Enough with the holier-than-thou stuff.
 

What you call a "translation anomaly" is an endorsement of one denomination over another.

Enough with the holier-than-thou stuff.
 

Is xenophobia the word for when you think you are better than another part of your own country?

Tomayto, Tomahto
 

Droll.

Enough with the holier-than-thou stuff.
 

I have relatives in Kentucky, which is where the Supreme Court case about hanging the Ten Commandments in the courtroom came from. Jesus.

Enough with the holier-than-thou stuff.
 

One more time. The Ten Commandments have NOTHING to do with Jesus.

Sheesh.

Note to all of you
 

Very enjoyable wine to accompany some nice cheese and crackers and multiple talking head shows about the nomination.

I may need to crack another bottle of this tomorrow.

Ty, how was the italian?

Lincoln versus Bush
 

the conscience of Obama's (and your) party is this racist fuck:

http://www.strangepolitics.com/image...ent/105276.jpg

Hey Barak, you just lost my vote in perpetuity.

Shocker
 

Funny, I didn't know you were Jewish.

Shocker
 

Why are you dragging Koresh into the debate?

Enough with the holier-than-thou stuff.
 

Back to your original question: What would she be on trial for? Moonshining I'm willing to trust the good people of Kentucky.

Note to all of you
 

I'm sorry, what were you saying? I didn't catch it. I was staring at your tits.

Note to all of you
 

Perhaps it's because he's uh, dead?

Lincoln versus Bush
 

Well, that's an impressive response to the substance of his statement. He says something about Lincoln, I point out how there is some support for his statement given Lincoln's words, and your response?

"Um.... Robert Byrd!! That's it!!!"

Dick.

Shocker
 

Maybe he is a "self-proclaimed jew". Like Hillary.

Lincoln versus Bush
 

I read the guys statement and still find him to be one of the most tolerable liberal Democrats in recent history. I have absolutely no problem with questioning Amerikan History as rewritten by [insert your target here... liberal book rewriters, the Republican party, whoever].

I was at the Lincoln memorial on fathers day [OT - the most depressing fucking day possible to go by the Vietnam wall], and reread his second inauguration speech again. The speech is amazing, but it gives a lot of insight into AL that would make many people today puke if they didn't know its source.

The civil war as our punishment for slavery? We'll take our punishment, and the South will take theirs, until God tells us all who is right? Those people were old skool religious back then, and that might be seen as a fault today (not be GWB to be sure). But they believed all sorts of weird shit, and I simply won't fault Barack Obama for pointing it out instead of asking us to keep our ancestors on some fucking pedestal.

If any of you ever see me on a pedestal, please take every chance you can to knock me off.

Sorry Penske, I'm with ya 99.5% of the time, and I'm sure Obama has lots of things I don't like, but overall I'm still quite impressed by him so far.

never alone
 

Wonk, you know I love you, platonically, nttawwt, and
I ain't here to convert atheists into believers
I'm just trying to say the way (the Union destroyed) school need teachers
The way Kathie Lee needed Regis that's the way yall need Jesus

Just as your fellow Chicagolander Kanye said

Lincoln versus Bush
 

Truth hurts.

Lincoln versus Bush
 

Well said. Penske, take a note -- it's possible to have a discussion that is not "Repubs good/bad, Dems bad/good."

After reading Obama's statement I went and read the Emanicpation Proclamation, probably for the first time since grade school. I would disagree with him on degree, but it's at least as much a military document than anything else.

Lincoln versus Bush
 

Fuck you, you piece of shit. On a daily basis you call me a racist because I'm a Democrat. Go fuck yourself.

Have you ever expressed a thought that was not "Democrats are evil people?" Do you and your socks wallow in shit all day long?

Is it your considered conclusion that Obama is either a racist, or just a dumb nigger, because he has joined forces with Byrd?

Go fuck yourself.

Penske does not think Sidd Finch is a racist
 

UNTIL FURTHER EXPRESS NOTICE TO THE CONTRARY,PLEASE LET IT BE KNOWN THAT I DO NOT, AND NEVER HAVE CONSIDERED SIDD FINCH A RACIST, ON EITHER THE INTERNET OR IN REAL LIFE (ALTHOUGH I HAVE NEVER MET HIM BUT I DO KNOW WHO HE IS).

I REGRET ANY INFERENCE THAT ANYONE HAS DRAWN THAT I MAY HAVE IMPLIED ACCUSED OR OTHERWISE SUGGESTED THAT SIDD IS AND/OR WAS A RACIST.

THANKS,

PENSKE

Penske does not think Sidd Finch is a racist
 

I must be a racist -- I'm a Democrat.

