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-   -   Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years! (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=885)

Tyrone Slothrop 09-15-2023 07:41 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533994)
Ty:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...en-laptop.html

From those rabid right wingers at the Daily Mail.

You're kidding, right? Don't know this site, but this matches what I know about the Daily Mail:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/

eta: OK, I tried to read that. It is tendentious nonsense. In addition to the credibility issues with the Daily Mail, Shellenberger has his own, and if you want to hear that from a respective non-lefty, read Slate Star Codex's lengthy review of San Fransicko. It's not that he make shit up, he pushes the facts about as far as they can go. If you are relying on his version of the facts, well, you shouldn't.

To you, what is the single most damning fact in that story (as opposed to conclusory statements about what Shellenberger thinks shared without support)?

I mean, seriously. You find that junk persuasive? The most telling thing about it is the republication of the lurid and embarrassing photos of Hunter Biden, which to any fair-minded person is a big fat reminder that the Hunter Biden episode is a continuing dirty-tricks effort by conservatives to make bad news for Joe Biden.

Lobbying Twitter is not a crime or a violation of the First Amendment, and everyone understands that Musk was selective about what he shared with Shellenberger and the others. If you don't think conservatives were lobbying Twitter just as hard, you are deluding yourself. Try reading this more neutral account of the Twitter Files from NPR, and then rethink that breathless Daily Mail piece. Or this New York Magazine piece, refuting the Post's theory of the case:
In the Post’s telling, the emails on Hunter Biden’s laptop contained dispositive evidence that Joe Biden had used his power as vice-president in 2015 to advance the interests of Burisma, a Ukrainian natural-gas company that had employed Hunter Biden. In the conservative media’s account, meanwhile, Hunter’s “laptop from hell” proved that Joe Biden had engaged in acts of corruption so wanton that they made Donald Trump look like Ralph Nader.

In reality, neither the Post’s reporting nor any subsequent investigations of Hunter Biden’s laptop (or his relationship with Burisma) has documented a single instance in which Joe Biden used public power to aid his son’s private interests.

There is little question that Hunter Biden was an influence peddler who sought to monetize his access to the American vice-president. Burisma was not paying Hunter $50,000 a month for his expertise on the Eastern European natural-gas market. It was paying to be one degree of separation away from Hunter’s father.

This is sordid. But it’s also mundane. If influence peddling were illegal, K Street would house a sprawling penitentiary. Hunter monetizing his last name is not a noteworthy scandal. Joe Biden changing U.S. policy to aid that monetization effort would be. Thus, the key claim in the right’s narrative about the “laptop from hell” is that Joe Biden pressured the Ukrainian government to oust its prosecutor general so as to protect Burisma from legal scrutiny.

The Post purported to substantiate that claim, but in reality did no such thing. The tabloid did uncover an apparent email that Vadym Pozharskyi, an adviser to the board of Burisma, had sent to Hunter Biden in April 2015, wherein Pozharskyi thanked Hunter for “inviting me to D.C. and giving an opportunity to meet your father and spent [sic] some time together.” Given unfettered access to 217 gigabytes of (what was ostensibly) Hunter Biden’s personal data, this was the closest the Post could come to evidence of Joe Biden’s corruption: an email that suggested that one of Hunter’s associates at Burisma had some unspecified form of contact with Joe Biden during a trip to D.C. The message does not indicate that Pozharskyi received a private audience with the vice-president, let alone one in which he got to lobby Biden for Burisma’s interests.

Nevertheless, the Post characterized this as a “smoking-gun email.” It proceeded to assert that after his meeting with Pozharskyi, the “elder Biden pressured government officials in Ukraine into firing a prosecutor who was investigating the company.” This was false.

It is true that, as vice-president, Joe Biden pressured Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko to fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin. But Biden did so at the behest of a coalition of Western interests. In addition to the U.S. government, the International Monetary Fund, World Bank, and European Union all believed that Shokin was complicit in endemic corruption that was diverting development funds to oligarchs. And not without reason. Troves of diamonds, cash, and other assorted valuables were discovered at the homes of Shokin’s underlings, indicating that they had been taking bribes. Yet the Ukrainian prosecutor’s office declined to take the officials to court; individual prosecutors who tried to pursue the case were fired or resigned.

In truth, Shokin was not fired for investigating Burisma but for the opposite; one of the West’s complaints about his office was that it failed to pursue a corruption inquiry against Burisma founder Mykola Zlochevsky.

The Post claimed otherwise solely on the basis of statements that Shokin made after losing his job. Beyond the fact that Shokin is an unreliable narrator with a clear motive to disparage Joe Biden, even Shokin’s remarks themselves did not actually support the tabloid’s claims: While the Post reported that Shokin “was investigating” Burisma at the time he was fired, Shokin only claims that he had made “specific plans” to investigate the company. Conveniently, whereas an active investigation could be affirmed or falsified by a paper trail, it is impossible to disprove what Shokin did or did not “plan” to do.

All of which is to say: On its face, the New York Post story was dishonest and misleading.

And at the time of its publication, it was far from clear that the story could be taken at face value. On its way from Hunter Biden’s custody to the New York Post’s, Biden’s data passed through several different hands, including those of President Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani, who had been on a crusade to generate incriminating information about the Bidens’ relationship with Burisma. Anyone in that chain of custody could have added files to the laptop. The primary author of the Post’s story refused to put his name on it out of concern that the tabloid had failed to confirm the veracity of the documents in question.

Subsequently, forensic analysts would confirm the authenticity of some of Hunter Biden’s documents, while concluding that much of the data lacked the cryptographic signatures necessary for verification.

In the summer of 2020, federal law enforcement had told Twitter executives to be on guard against possible foreign hacks aimed at influencing the U.S. presidential election. These concerns were, of course, informed by the fact that Russian agents had hacked Democratic Party emails in 2016 as part of a political interference campaign.

In this context, the Post’s Hunter Biden story raised red flags with Twitter’s content-moderation team. After all, that story consisted of ill-gotten emails fed to the Post by Donald Trump’s lawyer, who’d spent months consorting with Trump sympathizers in Eastern Europe. The platform responded by taking the extraordinary step of suppressing the story on its platform, marking it as unsafe and even preventing Twitter users from sharing it via direct message.

In “The Twitter Files, Part One: How and Why Twitter Blocked the Hunter Biden Laptop Story,” Matt Taibbi sheds light on Twitter’s internal deliberations over this decision. Taibbi frames his findings as a demonstration of Twitter’s bias in favor of Democrats. But his reporting does little to support that claim.

In company email exchanges obtained by Taibbi, Twitter safety chief Yoel Roth and Deputy General Counsel Jim Baker explained that they had chosen to mark tweets linking to the Post story as “unsafe” on the grounds that such tweets disseminated “hacked materials,” a violation of Twitter’s terms of service. Both Roth and Baker acknowledged that they did not actually know that the Post’s piece was based on hacked materials. “Given the SEVERE risks here and lessons of 2016,” however, Roth explained, “we’re erring on the side of including a warning and preventing the content from being amplified.”

In the version of pre-Musk Twitter conjured by conservative rhetoric, one would expect universal assent to this judgment, if not, replies reading, “Yes! This is an excellent pretext for a coup against the bad orange man!” But Taibbi’s documents actually reveal internal skepticism of the decision, and expressions of ambivalence even from those who endorsed it. Taibbi quotes an anonymous former employee as saying, “Hacking was the excuse, but within a few hours, pretty much everyone realized that wasn’t going to hold. But no one had the guts to reverse it.” This makes it sound as though Roth’s avowed concerns about hacking were just a fig leaf for suppressing a story inconvenient for Democrats.

Yet despite having access to virtually all of Twitter’s internal communications, Taibbi produced no actual evidence that the decision was motivated by anything beyond concern that Twitter would find itself complicit in promulgating hacked materials.

The closest thing Taibbi has to evidence of untoward partisan influence is an email from the Biden campaign flagging several Hunter-related tweets for Twitter’s content moderators, who then “handled” them. But all of these tweets appeared to feature nude photos of Hunter Biden that were non-consensually shared, an unambiguous violation of Twitter’s terms of service. Taibbi, for his part, chose not to provide his readers with that context. The reporter did however acknowledge that there was nothing unusual about the Biden team’s outreach, and that the Trump White House also routinely sent Twitter content moderation complaints.

