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Say_hello_for_me 10-11-2004 01:38 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
I've missed a few days here, so I may be out of the loop, but what's a MWD? Apologies if you're just dyslexic. I'm just wondering if I'm missing something since you did the same thing in two sentences.
Mah bad. WMD. Once I make a mistake, I try to make the mistake consistently. Even when I'm mistaken, I'm no flip-flopper.

Say_hello_for_me 10-11-2004 01:42 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
As far as who I believe will do the best job of preventing such attacks.... I don't believe anybody can prevent such attacks. I think that either candidate can put in place and adminster an intelligence and security infrastructure that will frustrate and prevent many opportunities. But the enemy is far more committed to this than us, and individually, they are far more willing to die.
And my guy Bush is far more willing to help them die. The description of the people at the wedding is a perfect example of the uncommitted leftist base. Its the millions who buy Fahrenheit 9/11 and believe Moore is right. They think if we just sit back here in the good old U.S. of A, nobody will hold our success against us. And, of course, there is always that oil supply/suburbs/driving thing that we have to ensure. I might reread The Prize again if I have time.

I'm glad to see you recognize the lack of committment thing among many in this country. Come over to our side and you'll see where the committed people are. It is Bush's fundamental selling point.

Say_hello_for_me 10-11-2004 01:44 PM

Slavery and Abortion
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
Make up your mind. A month ago, you were from the poorer old neighborhoods that were the primary locus of white flight, like the area around Taylor Street and the near West Side. Now you're claiming to be a middle-to-upper class Catolic (what, Winnetka or Gold Coast?)

You rewrite your personal history more than Gatsby.
I'll PM you with the answer (completely and utterly outable), but when you accept it, please acknowledge that my story is consistent.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2004 02:27 PM

Partial Birth Abortion
 
As an aside, partial birth birth abortion is the leftist feminist's version of the Iraq War. The pro-choicers moved the front line 1000 miles away. As long as the pro-choicers can keep the battle focused on partial birth abortion, the pro-lifers have that much harder a battle making any headway against regular abortions. And the pro-lifers fell right into the strategy. Its like the pro-lifers had never haggled in their lives.

Partial birth abortion also provides every politician with a great opportunity to disingenuously pretend he's pro-life without angering moderates.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2004 02:32 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
And my guy Bush is far more willing to help them die. The description of the people at the wedding is a perfect example of the uncommitted leftist base. Its the millions who buy Fahrenheit 9/11 and believe Moore is right. They think if we just sit back here in the good old U.S. of A, nobody will hold our success against us. And, of course, there is always that oil supply/suburbs/driving thing that we have to ensure. I might reread The Prize again if I have time.

I'm glad to see you recognize the lack of committment thing among many in this country. Come over to our side and you'll see where the committed people are. It is Bush's fundamental selling point.
Alas, not nearly enough of you have been committed.

Say_hello_for_me 10-11-2004 02:40 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Alas, not nearly enough of you have been committed.
I'm not the one who "sees" a right of privacy in the Constitution.

Shape Shifter 10-11-2004 02:43 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
I'm not the one who "sees" a right of privacy in the Constitution.
I'm glad you edited your post. But if you choose to send your thought police after me next, I'd prefer that my method of execution be 800 million babies with hacksaws.

Not Bob 10-11-2004 02:48 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
I'm not the one who "sees" a right of privacy in the Constitution.
To be fair, Sebby "sees" the right in the Constitutional penumbra and emanations. (Ha! I kill me!)

Apropos of Roe, the more I hear about Bush's "Dred Scott" remark, the more impressed I am with whoever came up with that idea. Fricking genius. Pantywaist liberals like me laugh and sneer at the surface stupidity of his remarks, while The Base picks up on the code and is reassured that Roe v. Wade is toast once O'Connor retires. And he is able to do it without most people having any idear what he is doing.

Sebby, do you really think that Bush doesn't mean what he says? You social-issues libertarians better hope that you are right ...

Say_hello_for_me 10-11-2004 02:55 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I'm glad you edited your post. But if you choose to send your thought police after me next, I'd prefer that my method of execution be 800 million babies with hacksaws.
Joey called. His mom is taking him shopping and wants to know if you want to go too. If you do, be sure to be home in time for your orthodontist appointment.

Say_hello_for_me 10-11-2004 03:04 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
Pantywaist liberals like me laugh and sneer at the surface stupidity of his remarks
See TaxWonk? You make it sound like these people aren't more than half of Kerry's support. I'm telling you, this sums up what I heard at the wedding.