And I'm never, ever, ever allowed to say anything negative about Lincoln or any other Republican as a result, because Robert Byrd is my moral conscience -- right? Isn't that the Penske worldview?

Lincoln versus Bush
 

I think before Obama and other Dems (party leaders not you) start engaging in the type of historical revisionism that is designed to tear down every righteous foundation of our society, that they should look to their own house and the evil within it.

Like Kleagle Byrd or Killer Kennedy or communist plant Madame Hillary.

Penske does not think Sidd Finch is a racist
 

Sidd, I challenge you and the other few righteous Dems here and elsewhere in the minority of your party to as actively tear down the racists and liars in your own party and its leadership as you seek to tear down W and his Supreme Court nominees.

Of course, take this with a grain of salt because of course, as a card-carrying republican I am a racist by association with Lott and Jesse Helms.

Lincoln versus Bush
 

I don't think that questioning Lincoln's legacy is tearing down the foundations of America. I guess I just believe that the foundations of America are strong enough, and that Lincoln's true legacy is solid enough, to withstand scrutiny. Perhaps you feel otherwise.

I have no doubt, of course, that you are fully aware of the context of Obama's statement, and further that you can say with confidence that he in fact has done nothing to deal with "the evil within his house", as you put it.

Tell me -- what do you think Obama, or anyone else, should do about Byrd? An exorcism ceremony?

And if the challenge is to me personally -- what do you propose I do? I've said Byrd is a racist piece of shit. I haven't said anything of the sort about Bush (I don't think that of Bush), or most likely any other Repub -- except possibly Jesse Helms, who I do think is a racist piece of shit but who I really hate because of his support for terrorism* in southern Africa.


*What else do you call it when people shoot teachers and chop off children's arms?

Lincoln versus Bush
 

I think he should speak out against him at any relevant opportunity and publicly not he refuses to associate with him. That would satisfy me. He should also refuse to associate with cowardly killers like Kennedy.

Take up arms against his tyranny(?)

You do know Helms is out of office, right?

Here I go bad mouthing the United States....
 

As much as I respect Thomas Jefferson and George Washington, the fact that they held slaves is a blemish on their records. And to say that it was just the times diminishes the records of my two favorite founding fathers: Alexander Hamilton and Benjamin Franklin. Alexander Hamilton grew up in a Slave Holding society (in the Caribbean - where the entire economy was dependant on slaves) however, no matter how wealthy he got, he never had a slave and he was involved in abolition movements most of his adult life. Benjamin Franklin and John Adams also didn't hold slaves and were involved in abolition societies. Both were wealthy men.

So to give TJ and GW a pass does not give ample credit to these other founding fathers.

When Lincoln ran for the Republican nomination against Seward and others, he was the conservative nominee. In other words there were more "radical" candidates that were for the abolition of slavery - completely. Lincoln's argument that he would not alienate the rest of the country because of his own conservative stance, where his opponents "radical" views might tear the country apart, turned out to be wrong.

There were Republican radicals that believed that not only should all slaves be free, but also they should be treated equally under the law. These type of Republicans ended up controlling congress under Johnson's administration.

I think you need to give credit where credit is due.

Lincoln versus Bush
 

Yes, but Lincoln's been out a wee bit longer and apparently I'm not allowed to say anything about him, either, unless I preface it with the Ritual Trashing of Byrd.

Plame/Rove?
 

I have clue as to the veracity, but rumors are floating that the Time notes reveal Rove as the leak. Not sure if this has been discussed, but it raises the possibility that Rove has committed perjury, treason and, more clearly violated the following:

TITLE 50--WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE

CHAPTER 15--NATIONAL SECURITY

SUBCHAPTER IV--PROTECTION OF CERTAIN NATIONAL SECURITY INFORMATION

Sec. 421. Protection of identities of certain United States undercover intelligence officers, agents, informants, and sources

(a) Disclosure of information by persons having or having had access to classified information that identifies covert agent Whoever, having or having had authorized access to classified information that identifies a covert agent, intentionally discloses any information identifying such covert agent to any individual not authorized to receive classified information, knowing that the information disclosed so identifies such covert agent and that the United States is taking affirmative measures to conceal such covert agent's intelligence relationship to the United States, shall be fined not more than $50,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

Now I know one of the Hillary socks may tell us that the Clintons killed hundreds, if not thousands of their associates for political gain, but exposing an uncover op is nevertheless sickening. We'll have to ask King Karl why he hates America and/or Baby Jebus.

Rove the leak?

Here I go bad mouthing the United States....
 