Regardless, Twitter recognized that it had overreached and ceased blocking links to the New York Post story after only one day. By suppressing it for such a short period of time, while generating a giant media controversy about the story, it is plausible that Twitter’s decision-making actually increased the Post article’s reach.

In sum: The New York Post published a story based on data that was apparently — but, at the time, unverifiably — Hunter Biden’s. That story falsely purported to offer “smoking gun” evidence of Joe Biden’s corruption, when it actually provided no such thing. Faced with warnings from federal law enforcement about impending foreign hacks, and a story based on apparently stolen emails sourced from Rudy Giuliani, Twitter’s content moderation team chose to suppress the Post article. That decision was internally controversial, and even those who supported it said that they wished they had more information about the source of the emails. Within 24 hours, Twitter reversed course. It is possible that this reduced the ultimate reach of the Post’s story, which, given that story’s mendacious content, probably would have been beneficial to public understanding of the Trump-Biden race (after all, there was exponentially more evidence that Donald Trump had used public power to advance his family’s private business interests than evidence that Biden had done so, yet the Post’s story conveyed the opposite impression). But it’s also possible that Twitter’s decision actually increased the story’s prominence by endowing it with an aura of forbidden knowledge. Separately, when the Biden campaign flagged tweets that featured pornographic images, Twitter responded by enforcing its own rules. ....
Get a grip.

Hank Chinaski 09-15-2023 08:27 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533995)
You're kidding, right? Don't know this site, but this matches what I know about the Daily Mail:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/

eta: OK, I tried to read that. It is tendentious nonsense. In addition to the credibility issues with the Daily Mail, Shellenberger has his own, and if you want to hear that from a respective non-lefty, read Slate Star Codex's lengthy review of San Fransicko. It's not that he make shit up, he pushes the facts about as far as they can go. If you are relying on his version of the facts, well, you shouldn't.

To you, what is the single most damning fact in that story (as opposed to conclusory statements about what Shellenberger thinks shared without support)?

I mean, seriously. You find that junk persuasive? The most telling thing about it is the republication of the lurid and embarrassing photos of Hunter Biden, which to any fair-minded person is a big fat reminder that the Hunter Biden episode is a continuing dirty-tricks effort by conservatives to make bad news for Joe Biden.

Lobbying Twitter is not a crime or a violation of the First Amendment, and everyone understands that Musk was selective about what he shared with Shellenberger and the others. If you don't think conservatives were lobbying Twitter just as hard, you are deluding yourself. Try reading this more neutral account of the Twitter Files from NPR, and then rethink that breathless Daily Mail piece. Or this New York Magazine piece, refuting the Post's theory of the case:
In the Post’s telling, the emails on Hunter Biden’s laptop contained dispositive evidence that Joe Biden had used his power as vice-president in 2015 to advance the interests of Burisma, a Ukrainian natural-gas company that had employed Hunter Biden. In the conservative media’s account, meanwhile, Hunter’s “laptop from hell” proved that Joe Biden had engaged in acts of corruption so wanton that they made Donald Trump look like Ralph Nader.

In reality, neither the Post’s reporting nor any subsequent investigations of Hunter Biden’s laptop (or his relationship with Burisma) has documented a single instance in which Joe Biden used public power to aid his son’s private interests.

There is little question that Hunter Biden was an influence peddler who sought to monetize his access to the American vice-president. Burisma was not paying Hunter $50,000 a month for his expertise on the Eastern European natural-gas market. It was paying to be one degree of separation away from Hunter’s father.

This is sordid. But it’s also mundane. If influence peddling were illegal, K Street would house a sprawling penitentiary. Hunter monetizing his last name is not a noteworthy scandal. Joe Biden changing U.S. policy to aid that monetization effort would be. Thus, the key claim in the right’s narrative about the “laptop from hell” is that Joe Biden pressured the Ukrainian government to oust its prosecutor general so as to protect Burisma from legal scrutiny.

The Post purported to substantiate that claim, but in reality did no such thing. The tabloid did uncover an apparent email that Vadym Pozharskyi, an adviser to the board of Burisma, had sent to Hunter Biden in April 2015, wherein Pozharskyi thanked Hunter for “inviting me to D.C. and giving an opportunity to meet your father and spent [sic] some time together.” Given unfettered access to 217 gigabytes of (what was ostensibly) Hunter Biden’s personal data, this was the closest the Post could come to evidence of Joe Biden’s corruption: an email that suggested that one of Hunter’s associates at Burisma had some unspecified form of contact with Joe Biden during a trip to D.C. The message does not indicate that Pozharskyi received a private audience with the vice-president, let alone one in which he got to lobby Biden for Burisma’s interests.

Nevertheless, the Post characterized this as a “smoking-gun email.” It proceeded to assert that after his meeting with Pozharskyi, the “elder Biden pressured government officials in Ukraine into firing a prosecutor who was investigating the company.” This was false.

It is true that, as vice-president, Joe Biden pressured Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko to fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin. But Biden did so at the behest of a coalition of Western interests. In addition to the U.S. government, the International Monetary Fund, World Bank, and European Union all believed that Shokin was complicit in endemic corruption that was diverting development funds to oligarchs. And not without reason. Troves of diamonds, cash, and other assorted valuables were discovered at the homes of Shokin’s underlings, indicating that they had been taking bribes. Yet the Ukrainian prosecutor’s office declined to take the officials to court; individual prosecutors who tried to pursue the case were fired or resigned.

In truth, Shokin was not fired for investigating Burisma but for the opposite; one of the West’s complaints about his office was that it failed to pursue a corruption inquiry against Burisma founder Mykola Zlochevsky.

The Post claimed otherwise solely on the basis of statements that Shokin made after losing his job. Beyond the fact that Shokin is an unreliable narrator with a clear motive to disparage Joe Biden, even Shokin’s remarks themselves did not actually support the tabloid’s claims: While the Post reported that Shokin “was investigating” Burisma at the time he was fired, Shokin only claims that he had made “specific plans” to investigate the company. Conveniently, whereas an active investigation could be affirmed or falsified by a paper trail, it is impossible to disprove what Shokin did or did not “plan” to do.

All of which is to say: On its face, the New York Post story was dishonest and misleading.

And at the time of its publication, it was far from clear that the story could be taken at face value. On its way from Hunter Biden’s custody to the New York Post’s, Biden’s data passed through several different hands, including those of President Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani, who had been on a crusade to generate incriminating information about the Bidens’ relationship with Burisma. Anyone in that chain of custody could have added files to the laptop. The primary author of the Post’s story refused to put his name on it out of concern that the tabloid had failed to confirm the veracity of the documents in question.

Subsequently, forensic analysts would confirm the authenticity of some of Hunter Biden’s documents, while concluding that much of the data lacked the cryptographic signatures necessary for verification.

In the summer of 2020, federal law enforcement had told Twitter executives to be on guard against possible foreign hacks aimed at influencing the U.S. presidential election. These concerns were, of course, informed by the fact that Russian agents had hacked Democratic Party emails in 2016 as part of a political interference campaign.

In this context, the Post’s Hunter Biden story raised red flags with Twitter’s content-moderation team. After all, that story consisted of ill-gotten emails fed to the Post by Donald Trump’s lawyer, who’d spent months consorting with Trump sympathizers in Eastern Europe. The platform responded by taking the extraordinary step of suppressing the story on its platform, marking it as unsafe and even preventing Twitter users from sharing it via direct message.

In “The Twitter Files, Part One: How and Why Twitter Blocked the Hunter Biden Laptop Story,” Matt Taibbi sheds light on Twitter’s internal deliberations over this decision. Taibbi frames his findings as a demonstration of Twitter’s bias in favor of Democrats. But his reporting does little to support that claim.

