For the Record
 

I just wish the democrats could admit that it was not about sex, but it was about lying under oath, which is wrong. And. criminal. we are a nation of laws, why do they disrespect that concept?

For the Record
 

OK. I'll believe he lied when I see the purported lies.

I don't think many people believed that, and they didn't carry the day.

You didn't click on the link I posted, did you?

Suppose you're representing a company in litigation. The CEO testifies that the company has certain records. Later it comes out that the COO told him the day before that testimony that the company had been looking for the records for years and had never found any. You don't think you have a little perjury problem? Please.

You never answered my question -- is there a principled reason why it's OK to make these misrepresentations, or are you just a cynic?

I personally am troubled by a White House that makes a public case for war that does not reflect the best information it has. Sorry to hear that you're not.

For the Record
 

You have to be kidding me? I have never met a Democrat who was willing to admit that what Clinton was wrong, without qualification. Its about sex, Starr was on a witchhunt, what is is.

Please!

Clinton lied under oath and the Dems said no consequences. Bush has never even lied, he just relied on intelligence, which may or may not have been flawed, as the WMDs may still turn up.

For the Record
 

I believe in the idea of a Republic not a true democracy. Foreign policy should not be run on democratic principles. Like they say you cant have 435 secretarys of state. I think our military and the department of state are full of educated and capable people. Our general and admirals are some of the most educated and talented people in the world. When it comes to foreign policy I think the bueracracy is much more in charge than the President. I think most of our Presidents defer to these people because they realize they know what they are doing.

Of course there are exception. Johnson in Vietnam with regard to amount of troops, Kennedy with the bay of pig and the need for aircover and Rumsfield when he told the army that we could do what we wanted with a much smaller army.

The President job is just to sell their decisions to the public. Sometimes they have to distort the truth for strategic reasons. But the public can't know what is really going on because if the public knows the enemy knows.

I think the proof of the pudding was when Clinton ran for President he critisized every foreigh policy operaion Bush was in . He critisized Hait, Somali, Chinas MFN status, NAFTA etc. And then he followed the exact same policy when he got in.

To get elected the candidate must critisize everything the incumbant does. NO matter what. That is just politics. Like Kennedy accusing Eisenhauer of allowing a missile gap when he knew there wasn't one. Eisenhauer couldn't fight back to do so would hurt National Security. In these situations the incumbants just have to suck it up.

In foreign policy if the President isnt' deceiving me or lying to me he is giving aid and comfort to our enemies.

For the Record
 

What Clinton did was wrong. Period.

It was about sex, Starr was out of control -- I saw this notwithstanding my deep personal admiration for the man, with which you are familiar -- and the GOP tried to use his mistake for political reasons.

It wasn't grounds for impeachment, but what he did was wrong. Period.

Clinton suffered consequences, and I find it odd that conservatives now seem to feel that there has to be a legal sanction because traditional social sanctions apparently count for nothing.

Tommy Franks told Bush that they had been looking for WMD for years without finding any. Bush told reporters two days later, categorically, that Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. Maybe it's not a lie only in the sense that Bush had some sort of religious-like conviction that Hussein was a bad man and that an invasion would turn up the evidence, but the fact remains that he misrepresented what he knew, and made statements about WMD for which he did not have a basis, and that he did this in order to try to convince this country to go to war. When Bush said that, he wasn't "relying" on intelligence -- he was bending and twisting what he was told, and using it to try to convince people to go along with what he already decided to do.

It's pathetic the way you guys want to pretend that Bush was somehow misled by the CIA. He's the leader, right? We all know that the CIA was his bitch, not the other way around.

So we all agree:
 

So the conclusion is:

Clinto committed perjury

FDR lied

Bush didn't lie because he really believed that there were WMDs but he did misrepresent the facts that were presented to him.

For the Record
 

There is a difference between selling and deceiving. In business, that's the difference between good marketing and fraud. We ought to be able to expect the same from our leaders, because their actions have legitimacy only because they derive their authority from our consent. We are a democracy, even if we have a republican form of government.

I fundamentally disagree that a President's job is to sell decisions which have already been made to the public. A President's job is to lead, and you can't lead for very long if you aren't straight with people. If your brand of leadership is based on misleading people, those chickens come home to roost.

So we all agree:
 

On Clinton, yes.

On FDR, I still want to see the alleged lies.

On Bush, it is too soon to say what he knew because we have a very incomplete record.

Hey Cindy, SFTU!
 

Meanwhile, a group of military families who support U.S. efforts in Afghanistan and Iraq announced they will caravan from Sacramento to Crawford starting Monday in what they are calling the "You Don't Speak for Me, Cindy" tour.

