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-   -   Politics: Where we struggle to kneel in the muck. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630)

baltassoc 10-11-2004 04:45 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Aussies are pretty much just Texans with funny accents and wanderlust,
I don't really see funny accents and wanderlust as a distinction, at least in the view of most Marylanders at the time of a Texan administration.

Maybe Texans who drive on the wrong side of the road?

bilmore 10-11-2004 04:45 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by baltassoc
Maybe Texans who drive on the wrong side of the road?
Ever been to Texas at closing time? Still no distinction.

Sidd Finch 10-11-2004 04:47 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Don't know. Don't get it.

Market forces at work.

bilmore 10-11-2004 04:49 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Market forces at work.
In my defense, they offer almost no nudity. What would be the point?

Say_hello_for_me 10-11-2004 04:50 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Why must you continually try to frame every debate as some sort of suburb vs. urban poor conflict. You've responed to my challenge that most conservatives are phonies hiding an agenda by shooting the messenger. Here's a tip - your technique of reframing/warping the issue so that you can make every debate one about class and race, is transparent. A mongoloid could spot that you're trying to goad everyone into debates where you can take strong moral positions about inequality which make the opponent look like an ogre. You remind me of that line in Holidays in Cambodia where Biafra properly describes upper middle class white self-loathing:
Oh. My. God. Let's ignore class and race here? I spent half of last night arguing that Kerry has never addressed our nation's security! Where were you?

You seem a bit sensitive bout this class and race thing though. Ya ever consider talking to someone 'bout that?


Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield

Stop trying to call me a classist/racist/anti-urbanist. My post had no hint of any of that. At least when I crash and burn, I admit it, instead of trying to morph the subject fifty times. Admit it, man - you're a conservative - you want people to adhere to certain morals, but you just can't stomach saying it because that forces you to give up all intellectual credibility in the argument.

I certainly do not mean to label you or anyone else here as a "racist", at least in the overt sense. And I can admit that I want people to adhere to certain morals. I can admit that. I just don't want the Federal government or an activist judge telling me what those morals are and aren't. I love how you throw out this kind of nonsense too. Why would admitting to morals force someone to give up all intellectual credibility in an argument. The argument is whether the Federal government should be telling us which ones to follow. You say drugs-no, abortion-yes, I say drugs-no, abortion-no, you say I'm a hypocrite because I say drugs-yes, abortion-no. Its an endless stream of senseless misrepresentation and mischaracterization from you. Conservatives-this, you-that. Its like you are daydreaming an argument with an imaginary opponent.
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield

And get rid of your hard on for for arguments about the ghetto. Its sounds contrived from an obviously whitebread Catholic kid from the better side of the tracks.
That is simply not going to happen. I understand that people don't want to hear about it, and I've seen how far people will go to ignore it, but its the height of failure in our society, and the strongest argument a conservative (or really, anyone) has to point out hypocricy in this nation. But like I said, it sounds like you are a bit sensitive to this. You should talk to someone about that.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2004 04:50 PM

Not Onanistic
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
Sez you. I never engage in "self-loathing." As a (Not Italian) Catholic, I follow the rule that every sperm is sacred/every sperm is great/when a sperm is wasted/God gets quite irate.
I think the bible refers to jacking off as "spilling one's seed." But you raise an interesting point. Sperm can swin and are part of the very building blocks of life. I guess by extension women commit murder monthly and men commit... fuck, I am seriously going to hell.

sgtclub 10-11-2004 04:52 PM

Perry's Off Shore Investments
 
The Boston Globe is reporting that Kerry has some off shore investments from the mid-80s I think. I'm not sure why this is relevant, but . . .

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/p.../day5/tax1.htm

Secret_Agent_Man 10-11-2004 04:53 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
(Italy's voters chose a Kerry-clone. NYT front page. Germany's voters reject the Kerry-clone. Very small blurb. Chirac's bribery stories. Not so much. Ink problem in Afghanistan. Big news. )
You have managed to simultaneously offend Silvio Berlusconi (Mr. President, it sounds like it is spelled) and John Kerry. Congratulations.