In company email exchanges obtained by Taibbi, Twitter safety chief Yoel Roth and Deputy General Counsel Jim Baker explained that they had chosen to mark tweets linking to the Post story as “unsafe” on the grounds that such tweets disseminated “hacked materials,” a violation of Twitter’s terms of service. Both Roth and Baker acknowledged that they did not actually know that the Post’s piece was based on hacked materials. “Given the SEVERE risks here and lessons of 2016,” however, Roth explained, “we’re erring on the side of including a warning and preventing the content from being amplified.”

In the version of pre-Musk Twitter conjured by conservative rhetoric, one would expect universal assent to this judgment, if not, replies reading, “Yes! This is an excellent pretext for a coup against the bad orange man!” But Taibbi’s documents actually reveal internal skepticism of the decision, and expressions of ambivalence even from those who endorsed it. Taibbi quotes an anonymous former employee as saying, “Hacking was the excuse, but within a few hours, pretty much everyone realized that wasn’t going to hold. But no one had the guts to reverse it.” This makes it sound as though Roth’s avowed concerns about hacking were just a fig leaf for suppressing a story inconvenient for Democrats.

Yet despite having access to virtually all of Twitter’s internal communications, Taibbi produced no actual evidence that the decision was motivated by anything beyond concern that Twitter would find itself complicit in promulgating hacked materials.

The closest thing Taibbi has to evidence of untoward partisan influence is an email from the Biden campaign flagging several Hunter-related tweets for Twitter’s content moderators, who then “handled” them. But all of these tweets appeared to feature nude photos of Hunter Biden that were non-consensually shared, an unambiguous violation of Twitter’s terms of service. Taibbi, for his part, chose not to provide his readers with that context. The reporter did however acknowledge that there was nothing unusual about the Biden team’s outreach, and that the Trump White House also routinely sent Twitter content moderation complaints.

Regardless, Twitter recognized that it had overreached and ceased blocking links to the New York Post story after only one day. By suppressing it for such a short period of time, while generating a giant media controversy about the story, it is plausible that Twitter’s decision-making actually increased the Post article’s reach.

In sum: The New York Post published a story based on data that was apparently — but, at the time, unverifiably — Hunter Biden’s. That story falsely purported to offer “smoking gun” evidence of Joe Biden’s corruption, when it actually provided no such thing. Faced with warnings from federal law enforcement about impending foreign hacks, and a story based on apparently stolen emails sourced from Rudy Giuliani, Twitter’s content moderation team chose to suppress the Post article. That decision was internally controversial, and even those who supported it said that they wished they had more information about the source of the emails. Within 24 hours, Twitter reversed course. It is possible that this reduced the ultimate reach of the Post’s story, which, given that story’s mendacious content, probably would have been beneficial to public understanding of the Trump-Biden race (after all, there was exponentially more evidence that Donald Trump had used public power to advance his family’s private business interests than evidence that Biden had done so, yet the Post’s story conveyed the opposite impression). But it’s also possible that Twitter’s decision actually increased the story’s prominence by endowing it with an aura of forbidden knowledge. Separately, when the Biden campaign flagged tweets that featured pornographic images, Twitter responded by enforcing its own rules. ....
Get a grip.

Did both you guys get laid off or retire or something?

sebastian_dangerfield 09-15-2023 09:12 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533995)
You're kidding, right? Don't know this site, but this matches what I know about the Daily Mail:

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/daily-mail/

eta: OK, I tried to read that. It is tendentious nonsense. In addition to the credibility issues with the Daily Mail, Shellenberger has his own, and if you want to hear that from a respective non-lefty, read Slate Star Codex's lengthy review of San Fransicko. It's not that he make shit up, he pushes the facts about as far as they can go. If you are relying on his version of the facts, well, you shouldn't.

To you, what is the single most damning fact in that story (as opposed to conclusory statements about what Shellenberger thinks shared without support)?

I mean, seriously. You find that junk persuasive? The most telling thing about it is the republication of the lurid and embarrassing photos of Hunter Biden, which to any fair-minded person is a big fat reminder that the Hunter Biden episode is a continuing dirty-tricks effort by conservatives to make bad news for Joe Biden.

Lobbying Twitter is not a crime or a violation of the First Amendment, and everyone understands that Musk was selective about what he shared with Shellenberger and the others. If you don't think conservatives were lobbying Twitter just as hard, you are deluding yourself. Try reading this more neutral account of the Twitter Files from NPR, and then rethink that breathless Daily Mail piece. Or this New York Magazine piece, refuting the Post's theory of the case:
In the Post’s telling, the emails on Hunter Biden’s laptop contained dispositive evidence that Joe Biden had used his power as vice-president in 2015 to advance the interests of Burisma, a Ukrainian natural-gas company that had employed Hunter Biden. In the conservative media’s account, meanwhile, Hunter’s “laptop from hell” proved that Joe Biden had engaged in acts of corruption so wanton that they made Donald Trump look like Ralph Nader.

In reality, neither the Post’s reporting nor any subsequent investigations of Hunter Biden’s laptop (or his relationship with Burisma) has documented a single instance in which Joe Biden used public power to aid his son’s private interests.

There is little question that Hunter Biden was an influence peddler who sought to monetize his access to the American vice-president. Burisma was not paying Hunter $50,000 a month for his expertise on the Eastern European natural-gas market. It was paying to be one degree of separation away from Hunter’s father.

This is sordid. But it’s also mundane. If influence peddling were illegal, K Street would house a sprawling penitentiary. Hunter monetizing his last name is not a noteworthy scandal. Joe Biden changing U.S. policy to aid that monetization effort would be. Thus, the key claim in the right’s narrative about the “laptop from hell” is that Joe Biden pressured the Ukrainian government to oust its prosecutor general so as to protect Burisma from legal scrutiny.

The Post purported to substantiate that claim, but in reality did no such thing. The tabloid did uncover an apparent email that Vadym Pozharskyi, an adviser to the board of Burisma, had sent to Hunter Biden in April 2015, wherein Pozharskyi thanked Hunter for “inviting me to D.C. and giving an opportunity to meet your father and spent [sic] some time together.” Given unfettered access to 217 gigabytes of (what was ostensibly) Hunter Biden’s personal data, this was the closest the Post could come to evidence of Joe Biden’s corruption: an email that suggested that one of Hunter’s associates at Burisma had some unspecified form of contact with Joe Biden during a trip to D.C. The message does not indicate that Pozharskyi received a private audience with the vice-president, let alone one in which he got to lobby Biden for Burisma’s interests.

Nevertheless, the Post characterized this as a “smoking-gun email.” It proceeded to assert that after his meeting with Pozharskyi, the “elder Biden pressured government officials in Ukraine into firing a prosecutor who was investigating the company.” This was false.

It is true that, as vice-president, Joe Biden pressured Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko to fire Prosecutor General Viktor Shokin. But Biden did so at the behest of a coalition of Western interests. In addition to the U.S. government, the International Monetary Fund, World Bank, and European Union all believed that Shokin was complicit in endemic corruption that was diverting development funds to oligarchs. And not without reason. Troves of diamonds, cash, and other assorted valuables were discovered at the homes of Shokin’s underlings, indicating that they had been taking bribes. Yet the Ukrainian prosecutor’s office declined to take the officials to court; individual prosecutors who tried to pursue the case were fired or resigned.

In truth, Shokin was not fired for investigating Burisma but for the opposite; one of the West’s complaints about his office was that it failed to pursue a corruption inquiry against Burisma founder Mykola Zlochevsky.

The Post claimed otherwise solely on the basis of statements that Shokin made after losing his job. Beyond the fact that Shokin is an unreliable narrator with a clear motive to disparage Joe Biden, even Shokin’s remarks themselves did not actually support the tabloid’s claims: While the Post reported that Shokin “was investigating” Burisma at the time he was fired, Shokin only claims that he had made “specific plans” to investigate the company. Conveniently, whereas an active investigation could be affirmed or falsified by a paper trail, it is impossible to disprove what Shokin did or did not “plan” to do.

All of which is to say: On its face, the New York Post story was dishonest and misleading.

