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-   -   All Hank, all the time. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=734)

taxwonk 07-27-2006 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Bob
Translation: Ty posted something about the mideast, and no one posted anything here for more than 24 hours after that post. "Therefore," says Ty, "my brilliant bit of insight was so powerful that the tubes and wires of the Internets were singed, causing the LawTalkers Politics Board to crash for a day. Until I came back to say something else."
How very un-NotBob like. You don't generally make with the snide and snarky. What's wrong, NB, Wanda forget to sweeten your tea?

Spanky: Breaking the board is simply an observation that the last post was some time ago and the poster is wondering if everybody went someplace cooler to play.

Not Bob 07-27-2006 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by taxwonk
How very un-NotBob like. You don't generally make with the snide and snarky. What's wrong, NB, Wanda forget to sweeten your tea?

Spanky: Breaking the board is simply an observation that the last post was some time ago and the poster is wondering if everybody went someplace cooler to play.
No, no -- I was channeling Ty being self-deprecating. Apologies for being Not Clear.

Besides, I tend to agree with him mostly (though on the mideast stuff, I am with spanky in throwing up my hands). I tend to be snarky to those I disagree with.

taxwonk 07-27-2006 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Not Bob
No, no -- I was channeling Ty being self-deprecating. Apologies for being Not Clear.

Besides, I tend to agree with him mostly (though on the mideast stuff, I am with spanky in throwing up my hands). I tend to be snarky to those I disagree with.
No apologies needed. Especially if you were trying to channel Ty. That's harder than trying to channel Hank sober or Penske sane.

Penske_Account 07-27-2006 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by taxwonk
No apologies needed. Especially if you were trying to channel Ty. That's harder than trying to channel Hank sober or Penske sane.
That's not nice. I thought we had rapprochement?

Hank Chinaski 07-27-2006 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Penske_Account
That's not nice. I thought we had rapprochement?
he has been on a diet, at least on the internet, since yesterday. he's obviously just hungry-mean. let it roll off you man. Remember when we had a tubby president instead of a fit one- back then a guy could get fat and not feel inferior:(

taxwonk 07-27-2006 04:02 PM
A Decent Interlude
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Penske_Account
That's not nice. I thought we had rapprochement?
Off the Politics board, for sure. Here, well, I've taken you off my ignore list. That's a start.

Tyrone Slothrop 07-27-2006 04:02 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Penske_Account
That's not nice. I thought we had rapprochement?
Maybe he thought your socks were lobbing the occasional missile at him.

taxwonk 07-27-2006 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
he has been on a diet, at least on the internet, since yesterday. he's obviously just hungry-mean. let it roll off you man. Remember when we had a tubby president instead of a fit one- back then a guy could get fat and not feel inferior:(
I'm neither hungry nor mean. But that could change.

Diane_Keaton 07-27-2006 04:51 PM
Compassionate humanistic insight of yore
 
Quote:
Originally posted by creamy_ass_face
I am myopic.

I am irrational.

I am a fool on a lonely hill of debunked ideology.
All true, I'm afraid. At least you are better lovers, though.

Gattigap 07-27-2006 05:40 PM
Run! (Away!)
 
Proud Republicans are running for office with ads that forget to mention that they're Republicans. C'mon, fellas! Chest out, chin high! Walk with pride!

Penske_Account 07-27-2006 06:13 PM
A Decent Interlude
 
Quote:
Originally posted by taxwonk
Off the Politics board, for sure. Here, well, I've taken you off my ignore list. That's a start.
I am unwavering FoI, no matter how ruthless they are. If that helps.

I am always the original FoP, although I am not sure that has any currency on this Board.

Penske_Account 07-27-2006 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Maybe he thought your socks were lobbing the occasional missile at him.
I quit socking so I am not sure what you mean.

Penske_Account 07-27-2006 06:18 PM
Compassionate humanistic insight of yore
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
All true, I'm afraid. At least you are better lovers, though.
When I was political, back in the day, people frequently noted that while I espoused conservative doctrine, my lifestyle was more that of a democrat.

FWIW.