Hank Chinaski 10-11-2004 03:04 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I'm glad you edited your post. But if you choose to send your thought police after me next, I'd prefer that my method of execution be 800 million babies with hacksaws.
This AM Stern had a guy on who believed lizards control the main families and interbreed etc. He gave his webpage, but I fogot it. It was not bridgeoflove.com

Someone is ripping of Ickes act! Maybe the lecture ticket prices will drop.

Hank Chinaski 10-11-2004 03:07 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
me laugh and sneer at the surface stupidity of his remarks,
"internets" ha ha this is the stuff of national news.

the Kerry mis-statements we point to here weekly? they are so not covered I don't even remember what they are.

Go Team Dem!!!!

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2004 03:19 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
I'm not the one who "sees" a right of privacy in the Constitution.
I find it implicit in the second amendment.

Literalists are funny animals. I find them really interesting because they're always harping about consistency and adherence to the letter of things, except of course when they don't like the way the letters read, in which case they embrace "conservative interpretation", more honestly known by those who like to interpret text as "ideological interpretation."

A great case in point is the govt's drug policy (I hate to hit this easy nail so often, but a finer example of how full of shit most 'conservatives' are can't be found). The false conservatives like to scream for states rights on every issue imaginable. But then, when the states use their rights - to a laudable end, since the Fed Drug policy is 'unconstitutional' under most literalist's standards - suddenly, the conservatives (save intellectually honest, and therefore rare, true conservatives like Buckley) are all about Federal pre-emption. Hmm. The states should have the right to regulate abortion, but not marijuana use? The Fed govt should keep its hand off the states when they get involved in seriou issues like abortion, but should get involved in matters like cancer patients and hippies trying to smoke weed?

Give me a fucking break. I see no honest conservatives anywhere. I see people who want limited govt unless and until that limitation allows other people to act in ways that offend those "conservatives" At least I'm fukcing honest. I'll tell you where I'm coming from. These fucking "conservatives" are always hiding their agenda and the reason is simple - they are the party of less liberty. They deep down want to control people. Their core belief is that we're better off if certain moral notions they like are enforced on everyone else. Call yourself what you are, will you? You're nothing more than the moralizing mirror image of the liberals who think we should all be hyper-regulated like children because we don't know what's good for us.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2004 03:26 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
To be fair, Sebby "sees" the right in the Constitutional penumbra and emanations. (Ha! I kill me!)

Apropos of Roe, the more I hear about Bush's "Dred Scott" remark, the more impressed I am with whoever came up with that idea. Fricking genius. Pantywaist liberals like me laugh and sneer at the surface stupidity of his remarks, while The Base picks up on the code and is reassured that Roe v. Wade is toast once O'Connor retires. And he is able to do it without most people having any idear what he is doing.

Sebby, do you really think that Bush doesn't mean what he says? You social-issues libertarians better hope that you are right ...
There is another group who I've read speak in codes to their followers... who was that again? They've been in the news a lot the last few years...

My hope and prayer is that Bush is, deep down inside, a snotty East Coast Presbyterian, and that he'll snap into his daddy's policies in his second term when he's got nothing left to lose. My fear is that we'll get some shit-for-brains Santorum clone like Frist as the next candidate and the Southern Strategy will give us another four years of dealing with control by the lowest common denominator.

bilmore 10-11-2004 03:27 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I see no honest conservatives anywhere. I see people who want limited govt unless and until that limitation allows other people to act in ways that offend those "conservatives" At least I'm fukcing honest. I'll tell you where I'm coming from. These fucking "conservatives" are always hiding their agenda and the reason is simple - they are the party of less liberty. They deep down want to control people. Their core belief is that we're better off if certain moral notions they like are enforced on everyone else. Call yourself what you are, will you? You're nothing more than the moralizing mirror image of the liberals who think we should all be hyper-regulated like children because we don't know what's good for us.
Keep in mind that the sides are sort of equally comprised of proportions of normal people, and issue-zealots. I'm conservative. I'd like more liberty. But, I don't want you murdering your landlord. Is that a moral position? Yeah. Want to argue that it's thus not the proper role of government to interfere in that murder?