S_A_M

Replaced_Texan 10-11-2004 04:55 PM

Editorials
 
Kuffman is collecting anti-DeLay editorials here.

bilmore 10-11-2004 04:57 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
You have managed to simultaneously offend Silvio Berlusconi (Mr. President, it sounds like it is spelled) and John Kerry. Congratulations.
You say this like they're bad things.

(I offended a man who allegedly bribes the hell out of the system, and then passes a wildly unpopular law, just now annulled, granting himself immunity? I think he has thicker skin than you credit.)

Secret_Agent_Man 10-11-2004 04:59 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
In a temporary defense of the media, the LA Times does have a very nice article today about how happy the Afghans are with the elections. I saw a few yesterday too, including one surprising quote somewhere-or-other about the opposition candidate's complaints being laughed out of Kandahar of all places.
The WaPo ran large front-page articles about: (A) the AFGHAN (JFC Club, please learn to spell the word) elections on voting day, (B) the ink controversy, and (C) the apparent happy resolution. Good Morning America had Hamid Karzai on today.

Y'all can stop blowing the "liberal media" horn wrt coverage of foreign elections. No one wrote about Howard's victory because almost no one in America cares who wins in Australia. After all, it is not the job of the news media to MAKE the story, is it Bilmore? If so, why, Bilmore, why?

S_A_M

Secret_Agent_Man 10-11-2004 05:01 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
You say this like they're bad things.

(I offended a man who allegedly bribes the hell out of the system, and then passes a wildly unpopular law, just now annulled, granting himself immunity? I think he has thicker skin than you credit.)
He's almost as bad as Chirac -- except he's a dirty _conservative_ s.o.b.

S_A_M

sgtclub 10-11-2004 05:02 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
The WaPo ran large front-page articles about: (A) the AFGHAN (JFC Club, please learn to spell the word) elections on voting day, (B) the ink controversy, and (C) the apparent happy resolution. Good Morning America had Hamid Karzai on today.

Y'all can stop blowing the "liberal media" horn wrt coverage of foreign elections. No one wrote about Howard's victory because almost no one in America cares who wins in Australia. After all, it is not the job of the news media to MAKE the story, is it Bilmore? If so, why, Bilmore, why?

S_A_M
Spelling is hard

Gattigap 10-11-2004 05:02 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
Don't know. Don't get it.
Oh, for Pete's sake.

bilmore, can we just use this as shorthand for the next time we decide to bitch and moan about the bias in the media? If all you're reading is the NYT and the Mlps Hammer and Sickle, no wonder you're so pissed.

I swear to God, I'll go around this board and raise money to buy you a Time Warner Cable voucher. You may end up less informed for the experience, but OTOH you'll be happier about what you read and hear. 20 million viewers can't be wrong!

bilmore 10-11-2004 05:03 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
After all, it is not the job of the news media to MAKE the story, is it Bilmore? If so, why, Bilmore, why?
Maybe "Why, Dan, why?' would be more appropriate here.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2004 05:03 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me
Oh. My. God. Let's ignore class and race here? I spent half of last night arguing that Kerry has never addressed our nation's security! Where were you?

You seem a bit sensitive bout this class and race thing though. Ya ever consider talking to someone 'bout that?

That is simply not going to happen. I understand that people don't want to hear about it, and I've seen how far people will go to ignore it, but its the height of failure in our society, and the strongest argument a conservative (or really, anyone) has to point out hypocricy in this nation. But like I said, it sounds like you are a bit sensitive to this. You should talk to someone about that.
1. I was fucking my wife and playing with my new Ipod. Really amazing - loads of fun, and the old lady wasn't bad in the sack either, but she always performs well with a hangover. No, no anal.

2. My post was not at all about class or race, so those topics can't really be inerjected. I'd allow it if the class/race discussion was even tangentially related, but its not even that. You insist on fixating on class/race in regard to everything, like you've got some sort of obsession.