Penske_Account 07-27-2006 06:19 PM
Run! (Away!)
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Gattigap
Proud Republicans are running for office with ads that forget to mention that they're Republicans. C'mon, fellas! Chest out, chin high! Walk with pride!
Kennedy? Obviously a Democrat in disguise. Or the white sheep of the family. No offence.

sgtclub 07-27-2006 10:12 PM
Discuss
 
  • 1. Nice fences do not stop missiles, rockets, and mortars.

    2. Complete removal of Israeli forces and Jewish settlers from an area does not achieve anything positive, but merely signals Israeli weakness, inviting escalated terror and aggression from Israel’s enemies.

    3. Hezbollah and Hamas cannot be defeated with air strikes. There is no effective alternative to ground invasion and ongoing control of the ground.

    4. Unless the Israeli military controls the ground on the other side of fences, those fences achieve nothing.

    5. Goodwill gestures by Israel tend to increase terror and invite further demands.

    6. Goodwill gestures by Israel never produce moderation of Arab goals and demands, but rather produce the opposite.

    7. Terror is not caused by settlements, but rather fueled by the removal of settlements.

    8. Terror is not caused by Israeli military occupation, but rather allowed to flourish with the removal of Israeli military occupation.

    9. It is impossible for there to be two sovereign entities between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean.

    10. No matter how many concessions Israel makes, the world will always justify Arab terrorism, because there is always one more capitulation that Israel has failed to make (e.g., giving up the “Shebaa Farm” on the Golan Heights).

    11. No matter how nice Israel is to Israeli Arabs, no matter how many affirmative-action programs it implements, it will always be accused of being an “apartheid regime.”

    12. Much of the Israeli far Left is essentially an anti-Semitic movement that seeks Israel’s destruction and automatically endorses the enemies of Israel in all things.

    13. The Israeli Labor party and its Kadima cousin may be more effective at fighting terror, once they decide to do so, than Likud. The reason is that if Likud were fighting terror, the Israeli Left would take to the streets in mass demonstrations against Israeli imperialism and aggression, and the leftist Israeli media would declare that 400,000 protesters turned out.

    14. The Israeli Left will oppose every conceivable act of Israeli self-defense, other than total capitulation.



    15. Jewish far-leftism is a very real enemy of Israel.

    16. Some international observers don’t mind seeing Jewish civilians murdered by terrorists, and will applaud and justify all such murders as comeuppances for the Jews’ being so insensitive.

    17. Israeli niceness and flexibility often encourage and embolden anti-Semites.

    18. Israel-bashing is often driven by anti-Semitism, and many Israel-bashers are increasingly open about their delight at seeing Jewish civilians murdered.

    19. Israeli pursuit of the “peace process” has triggered a worldwide storm of anti-Semitism.

    20. Terrorists cannot be appeased.

    21. Arab terrorists do not morph into statesmen.

    22. Looking for Palestinian moderates in politics is a fruitless endeavor.

    23. Many Israel-bashers do not care about dead Arab civilians, other than as a useful bludgeon with which to de-legitimize Israel.

    24. Much of the Western Left would celebrate the destruction of Israel.

    25. The vast majority of Israeli Arabs want to see Israel destroyed and the Jews thrown into the sea.

    26. There are hundreds of Jewish professors in Israel who serve as an academic fifth column for terrorism and will do almost anything to collaborate with the enemies of their country.

    27. The Arabs will not accept an independent Israel in any set of borders, no matter how small. Thus nothing can be achieved by reducing Israel’s territory, other than signalling weakness and vulnerability.

    28. Much of the Western media believes that there are no problems on earth that could not be greatly ameliorated by destroying Israel.

    29. Most of the governments of Europe seem not to believe Jews should be allowed to defend themselves from aggression.

    30. The only country on earth that is expected to respond to the mass murder of its civilians by turning the other cheek is Israel. The only country on earth that has spent many years trying to defeat terrorism by turning the other cheek is Israel.

    31. Whenever Israel responds firmly to aggression and terrorism, it will always be criticized for a “disproportionate” response.

    32. Most of those who claim that anti-Zionism is different from anti-Semitism are anti-Semites.

    33. The only people on earth whom the Left believes should be denied the right to self-determination and self-defense are the Jews.