Say_hello_for_me 10-11-2004 03:44 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Give me a fucking break. I see no honest conservatives anywhere. I see people who want limited govt unless and until that limitation allows other people to act in ways that offend those "conservatives" At least I'm fukcing honest. I'll tell you where I'm coming from. These fucking "conservatives" are always hiding their agenda and the reason is simple - they are the party of less liberty. They deep down want to control people. Their core belief is that we're better off if certain moral notions they like are enforced on everyone else. Call yourself what you are, will you? You're nothing more than the moralizing mirror image of the liberals who think we should all be hyper-regulated like children because we don't know what's good for us.
Was your neck of the sticks a farm with lots of hay? Its like one fucking straw man after another. I'm on record here saying state's rights, legalize-it-or-shoot-everybody-but-don't-fucking-reach-into-my-wallet-for-it, and spread the pain to Sebby's suburban crowd while we are at it.

Sebby says, "I'm a lover of liberty, a lifelong pro-Choice Catholic, and I'm sick of people like you saying drugs should be illegal but abortion should be state's rights". Who you talking about here Sebby? Because where I'm from, you are talking about the suburban crowd. Yeah, fuck all the minorities in the ghetto, but don't you dare throw a felony on my kid for buying the shit. Look around you man, your people are the problem. You can erect all the straw boogey-men you want, but at the end of the day its your compromises that were necessary to get to this perpetual cycle of social failure.

Call me what you will, but I don't see no pink elephants in the mirror when I'm brushing my teeth. You are an impossibly convoluted caricature of a libertarian.

sgtclub 10-11-2004 03:47 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Anyone care to speculate why the significance of Howard's landslide hasn't made louder news? Anyone care to speculate whether it would have been louder news if he lost?

Hank Chinaski 10-11-2004 03:50 PM

proof you are a liability
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,135033,00.html

Ms. Heinz-Kerry's value to the ticket can be seen by the choice of appearances. They have her in Texas. There could be no clearer statement that she scares the guys running the campaign.

bilmore 10-11-2004 03:51 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Anyone care to speculate why the significance of Howard's landslide hasn't made louder news? Anyone care to speculate whether it would have been louder news if he lost?
How about:

The American main stream media is, at heart, relentlessly conservative, but, at the same time, polite, and so they don't wish to crow about this rather impressive ratification of Bush's ideas by one of our more important allies?

(What do I win?)

sgtclub 10-11-2004 03:57 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
How about:

The American main stream media is, at heart, relentlessly conservative, but, at the same time, polite, and so they don't wish to crow about this rather impressive ratification of Bush's ideas by one of our more important allies?

(What do I win?)
Ding ding ding ding - You win, a year's subscription to . . . (drum roll) NYT!

Replaced_Texan 10-11-2004 03:57 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Anyone care to speculate why the significance of Howard's landslide hasn't made louder news?
Because no one in the US has ever cared about Aussie elections.

Quote:

Anyone care to speculate whether it would have been louder news if he lost?
Only to speculate upon the extent it changes the coalition of the willing.

Aussies are pretty much just Texans with funny accents and wanderlust, though, so I wasn't really expecting much of a change.

Hank Chinaski 10-11-2004 04:02 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Aussies are pretty much just Texans with funny accents and wanderlust, though, so I wasn't really expecting much of a change.
it pains me to disagree with you R, but the Spain switch was big news, why wouldn't Australia rejecting the same change be news?

Not Bob 10-11-2004 04:03 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
How about:

The American main stream media is, at heart, relentlessly conservative, but, at the same time, polite, and so they don't wish to crow about this rather impressive ratification of Bush's ideas by one of our more important allies?

(What do I win?)
How about the mainstream American media thinks that stories about election results in Australia won't help them sell advertising as much as printing another article about Britney and Kevin? Election results in Germany (which, depending upon who you believe, either meant that the Germans were happy or unhappy with the "anti-American" national government) got no attention here, and I doubt that the Spanish elections results would have, absent the terror bombings.

And is it all that much of a suprise that Howard's party won? I could swear that the Economist ran an article a few weeks ago about the fact that he was leading by a pretty good margin, and that his opponent was regared as an inexperienced lightweight.

Not Bob 10-11-2004 04:07 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
it pains me to disagree with you R, but the Spain switch was big news, why wouldn't Australia rejecting the same change be news?
Because there was a terror attack, and the switch was attributed by many as a reaction to that attack.

Would there have been more news made -- absent the attack -- had the Spanish government stayed in office? Maybe. But not much, I don't think. Perhaps the same amount of attention on either side (opinion journals mostly -- maybe the Nation versus the National Review). I just don't think that most newspapers think that their readers care about it. A story on page A-8.

Say_hello_for_me 10-11-2004 04:10 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob

And is it all that much of a suprise that Howard's party won? I could swear that the Economist ran an article a few weeks ago about the fact that he was leading by a pretty good margin, and that his opponent was regared as an inexperienced lightweight.
2 sorta.

