I'm Pleased
 

Okay, you want a simple and principled answer on the abortion/gay marriage issues (there are two issues, by the way)? How about this: no legislature has any business regulating the familial relations of citizens in a free and democratic society unless it can demonstrate a compelling overriding public health interest.

I realize that actually having to deal with me as an individual disrupts your favored approach of addressing cliches instead of actual beliefs or positions, but there it is,

I'm Pleased
 

I'll buy this completely, but don't see how it speaks to abortion at all.

Or, when your kids get tired of your med bills and act on that, is it just a "familial" issue?

Cult of Personality
 

I read the article, too, Bilmore, and to be fair you should have noted that the quotes from the Kerry people (to the question of why they are voting for Kerry) are more along the lines of "it's 50-50 -- I like him and he's the Not Bush."

You're right that the Bush voters from that article are for unambiguously for Bush, though. Dred Scott, indeed.

I'm Pleased
 

Flip-flopper.

Last time we went drinking you agreed with me that the gov't should use our tax dollars to buy us hookers and coke.

...but do you read the re lines? do you, bilmore, do you?
 

Ah, Bilmore, we hardly knew ye.

I'm Pleased
 

this test would apply equally to the guy with the cross bow as it does to abortion, wouldn't it?

I'm Pleased
 

I thought we were talking about bilmore's tax dollars.

I'm Pleased
 

If you, in sunny new and rich Northern California, have no idea what I'm talking about, you could just say so. It might make you seem a little dense after its been clarified sequentially upon request for numerous posters, but I can't imagine one interpretation at any level beyond -afterbirth- on an Iowa Test that would read my words as meaning what you've said above.

Just to clear this up (again):
Get rid of any federal subsidies that create ghettoes by concentrating poverty. No ghetto, no ghetto to move into.
And many Dems aren't millionaires living in gated communities. You certainly don't want me to list their other constituencies.

The fact that so many greedy liberal lawyers can read what I write and still not have the first clue what I've said is evidence to me of the lengths people will go to not know what is happening in this nation. In your defense, I appreciate that you at least do not pretend to know. Its just sad to me that its so distant that you and others would constantly misinterpret it.


Hello

Bush, and fiscal "credibility."
 

FWIW, I did, in fact, stick a Bic pen in my RNC return envelope, with a note stating that my contribution will be forthcoming once the President picks it up and vetoes something. Anything.

I'm Pleased
 

"Bilmore's taxes"?

Remember that $1000 child tax credit?

(Of course, in fairness, the more kids you have, the more you really need the hookers and coke, so maybe it's a wash.)

I'm Pleased
 

Great. Will you allow the rest of us a chance to vote on the framework, or do we continue to have a Court make up interpretations as we go along as long as they support the end that you want?

I'm Pleased
 

Enter stage right - Not Me, with a bagful of polygamy.

Cult of Personality
 

Has that ever not been the case where an incumbent seeks reelection? Were Repubs really all that enthusiastic about Dole in 1996?* Certainly a lot of Clinton's support was for "change" in his first election. And how many primaries did Reagan lose -- five? -- before the Repubs finally picked him as their candidate, in a year where people regularly said "Anyone but Carter"?

Ross Perot stands out as an exception -- he was popular because he was him. But how far did that take him?

Sa-Prize, Sa-Prize, Sa-Prize!
 

Well, hell, Hank... who wouldn't? I mean, he's shown such dedication, what with going after his wife's "real killers" and all.

Cult of Personality
 

McGovern and Mondale - both had rabid supporters.

Just not enough of them.

I'm Pleased
 

Preventing the death of an innocent life is about as important of a public health interest as it gets. You are forgetting that with abortion, someone dies.

eta: I don't think deciding whether your kids live or die should be deemed "familial relations."

I'm Pleased
 

Well you must be talking to some morons, because if you asked me (not that I'd classify myself as a pro-lifer) I'd say "Sebby, I already do. It's called welfare, AIDC, Pell Grants, etc."

I'm Pleased
 

I'm guessing he's talking to his pro-choice friends, and they're all laughing at the line, 'cuz they just KNOW that would shut up a pro-lifer if they ever spoke to one.

Cult of Personality
 

Huh? There were many of us who were very enthusiastic about the Dole/Kemp ticket. Both are principled people with distinguished careers and would have made great leaders.

I disagree with you here, too.

I'm Pleased
 

2.

I'm Pleased
 

Having him shot didn't work?

I'm Pleased
 

You're calling me simple and then saying "It can all be cured with adoption?" Jesus man, you're in a fucking glass castle.

How does adoption solve the problem of the effect of the unwanted pregnancy on the woman? Does she get a vote? Or is it her fault? I notice the people harrumphing about moral responsibilty almost exclusively have penises. Strange coincidence...

Your taxes don't begin to pay for all the costs people who are forced to have children will be forced to bear. What are we going to do with all those kids who don't get adopted?

You're right - college isn't a birthright, but in the country we presently occupy, its the only way to ensure the kid won't wind up on the govt dole later. Are you advocating more unskilled people be brought into our society? Perhaps to add a few thousand headcount to the voter roles in the red states? Maybe we can convince these uneducated people that the inheritance tax will effect them or that Syria is planning to bomb them.

I'm Pleased
 

Others would draw a different conclusion.

I'm Pleased
 

teens who get pregnant typically do so while listening to music with horns in it.

I'm Pleased
 

Note to All - I've noticed that it helps to read Sebby's posts by inserting "many" instead of "all," and similar changes because, it Sebby speak, this is what he really means.

I'm Pleased
 

Music of the devil?