    34. “Palestinians” are not a people and never were. They are simply Arabs who happened to migrate into historic Western Palestine. They have no right to statehood.

    35. The Golan Heights are not “Syrian” and never were.

    36. Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein are anti-Semites, and so are many of their supporters.

    37. Israeli politicians are among the stupidest on earth.

    38. Israeli leftists never learn from the failures of their policies and “ideas.” Every failure is explained away by the fact that their policies were not applied thoroughly enough.

    39. The moral and legal responsibility for every single Arab civilian death or injury in the Middle East conflict rests squarely upon the shoulders of the aggressive Arab fascists and terrorists who have provoked Israel.

    40. There is no moral or legal reason for Israel to refrain from attacking terrorists and murderers when they hide among civilians.

    41. Many of the “anarchists” and others who protest against Israel’s security wall want the wall removed because they want terrorists to murder Jewish civilians.

    42. Palestinians are the Sudeten Germans of the Middle East.

    43. Israel has no obligation to share its water resources with the “Palestinians” or anyone else.

    44. There are no non-military solutions to the problem of terrorism.

    45. Talk of “peace” is revealing, because it is only necessary to consider making peace when you are faced with an enemy. Israel is faced with a host of committed enemies, and it is they who will not accept a fair peace settlement.

    46. There are no significant differences between the agenda of the PLO and the agenda of Hamas and Hezbollah.

    47. The Middle East conflict is not a marital spat. Going through the pretense of holding hands and holding talks does not calm tensions and achieves nothing.

    48. One cannot make peace by pretending that war does not exist.

    49. One cannot buy off anti-Semites and Islamofascists with trade concessions and subsidies.

    50. The only way to stop terrorism is to kill terrorists.

    —Steven Plaut is a professor at the University of Haifa.

taxwonk 07-27-2006 10:37 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by sgtclub
Some arrogant asshole with a ridiculously long list that drowns the many good points it makes by burying them in smug, arrogant hyperbole
Steven Plaut needs to learn that brevity is the soul of wit.

Tyrone Slothrop 07-27-2006 10:44 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by sgtclub
  • 1. Nice fences do not stop missiles, rockets, and mortars.

    2. Complete removal of Israeli forces and Jewish settlers from an area does not achieve anything positive, but merely signals Israeli weakness, inviting escalated terror and aggression from Israel’s enemies.

    3. Hezbollah and Hamas cannot be defeated with air strikes. There is no effective alternative to ground invasion and ongoing control of the ground.

    4. Unless the Israeli military controls the ground on the other side of fences, those fences achieve nothing.

    5. Goodwill gestures by Israel tend to increase terror and invite further demands.

    6. Goodwill gestures by Israel never produce moderation of Arab goals and demands, but rather produce the opposite.

    7. Terror is not caused by settlements, but rather fueled by the removal of settlements.

    8. Terror is not caused by Israeli military occupation, but rather allowed to flourish with the removal of Israeli military occupation.

    9. It is impossible for there to be two sovereign entities between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean.

    10. No matter how many concessions Israel makes, the world will always justify Arab terrorism, because there is always one more capitulation that Israel has failed to make (e.g., giving up the “Shebaa Farm” on the Golan Heights).

    11. No matter how nice Israel is to Israeli Arabs, no matter how many affirmative-action programs it implements, it will always be accused of being an “apartheid regime.”

    12. Much of the Israeli far Left is essentially an anti-Semitic movement that seeks Israel’s destruction and automatically endorses the enemies of Israel in all things.

    13. The Israeli Labor party and its Kadima cousin may be more effective at fighting terror, once they decide to do so, than Likud. The reason is that if Likud were fighting terror, the Israeli Left would take to the streets in mass demonstrations against Israeli imperialism and aggression, and the leftist Israeli media would declare that 400,000 protesters turned out.

    14. The Israeli Left will oppose every conceivable act of Israeli self-defense, other than total capitulation.



    15. Jewish far-leftism is a very real enemy of Israel.

    16. Some international observers don’t mind seeing Jewish civilians murdered by terrorists, and will applaud and justify all such murders as comeuppances for the Jews’ being so insensitive.