Hamilton and Franklin weren't from Virginia, were they? As much as LA is different from NYC today (or Silicon Valley, or Simi Valley or Irvine or...), Virginia was a very different (and insular*) society than was New York City or Boston or wherever Hamilton and Franklin were from.

Which is to say, everybody and their brother, who could own slaves in Virginia, did. I agree that I don't give them a pass, but Jefferson is one of the greatest human beings to live in the last 500 years. Contra George W.. He was a simple religious farmer who volunteered to serve our country in whatever capacity he could, but wasn't really a revolutionary thinker.

Hello

* I found out reading Undaunted Courage that it was so insular that Jefferson chose his own neighbor in Albemarle county, Meriwether Lewis, to lead what became the Lewis and Clark expedition. Then again, it was partly because he felt he could not trust almost any military officers since Hamilton (or something like that) had loaded up the officers corps with anti-Jeffersonites (or something like that) just before Jefferson took office.

Hello again

Shocker
 

Fucking give up the Hilary fixation. You're beginning to sound like Slave pining away for Paigow.

never alone
 

I respect the dead prophets as men of wisdom and compassion. But I prefer my communing be with God emself, without the intercession of any false gods and their murderous idolators.

Shocker
 

Beginning?

Here I go bad mouthing the United States....
 

You should read my posts more carefully. As I said Hamilton was from the Caribbean Island, Nevis. In Nevis and the surrounding British West Indies, slavery was more entrenched, had existed longer and was more important to the economy than Virginia. Sugar Cane was completely dependent on Slavery. Even though he was raised around slaves, and in a society where the ethics of slavery was a given, he was an abolitionist.

That is simply not true. Many wealthy Virginians and other wealthy southernors chose to not have slaves. And both Washington and Jefferson knew there were problems with slavery as Washington freed his upon his death.

I agree with this except he was not a simple farmer. He was a very sophisticated and worldly land owning Aristrocat. A true believer in the enlightenment. He was also not very religious. John Adams considered him an Atheist. Jefferson denied the divinity of Jesus and produced the Jefferson bible that had all the "superstitious stuff" deleted. In other words all the miracles etc. He was a deist who believed in the great watchmaker theory - God created the universe but there is no evidence that he is involved with its current state of affairs. However, unlike Adams and Hamilton stated, he was no atheist. In fact he thought Atheists should be be able to testify in court because their oath could not be trusted.



The military was known to have strong Federalist sympathies.

Here I go bad mouthing the United States....
 

I'm sure Sally Hemmings's descendants (and Jefferson's, come to think of it) would all feel much better if they were to come to know this simple truth and accept it.

Here I go bad mouthing the United States....
 

If I read everything here carefully I'd never have time to sleep. But I digress. If Sugar Cane was completely dependent on Slavery, I'd imagine that Hamilton didn't have Sugar Cane crops. Whereas, Mt. Vernon and Monticello definitely has an agricultural bent to it,

But slaves cost money. If you didn't have reasons to have slaves, you wouldn't have slaves.



Were these others farmers?


I take what I said back in part. Washington was fairly simple in my view, especially compared to the others who you are comparing him to. But I agree with you about the religious part, and thought about editing my post 5 minutes after I wrote it when I realized that characterization was not accurate.

Here I go bad mouthing the United States....
 

After the Lincoln monument and the Vietnam Wall, we went to the Jefferson monument. I've usually been there between 11:00 PM and 1:00 AM, so I was surprised to find that there is a nice bookstore and museum that you can reach if you take a hidden elevator down a few flights.

At the bookstore, I asked the black guy behind the counter what other people were buying that could be considered "readable". So he suggested American Sphinx. I bought it, and breathed a sigh of relief that he didn't steer me to the Sally Hemings wing.

Lincoln versus Bush
 

Okay, deal. Do you want me to email my Kleagle Byrd photo collection?

Shocker
 

I will stop pointing out Hillary's crimes, lies and other odious behaviour as soon as she gets the fuck off the dole or the government exempts me from the tax code. I didn't claim she was a jew for political advantage, she did. In my youth, as a child, I studied at the local synagogue and learned the hebrew tongue, and yet I would never make the claim that I was jewish, for political, economic, sexual or other gain...uh....maybe for the sex.

She should answer for her lies.

Further, when is she going to explain why she lies about being named after the first man to climb Everest? Why would she lie about that? What was the advantage? Was she trying to lock up the mountain climber vote?

Shocker
 

I have not yet begun to fight. She must be stopped, in AlBore's words, at any cost.

Do any of y'all take heed of Dick Morris' warnings?

Shocker
 

I take it all back.

A true nut! What a nut!

Completely nutty!