Move America Forward, a conservative, nonprofit Bay Area group, is organizing the caravan.

The goal of the caravan is "to present an alternative voice to that of Cindy Sheehan, who has become the heroine of the 'Blame America First' crowd," according to an announcement from the group. "The truth is that the men and women in the military and their families are the strongest supporters of the war on terrorism, and they do not agree with the message or antics of Cindy Sheehan. Their voices must now be heard."

The caravan will be headed by Deborah Johns, a Roseville resident and founder of Northern California Marine Moms. It will stop in Vacaville briefly before heading to San Francisco for a press conference and then heading to Texas.

"Cindy Sheehan doesn't speak for me, nor does she speak for any of the military families that I have been involved with," Johns said in a press release Tuesday. "I am deeply sorry for Ms. Sheehan's loss; however (her) actions are only causing pain to those of us who have loved ones serving in the war against terrorism. We understand the need to fight the terrorists overseas rather than face attack here at home."



http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/parodies/ss_dd.jpg

So we all agree:
 

2, 2 and 2, but the last is qualified as the WMDs may be in Syria.

So we all agree:
 

So why did Bush really believe that there were WMD in Iraq when the intelligence people were telling him something much less certain? If he didn't lie, doesn't it bother you that we have a President who got it so wrong on such an important question?

For the Record
 

I don't understand this. Why is sex relevant? Is there a special sex related category of perjury? If not, why qualify it? Its perjury and its wrong, regardless of the subject of the perjury, right?



so what you are saying is that perjury does not at least raise the issue of whether or not the Chief Executive officer of the country, the man ultimately in charge of administering the laws of the nation is fit to serve in that capacity? I don't believe he should have been removed from office (although maybe censured), but I think he should have been impeached to examine what he did. Publicly.

If what you saying holds for all, then any lawyer who knwolingly files a false affidavit or presents other false testimony to a judge should have no consequence (other than social sanction). Right?


so social sanction replaces punitive measures. Does that work across the board, maybe we have pedophiles wear a large a P on their chests instead of jail time?


Maybe he was relying on his predecessor, who said Saddam either had WMDs or was trying to get them and thus would be a danger unless removed. Clinton's word should be sufficient.

So we all agree:
 

Yes, once we invade Syria we will know the truth.

So we all agree:
 

Maybe he was relying on Clinton, when Bill said:


Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.
Other countries possess weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles. With Saddam, there is one big difference: He has used them. Not once, but repeatedly.

The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again.

In short, the inspectors are saying that even if they could stay in Iraq, their work would be a sham. Saddam's deception has defeated their effectiveness. Instead of the inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors.
Second, if Saddam can cripple the weapons inspection system and get away with it, he would conclude that the international community -- led by the United States -- has simply lost its will. He will surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction, and someday -- make no mistake -- he will use it again as he has in the past.

The credible threat to use force, and when necessary, the actual use of force, is the surest way to contain Saddam's weapons of mass destruction program, curtail his aggression.
The hard fact is that so long as Saddam remains in power, he threatens the well-being of his people, the peace of his region, the security of the world. The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government

Bringing change in Baghdad will take time and effort.

And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them.
Because we're acting today, it is less likely that we will face these dangers in the future.

Hey Cindy, SFTU!
 

Apparently this tour has rolled Cindy right out of Crawford as FoxNews is reporting she is picking up and going home. Interesting that Sheehan had vowed to remain until W met with her or until his month-long vacation was over. Guess he smoked her out.

http://www.futuro-house.net/MyPages/...artmanhome.jpg

For the Record
 

Don't your fingers ever get tired?

Hey Cindy, SFTU!
 

I hope your wife and children have massive strokes as God's punishment to you for slamming Cindy for fulfilling traditional filial duties.

For the Record
 

Is it time for me to kill the Hank sock and sock change?

I always thought my Dick Gethardt sock could have legs if i just put it out there a little more.

For the Record
 

As someone who has been choosen to be the mouthpiece for a true gentleman about his dealing with the fairer sex, i feel competant to make the following statements.

One who drops trou on an employee and asks for unsolicited oral sex, or someone who spills his seed on a lady's ball gown- well that someone is no gentleman.

Hey Cindy, SFTU!
 

What God? You leftists don't believe in God. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Regretably I did not realize why she left when I posted that post, or, out of good taste and respect for the privacy of her family, who are innocents here, I would not have posted it. Although to delete it now would make me the equivalent of Ty when he deleted the charred bodies post, so I can't go there. No offence.

Further, let me state, obviously either Bush or the Israelis are behind Sheehan's mom's stroke, and that is dirty politics I just can't get behind. Uncool.


http://www.sacredcowburgers.com/paro...can_gothic.jpg

For the Record
 

why not use Bluetriangle? Or the original juan?