I saw something on the news that Australia's unemployment rate is at 2.8%, which is supposedly extraordinarily low on a historical basis for them. The nation supposedly also feels like things are good and getting better.

bilmore 10-11-2004 04:10 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
How about the mainstream American media thinks that stories about election results in Australia won't help them sell advertising as much as printing another article about Britney and Kevin? Election results in Germany (which, depending upon who you believe, either meant that the Germans were happy or unhappy with the "anti-American" national government) got no attention here, and I doubt that the Spanish elections results would have, absent the terror bombings.
Yes, yours was as spot-on as mine.

But mine was knowing satire.

There are tons of pro-Kerry submissions in the news that surely don't meet this "National Enquirer" test of public utility you are offering. It's a valid theory until you examine how they treat both sides.

Quote:

And is it all that much of a suprise that Howard's party won? I could swear that the Economist ran an article a few weeks ago about the fact that he was leading by a pretty good margin, and that his opponent was regared as an inexperienced lightweight.
It was my impression that Howard was looking dead for several weeks prior.

Gattigap 10-11-2004 04:12 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
it pains me to disagree with you R, but the Spain switch was big news, why wouldn't Australia rejecting the same change be news?
Was there a train bombing in Sydney that I missed?

I'd imagine that the reason relates to a combination of (1) the absence of an attack overshadowing the election, (2) the (slightly) increased difference in time, and (3) the continuation of the status quo is never as big of a story as change, and (4) some newsrooms didn't see the upside in trumpeting this as a validation of Bush's policies, so they left that task to News Corp.

That said, bilmore's answer is more succinct and snappier, kinda like GWB's answer on abortion. So, let's go with that.

ETA: Correction. Bilmore's was "knowing satire." Of course, forgive me.

Replaced_Texan 10-11-2004 04:14 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
it pains me to disagree with you R, but the Spain switch was big news, why wouldn't Australia rejecting the same change be news?
Because, as far as I know, there wasn't an al Qaida linked attack on Austrailia a few days before the election. I guess you could go back to the bombing in Bali two years ago that killed a lot of Aussie tourists and part of the Australian national rugby team, but that was from a few news cycles ago. Orderly elections in Australia are not as big of a news item as the post-bombing elections in Spain were.

bilmore 10-11-2004 04:17 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
That said, bilmore's answer is more succint and snappier, kinda like GWB's answer on abortion. So, let's go with that.
When my son loses a football game, he always manages to find something about the refs to complain about. He doesn't lose very gracefully.

(Italy's voters chose a Kerry-clone. NYT front page. Germany's voters reject the Kerry-clone. Very small blurb. Chirac's bribery stories. Not so much. Ink problem in Afghanistan. Big news. )

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2004 04:20 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Was your neck of the sticks a farm with lots of hay? Its like one fucking straw man after another. I'm on record here saying state's rights, legalize-it-or-shoot-everybody-but-don't-fucking-reach-into-my-wallet-for-it, and spread the pain to Sebby's suburban crowd while we are at it.

Sebby says, "I'm a lover of liberty, a lifelong pro-Choice Catholic, and I'm sick of people like you saying drugs should be illegal but abortion should be state's rights". Who you talking about here Sebby? Because where I'm from, you are talking about the suburban crowd. Yeah, fuck all the minorities in the ghetto, but don't you dare throw a felony on my kid for buying the shit. Look around you man, your people are the problem. You can erect all the straw boogey-men you want, but at the end of the day its your compromises that were necessary to get to this perpetual cycle of social failure.

Call me what you will, but I don't see no pink elephants in the mirror when I'm brushing my teeth. You are an impossibly convoluted caricature of a libertarian.
Why must you continually try to frame every debate as some sort of suburb vs. urban poor conflict. You've responed to my challenge that most conservatives are phonies hiding an agenda by shooting the messenger. Here's a tip - your technique of reframing/warping the issue so that you can make every debate one about class and race, is transparent. A mongoloid could spot that you're trying to goad everyone into debates where you can take strong moral positions about inequality which make the opponent look like an ogre. You remind me of that line in Holidays in Cambodia where Biafra properly describes upper middle class white self-loathing:

"Play ethnicky jazz to parade your snazz on your five grand stereo, bragging that you know how the niggesr feel cold and the Sun's got so much soul..."

Stop trying to call me a classist/racist/anti-urbanist. My post had no hint of any of that. At least when I crash and burn, I admit it, instead of trying to morph the subject fifty times. Admit it, man - you're a conservative - you want people to adhere to certain morals, but you just can't stomach saying it because that forces you to give up all intellectual credibility in the argument.