And at the time of its publication, it was far from clear that the story could be taken at face value. On its way from Hunter Biden’s custody to the New York Post’s, Biden’s data passed through several different hands, including those of President Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani, who had been on a crusade to generate incriminating information about the Bidens’ relationship with Burisma. Anyone in that chain of custody could have added files to the laptop. The primary author of the Post’s story refused to put his name on it out of concern that the tabloid had failed to confirm the veracity of the documents in question.

Subsequently, forensic analysts would confirm the authenticity of some of Hunter Biden’s documents, while concluding that much of the data lacked the cryptographic signatures necessary for verification.

In the summer of 2020, federal law enforcement had told Twitter executives to be on guard against possible foreign hacks aimed at influencing the U.S. presidential election. These concerns were, of course, informed by the fact that Russian agents had hacked Democratic Party emails in 2016 as part of a political interference campaign.

In this context, the Post’s Hunter Biden story raised red flags with Twitter’s content-moderation team. After all, that story consisted of ill-gotten emails fed to the Post by Donald Trump’s lawyer, who’d spent months consorting with Trump sympathizers in Eastern Europe. The platform responded by taking the extraordinary step of suppressing the story on its platform, marking it as unsafe and even preventing Twitter users from sharing it via direct message.

In “The Twitter Files, Part One: How and Why Twitter Blocked the Hunter Biden Laptop Story,” Matt Taibbi sheds light on Twitter’s internal deliberations over this decision. Taibbi frames his findings as a demonstration of Twitter’s bias in favor of Democrats. But his reporting does little to support that claim.

In company email exchanges obtained by Taibbi, Twitter safety chief Yoel Roth and Deputy General Counsel Jim Baker explained that they had chosen to mark tweets linking to the Post story as “unsafe” on the grounds that such tweets disseminated “hacked materials,” a violation of Twitter’s terms of service. Both Roth and Baker acknowledged that they did not actually know that the Post’s piece was based on hacked materials. “Given the SEVERE risks here and lessons of 2016,” however, Roth explained, “we’re erring on the side of including a warning and preventing the content from being amplified.”

In the version of pre-Musk Twitter conjured by conservative rhetoric, one would expect universal assent to this judgment, if not, replies reading, “Yes! This is an excellent pretext for a coup against the bad orange man!” But Taibbi’s documents actually reveal internal skepticism of the decision, and expressions of ambivalence even from those who endorsed it. Taibbi quotes an anonymous former employee as saying, “Hacking was the excuse, but within a few hours, pretty much everyone realized that wasn’t going to hold. But no one had the guts to reverse it.” This makes it sound as though Roth’s avowed concerns about hacking were just a fig leaf for suppressing a story inconvenient for Democrats.

Yet despite having access to virtually all of Twitter’s internal communications, Taibbi produced no actual evidence that the decision was motivated by anything beyond concern that Twitter would find itself complicit in promulgating hacked materials.

The closest thing Taibbi has to evidence of untoward partisan influence is an email from the Biden campaign flagging several Hunter-related tweets for Twitter’s content moderators, who then “handled” them. But all of these tweets appeared to feature nude photos of Hunter Biden that were non-consensually shared, an unambiguous violation of Twitter’s terms of service. Taibbi, for his part, chose not to provide his readers with that context. The reporter did however acknowledge that there was nothing unusual about the Biden team’s outreach, and that the Trump White House also routinely sent Twitter content moderation complaints.

Regardless, Twitter recognized that it had overreached and ceased blocking links to the New York Post story after only one day. By suppressing it for such a short period of time, while generating a giant media controversy about the story, it is plausible that Twitter’s decision-making actually increased the Post article’s reach.

In sum: The New York Post published a story based on data that was apparently — but, at the time, unverifiably — Hunter Biden’s. That story falsely purported to offer “smoking gun” evidence of Joe Biden’s corruption, when it actually provided no such thing. Faced with warnings from federal law enforcement about impending foreign hacks, and a story based on apparently stolen emails sourced from Rudy Giuliani, Twitter’s content moderation team chose to suppress the Post article. That decision was internally controversial, and even those who supported it said that they wished they had more information about the source of the emails. Within 24 hours, Twitter reversed course. It is possible that this reduced the ultimate reach of the Post’s story, which, given that story’s mendacious content, probably would have been beneficial to public understanding of the Trump-Biden race (after all, there was exponentially more evidence that Donald Trump had used public power to advance his family’s private business interests than evidence that Biden had done so, yet the Post’s story conveyed the opposite impression). But it’s also possible that Twitter’s decision actually increased the story’s prominence by endowing it with an aura of forbidden knowledge. Separately, when the Biden campaign flagged tweets that featured pornographic images, Twitter responded by enforcing its own rules. ....
Get a grip.

Nice ad hominem on Schellenberger. But is he wrong here?

No.

Get your panties out of a bunch. That you had to look so hard and far to refute by use of a review of a book on another subject, and haven’t refuted the factual statements of the article… well…

Have a tequila. And understand… Your view isn’t factual; it’s biased.

For the record, I totally agree that Trump lobbied Twitter as well. Weiss makes a huge point of that in her articles. Damned both-sider!

Tyrone Slothrop 09-15-2023 09:18 PM

nothing we haven't heard before
 
Fuck cancer. That is all.

Hank Chinaski 09-15-2023 09:25 PM

Re: nothing we haven't heard before
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533998)
Fuck cancer. That is all.

2. Generically or some reason in particular?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-16-2023 02:03 AM

Re: nothing we haven't heard before
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533998)
Fuck cancer. That is all.

Fuck cancer^3.

Whatever you are dealing with, let me know if I can help, and wishing you strength.

Icky Thump 09-16-2023 06:19 AM

Re: nothing we haven't heard before
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533998)
Fuck cancer. That is all.

Fuck it hard.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-16-2023 09:59 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 533997)
Nice ad hominem on Schellenberger. But is he wrong here?

Wrong about what? Like I asked you, pick the single most damning fact that's actually in that article.

If you insist on sharing non-credible sources like the Daily Mail and Shellenberger, whose name is spelled without a c and whose stuff I have read, I will point out that you are sharing lousy sources.

But you'll notice that I also posted a long piece explaining why he and the others were wrong about the Twitter files.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-16-2023 10:00 PM

Re: nothing we haven't heard before
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 533999)
2. Generically or some reason in particular?

Just found out that a close friend from college is in hospice.

Hank Chinaski 09-16-2023 11:30 PM

Re: nothing we haven't heard before
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 534003)
Just found out that a close friend from college is in hospice.

Sorry.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-17-2023 02:28 PM

Re: nothing we haven't heard before
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 534003)
Just found out that a close friend from college is in hospice.

Wishing them the best possible. May they be surrounded by loved ones at the end.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-18-2023 01:03 AM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 534002)
Wrong about what? Like I asked you, pick the single most damning fact that's actually in that article.

If you insist on sharing non-credible sources like the Daily Mail and Shellenberger, whose name is spelled without a c and whose stuff I have read, I will point out that you are sharing lousy sources.

But you'll notice that I also posted a long piece explaining why he and the others were wrong about the Twitter files.

More globally: https://www.cjr.org/special_report/t...ent-part-1.php

If you read this thread at all honestly, Yoel Roth of Twitter is telling Baker the Post’s story does not violate guidelines. In the face of this, Baker holds, tenuously, to the proposition, “We don’t know… it might be hacked.” https://twitter.com/mtaibbi

You’ve dealt with media. As have most of us here. Lying to media is easy if it’s not securities stuff. Who cares? No duty is owed. That’s where Baker came down on this: Plausible deniability. That’s all one needs.

It was the smart play for him. But not necessarily the smart play for Twitter? So it must be asked… Who was he really serving? Not Roth, who disagreed.

ETA: The Post’s Twitter page was blocked for 16 days, not one.

And… Please show me Twitter’s banning of links to the NYTines’ story about the stolen portion of Trump’s tax returns. Link please.

Look, you can’t win this. Just fucking let it go with this understanding: There is a rule, and I get it it, among many “gatekeepers” that any and all means must be employed to stop Trump and his brand of authoritarian populism. Ends justify means.