3. I don't mind hearing about class/race, when its applicable, but you have to have a least some semblance of a bridge. I hijack threads, but at least I pretend to to be creating the segueway. You're going straight from Dark Star into Alabama Getaway.

bilmore 10-11-2004 05:05 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Oh, for Pete's sake.
1). Outing people is mean.

2). You mean, I have to go to cable to find bias towards my side? When I'm stuck with just broadcast, of course I'm going to only see lefty lean?

Say_hello_for_me 10-11-2004 05:16 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
1. I was fucking my wife and playing with my new Ipod. Really amazing - loads of fun, and the old lady wasn't bad in the sack either, but she always performs well with a hangover. No, no anal.

2. My post was not at all about class or race, so those topics can't really be inerjected. I'd allow it if the class/race discussion was even tangentially related, but its not even that. You insist on fixating on class/race in regard to everything, like you've got some sort of obsession.

3. I don't mind hearing about class/race, when its applicable, but you have to have a least some semblance of a bridge. I hijack threads, but at least I pretend to to be creating the segueway. You're going straight from Dark Star into Alabama Getaway.
1. Cool.
2. I think you admit to too little and ascribe too much. For social issues, particularly relating to morality, class/race (add in religion/sexual orientation etc) are the giant elephant in the room. You can't seriously discuss (much as you might try) drug policy (which you brought up) in this country without talking about race/class etc. It. Is. That. Simple. You don't want to hear my schpiel again? Don't bring it up or, at best, don't mischaracterize my position as being inconsistent on drugs/morality/abortion. I have consistently advocated that the Federal Government should get out of the business except where they have a specific mandate to be in the business.
3. Speaking of bridges, if you could build a moat around the ghetto, do you think society would? For or against?

Hello

Gattigap 10-11-2004 05:18 PM

Aussie Elections
 
Quote:

Originally posted by bilmore
1) Outing people is mean.
Sorry 'bout that, Fred. Won't happen again.

Quote:

2). You mean, I have to go to cable to find bias towards my side? When I'm stuck with just broadcast, of course I'm going to only see lefty lean?
Ooooo! Good thing I play a lawyer during the day, or I'd have fallen into that trap you so cleverly laid out for me.

I mean that our thematic arguments about bias in the media should include some recognition of its significant players. Surely, as one who so values the dynamics of the marketplace, you'd see the merits of this view.

It's like we're discussing the merits of a particular shopping mall. The rest of us are trying to incorporate into the analysis whether the southern wing of the mall is worth considering, what with the new Nieman Marcus and all, and you're stuck on arguing about the crappy deal you got at the Food Court.

Replaced_Texan 10-11-2004 05:22 PM

Cubans for Kerry?
 
Some of my family members in Florida speculate that had it not been for Elian Gonzales, the election in Florida wouldn't have been as close in 2000. I know quite a few of my Cuban family members voted against Gore because of the way the whole thing was handled by the Clinton administration. The photographs that the Penske socks posted over and over again were very effective.

A lot has happened since then, and memories have faded a bit. Most of the Cuban members of my family say that they're voting against Bush this time around. This wing of the family has traditionally run for office in South Florida as Republican.

Sun Sentinal editorial from Cuban-American on why he's abandoning Bush. This doesn't seem like a demographic that Bush would want to lose.

et fix link--RT

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2004 05:23 PM

I'm Pleased
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Say_hello_for_me

3. Speaking of bridges, if you could build a moat around the ghetto, do you think society would? For or against?

Hello
It already has. Its called welfare. It keeps the rotten stasis. I'm not "for" it, but I see no other option. People have to eat and riots in the streets don't help anyone.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-11-2004 05:25 PM

Cubans for Kerry?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Some of my family members in Florida speculate that had it not been for Elian Gonzales, the election in Florida wouldn't have been as close in 2000. I know quite a few of my Cuban family members voted against Gore because of the way the whole thing was handled by the Clinton administration. The photographs that the Penske socks posted over and over again were very effective.