I'm Pleased
 

great sig line! it's the first I've seen that functions as a PB comment, but "fits" on FB. You do understand you can't post on Parents with it though right?

I'm Pleased
 

Thanks. For the record, I lifted it from here: http://theonion.com/opinion/index.php?issue=4041

I'm Pleased
 

Not the topic at hand, but what about the "rights" of the putative father? Does he get a vote? Or does she unilaterally get the control of his wallet for 18 years?

Ask this question to any number of childless parents out there desperately trying to adopt.

Tell this to the "unwashed" middle class manufacturing, contruction and service industry employees, that, in on particular order, delivered yyou your paper, picked your orange juice, turned on your plumbing. sold you your suit, built you your car and directed the traffic to your shiny, tall office building.

When did you turn into such a classist fucking snob?

If anything, it would alleviate the need for illegal immigration.

How does Philly vote again?

Better yet, maybe you can convince them that terrorism is only a "nuisance" on the level of prostitution.

Joke of the Day
 

From Thomas Sowell:

I'm Pleased
 

I was out hunting (huntin'?) with some of the kids recently. As we walked along in a line, we flushed out three birds from one corn patch, two of which were roosters. As you do in that situation, we all called out "Rooster!". Middle son took the shot, and missed both, but, in missing, he blasted into two different patches ahead and flushed out several birds from each, all out of our range. I stood there thinking "why am I forced to let him live?"

So, your post really resonated for me.

I'm Pleased
 

I love how you "values" people get on your horse and call people like me "moral relativists" and "selfish." Selfish? You are advocating forcing women you don't even know to lose part of their lives, if not their whole lives, because of your obnoxious moral certitude. Don't even think about pulling the Good Catholic card with me, asshole. I've seen what Catholicism does. I've seen the loveless marriages, alcoholism, guilt and all the other phobias wrought by your brand of "values." You arrogant fucks think you get to speak on behalf of women becuase the browbeaten excuses for women in your family never had the guts to let you know how they really felt about being relegated to housewife status by a patriarchal religion trapped in the 12th century. You want to tell women what to do with their bodies? You can do so - when you're a woman. Until then, you don't know shit but what dogma some priest fed you. I'm not daring to say I speak for women. I'll leave that choice to them.

I have friends in both high school and college who had abortions. You are making moral judgments on them. Who the fuck do you think you are, you pompous asshole. As long as you have a penis, I'd say this is a debate you should stay the fuck out of.

As to the NIMBY thing, I couldn't care less. You think I'm going to apologize for wanting to live somewhere nice and protect my investment? I don't even understand how that NIMBY thing is an insult. Of course I don't want anything bad in my backyard. To say otherwise would be absurd. What the hell is the matter with you?

I'm Pleased
 

Yep. No argument there.

Joke of the Day
 

When did the Swifties become NYT reporters?

I'm Pleased
 

Was it ok when various administration and defense department officials called terrorist attacks "a nuisance"? And Kerry did not say that terrorism was a nuisance -- here's what he said (from the NYT Magazine article) http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/10/ma...=1&oref=login:

• When I asked Kerry what it would take for Americans to feel safe again, he displayed a much less apocalyptic worldview. ''We have to get back to the place we were, where terrorists are not the focus of our lives, but they're a nuisance,'' Kerry said. ''As a former law-enforcement person, I know we're never going to end prostitution. We're never going to end illegal gambling. But we're going to reduce it, organized crime, to a level where it isn't on the rise. It isn't threatening people's lives every day, and fundamentally, it's something that you continue to fight, but it's not threatening the fabric of your life.''

Note to Bilmore -- this is what I was talking about when I said "hmmm, sounds familiar."

edited to add link to NYT. Not that anyone will actually read it, but you never know.

I'm Pleased
 

1. He gets a vote, but the person with the uterus gets veto power.

2. Neither of us has adoption stats, so I'm not going to argue on an issue neither of us can really speak to. No, I'm not googling the issue. I don't have all week to toy with you on this.

3. You misunderstood me. I meant that a child coming into the world should be given all advantages. You're advocating they be brought in to wash dishes? Its honorable work, but is that really your point?

4. I'm not classist. I just look down my nose at "traditionalists". I reserved that right. Act like a person 100 years ago and I'll ascribe the degree of enlightment a person had 100 years ago to you.

5. OK, so the argument is the aborted would be better off doing menail tasks for the rest of us. Who's classist again? I don't need a servant.

6. Terrorism is a nuisance. Its a horrific horrible nuisance. It could kill you, like many other things. What that has to do with this argument is beyond me, but I figured I'd better answer, to be "consistent" for Hello's sake.

I'm Pleased
 

I understood perfectly what Kerry meant, and thought he was pretty much right on.

Just like when Bush said the war might be unwinnable. I imagine you were defending that statement, too, right? I mean, they were saying the exact same thing.

(P.S. Already read the article. We are a literate bunch!)

I'm Pleased
 

Are you this bad in oral argument? I mean, really, I throw some wild analogies out there for sport, but... Eh, fuck it, I'll assume you're doing it on purpose or for laughs. Certainly, you're smart enough not to confuse absurdity with being profound (eta - or is that 'profundity' I meant there).

I'm Pleased
 

A child coming into the world should be given all advantages over who? Club, what does he mean by "advantages" here.

I'm Pleased
 

Are you this bad at understanding reasoning in real life?

You make this same argument every time the abortion thing comes up, by simply ignoring, pointedly, the basic premise that you don't share but that drives the other side. Until you at least deal with it, you're like the guy at trial saying "Judge, my car won't even GO that fast!" - entertaining, but irrelevant.