I get it. We all get it. But stop pretending there’s not a double standard. People hate that bullshit. They’d be more receptive to the truth: “Yeah. We in media love him as a carnival act for ratings and clicks. But we are allowed to do Whatever It Takes after we’ve made our money to try to stop him from ever acquiring power again.” That’s at least economically defensible.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 09-18-2023 01:34 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy (Post 533928)
Thanks.

You all should know you're part of the support network that makes it happen. A big piece of fighting this stuff is staying engaged and vital, and frankly while I joke about it getting called out on spelling goofs caring about that stuff and mixing it up over trump or bush or whatever is part of staying vital. So thanks for giving me shit.

We're all glad you're not a coward like this guy:

https://www.theonion.com/loved-ones-...nce-1819565052

Did you just call me Coltrane? 09-18-2023 01:35 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533946)
He's a narcissist, but I don't think most people would say that's a mental problem.

I think he's off his fucking rocker.

Adder 09-18-2023 04:00 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 534002)
Wrong about what? Like I asked you, pick the single most damning fact that's actually in that article.

If you insist on sharing non-credible sources like the Daily Mail and Shellenberger, whose name is spelled without a c and whose stuff I have read, I will point out that you are sharing lousy sources.

But you'll notice that I also posted a long piece explaining why he and the others were wrong about the Twitter files.

Remember when he cited Cernovich? Good times.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-18-2023 04:37 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Adder (Post 534009)
Remember when he cited Cernovich? Good times.

I didn't know who he was. But I do know what the Columbia Journalism Review is. Read that report and argue with it.

By the way, given your views on China's idiotic handling of Covid, which were shit upon here by many people (and have put that country's economy in the shitter), shouldn't everything you offer include a disclaimer?

Author's reasoning may be deemed suspect by most.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-18-2023 04:48 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Did you just call me Coltrane? (Post 534008)
I think he's off his fucking rocker.

I've been acquainted with (not friends) a number of people who've been close to him. Nearly every one of them is also more than arguably nuts. He's a hurricane of lunacy who attracts the most demented misfits imaginable. Try to think of a room full of G. Gordon Liddys. Deeply weird people. One of his besties grew up down the street from me... Totally cuckoo pants. Three dollar bill, and an irredeemable pervert. Lots of well heeled gun nuts in the mix, too.

Establishment Rs who've butted heads with his people walk away disturbed. Not because he's a scary would-be Mussolini... Because neither he nor anyone around him has any judgment, long term planning skills, or a clue wtf they're doing!

Tyrone Slothrop 09-18-2023 07:19 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 533996)
Did both you guys get laid off or retire or something?

Or something, yes.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-18-2023 07:22 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 534006)
More globally: https://www.cjr.org/special_report/t...ent-part-1.php

If you read this thread at all honestly, Yoel Roth of Twitter is telling Baker the Post’s story does not violate guidelines. In the face of this, Baker holds, tenuously, to the proposition, “We don’t know… it might be hacked.” https://twitter.com/mtaibbi

You’ve dealt with media. As have most of us here. Lying to media is easy if it’s not securities stuff. Who cares? No duty is owed. That’s where Baker came down on this: Plausible deniability. That’s all one needs.

It was the smart play for him. But not necessarily the smart play for Twitter? So it must be asked… Who was he really serving? Not Roth, who disagreed.

How It Started. You started out with the proposition that we are facing authoritarianism on the right and left.
How It's Going. You say a former in-house lawyer at Twitter, a guy previously at the FBI, made a bad decision.

As I said previously, content moderation at Twitter was a thankless and lousy job. Occam's Razor gives you all sorts of ways to explain why they got stuff wrong without resorting to conspiracy theories about ex-FBI agents taking over Twitter from the inside.

Quote:

ETA: The Post’s Twitter page was blocked for 16 days, not one.
OK, whatevs. You still managed to find out about it, a point you keep trying to avoid.

Quote:

And… Please show me Twitter’s banning of links to the NYTines’ story about the stolen portion of Trump’s tax returns. Link please.
Please refer to what I said above about administering Twitter's moderation policies.

Quote:

Look, you can’t win this. Just fucking let it go with this understanding: There is a rule, and I get it it, among many “gatekeepers” that any and all means must be employed to stop Trump and his brand of authoritarian populism. Ends justify means.
I have already won. It's like you're arguing that no one can win the Indy 500 because one of the leaders has a hydraulic problem. Um, OK, but there are many, many other cars in that race. You may not like Twitter's former editorial direction (join the club, it's a big one), but it is one of many, many, many media outlets.

It's the height of obliviousness for you to argue that media gatekeepers are trying to stop Trump this week, with NBC just having given him a chance to lie, uncorrected, on Meet The Press. NBC acknowledges he lied lots, but it and Kristen Welker couldn't respond live, so the damage is done. If Biden did a fraction of that lying, there'd be a shitstorm, but the media do not know how to respond to Trump's brazen, constant lying, and they love the traffic the draws.

Quote:

But stop pretending there’s not a double standard.
Read harder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 533991)
Are there double standards? Sure. (For example, if Joe Biden said crazy things that Trump says all the time, the media would completely flip out, and rightly so. Trump says them and it's not news.) Does that mean the left is authoritarian? No.

Quote:

People...’d be more receptive to the truth: “Yeah. We in media love him as a carnival act for ratings and clicks. But we are allowed to do Whatever It Takes after we’ve made our money to try to stop him from ever acquiring power again.” That’s at least economically defensible.
Do you really think major media are run by some sort of conspiracy? I sure hope not.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-19-2023 12:37 AM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 534013)

Do you really think major media are run by some sort of conspiracy? I sure hope not.

I’ll tackle the rest later. But this low hanging fruit has to be picked before pungency.

From Gore Vidal to George Carlin, to many others, the retort to your allegation one making my point is trafficking in conspiracy theorizing is:

I’m not. And one needn’t do so, as there are no conspiracies. Like actors act alike and complement each other.

In simple terms, it works in an appallingly simple fashion. A few thousand people who took too much poli-sci, had parents with enough enough bucks that they could pursue journalism, and lacked enough common sense to realize their progressive professors were charlatans, filter into the media ecosystem. They all think alike, speak alike, and reinforce each others’ unlettered understanding of how things work and ought to work. The entirety of academia is polluted with these losers who’ve never made a payroll and believe they know, and ought to profess to others, how everything should work.

They’re idiots, and they spawn idiocy in their wake, filling institutions with people who’ve never been required to meet metrics but think their sheltered views acquired in education and media confer a higher form of knowledge.

It happens on the right as well. But not as effectively or anywhere near as often as it does on the left.

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s collective self-reinforcing ignorance of the actual. An “ism.”

But people like tribes. They want to belong. Progs to the left, MAGA to the right, stuck in the middle with who? Not you.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-19-2023 04:29 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 534014)
I’ll tackle the rest later. But this low hanging fruit has to be picked before pungency.

From Gore Vidal to George Carlin, to many others, the retort to your allegation one making my point is trafficking in conspiracy theorizing is:

I’m not. And one needn’t do so, as there are no conspiracies. Like actors act alike and complement each other.

In simple terms, it works in an appallingly simple fashion. A few thousand people who took too much poli-sci, had parents with enough enough bucks that they could pursue journalism, and lacked enough common sense to realize their progressive professors were charlatans, filter into the media ecosystem. They all think alike, speak alike, and reinforce each others’ unlettered understanding of how things work and ought to work. The entirety of academia is polluted with these losers who’ve never made a payroll and believe they know, and ought to profess to others, how everything should work.

They’re idiots, and they spawn idiocy in their wake, filling institutions with people who’ve never been required to meet metrics but think their sheltered views acquired in education and media confer a higher form of knowledge.

It happens on the right as well. But not as effectively or anywhere near as often as it does on the left.

It’s not a conspiracy. It’s collective self-reinforcing ignorance of the actual. An “ism.”

But people like tribes. They want to belong. Progs to the left, MAGA to the right, stuck in the middle with who? Not you.

