LawTalkers

LawTalkers (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/index.php)
-   Politics (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Meet your new thread, same as the old thread. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=781)

ltl/fb 07-27-2007 09:26 PM

Jesus.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I make these posts solely to see whether you or I are the bigger joke.

Your response proves that you are, yet again, my superior.

Salut!
I always suspected you were a bottom.

Hank Chinaski 07-27-2007 10:47 PM

Jesus.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I always suspected you were a bottom.
superior/inferior does not equate to penetrator/penetratee. You should see someone about your self image.

Tyrone Slothrop 07-27-2007 11:06 PM

Jesus.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I make these posts solely to see whether you or I are the bigger joke.
The guy tells it like it is, and so various wingers who've never been to Iraq explain all the reasons why it's obvious that he's not military. So when he reveals who is he, and that's he's serving, they trash him. Now he's "snivelling?" He's the one who's complaining and whining? That's a pretty fair description of how the wingers reacted to him.

SlaveNoMore 07-27-2007 11:12 PM

Jesus.
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
The guy tells it like it is, and so various wingers who've never been to Iraq explain all the reasons why it's obvious that he's not military. So when he reveals who is he, and that's he's serving, they trash him. Now he's "snivelling?" He's the one who's complaining and whining? That's a pretty fair description of how the wingers reacted to him.
Not a single guy that served with him will vouch for a single one of his "observations"?

Not a one.

Zero.

But somehow, pointing this guy out as a liar is both a "smear" and a right-wing reaction?

Swift Boat, Part 2 - a lying douchebag is somehow smeared when everyone refutes his lies.

The media is odious.

Tyrone Slothrop 07-27-2007 11:36 PM

Jesus.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Not a single guy that served with him will vouch for a single one of his "observations"?

Not a one.

Zero.

But somehow, pointing this guy out as a liar is both a "smear" and a right-wing reaction?

Swift Boat, Part 2 - a lying douchebag is somehow smeared when everyone refutes his lies.

The media is odious.
Yglesias has my proxy. When you come up with a lie, you just let us know. As Yglesias says,
  • What the right is trying to do is establish a precedent where if you say things the right doesn't want to hear anonymously then you'll be treated with a presumption of guilt. No matter how vindicated the article may be, it's still the case that TNR expended a lot of person-hours on re-verifying things even though nobody on the right raised any serious reason to doubt the story other than that it wasn't something they wanted to believe. It's extremely difficult to operate that way, and people won't want to. But suppose you do identify yourself. Then you get the full Michelle Malkin treatment -- character slimed, all kinds of personal details splayed across the internet, don't say you weren't warned.

How odd that other troops aren't stepping up to get the same treatment.

SlaveNoMore 07-28-2007 12:13 AM

Jesus.
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
Yglesias has my proxy. When you come up with a lie, you just let us know. As Yglesias says,
  • What the right is trying to do is establish a precedent where if you say things the right doesn't want to hear anonymously then you'll be treated with a presumption of guilt. No matter how vindicated the article may be, it's still the case that TNR expended a lot of person-hours on re-verifying things even though nobody on the right raised any serious reason to doubt the story other than that it wasn't something they wanted to believe. It's extremely difficult to operate that way, and people won't want to. But suppose you do identify yourself. Then you get the full Michelle Malkin treatment -- character slimed, all kinds of personal details splayed across the internet, don't say you weren't warned.

How odd that other troops aren't stepping up to get the same treatment.
I could link you to a gazillion other sites - Malkin, Insty, Blackfive, Allah - to show letters and emails from this guys "comrades" demostrating he is a fucking lying scumbag, but what is the point.

More interesting, is you of all people sticking up for the TNR. Truly the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Tyrone Slothrop 07-28-2007 09:34 AM

Jesus.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I could link you to a gazillion other sites - Malkin, Insty, Blackfive, Allah - to show letters and emails from this guys "comrades" demostrating he is a fucking lying scumbag, but what is the point.
Careful -- Hank's going to mock you for getting your worldview from crackpot blogs.

Quote:

More interesting, is you of all people sticking up for the TNR. Truly the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
That's what particularly crazy about the way the wingers are going batshit about that piece. The TNR is pro-war.

Tyrone Slothrop 07-30-2007 01:08 PM

From the same folks who brought you "starve the beast."
 
  • Regular care, in other words, makes a big difference. That’s why Congressional Democrats, with support from many Republicans, are trying to expand Schip, which already provides essential medical care to millions of children, to cover millions of additional children who would otherwise lack health insurance.