    17. Israeli niceness and flexibility often encourage and embolden anti-Semites.

    18. Israel-bashing is often driven by anti-Semitism, and many Israel-bashers are increasingly open about their delight at seeing Jewish civilians murdered.

    19. Israeli pursuit of the “peace process” has triggered a worldwide storm of anti-Semitism.

    20. Terrorists cannot be appeased.

    21. Arab terrorists do not morph into statesmen.

    22. Looking for Palestinian moderates in politics is a fruitless endeavor.

    23. Many Israel-bashers do not care about dead Arab civilians, other than as a useful bludgeon with which to de-legitimize Israel.

    24. Much of the Western Left would celebrate the destruction of Israel.

    25. The vast majority of Israeli Arabs want to see Israel destroyed and the Jews thrown into the sea.

    26. There are hundreds of Jewish professors in Israel who serve as an academic fifth column for terrorism and will do almost anything to collaborate with the enemies of their country.

    27. The Arabs will not accept an independent Israel in any set of borders, no matter how small. Thus nothing can be achieved by reducing Israel’s territory, other than signalling weakness and vulnerability.

    28. Much of the Western media believes that there are no problems on earth that could not be greatly ameliorated by destroying Israel.

    29. Most of the governments of Europe seem not to believe Jews should be allowed to defend themselves from aggression.

    30. The only country on earth that is expected to respond to the mass murder of its civilians by turning the other cheek is Israel. The only country on earth that has spent many years trying to defeat terrorism by turning the other cheek is Israel.

    31. Whenever Israel responds firmly to aggression and terrorism, it will always be criticized for a “disproportionate” response.

    32. Most of those who claim that anti-Zionism is different from anti-Semitism are anti-Semites.

    33. The only people on earth whom the Left believes should be denied the right to self-determination and self-defense are the Jews.

    34. “Palestinians” are not a people and never were. They are simply Arabs who happened to migrate into historic Western Palestine. They have no right to statehood.

    35. The Golan Heights are not “Syrian” and never were.

    36. Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstein are anti-Semites, and so are many of their supporters.

    37. Israeli politicians are among the stupidest on earth.

    38. Israeli leftists never learn from the failures of their policies and “ideas.” Every failure is explained away by the fact that their policies were not applied thoroughly enough.

    39. The moral and legal responsibility for every single Arab civilian death or injury in the Middle East conflict rests squarely upon the shoulders of the aggressive Arab fascists and terrorists who have provoked Israel.

    40. There is no moral or legal reason for Israel to refrain from attacking terrorists and murderers when they hide among civilians.

    41. Many of the “anarchists” and others who protest against Israel’s security wall want the wall removed because they want terrorists to murder Jewish civilians.

    42. Palestinians are the Sudeten Germans of the Middle East.

    43. Israel has no obligation to share its water resources with the “Palestinians” or anyone else.

    44. There are no non-military solutions to the problem of terrorism.

    45. Talk of “peace” is revealing, because it is only necessary to consider making peace when you are faced with an enemy. Israel is faced with a host of committed enemies, and it is they who will not accept a fair peace settlement.

    46. There are no significant differences between the agenda of the PLO and the agenda of Hamas and Hezbollah.

    47. The Middle East conflict is not a marital spat. Going through the pretense of holding hands and holding talks does not calm tensions and achieves nothing.

    48. One cannot make peace by pretending that war does not exist.

    49. One cannot buy off anti-Semites and Islamofascists with trade concessions and subsidies.

    50. The only way to stop terrorism is to kill terrorists.

    —Steven Plaut is a professor at the University of Haifa.
Is there any one of those propositions you'd particularly like to discuss?

Penske_Account 07-27-2006 10:53 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Is there any one of those propositions you'd particularly like to discuss?

How about this one:

50. The only way to stop terrorism is to kill terrorists.

I think he is slightly off here. It should be, "the only way to stop terrorism, is to kill and/or destroy, as the case may be, all of the terrorists, and any and all persons (individuals, entities, NGOS and/or state actors) who actively and/or passively, by intentional or negligent action, commission or omission, support and/or further the cause of terrorism and/or terrorists."

