Student Day at Tehran university.
    Students chanted "Shame on you" and "Where are your promised freedoms?" to express their frustration with the failure of Iran's reform movement.

    A visibly-shaken Khatami defended his record and criticised the powerful hardliners who have closed newspapers and jailed dissidents.

    He asked students to stop heckling and accused his critics of intolerance.

    Students were once some of President Khatami's strongest supporters.

Is Khatami really the one to blame? Or is he just the only one they can criticize publicly without getting beaten?

sgtclub 12-06-2004 04:44 PM

There's Something Happening Here
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Is Khatami really the one to blame? Or is he just the only one they can criticize publicly without getting beaten?
I think a little of both. I understand he's walking a very narrow line these days.

ilikenewsocks 12-06-2004 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Meanwhile, the rebuilding of Iraq is going so well that the U.S government has decided that the road from Baghdad to the airport is too unsafe to drive, and that U.S. personnel henceforth will be transported there by helicopter. Just another success in our effort to turn Iraq into a beacon of stability and democracy for the Arab world.
1. What, the insurgents ran out of anti-aircraft missiles? That's pretty hard to believe. I'd rather drive, land mines and ambushes be damned.

2. Nation-building sucks. Has it ever worked, with the possible exception of Germany post-1945 where everything had been bombed completely to shit?

Hank Chinaski 12-06-2004 05:02 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Bad_Rich_Chic
If what you meant was "Bush won among HS grads, those with some college and those who graduated college; Kerry won among those without a HS degree and with post-gradutate degrees,"
honestly- was my original post that unclear?

baltassoc 12-06-2004 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ilikenewsocks
2. Nation-building sucks. Has it ever worked, with the possible exception of Germany post-1945 where everything had been bombed completely to shit?
Not that it changes your point, but I think all the Axis powers really fall under this, along with (South) Korea

Bad_Rich_Chic 12-06-2004 05:46 PM

Gratuitous
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
honestly- was my original post that unclear?
A little, though I managed to figure it out without spraining anything.

SlaveNoMore 12-06-2004 05:56 PM

New Blog
 
Showing that any two-bit hack can now have a blog, here is the latest.

From Nobel Laureate Gary Becker and Judge Richard Posner

Shape Shifter 12-06-2004 05:58 PM

New Blog
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Showing that any two-bit hack can now have a blog, here is the latest.

From Nobel Laureate Gary Becker and Judge Richard Posner

Wow. Who could have predicted this? From Posner:

"A rational decision to go to war should be based on a comparison of the costs and benefits . . . ."

Replaced_Texan 12-06-2004 06:35 PM

Policy analysis
 
From the Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine.

Projected Economic Costs Due to Health Consequences of Teenagers’ Loss of Confidentiality in Obtaining Reproductive Health Care Services in Texas
  • ABSTRACT

    Background We wanted to focus on the potential consequences of recently enacted legislation in Texas that limits adolescents’ ability to obtain confidential reproductive health care services.

    Objective To assess the potential economic costs that result when adolescents do not seek reproductive health care services because their confidentiality is compromised.

    Design We developed a cost model to estimate the projected costs of parental consent and law enforcement reporting requirements based on data from the literature, the Texas Department of Health, and publicly funded family planning clinics in Texas. Univariate and multivariate sensitivity analyses explored different scenarios.

    Setting The state of Texas.

    Participants Projected costs were estimated for all girls younger than 18 years using publicly funded reproductive health care services in Texas.

    Main Outcome Measures We determined the projected number of additional pregnancies, births, abortions, and untreated sexually transmitted infections and resulting pelvic inflammatory disease and calculated the associated economic costs of these projected outcomes.

    Results The potential costs of parental consent and law enforcement reporting requirements in Texas were estimated at $43.6 million (range, $11.8 million to $56.6 million) for girls younger than 18 years currently using publicly funded services.