A lot has happened since then, and memories have faded a bit. Most of the Cuban members of my family say that they're voting against Bush this time around. This wing of the family has traditionally run for office in South Florida as Republican.

Sun Sentinal editorial from Cuban-American on why he's abandoning Bush. This doesn't seem like a demographic that Bush would want to lose.
You're part Cuban? When can I have that hug?

bilmore 10-11-2004 05:30 PM

Cubans for Kerry?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
Some of my family members in Florida speculate that had it not been for Elian Gonzales, the election in Florida wouldn't have been as close in 2000. I know quite a few of my Cuban family members voted against Gore because of the way the whole thing was handled by the Clinton administration. The photographs that the Penske socks posted over and over again were very effective.

A lot has happened since then, and memories have faded a bit. Most of the Cuban members of my family say that they're voting against Bush this time around. This wing of the family has traditionally run for office in South Florida as Republican.

Sun Sentinal editorial from Cuban-American on why he's abandoning Bush. This doesn't seem like a demographic that Bush would want to lose.
I was sort of amazed by that. On the one hand, the anti-Castro feelings aren't being fed enough by Bush - that seems to be complaint #1 - and then the travel restrictions, which were his (admittedly poorly aimed) attempt to hurt Castro, end up pissing off the anti-Castroites. So, they vote for Kerry? Seems self-destructive - or have the anti-Castro feelings subsided so much that it's no longer a factor?

sgtclub 10-11-2004 08:03 PM

The October Surprise
 
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041011/D85LDJ680.html

If this airs, it spells doom for Kerry.

Not Me 10-11-2004 08:10 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041011/D85LDJ680.html

If this airs, it spells doom for Kerry.
If the swing voters get to know who Kerry really is, they will hate him. Hell, even the Dems don't like him. They just hate Bush more than they don't like Kerry.

Gattigap 10-11-2004 08:18 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041011/D85LDJ680.html

If this airs, it spells doom for Kerry.
What's interesting that you've predicted doom for Kerry before .

I agree, however, that this doesn't sound too good, so this time you might be right. Though, given what I now know about the liberal broadcast media, I have no doubt that something will turn up, and it'll never air.

Sexual Harassment Panda 10-11-2004 08:18 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub

If this airs, it spells doom for Kerry.
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

sgtclub 10-11-2004 08:24 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
What's interesting that you've predicted doom for Kerry before .

I agree, however, that this doesn't sound too good, so this time you might be right. Though, given what I now know about the liberal broadcast media, I have no doubt that something will turn up, and it'll never air.
That was more of a joke. This time I'm serious. If this thing airs without enough time to effectively repair the damage caused, it is O-V-E-R.

sgtclub 10-11-2004 08:25 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
the word? I'm quite sure of the meaning.

Sexual Harassment Panda 10-11-2004 08:35 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041011/D85LDJ680.html

If this airs, it spells doom for Kerry.
I know absolutely nothing about FCC regulations pertaining to broadcast TV transmissions, licenses regarding same, etc., but -- wouldn't this run afoul of the equal time requirement? Can Kerry force Sinclair to run "F9/11" in response?

Not Me 10-11-2004 08:43 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
I agree, however, that this doesn't sound too good, so this time you might be right. Though, given what I now know about the liberal broadcast media, I have no doubt that something will turn up, and it'll never air.
The thing I find so entertaining about you Dems is that you admit that if Kerry's own actions are publicized, this is not good for his chances to be elected. There is no spin here. This is just showing footage of Kerry saying what he believed in. And of men who were held as POWs expressing how they felt about what Kerry said.

When the truth about Kerry is known, he will be a reviled figure. Even you Dems don't defend what he did. You just hate Bush so much that you will tolerate this vile man as your candidate.

Gattigap 10-11-2004 08:47 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Me
The thing I find so entertaining about you Dems is that you admit that if Kerry's own actions are publicized, this is not good for his chances to be elected. There is no spin here. This is just showing footage of Kerry saying what he believed in. And of men who were held as POWs expressing how they felt about what Kerry said.
You've bought the DVD? Cool!