Thoughts?

eta: I also think he should add:

51. The Nobel Peace Prise Committee is anti-Semitic, and so is anyone who supported, endorsed or lauded Yasser Arafat's award of said Prise.

Sexual Harassment Panda 07-27-2006 11:56 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by sgtclub
  • 43. Israel has no obligation to share its water resources with the “Palestinians” or anyone else.
I want to discuss this one.

I don't think we should have to share our water with the idiots in McMansions in the Central Valley. Find your own damn water. You knew it was a desert when you signed the contract.

Penske_Account 07-27-2006 11:58 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
I want to discuss this one.

I don't think we should have to share our water with the idiots in McMansions in the Central Valley. Find your own damn water. You knew it was a desert when you signed the contract.
I never thought I would say this, but I agree with you. Fuck those valley fuckers.

More seriously SHP, I'm back in the saddle here again, so keep it on the straight and narrow, cuz I am watching you!

Diane_Keaton 07-28-2006 12:17 AM
So is the "Syrian Ministry of Religious Endowment" considered a government entity in Syria? Cause it's Deputy Minister this week did a radio address telling everyone, Muslims and Christians alike, that the "time has come" and it is now incumbent upon all on-Jews to commit jihad against the "Descendants of Apes and Pigs' (Jews, according to the guy).
Getting pretty close to "Kill All The Tutsi" radio in Rwanda, I'd say. Haven't heard the Syrian goverment step in to temper the call to jihad. Tell me again, what the religion of peace is?

Sexual Harassment Panda 07-28-2006 12:39 AM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Penske_Account
I never thought I would say this, but I agree with you. Fuck those valley fuckers.

More seriously SHP, I'm back in the saddle here again, so keep it on the straight and narrow, cuz I am watching you!
Yeah, well, better me than those Catholic junior high girls you got in so much trouble over.

Sexual Harassment Panda 07-28-2006 12:41 AM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by sgtclub
  • 33. The only people on earth whom the Left believes should be denied the right to self-determination and self-defense are the Jews.
Not true. We like the trial lawyers and the Hollywood types just fine.

Penske_Account 07-28-2006 12:42 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Tell me again, what the religion of peace is?
Do you mean "Religion of Peace and Tolerance"?

Penske_Account 07-28-2006 12:43 AM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Yeah, well, better me than those Catholic junior high girls you got in so much trouble over.
I wish.

Hank Chinaski 07-28-2006 09:53 AM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Penske_Account
How about this one:

50. The only way to stop terrorism is to kill terrorists.

I think he is slightly off here. It should be, "the only way to stop terrorism, is to kill and/or destroy, as the case may be, all of the terrorists, and any and all persons (individuals, entities, NGOS and/or state actors) who actively and/or passively, by intentional or negligent action, commission or omission, support and/or further the cause of terrorism and/or terrorists."

Thoughts?

eta: I also think he should add:

51. The Nobel Peace Prise Committee is anti-Semitic, and so is anyone who supported, endorsed or lauded Yasser Arafat's award of said Prise.
52. Do not enter a powered vehicle of any sort with a Kennedy male at the wheel.

Adam Karola (sp?)- "give the jews a chunk of the baja desert. leave what is Israel for those who claim it. the new Israel will flouish- the old die."

Sidd Finch 07-28-2006 12:02 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by sgtclub

{a very long list}

Some are easy to agree with. Others are so snide and stupid as to be insulting (i.e., #1 -- who says that "nice fences DO stop rockets"?)

Others reveal a lot more about the author than anything else, e.g. the use of "air quotes" around the word Palestinians. Do such people not exist? (Or does the author consider them less than people?)

Others set up a false dichotomy -- i.e., settlements don't cause terrorism, removal of settlements does. This is stupid. Neither "causes" terrorism, but both contributed in some ways. Settlements certainly added fuel to the fire, making more people support the terrorists (and created targets for them). Removal contributed in some respects, by striking some terrorists as a sign of weakness. But trying to isolate this notion in this half-assed way is, well, half-assed.

taxwonk 07-28-2006 12:16 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Some are easy to agree with. Others are so snide and stupid as to be insulting (i.e., #1 -- who says that "nice fences DO stop rockets"?)