    Conclusions As policymakers throughout the United States search for ways to curtail adolescent sexual activity and its adverse consequences, this analysis suggests that the limiting of medical confidentiality and the resulting restricted use of reproductive health care services potentially have serious health and economic consequences.

Follow the link to the full article. It's amazing how terrified we are in this country of kids having sex.

baltassoc 12-06-2004 06:42 PM

Policy analysis
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan

Follow the link to the full article. It's amazing how terrified we are in this country of kids having sex.
No, it's amazing that we think that if kids aren't able to learn about sex or obtain protection from pregnancy/STDs, they will abstain from sex.

bilmore 12-06-2004 07:02 PM

Policy analysis
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Follow the link to the full article. It's amazing how terrified we are in this country of kids having sex.
With an appropriate disclaimer that I would give the same sex ed that you would, you're sounding like that guy who wrote "What's The Matter With Kansas", in which he says that all the red-staters voted against their own interests, but in which he made the mistake of thinking that he knew what their interests were as well as they did. I think they might say that you are judging by the wrong criteria.

Gattigap 12-06-2004 07:16 PM

Policy analysis
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
With an appropriate disclaimer that I would give the same sex ed that you would, you're sounding like that guy who wrote "What's The Matter With Kansas", in which he says that all the red-staters voted against their own interests, but in which he made the mistake of thinking that he knew what their interests were as well as they did. I think they might say that you are judging by the wrong criteria.
While I follow your general point, I think the situations are a bit different.

Unlike the Kansasan (Kansasanian?) example, here I think it's less of a leap to assume that significantly more unintended pregnancies, and their attendant costs, were either a neutral or beneficial byproduct of the legislature's goals of, ah, preventing teen sex.

Tyrone Slothrop 12-06-2004 07:49 PM

Policy analysis
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
With an appropriate disclaimer that I would give the same sex ed that you would, you're sounding like that guy who wrote "What's The Matter With Kansas", in which he says that all the red-staters voted against their own interests, but in which he made the mistake of thinking that he knew what their interests were as well as they did. I think they might say that you are judging by the wrong criteria.
If your point is that many people care more about the message sent rather than its real-world effects, I agree. But there is also some truth to the idea that those people don't like to put it that way, and instead pretend that sending the right message will result in only the best of all possible worlds.

Replaced_Texan 12-06-2004 07:58 PM

Policy analysis
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
With an appropriate disclaimer that I would give the same sex ed that you would, you're sounding like that guy who wrote "What's The Matter With Kansas", in which he says that all the red-staters voted against their own interests, but in which he made the mistake of thinking that he knew what their interests were as well as they did. I think they might say that you are judging by the wrong criteria.
Which criteria am I judging incorrectly: The additional cost ($43.6 million)? The number of STIs (3.11 more cases of chlamydia, $980 per 100 girls, HIV wasn't included in the modelling because the incidence in 2002 was too low)? The number of pregnancies (increase of 11.45 pregnancies, 7.44 births and 2.29 abortions at $60,952 per 100 teens)?

The model that they used may be wrong, and I am not certain that they are interpreting relevant statutes correctly (at least I hope not, because otherwise I have a lot of phone calls to make to clients tomorrow who will not be happy that they're going to have to rat out their patients and patients' sexual partners to law enforcement), but I do not think that the intent of the legislation was to increase teen pregnancy and STI.

Tyrone Slothrop 12-06-2004 08:19 PM

Policy analysis
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Which criteria am I judging incorrectly: The additional cost ($43.6 million)? The number of STIs (3.11 more cases of chlamydia, $980 per 100 girls, HIV wasn't included in the modelling because the incidence in 2002 was too low)? The number of pregnancies (increase of 11.45 pregnancies, 7.44 births and 2.29 abortions at $60,952 per 100 teens)?

The model that they used may be wrong, and I am not certain that they are interpreting relevant statutes correctly (at least I hope not, because otherwise I have a lot of phone calls to make to clients tomorrow who will not be happy that they're going to have to rat out their patients and patients' sexual partners to law enforcement), but I do not think that the intent of the legislation was to increase teen pregnancy and STI.
Bilmore thinks you are more interested in attacking the people who voted for the more restrictive laws than you are in the laws' actual effects in the real world.