(Now, that, my friends -- THAT is a concerned citizen.)

C'mon, tell us about some of the details.

Not Me 10-11-2004 08:56 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
You've bought the DVD? Cool!

(Now, that, my friends -- THAT is a concerned citizen.)

C'mon, tell us about some of the details.
looking for a defense of Kerry in what you post, but not finding it. There is no defending this man. Unless you call Bush Lied a defense of Kerry somehow.

SlaveNoMore 10-11-2004 09:02 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Sexual Harassment Panda
I know absolutely nothing about FCC regulations pertaining to broadcast TV transmissions, licenses regarding same, etc., but -- wouldn't this run afoul of the equal time requirement? Can Kerry force Sinclair to run "F9/11" in response?
Dan Rather already ran a hatchet job.

Call it even.

Gattigap 10-11-2004 09:18 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Dan Rather already ran a hatchet job.

Call it even.
Maybe Michael Powell can call this one the "Free Noogies" Rule.*








* I am completely unfamiliar with the FCC regs here. I simply could not resist the temptation to coin this term, which seems to occupy the heart of GOP apologia as the campaign winds down.

Sexual Harassment Panda 10-11-2004 09:19 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Dan Rather already ran a hatchet job.

Call it even.
Oh, I'm sure this flick, and its purveyor, will receive the same scrutiny that Rather's report was.

This is the same Sinclair Broadcasting Group that told its affiliates not to show the episode of Nightline earlier this year honoring the men and women of the US Armed Forces who were killed while serving in Iraq. At the time, their explanation was: "we do not believe such political statements should be disguised as news content."

Gattigap 10-11-2004 09:29 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041011/D85LDJ680.html

If this airs, it spells doom for Kerry.
As a side note, check out Sinclair's website with a listing of its stations. From a quick glance, I'm seeing a couple of random FOX and ABC affiliates, but a lot more of WB and UPN.

Maybe Sinclair's play to any FCC inquiry is not that the airing is either "political" or "news", but instead simply the opportunity to raise ratings for stations otherwise sentenced to air Celebrity Justice and Veronica Mars.

Gattigap 10-11-2004 09:38 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Me
looking for a defense of Kerry in what you post, but not finding it.
That's because club and I weren't discussing that. I understand that your conversational dial contains the settings --
  • Kerry = evil
  • Muslims = evil
  • Nimmer on Copyright, and
  • My Hoo-Ha, and related subjects
-- but every so often other topics crawl onto this board.

For that matter, a defense of Kerry was not what I responded to you about either, despite your efforts to drag the conversation there.

I was simply excited to hear that you'd bought the DVD and knew exactly what's in the movie. There's "no spin," remember? Any particular footage we should focus on?

SlaveNoMore 10-11-2004 09:44 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Sexual Harassment Panda
Oh, I'm sure this flick, and its purveyor, will receive the same scrutiny that Rather's report was.
Should Forrest Gump appear seated next to the young John Kerry while testifying before the Senate, then I think some scrutiny will be in order.

Otherwise, as they say, the thing "should speak for itself."

Replaced_Texan 10-11-2004 09:45 PM

The October Surprise
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
As a side note, check out Sinclair's website with a listing of its stations. From a quick glance, I'm seeing a couple of random FOX and ABC affiliates, but a lot more of WB and UPN.

Maybe Sinclair's play to any FCC inquiry is not that the airing is either "political" or "news", but instead simply the opportunity to raise ratings for stations otherwise sentenced to air Celebrity Justice and Veronica Mars.
This whole thing is sorta interesting to watch. Kos is linking to a "go after the advertisers" campaign and he's listed every major institutional investor of Sinclair. I don't know what the impact will be, but certainly the left is mobilized to hit back and prevent this from airing. I imagine there have been a lot of calls to the FCC as well. Sinclair's stock is down a bit today.

And the Astros are up 2-0 at the end of the 2nd. This is good.

ETA: Incidently, I've heard good things about Veronica Mars


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