Hey Cindy, SFTU!
 

Maybe God did it? He stepped in in Fla. in 2000 and again in Ohio last November.

Would you kiss it for me?
 

Excerpt from the Paul Jones depo (remember this is the man the Dems worship]


Paula Jones:

I was -- he come over by the wingback chair close to where I was at. Then it's like he wasn't even paying attention to what I was saying to him. Then he goes, "Oh, I love the way your hair flows down your back. And I was watching you," and stuff like that. Downstairs. And then he did it again. Then he started -- he pulled me over to him while he was leaning up against the wingback chair and he took his hands and was running them up my culottes. And they were long. They were down to my knees. They were long, dressy culottes. And he had his hand up, going up to my middle pelvic area, and he was kissing me on the neck, you know, and trying to kiss me on the lips and I wouldn't let him. And then I backed back. I said, "Stop it. You know. I'm not this kind of girl." I mean. And it still -- and then I ran right over to where the couch was. I thought what am I going to do? I was trying to collect my thoughts. I did not know what to do. After the second time -- after the first time, I had rebuffed him. And then when I got over there and I kind of sat right there by the end of the couch on the -- seemed like on the armchair part. And the next thing you know it, I turn around because he was a kind of back over here, and he come over there, pulled his pants down, sat down and asked me to perform oral sex.

Q. What did he say exactly?

Paula Jones:

He asked me would I kiss it. He goes -- you know, I can see the look on his face right now. He asked me, "Would you kiss it for me?" I mean it was disgusting.

For the Record
 

Everyone knows they're me because of the "Criminal's rights are more important than the right's of the aggrevied " crowd running the show here.

Hey Cindy, SFTU!
 

God is jewish, no? (I.E. the Israeli connection)

Hey Cindy, SFTU!
 

I worship you, but that doesn't make you Hankish.

Essay Topic for 8/18-19/05
 

Operation Enduring Freedom: Has Freedom Indeed Endured?

Discuss.

Bonus points for incorporation descriptions of certain laser navigation systems used in aircraft.

So we all agree:
 

Please. That shit is so tired. Clinton didn't see a threat to this country or Iraq's neighbors warranting an invasion. Bush did. We now know he was wrong. And yet it doesn't seem to bother you that Bush got something so crucial so wrong.

For the Record
 

Oddly enough, your wife was just asking me the same thing.

For the Record
 

If i hadn't turned nice I would turn this one on you. This is slow pitch- like school of Taxwonk.

So we all agree:
 

Ummm sped, he didn't think Afghanistan was a threat either.

So we all agree:
 

Read the words. He said in effect Saddam was so dangerous, including posing a WMD threat to us, that he needed to be removed. The fact that Clinton could give such a speech and then not act on it is just another testament to his deriliction of duty. Not unlike his dereliction of duty in failing to respond to WTC I or any of bin Laden's other attacks and then turning down opportunties to take custody of him.

The fact that Bush has acted to take on all the challenges Clinton failed to lead on, all of which were exacerbated by Clinton's failures, is a tribute to W's decisive leadership. Thankfully he has faith in what is right and will see us threw this period despite the attempts of the left to destroy him in the name of the insurgency.

So we all agree:
 

Clinton let bin Laden go to Afghanistan from Sudan. He created that mess and then killed a camel as a faux example of his diligence in combatting the situation he created.

Essay Topic for 8/18-19/05
 

Yes.

For the Record
 

Hank,
Is this is the insult to the other injuries imposed on you, or vice versa?

So we all agree:
 

you and I have to do our part also Penske-
let's pray!

• Oh holy Jesus
  please we beseech thee
  use your heavenly powers
  please give comfort to our small community here
  we need to move this place back to good
  and Lord we need your help
  
  please god, use your powers and give Ty
  Carpal tunnel syndrome.
  
  We thank you lord

So we all agree:
 

See, actually, he did. Again, you are confusing reality with those righty fantasies of yours. It is true that he did not consider Afghanistan enough of a threat to invade.

So we all agree:
 

So we all agree:
 

Yes. apparently in Clinton's equation, the threat of the loss of 3000 innocents and the first attack on America soil in 60 years wasn't enough to get him to pry his crouch off of Monica's face long enough to make the hard decisions (npi) to lead.

Thankfully Bush is an adult.

So we all agree:
 

After the 1st WTC attack clinton spent the last 7 years of his administration putting together a plan for how the next President could deal with terrorism. He made sure the plan was delivered to Bush's people along with the keys to the Executive office bldg. toilets. bush ignored that well-thought out plan.

See Ty you can take vacation. i can cover for you.