And get rid of your hard on for for arguments about the ghetto. Its sounds contrived from an obviously whitebread Catholic kid from the better side of the tracks.

Say_hello_for_me 10-11-2004 04:24 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
When my son loses a football game, he always manages to find something about the refs to complain about. He doesn't lose very gracefully.

(Italy's voters chose a Kerry-clone. NYT front page. Germany's voters reject the Kerry-clone. Very small blurb. Chirac's bribery stories. Not so much. Ink problem in Afghanistan. Big news. )
In a temporary defense of the media, the LA Times does have a very nice article today about how happy the Afghans are with the elections. I saw a few yesterday too, including one surprising quote somewhere-or-other about the opposition candidate's complaints being laughed out of Kandahar of all places.

Hank Chinaski 10-11-2004 04:26 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
2 sorta.

I saw something on the news that Australia's unemployment rate is at 2.8%, which is supposedly extraordinarily low on a historical basis for them. The nation supposedly also feels like things are good and getting better.
Actually NYT mid last week was speculating that a Howard loss was likely due to unhappiness with being tied to Bush, but whatever,

Gattigap 10-11-2004 04:28 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
When my son loses a football game, he always manages to find something about the refs to complain about. He doesn't lose very gracefully.
Um, OK. Do any of your son's explanations revolve around bees?

Quote:

(Italy's voters chose a Kerry-clone. NYT front page. Germany's voters reject the Kerry-clone. Very small blurb. Chirac's bribery stories. Not so much. Ink problem in Afghanistan. Big news. )
I've not followed the German elections, so I'm not sure what you meant by their "Kerrry-clone." In accordance with GOP orthodoxy, wouldn't that be Schroeder?

In any event, I'm curious -- did any of these events affirming the Rightness of GWB's Iraq policy garner (in your view) sufficient attention on FNC, the outlet most directed to his reelection chances? If not, then I will smile at your knowing satire but accept it as less than a full explanation for the phenomenon.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2004 04:28 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me

Call me what you will, but I don't see no pink elephants in the mirror when I'm brushing my teeth. You are an impossibly convoluted caricature of a libertarian.
Uh, why exactly is it bad to be a pink elephant? Should I "pick a side" or "develop some consistency"? Will I get shot if I can't be pigeonholed? Is not fitting into one of the neat little voter categories defined by the press a sign of mental illness?

Show me a man who prides himself on consistency above all else and I'll show you the second most stupid man in any room, right below to the guy who's proud to announce what group label he fits under.

*I see plenty of pink elephants, but they've got nothing to do with politics.

SlaveNoMore 10-11-2004 04:33 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
You remind me of that line in Holidays in Cambodia where Biafra properly describes upper middle class white self-loathing
Funny. Calling it "Democrat" is much more succinct.

Hank Chinaski 10-11-2004 04:38 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
so I'm not sure what you meant by their "Kerrry-clone." In accordance with GOP orthodoxy, wouldn't that be Schroeder?
bilmore was even sloppier than you state here. Kerry is the clone, the "old europe" guys are the mold not the copy. we can't keep letting him get away with this sort of false allegation.

bilmore 10-11-2004 04:41 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
bilmore was even sloppier than you state here. Kerry is the clone, the "old europe" guys are the mold not the copy. we can't keep letting him get away with this sort of false allegation.
Mea culpa.

Not Bob 10-11-2004 04:43 PM

Not Onanistic
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Funny. Calling it "Democrat" is much more succinct.
Sez you. I never engage in "self-loathing." As a (Not Italian) Catholic, I follow the rule that every sperm is sacred/every sperm is great/when a sperm is wasted/God gets quite irate.

bilmore 10-11-2004 04:43 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
I've not followed the German elections, so I'm not sure what you meant by their "Kerrry-clone." In accordance with GOP orthodoxy, wouldn't that be Schroeder?
Yes.

Quote:

In any event, I'm curious -- did any of these events affirming the Rightness of GWB's Iraq policy garner (in your view) sufficient attention on FNC, the outlet most directed to his reelection chances?
Don't know. Don't get it.

bilmore 10-11-2004 04:44 PM

Not Onanistic
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
Sez you. I never engage in "self-loathing." As a Not Italian Catholic, I follow the rule that every sperm is sacred/every sperm is great/when a sperm is wasted/God gets quite irate.
I'm picturing you with lots of little stoppered bottles, and it's . . . disquieting.


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