things proven today
 

I really haven't figured out your point with these arguments. It think it's something like "Section 8 is bad," or perhaps it is "Democrats are ruining the inner cities." As you seem to be offering only your personal experiences, I will offer mine.

Suburbs in Houston are cheap and plentiful. You can get a big house with a big yard on a quiet street for not too much money. Sure, you have to deal with the commute. But it's not so bad if you working in one of the sprawling business campuses that ring the city. Why are they there? Land. Cheap, cheap land. And tax breaks.

I hate suburbs, work downtown, and I hate commuting. When I was looking to buy a place in Houston, it was going to be in the inner loop. Some of the most expensive properties were in an area that is probably one of the most racially, ethnically, and culturally diverse in the city. I have not done research on the issue (help, RT!), but I suspect there is a good deal of Section 8 housing in this area.

For the same prices as the places we were looking at in this neighborhood, we could have gotten a 5,000 sf house on the golf course in the burbs. The only neighborhoods more expensive than the r/e/c diverse one are the ones with the mansions housing our local industry leaders. I doubt there is any Section 8 housing in River Oaks. It is a Republican stronghold.

"Republican" and "Democrat" are terms that don't mean much in local elections. Ability and backbone mean so much more. Local governments do not deal so much in macroeconomic abstractions. The deal with concrete issues such as, well, concrete to fill the potholes. And garbage collection.

What was your point again?

things proven today
 

Bottom line: If we are going to have section 8 or public housing, it should not be concentrated; rather, the burden should be imposed everywhere within reason. Before the argument was shifted to the causes of suburbanization (by me, heh heh heh), this was essentially it. I originally posted an article from the Chicago Suntimes that detailed how there are numerous suburbs in Chicago that have no section 8, whereas the absolute worst neighborhoods in the city (Lawndale, Englewood) are overrun with concentrated vouchers and public housing.

The premise is:

1.) If Johnson declares a war on Poverty, then we should all be equally enlisted;
2.) If anyone declares any kind of war on anything, we should not be fighting to lose (sound familiar?).

I promise the rest of ya, this is my last post on the thread. Ya weren't supposed to like hearing it. Who else here could attack Dems, Republicans and Sebby in one political string?

He(the real Right)llo

things proven today
 

I am all for Section 8 housing in River Oaks. I'm with you, I guess.

things proven today
 

I'd wholeheartedly agree with this. It costs next to nothing to buy land in a prarie here and develop it. While it would suck my soul to have to move to one of those places, I don't have three kids and need a place to put them. You can own a decent sized house, with a fair amount of land for under $200K in a hell of a lot of suburbs.

Houston is a little different than a lot of other large cities because the city tends to annex the suburbs to retain the tax base, so it's all Houston. The city is physically the size of Rhode Island, there is no zoning, and there are no natural constraints like rivers or mountains or other cities on growth. For some reason the school systems are separate though, and I think that has a bigger impact than subsidized housing.

There's Section 8 housing right next to River Oaks, and I'd argue that the property that Allen Parkway Village (the oldest subsidized housing project in the city, and subject to massive contraversy because it was recently torn down (and uglyly rebuilt) is on is probably some of the most valuable in the city. The fourth ward (where Allen Parkway Village is located) has been able to accomodate a lot of the recent gentrification without losing it's longtime (poor, black) residents because the city made an effort to require subsidized housing when Perry Homes came in and started tearing down the old shotgun houses.

I think we keep on growing outward because it's inexpensive and the highway department likes to build freeways. I can't imagine living outside the loop though.

Take the Ginheads Bowling
 

And aren't we proud of all of them?

Kerry Haters for Kerry
 

Finally, an organization that we can all agree on (or, at least we theoretically could.)

Kerry-Haters for Kerry

My favorite page? The Panic Room.

things proven today
 

I may well be wrong about this, but I thought that the Allen Parkway Village was publicly owned. Section 8 provides vouchers for low-income folks to rent from private owners. Either way, it is obvious that Chicago could learn from Houston's example. That's some prime real estate.

Also, developers and highway contractors tend to play a pretty big role in local politics. I don't think they really care if the politicians are Republican or Democrat as long as they get their projects approved. Judging from Houston's growth patterns, they often are. Fortunately, with Tom DeLay representing the suburbs, more people seem to be wanting to move to the inner loop.

Kerry Haters for Kerry
 

The note on the banner is pretty funny:

http://www.kerryhatersforkerry.com/kh4k_banner.jpg

Speaking of MENSA
 

From Drudge:

• On Oprah's Wednesday 'voting party' show featuring important celebrities like P. Diddy (Vote or Die!), Drew Barrymore and Christina Aguilera, svelte suffragette Cameron Diaz took to shock tactics to get the female vote out.
  
  After a discussion on lynching and the vote with Oprah, Diaz spoke of the dire consequences for women if they sit out this election:
  
  Ms. DIAZ: We have a voice now, and we're not using it, and women have so much to lose. I mean, we could lose the right to our bodies. We could lo--if you think that rape should be legal, then don't vote. But if you think that you have a right to your body, and you have a right to say what happens to you and fight off that danger of losing that, then you should vote, and those are the...
  
  WINFREY: It's your voice.
  
  Ms. DIAZ: It's your voice. It's your voice, that's your right.

No additional comment is necessary.

Speaking of MENSA
 

No "additional" comment is necessary? Think of the poor baby electrons, going to bed tonight without mothers and fathers, simply because you and Drudge had to share this! Oh the humanity!

He said "more likeable" not "likeable."

Nixon v. Kennedy = Kennedy
Nixon v. Humphrey or McGovern=Nixon

Speaking of MENSA
 

Cameron Diaz has the right to age 20 years in the past 5. And she has exercised that right.

things proven today
 

I find this type of qualifier unnecessary in your posts at this point. No offense.

Speaking of MENSA
 

What? Did Oprah give you a new Pontiac?