If you want to have a conversation about the ways in which the media is warped, I'm down. You're complaining about the way the world was fifty years ago, when there weren't many newspapers or TV stations in most places. That world is long gone, and media is a competitive business, with a very immediate grasp of how many viewers or readers each story gets. The idea that media is full of people who haven't been required to meet metrics, is laughably wrong, and dates you like a dinosaur.

Your model of media bias completely misses the interests of ownership and management and their role in shaping coverage, as if the people who run media conglomerates just hand over the keys to the shop to lefty Ivy graduates. CNN took a big lurch away from the left because Christ Licht answered to libertarian billionaire John Malone. I would wager that you don't notice things like this because they don't irritate you.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-19-2023 05:10 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

If you want to have a conversation about the ways in which the media is warped, I'm down. You're complaining about the way the world was fifty years ago, when there weren't many newspapers or TV stations in most places. That world is long gone, and media is a competitive business, with a very immediate grasp of how many viewers or readers each story gets. The idea that media is full of people who haven't been required to meet metrics, is laughably wrong, and dates you like a dinosaur.
I fully understand why you'd take that position. It does seem nuts. But you underestimate two things:

1. The strength of the ideological bent among those entering media (can't really call it journalism anymore);
2. The pervasiveness of the low risk economic model I'll call "serving the silo."

Regarding 1, media, particularly legacy media, is and always will be an industry the yeoman of which are idealistic. It's creative, and it attracts people who are either ego or ideals driven to have their voices heard and make a difference. The kids who just want the filthy lucre go into finance. The recent upheaval in the industry with the advent of social media and the internet isn't undoing that mindset.

Regarding 2, Roger Ailes proved at Fox that it is better to create a silo and grow it than serve unbiased news to a broader audience. While CNN struggles trying to stay in the middle, Fox and MSNBC have devoted cults of viewers behind them. It's simply lower risk/higher dependable revenue to find a rabid audience and feed it what it wants to hear than offer contradictory choices. Fox owns the conservative audience, so there isn't much inroad to be made on that side. This is why MSNBC moved hard left rather than take on CNN. In doing so, it grabbed and now owns the progressive audience. CNN is stuck with a weird audience of people like me (I still like it and think it's the most honest).

Quote:

Your model of media bias completely misses the interests of ownership and management and their role in shaping coverage, as if the people who run media conglomerates just hand over the keys to the shop to lefty Ivy graduates.
They can't help but hand the keys over to that crowd because that's the only crowd that can afford to get into media. Legacy media is a shrinking pie and the pay gets smaller every day.

Quote:

CNN took a big lurch away from the left because Christ Licht answered to libertarian billionaire John Malone. I would wager that you don't notice things like this because they don't irritate you.
Licht proves my point better than almost any example. He tried to eliminate the lefties of the network and ran into severe opposition. They simply would not have a libertarian at the helm, and they threw a hissy fit over it until he was canned.

He also should not have done the Trump town hall as he did. Giving Trump a platform is fine. He's a Presidential candidate. But giving him a series of softball questions as they did, which was a naked attempt at the "get ratings from Trump, then kneecap him later" strategy so often employed was unwise. The man does not deserve fawning of any kind. And that was commercial crassness at its worst.

Hank Chinaski 09-19-2023 06:00 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
FMK

Boebert
Palin
Melania

Hank Chinaski 09-19-2023 07:08 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 534017)
FMK

Boebert
Palin
Melania

Spoiler








K Melania. I ain’t putting my dick anywhere near where his has been.

Palin is getting old but I think she is less nuts than the B so I’d marry her and F Boebert.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-20-2023 04:36 PM

‘il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres’
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 534016)
I fully understand why you'd take that position. It does seem nuts. But you underestimate two things:

1. The strength of the ideological bent among those entering media (can't really call it journalism anymore);
2. The pervasiveness of the low risk economic model I'll call "serving the silo."

Regarding 1, media, particularly legacy media, is and always will be an industry the yeoman of which are idealistic. It's creative, and it attracts people who are either ego or ideals driven to have their voices heard and make a difference. The kids who just want the filthy lucre go into finance. The recent upheaval in the industry with the advent of social media and the internet isn't undoing that mindset.

Regarding 2, Roger Ailes proved at Fox that it is better to create a silo and grow it than serve unbiased news to a broader audience. While CNN struggles trying to stay in the middle, Fox and MSNBC have devoted cults of viewers behind them. It's simply lower risk/higher dependable revenue to find a rabid audience and feed it what it wants to hear than offer contradictory choices. Fox owns the conservative audience, so there isn't much inroad to be made on that side. This is why MSNBC moved hard left rather than take on CNN. In doing so, it grabbed and now owns the progressive audience. CNN is stuck with a weird audience of people like me (I still like it and think it's the most honest).



They can't help but hand the keys over to that crowd because that's the only crowd that can afford to get into media. Legacy media is a shrinking pie and the pay gets smaller every day.



Licht proves my point better than almost any example. He tried to eliminate the lefties of the network and ran into severe opposition. They simply would not have a libertarian at the helm, and they threw a hissy fit over it until he was canned.

He also should not have done the Trump town hall as he did. Giving Trump a platform is fine. He's a Presidential candidate. But giving him a series of softball questions as they did, which was a naked attempt at the "get ratings from Trump, then kneecap him later" strategy so often employed was unwise. The man does not deserve fawning of any kind. And that was commercial crassness at its worst.

I think your description of who gets hired into media companies is wrong. But even if it were right, it fails to account for the fact that the entry-level inmates are not running the asylum, though much of what you say above tacitly acknowledges that. For example, your point about "silos" shows the media coverage is shaped by the way that different outlets make business decisions about how to position themselves. Back in the day, when the means of publication (printing presses, television licenses) were expensive, there were few outlets and they generally tried to serve mass markets. The means of production have gotten much cheaper, outlets have proliferated, and many of them compete by targeting categories of consumers. Fox and MSNBC have done that, and so did CNN under Licht. All of this means there are a variety of media outlets doing different things, not a hegemony with one voice dictated by progressive hires from schools you don't like.

Licht's tenure at CNN illustrates this. He got the job because a rich libertarian billionaire bought CNN and wanted CNN to broadcast stuff that better fit his rich libertarian views. (This is a poor market move, in that rich libertarians are a vanishingly small share of the market for views, but a common move by media companies, which are often bought by rich people.) Licht fired a bunch of people with left-of-center views, which of course served pour encourager les autres, and CNN's coverage has noticeably changed. You completely ignore the facts that people got fired and coverage changed, which completely disproves your point. Licht got canned not because anyone was throwing a "hissy fit," but because he didn't know what he was doing and it wasn't working. This article in The Atlantic is the definitive account.
When he took the helm of CNN, in May 2022, Licht had promised a reset with Republican voters—and with their leader. He had swaggered into the job, telling his employees that the network had lost its way under former President Jeff Zucker, that their hostile approach to Trump had alienated a broader viewership that craved sober, fact-driven coverage. These assertions thrust Licht into a two-front war: fighting to win back Republicans who had written off the network while also fighting to win over his own journalists, many of whom believed that their new boss was scapegoating them to appease his new boss, David Zaslav, who’d hired Licht with a decree to move CNN toward the ideological center.

One year into the job, Licht was losing both battles. Ratings, in decline since Trump left office, had dropped to new lows. Employee morale was even worse. A feeling of dread saturated the company. Licht had accepted the position with ambitions to rehabilitate the entire news industry, telling his peers that Trump had broken the mainstream media and that his goal was to do nothing less than “save journalism.” But Licht had lost the confidence of his own newsroom. Because of this, he had come to view the prime-time event with Trump as the moment that would vindicate his pursuit of Republican viewers while proving to his employees that he possessed a revolutionary vision for their network and the broader news media.
You seem think that if CNN's ratings had been up, Licht would have been fired anyway. I guess you can believe that if you want to, but that's not how the world works.

Icky Thump 09-21-2023 01:47 PM

She can always run for Congress or president
 
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...ced50573&ei=19

Tyrone Slothrop 09-21-2023 01:57 PM

Re: She can always run for Congress or president
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 534020)

Now do Feinstein.

Icky Thump 09-21-2023 02:09 PM

Re: She can always run for Congress or president
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 534021)
Now do Feinstein.