Others reveal a lot more about the author than anything else, e.g. the use of "air quotes" around the word Palestinians. Do such people not exist? (Or does the author consider them less than people?)

Others set up a false dichotomy -- i.e., settlements don't cause terrorism, removal of settlements does. This is stupid. Neither "causes" terrorism, but both contributed in some ways. Settlements certainly added fuel to the fire, making more people support the terrorists (and created targets for them). Removal contributed in some respects, by striking some terrorists as a sign of weakness. But trying to isolate this notion in this half-assed way is, well, half-assed.
We appear to have reached the point of agreement on at least some things about Israel. I'm glad. It makes me so blue when we fight.

Sidd Finch 07-28-2006 12:24 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by taxwonk
We appear to have reached the point of agreement on at least some things about Israel. I'm glad. It makes me so blue when we fight.

We agree on more than you think, I would guess.

But I truly, deeply believe that the left/Dems/liberals whatever you call them (us, or me) in this country need to convince themselves that the destruction of entities like Hezbollah is the world's A-number-one priority.

Among other reasons, because it is.

And because it gives us much more credibility when we point out that maybe invading countries that don't harbor or support such groups and are not remotely threatening to us isn't the best way to go about achieving that priority.

Hank Chinaski 07-28-2006 12:27 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sidd Finch
We agree on more than you think, I would guess.

But I truly, deeply believe that the left/Dems/liberals whatever you call them (us, or me) in this country need to convince themselves that the destruction of entities like Hezbollah is the world's A-number-one priority.

Among other reasons, because it is.

And because it gives us much more credibility when we point out that maybe invading countries that don't harbor or support such groups and are not remotely threatening to us isn't the best way to go about achieving that priority.
2.

and on that note....... Ty mentions Zarquawi (sp?) and his al queda guys were allowed to roam free in Iraq, thus given us the moral imperitive to invade under the Sidd doctrine.

Hank Chinaski 298-23

Adder 07-28-2006 12:49 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sidd Finch
But I truly, deeply believe that the left/Dems/liberals whatever you call them (us, or me) in this country need to convince themselves that the destruction of entities like Hezbollah is the world's A-number-one priority.

Among other reasons, because it is.

And because it gives us much more credibility when we point out that maybe invading countries that don't harbor or support such groups and are not remotely threatening to us isn't the best way to go about achieving that priority.
I don't think the Dems and liberals disagree that defeating entities like Hezbollah is the number one priority,* even if they (we) do not all agree about how to best go about winning the fight.



*I intentionally leave aside the crazy left socialist types.

Tyrone Slothrop 07-28-2006 12:50 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
and on that note....... Ty mentions Zarquawi (sp?) and his al queda guys were allowed to roam free in Iraq, thus given us the moral imperitive to invade under the Sidd doctrine.
He was roaming free in northern Iraq, outside the area controlled by Saddam Hussein, so following your train of thought -- always a scary proposition -- we should have invaded Kurdistan to crush the Kurds.

Tyrone Slothrop 07-28-2006 12:53 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Adder
I don't think the Dems and liberals disagree that defeating entities like Hezbollah is the number one priority,* even if they (we) do not all agree about how to best go about winning the fight.



*I intentionally leave aside the crazy left socialist types.
With all respect to Sidd, whom I love like a brother, talking about destroying entities like Hezbollah is crazy. Defeating, sure, but not destroying. It's a political party that owes its strength and legitimacy to the fact that something like a third of Lebanon supports it. "Destroying" it starts to sound like genocide, which I know Sidd doesn't mean. In this way, Hezbollah is different from a terrorist group like Al Qaeda.

Sidd Finch 07-28-2006 01:18 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Adder
I don't think the Dems and liberals disagree that defeating entities like Hezbollah is the number one priority,* even if they (we) do not all agree about how to best go about winning the fight.



*I intentionally leave aside the crazy left socialist types.
I didn't say "defeating," I said "destruction". I don't mean a political, "hearts and minds" kind of defeat. I mean destruction -- and a recognition that when Hezbollah launches rockets and hides in civilian areas, the civilian blood that spills in a counterattack is on Hezbollah's hands.