Sidd Finch 12-06-2004 08:32 PM

Policy analysis
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
With an appropriate disclaimer that I would give the same sex ed that you would, you're sounding like that guy who wrote "What's The Matter With Kansas", in which he says that all the red-staters voted against their own interests, but in which he made the mistake of thinking that he knew what their interests were as well as they did. I think they might say that you are judging by the wrong criteria.
I haven't read the book, as it seems somewhat cheesy. But I saw the author on the Daily Show (for a few minutes -- like most people, he gives a crappy interview on that show) and got the impression that he says that the "red staters" voted against their economic interests.* Not against their interests overall, or more accurately not against what they define as their interests.

Kind of what the Romans called "bread and circuses."**



*I'm not sure I agree with him on that, either. Response one would be "farm subsidies." Response 2 would be "you think the blue-staters will let the red states keep sucking on the federal teat forever if they could do anything about it?"

**Not really, but I like saying "bread and circuses." It's the ancient equivalent of tits and beer.

SlaveNoMore 12-06-2004 08:56 PM

Policy analysis
 
Quote:

Sidd Finch
**Not really, but I like saying "bread and circuses." It's the ancient equivalent of tits and beer.
Is that what the enlightened Bay Area folks are calling that new Hooters joint down by the Wharf?

Tyrone Slothrop 12-06-2004 09:55 PM

Policy analysis
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Is that what the enlightened Bay Area folks are calling that new Hooters joint down by the Wharf?
Like the rest of Fisherman's Wharf, no self-respecting Bay Area resident would be caught dead down there.

sgtclub 12-07-2004 11:37 AM

Tyranny of the Minority?
 
  • In an appearance before Congress in February, when the controversy over Janet Jackson’s Super Bowl moment was at its height, Federal Communications Commission chairman Michael Powell laid some startling statistics on U.S. senators.

    The number of indecency complaints had soared dramatically to more than 240,000 in the previous year, Powell said. The figure was up from roughly 14,000 in 2002, and from fewer than 350 in each of the two previous years. There was, Powell said, “a dramatic rise in public concern and outrage about what is being broadcast into their homes.”


    What Powell did not reveal—apparently because he was unaware—was the source of the complaints. According to a new FCC estimate obtained by Mediaweek, nearly all indecency complaints in 2003—99.8 percent—were filed by the Parents Television Council, an activist group.

    This year, the trend has continued, and perhaps intensified.

http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/h..._id=1000731656

sgtclub 12-07-2004 11:42 AM

Wonderful
 
  • A top-secret classified cable from the CIA station chief in Baghdad earlier this month warned of the dangers of stateside officials leaking classified information to the media in an effort to hamper the Bush administration's foreign policy, according to excerpts of the cable obtained exclusively by The New York Times.

    The confidential document was initially sent through a secure channel to CIA headquarters, then disseminated widely among officials at the departments of defense and state and eventually made its way to numerous Congressional leaders who leaked it to the The New York Times, which put it on the front page.

    "Information is a powerful weapon of war," wrote the unnamed undercover CIA agent, "And war is, by definition, messy. Frank evaluations of current conditions from operatives in the field are crucial to commanders who must shape strategy and tactics. Yet no matter how things are going in theater, the enemy must be made to believe that he is losing and the local citizens must believe that freedom will triumph over oppression. That's why it's essential that secrecy be maintained with respect to confidential communications like this."

    "The alternative," he wrote, "is that we become our own worst enemies and scuttle our efforts to liberate the Iraqi people from decades of tyranny. And then American journalists can smugly celebrate the freedom of the press that Iraqi journalists will never know."

sgtclub 12-07-2004 11:48 AM

This Should be Getting Lots More Attention
 
  • Karzai Sworn In as Afghan President

    By John Lancaster
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Tuesday, December 7, 2004; 6:30 AM

    KABUL, Afghanistan, Dec. 7 -- Three years after the fall of the Taliban, Afghanistan's first popularly elected president, Hamid Karzai, was sworn in Tuesday in a dignified, heavily guarded ceremony attended by hundreds of Afghan and foreign guests, including Vice President Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld.