Ahh yes, appoint her to the federal bench.

Hank Chinaski 09-21-2023 08:00 PM

Re: She can always run for Congress or president
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 534020)

Back in the 90s she was on a panel where I argued. She was a good judge. And it was hard to tell because of the robe, but I think she had nice tits, not Boebert nice, but still.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-21-2023 10:55 PM

Re: She can always run for Congress or president
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 534023)
Back in the 90s she was on a panel where I argued. She was a good judge. And it was hard to tell because of the robe, but I think she had nice tits, not Boebert nice, but still.

Not a fan of the silicone, though.

Hank Chinaski 09-21-2023 11:18 PM

Re: She can always run for Congress or president
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 534024)
Not a fan of the silicone, though.

Pauline Newman has inplants?

Icky Thump 09-22-2023 07:24 AM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
In other news, Icky’s firm had a department that does most of the legal writing. They won’t work for icky because they know icky writes his own and will brief and argue things that aren’t slam dunks.

They got faceplanted on a few Daubert-ish decisions. Icky went 4-0. Icky circulated the decisions because it’s good to resurrect favorable law.

Don’t you think they threw shade?

Hank Chinaski 09-24-2023 05:56 PM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Icky Thump (Post 534026)
In other news, Icky’s firm had a department that does most of the legal writing. They won’t work for icky because they know icky writes his own and will brief and argue things that aren’t slam dunks.

They got faceplanted on a few Daubert-ish decisions. Icky went 4-0. Icky circulated the decisions because it’s good to resurrect favorable law.

Don’t you think they threw shade?

How? That’s some bad facts for them to hit you?

sebastian_dangerfield 09-25-2023 07:19 PM

Re: ‘il est bon de tuer de temps en temps un amiral pour encourager les autres’
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 534019)
I think your description of who gets hired into media companies is wrong. But even if it were right, it fails to account for the fact that the entry-level inmates are not running the asylum, though much of what you say above tacitly acknowledges that. For example, your point about "silos" shows the media coverage is shaped by the way that different outlets make business decisions about how to position themselves. Back in the day, when the means of publication (printing presses, television licenses) were expensive, there were few outlets and they generally tried to serve mass markets. The means of production have gotten much cheaper, outlets have proliferated, and many of them compete by targeting categories of consumers. Fox and MSNBC have done that, and so did CNN under Licht. All of this means there are a variety of media outlets doing different things, not a hegemony with one voice dictated by progressive hires from schools you don't like.

Licht's tenure at CNN illustrates this. He got the job because a rich libertarian billionaire bought CNN and wanted CNN to broadcast stuff that better fit his rich libertarian views. (This is a poor market move, in that rich libertarians are a vanishingly small share of the market for views, but a common move by media companies, which are often bought by rich people.) Licht fired a bunch of people with left-of-center views, which of course served pour encourager les autres, and CNN's coverage has noticeably changed. You completely ignore the facts that people got fired and coverage changed, which completely disproves your point. Licht got canned not because anyone was throwing a "hissy fit," but because he didn't know what he was doing and it wasn't working. This article in The Atlantic is the definitive account.
When he took the helm of CNN, in May 2022, Licht had promised a reset with Republican voters—and with their leader. He had swaggered into the job, telling his employees that the network had lost its way under former President Jeff Zucker, that their hostile approach to Trump had alienated a broader viewership that craved sober, fact-driven coverage. These assertions thrust Licht into a two-front war: fighting to win back Republicans who had written off the network while also fighting to win over his own journalists, many of whom believed that their new boss was scapegoating them to appease his new boss, David Zaslav, who’d hired Licht with a decree to move CNN toward the ideological center.

One year into the job, Licht was losing both battles. Ratings, in decline since Trump left office, had dropped to new lows. Employee morale was even worse. A feeling of dread saturated the company. Licht had accepted the position with ambitions to rehabilitate the entire news industry, telling his peers that Trump had broken the mainstream media and that his goal was to do nothing less than “save journalism.” But Licht had lost the confidence of his own newsroom. Because of this, he had come to view the prime-time event with Trump as the moment that would vindicate his pursuit of Republican viewers while proving to his employees that he possessed a revolutionary vision for their network and the broader news media.
You seem think that if CNN's ratings had been up, Licht would have been fired anyway. I guess you can believe that if you want to, but that's not how the world works.

It appears that if ratings, rather than upsetting the culture of the network, were the primary basis for his firing, it was a rather curious termination:

“CNN's controversial town hall with former President Donald Trump drew 3.3 million viewers Wednesday night, making CNN the most-watched cable news network of the evening, according to final ratings from Nielsen. Why it matters: The event delivered a much-needed ratings boost for CNN, though at a cost.”

https://www.axios.com/2023/05/11/cnn...ll-tv-ratings#

Tyrone Slothrop 09-26-2023 01:51 AM

of course not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 534028)
It appears that if ratings, rather than upsetting the culture of the network, were the primary basis for his firing, it was a rather curious termination:

“CNN's controversial town hall with former President Donald Trump drew 3.3 million viewers Wednesday night, making CNN the most-watched cable news network of the evening, according to final ratings from Nielsen. Why it matters: The event delivered a much-needed ratings boost for CNN, though at a cost.”

https://www.axios.com/2023/05/11/cnn...ll-tv-ratings#

If you owned CNN and wanted to see how it was doing it the ratings, would you look only at the night that Trump was on?

Icky Thump 09-26-2023 10:26 AM

Re: Implanting Bill Gates's Micro-chips In Brains For Over 20 Years!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski (Post 534027)
How? That’s some bad facts for them to hit you?

Weird like "It's good to see good facts" but the three expert reports weren't mentioned by this team though the Court went on for pages about how they satisfied our then-shifted burden.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-26-2023 02:49 PM

Re: of course not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyrone Slothrop (Post 534029)
If you owned CNN and wanted to see how it was doing it the ratings, would you look only at the night that Trump was on?

No, but if solely or almost entirely focused on ratings, I would look at that night as an example of what I should do more often.

The argument the public doesn't like libertarian news of a variety John Malone and Zaslav ostensibly wanted at CNN is correct, but that observation is misplaced in any analysis of why Licht failed.

Licht never sought to offer libertarian news, and for good reason. Nobody would want to see that. The majority of viewing audiences who'll tune in to cable news regularly are siloed. They want a slant, and libertarian views frustrate these sorts of people more than do their respective opponents. If one seeks the binary (My Tribe vs. Other), he doesn't want to hear news from a perspective critical of that black and white thinking. His opponent at least reinforces the view that there's a battle for the culture/country/whatever comprised of two warring camps. Those who question the legitimacy of that game challenge his entire view of how the world operates.

I think the clear takeaway from the postmortems on Licht is that he sullied the brand and misused Trump. Like it or not, for some reason, Trump remains compelling, getting more eyeballs than anybody else in the race (and arguably on the planet). Zucker played this for ratings by going to war with Trump. This acquired both ratings and gravitas. The yeomen in the trenches at CNN knew they were enabling and platforming a nutball for ratings, but they could abide it on the basis they were against him. Licht platformed Trump in a manner less confrontational and in parts positive (audience stacked with Trump friendly sorts). This risked reputational damage and angered the foot soldiers of the network who are almost entirely anti-Trump.

Licht's problem isn't that he wasn't going to make money for CNN. Trump's ratings show he was on to something. The problem was the culture of the place is incompatible with that level of cynical ratings-chasing. The other problem is that because of his unique nature, one cannot be agnostic on Trump. His attraction is the extreme polarization he creates, without which he wouldn't have succeeded as he has in politics. People like us can separate a man from his policies and look at the pluses and minuses (Immigration: Disaster; Tariffs: Stupid and Counterproductive; Expansion of Standard Deduction: Huge Help to the Working Class Renter Segment of Society, etc.). The average audience member cannot do this and does not want to do this. They are for him or against him and that's that. Licht tried to cover Trump as a normal candidate, and that Just Does Not Work.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-27-2023 04:00 PM

Re: of course not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 534031)
No, but if solely or almost entirely focused on ratings, I would look at that night as an example of what I should do more often.