Sidd Finch 07-28-2006 01:22 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
With all respect to Sidd, whom I love like a brother, talking about destroying entities like Hezbollah is crazy. Defeating, sure, but not destroying. It's a political party that owes its strength and legitimacy to the fact that something like a third of Lebanon supports it. "Destroying" it starts to sound like genocide, which I know Sidd doesn't mean. In this way, Hezbollah is different from a terrorist group like Al Qaeda.

So we should not have destroyed the Nazis because they enjoyed the support of a lot of Germans?

Seriously... Hezbollah is a military force. So long as it remains one, it has no legitimacy as a political party. Zero. If they disarm, then they regain legitimacy -- but there seems to be no desire to do that.

You cannot be a legitimate part of a national government if you insist on retaining a separate army that is independent of that nation.

Gattigap 07-28-2006 01:46 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sidd Finch
So we should not have destroyed the Nazis because they enjoyed the support of a lot of Germans?

Seriously... Hezbollah is a military force. So long as it remains one, it has no legitimacy as a political party. Zero. If they disarm, then they regain legitimacy -- but there seems to be no desire to do that.

You cannot be a legitimate part of a national government if you insist on retaining a separate army that is independent of that nation.
Then it seems clear that what Israel must do is undertake a serious, house-to-house invasion of South Lebanon, in which Israelis take the significant losses which are part of urban combat. They must conquer Lebanon utterly and completely, and be prepared to occupy it for a decade or two. Again.

The US will have to do the same thing for Baghdad. We did level Fallujah, but this presumably would be different because literally destroying Baghdad would not be an option.

sgtclub 07-28-2006 02:15 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sidd Finch
So we should not have destroyed the Nazis because they enjoyed the support of a lot of Germans?

Seriously... Hezbollah is a military force. So long as it remains one, it has no legitimacy as a political party. Zero. If they disarm, then they regain legitimacy -- but there seems to be no desire to do that.

You cannot be a legitimate part of a national government if you insist on retaining a separate army that is independent of that nation.
Since when did Sidd become the voice of reason around here?

Sidd Finch 07-28-2006 02:24 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Gattigap
Then it seems clear that what Israel must do is undertake a serious, house-to-house invasion of South Lebanon, in which Israelis take the significant losses which are part of urban combat. They must conquer Lebanon utterly and completely, and be prepared to occupy it for a decade or two. Again.

You're right. Israel should just keep giving up territory and apologizing for letting its towns get in the way of those rockets. Eventually, I'm sure that doing this enough times will convince Hezbollah that Israel deserves to exist.





Quote:
The US will have to do the same thing for Baghdad. We did level Fallujah, but this presumably would be different because literally destroying Baghdad would not be an option.

I don't have a clue what the US needs to do in Baghdad. It's too late to hit the rewind button and not start the fucking Bush fiasco in the first place.

Gattigap 07-28-2006 02:33 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Sidd Finch
You're right. Israel should just keep giving up territory and apologizing for letting its towns get in the way of those rockets. Eventually, I'm sure that doing this enough times will convince Hezbollah that Israel deserves to exist.
See, you're getting all defensive and shit, when all I'm saying is that to "destroy" an organization like Hezbollah as you've advocated will require far, far more than the "Untouchables" strategy that Israel has deployed so far. Implicitly, I'm guessing this is your plan. Yes?

taxwonk 07-28-2006 02:54 PM
Discuss
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Gattigap
Then it seems clear that what Israel must do is undertake a serious, house-to-house invasion of South Lebanon, in which Israelis take the significant losses which are part of urban combat. They must conquer Lebanon utterly and completely, and be prepared to occupy it for a decade or two. Again.

The US will have to do the same thing for Baghdad. We did level Fallujah, but this presumably would be different because literally destroying Baghdad would not be an option.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The more I look at problems like Israel, Iraq, Rwanda, Darfur, etc., the more I find myself thinking that Imperialism, for all the problems it created, may be the only solution.

Apparently, I'm not alone in this. Google Niall Ferguson. I don't agree with everything the man says by a long shot, but he does utter some of the same foul truths I've been saying.


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