    In a brief inaugural address, Karzai expressed his thanks to the Afghan people, who defied Taliban threats to participate in largely peaceful national elections in October, and to the United States, which led the international coalition that ousted the Islamic fundamentalist regime in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Bad_Rich_Chic 12-07-2004 01:37 PM

Wonderful
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
A top-secret classified cable from the CIA station chief ... warned of the dangers of stateside officials leaking classified information to the media ... leaked to the The New York Times, which put it on the front page.
Tres amusant.

Tyrone Slothrop 12-07-2004 01:46 PM

This Should be Getting Lots More Attention
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
  • Karzai Sworn In as Afghan President

    By John Lancaster
    Washington Post Foreign Service
    Tuesday, December 7, 2004; 6:30 AM

    KABUL, Afghanistan, Dec. 7 -- Three years after the fall of the Taliban, Afghanistan's first popularly elected president, Hamid Karzai, was sworn in Tuesday in a dignified, heavily guarded ceremony attended by hundreds of Afghan and foreign guests, including Vice President Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld.

    In a brief inaugural address, Karzai expressed his thanks to the Afghan people, who defied Taliban threats to participate in largely peaceful national elections in October, and to the United States, which led the international coalition that ousted the Islamic fundamentalist regime in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Should we also be paying attention to the fact that his government doesn't control large portions of the country, or is that the sort of thing that we should be quiet about lest our enemies find out about it too?

sgtclub 12-07-2004 02:02 PM

This Should be Getting Lots More Attention
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Should we also be paying attention to the fact that his government doesn't control large portions of the country, or is that the sort of thing that we should be quiet about lest our enemies find out about it too?
Always half full with you.

Tyrone Slothrop 12-07-2004 02:04 PM

This Should be Getting Lots More Attention
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Always half full with you.
Re Afghanistan, the truer test of a democracy is whether power is surrendered peacefully. That's why what has been happening in Ukraine is far more meaningful and momentous than what has been happening in Afghanistan.

sgtclub 12-07-2004 02:11 PM

This Should be Getting Lots More Attention
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Re Afghanistan, the truer test of a democracy is whether power is surrendered peacefully. That's why what has been happening in Ukraine is far more meaningful and momentous than what has been happening in Afghanistan.
I agree with you, but you have to remember that Ukraine has been working towards democracy for a decade longer than Afghanistan.

Tyrone Slothrop 12-07-2004 02:38 PM

This Should be Getting Lots More Attention
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I agree with you, but you have to remember that Ukraine has been working towards democracy for a decade longer than Afghanistan.
Fine, but you were the one posting about Afghanistan, not Ukraine. And you're not saying much at all about Iraq lately, which is no surprise. Donald Rumsfeld just promised that our troops would be home within four years. When Kerry said something similar the conservative press attacked him for wanting to cut and run, but I don't suppose there's any point in waiting for criticism of Rumsfeld on the same score.

Obviously, we've all taken to heart the idea that in order to win the war in Iraq, it's dreadfully important that we pretend to be winning it, lest the insurgents learn from our media that they actually are winning, and proceed to win even more as a result. Consistent with this strategy,
  • it's worth noting how far we've gone toward lowering the goalposts for "success" in Iraq. If you'd said before the war that over a year (and 1,000 U.S. fatalities) after the fall of Baghdad, U.S. forces would still be taking large numbers of casualties in an effort to create a government dominated by Shiite fundamentalists that has little capacity to exercise control over broad swathes of Iraqi territory you would have been labled a major-league pessimist about the venture. Now that's the hope of the optimists.

Yglesias in TAPPED.

Democracy in Iraq is right around the corner, right?


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