The argument the public doesn't like libertarian news of a variety John Malone and Zaslav ostensibly wanted at CNN is correct, but that observation is misplaced in any analysis of why Licht failed.

Licht never sought to offer libertarian news, and for good reason. Nobody would want to see that. The majority of viewing audiences who'll tune in to cable news regularly are siloed. They want a slant, and libertarian views frustrate these sorts of people more than do their respective opponents. If one seeks the binary (My Tribe vs. Other), he doesn't want to hear news from a perspective critical of that black and white thinking. His opponent at least reinforces the view that there's a battle for the culture/country/whatever comprised of two warring camps. Those who question the legitimacy of that game challenge his entire view of how the world operates.

I think the clear takeaway from the postmortems on Licht is that he sullied the brand and misused Trump. Like it or not, for some reason, Trump remains compelling, getting more eyeballs than anybody else in the race (and arguably on the planet). Zucker played this for ratings by going to war with Trump. This acquired both ratings and gravitas. The yeomen in the trenches at CNN knew they were enabling and platforming a nutball for ratings, but they could abide it on the basis they were against him. Licht platformed Trump in a manner less confrontational and in parts positive (audience stacked with Trump friendly sorts). This risked reputational damage and angered the foot soldiers of the network who are almost entirely anti-Trump.

Licht's problem isn't that he wasn't going to make money for CNN. Trump's ratings show he was on to something. The problem was the culture of the place is incompatible with that level of cynical ratings-chasing. The other problem is that because of his unique nature, one cannot be agnostic on Trump. His attraction is the extreme polarization he creates, without which he wouldn't have succeeded as he has in politics. People like us can separate a man from his policies and look at the pluses and minuses (Immigration: Disaster; Tariffs: Stupid and Counterproductive; Expansion of Standard Deduction: Huge Help to the Working Class Renter Segment of Society, etc.). The average audience member cannot do this and does not want to do this. They are for him or against him and that's that. Licht tried to cover Trump as a normal candidate, and that Just Does Not Work.

If you are going to write a long post about why Licht failed, you owe it to yourself and any reader to first read the article in The Atlantic that got him fired.

Notwithstanding that, you now accept that Licht got fired because his programming strategies did not work. Not that this contradicts your earlier theories about how he got fired because of lib employee whining, or that the mainstream media oppressively and hegemonically covers the news in an effort to defeat populism. So I'm glad you have moved on from that nonsense.

I would put the last thing you said differently. There is a large core of conservatives who want the news delivered from a conservative slant. They watch FOX News, which knows (we know from the Dominion case) that it has to tell them what they want to hear even when it's nonsense, because otherwise they may go somewhere else like OAN or Tucker's Twitterfest. There is a small core of lefties who want something like FOX News for lefties. This market is much smaller and has not been able to sustain anything like FOX News on the left -- witness the failure of Air America, or the many obvious differences between FOX News and MSNBC, which has some programming for these folks. And then there is a mainstream crowd, that wants the news, relatively straight. These people are not as engaged as the FOX listeners, and they are more likely to watch CNN when something like a hurricane or an impeachment or a war is happening.

Licht said, essentially, let's try to pick up more of an audience by trying to speak to moderate Republicans more. The problem is, that isn't an audience. He was either trying to get people to switch from FOX News, or to get people who aren't his audience more engaged. The FOX News viewers aren't going to switch to CNN, and there isn't an untapped crowd of libertarians or moderate Republicans out there. The failure here was to assume that there was a potential audience with views that more matched CNN's new billionaire owner. It is common for billionaires to make this sort of mistake, for obvious reasons. There is some pathos in watching a guy like Licht, who is not a billionaire, stake and lose his professional reputation trying to please a billionaire boss, but there is even more pathos in watching people below him at CNN lose their jobs because Licht was trying to square a circle, or in watching CNN give a platform for Trump in the process.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-27-2023 06:14 PM

Re: of course not
 
Quote:

If you are going to write a long post about why Licht failed, you owe it to yourself and any reader to first read the article in The Atlantic that got him fired.
I'd read parts of it before you cited it. I reread it after you cited it and found it opaque at best, and broad enough to hold both your reading of why Licht failed and mine.

Quote:

Notwithstanding that, you now accept that Licht got fired because his programming strategies did not work. Not that this contradicts your earlier theories about how he got fired because of lib employee whining, or that the mainstream media oppressively and hegemonically covers the news in an effort to defeat populism. So I'm glad you have moved on from that nonsense.
I'll unpack this a bit. I think Licht got fired for the reason I said he was fired. I think within that were both of the forces we previously cited:

Billionaire wanting moderate R news that doesn't sell; and,
Employees, mostly left, aghast at platforming Trump for ratings

Quote:

I would put the last thing you said differently. There is a large core of conservatives who want the news delivered from a conservative slant. They watch FOX News, which knows (we know from the Dominion case) that it has to tell them what they want to hear even when it's nonsense, because otherwise they may go somewhere else like OAN or Tucker's Twitterfest.
Agreed.

Quote:

There is a small core of lefties who want something like FOX News for lefties. This market is much smaller and has not been able to sustain anything like FOX News on the left -- witness the failure of Air America, or the many obvious differences between FOX News and MSNBC, which has some programming for these folks.
Yes, with a large caveat. It's hard to ascertain how big the audience who wants "comfort" (I'm citing an MSNBC pundit who famously said the network doesn't do news, but offered comfort to people who feared Trump during Trump's term) or a Trump-hate fix really is. The reason is, I think Fox viewers skew old and are still watching lots of TV. Hard core progressives cut the cord and consume from myriad sources. And I don't think you'd argue with me that there are endless sources in legacy and social media from which to obtain hardcore left-leaning programming.

I think Fox may just be the Everest of silos.

Quote:

And then there is a mainstream crowd, that wants the news, relatively straight. These people are not as engaged as the FOX listeners, and they are more likely to watch CNN when something like a hurricane or an impeachment or a war is happening.
Hi! We're not a big bunch, unfortunately.

Quote:

Licht said, essentially, let's try to pick up more of an audience by trying to speak to moderate Republicans more. The problem is, that isn't an audience.
Yup. All 10 may be in the men's lounge at the golf course later this evening. I should take a photo.

Quote:

He was either trying to get people to switch from FOX News, or to get people who aren't his audience more engaged. The FOX News viewers aren't going to switch to CNN, and there isn't an untapped crowd of libertarians or moderate Republicans out there. The failure here was to assume that there was a potential audience with views that more matched CNN's new billionaire owner. It is common for billionaires to make this sort of mistake, for obvious reasons. There is some pathos in watching a guy like Licht, who is not a billionaire, stake and lose his professional reputation trying to please a billionaire boss, but there is even more pathos in watching people below him at CNN lose their jobs because Licht was trying to square a circle, or in watching CNN give a platform for Trump in the process.
Agreed. Malone and Zaslav have been so rich for so long, they have no clue about the tastes of the general public. The real pathos, however, is that the tastes of the general public are in their mouths. There's a bizarre nobility in at least trying to court the middle. It's where sanity once resided, a place where people like Daniel Patrick Moynihan offered bon mots on the difference between fact and opinion, and Tip O'Neill and Reagan cut compromises over a scotch. And this sort of thinking informed the media's coverage of it. Christ... Buckley's Firing Line was more even handed than anything on TV these days.

Licht fucked up with the Trump thing, but if the sole successful course for the network, for any network, is to pick a side and go to war with politicians, as Zucker did with Trump, and Fox does with every D, well... better to just turn out the lights at CNN. It is a decent brand. And in a country with some fucking brains, straddling the middle would give it the best and biggest audience.

Hank Chinaski 10-01-2023 08:28 PM

Re: of course not
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sebastian_dangerfield (Post 534033)
Licht fucked up with the Trump thing, but if the sole successful course for the network, for any network, is to pick a side

You and Ty, I’m going to challenge you this, both of you send me two to three sentences summarizing what you each believe you are arguing about in a private message? Tiresome is not enough to describe what you two are doing. I propose to resolve this very important debate.


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