    But President Bush... has declared that he’ll veto any Schip expansion on “philosophical” grounds. It must be about philosophy, because it surely isn’t about cost. One of the plans Mr. Bush opposes, the one approved by an overwhelming bipartisan majority in the Senate Finance Committee, would cost less over the next five years than we’ll spend in Iraq in the next four months. And it would be fully paid for by an increase in tobacco taxes....

    So what kind of philosophy says that it’s O.K. to subsidize insurance companies, but not to provide health care to children?

    Well, here’s what Mr. Bush said after explaining that emergency rooms provide all the health care you need: “They’re going to increase the number of folks eligible through Schip; some want to lower the age for Medicare. And then all of a sudden, you begin to see a — I wouldn’t call it a plot, just a strategy — to get more people to be a part of a federalization of health care.”

    Now, why should Mr. Bush fear that insuring uninsured children would lead to a further “federalization” of health care, even though nothing like that is actually in either the Senate plan or the House plan? It’s not because he thinks the plans wouldn’t work. It’s because he’s afraid that they would. That is, he fears that voters, having seen how the government can help children, would ask why it can’t do the same for adults.

    And there you have the core of Mr. Bush’s philosophy. He wants the public to believe that government is always the problem, never the solution. But it’s hard to convince people that government is always bad when they see it doing good things. So his philosophy says that the government must be prevented from solving problems, even if it can. In fact, the more good a proposed government program would do, the more fiercely it must be opposed.

    This sounds like a caricature, but it isn’t. The truth is that this good-is-bad philosophy has always been at the core of Republican opposition to health care reform. Thus back in 1994, William Kristol warned against passage of the Clinton health care plan “in any form,” because “its success would signal the rebirth of centralized welfare-state policy at the very moment that such policy is being perceived as a failure in other areas.”...

    But denying basic health care to children whose parents lack the means to pay for it, simply because you’re afraid that success in insuring children might put big government in a good light, is just morally wrong...

Krugman

Diane_Keaton 07-30-2007 02:31 PM

Iraqis Have the Soccer Sillies
 
On the Iraqi soccer team victory:
Quote:

"Those heroes have shown the real Iraq. They have done something useful for the people as opposed to the politicians and lawmakers...," said Sabah Shaiyal, 43, a policeman in Baghdad's Shiite district of Sadr City.
Huh? They're a fucking soccer team and their win won't do dick for their country. The team captain isn't even bringing the trophy back there ("I don't want the Iraqi people to be angry with me," he said. "[But] if I go back with the team, anybody could kill me or try to hurt me.") Translation: I'm a pussy.
Quote:

On the car bombs that blew up Iraqis celebrating a win (not even the final one) that killed a baby: ""His mother said when her child was killed in front of her, she didn't cry. She said, 'I present my son as a sacrifice for the national team'. Then we had to win," he said.
This is exactly the violence-as-romantic, backward view that predominates no matter how educated or sophisticated a Muslim becomes. Particulary retarted when combined with run of the mill soccer frenzymania.
Quote:

Amir Mohammed, a Shiite, joined a Kurdish friend to celebrate. "The soccer team has shown that we are united from the south to the north," he said.
Go figure. I thought Kurds were being slaughtered or deported in the millions since the late 1970's and here they were united all along.

Post-game hoopla is awful enough without the added Muslim-think bullshit.

Carry on.

http://clarityandresolve.com/soccer_fatwa.jpg

Tyrone Slothrop 07-30-2007 02:35 PM

Iraqis Have the Soccer Sillies
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
The team captain isn't even bringing the trophy back there ("I don't want the Iraqi people to be angry with me," he said. "[But] if I go back with the team, anybody could kill me or try to hurt me.") Translation: I'm a pussy.
  • The remains of 13 members of an Iraqi tae kwon do team kidnapped last year have been found in western Iraq, police and hospital officials said Saturday.

    The team had been driving to a training camp in neighboring Jordan in May 2006, when their convoy was stopped and all 15 athletes abducted along a road between the cities of Fallujah and Ramadi, in Anbar province.

    Members of the Anbar Salvation Council, a group of Sunni tribal leaders who have partnered with U.S. and Iraqi officials to fight al Qaeda influence in Anbar, found the 13 bodies Friday west of Ramadi, near the main highway leading to Jordan, said Anbar police Col. Rashid Nayef. Two of the athletes remained unaccounted for.

    The remains — mostly skulls and bones entangled in tattered sports uniforms — were transferred to Imam Ali Hospital in Baghdad's predominantly Shiite Sadr City neighborhood, home to most of the athletes. A doctor there, who spoke on condition of anonymity for security reasons, said the bones would undergo DNA testing to determine their identities.

    Relatives gathered at the hospital Saturday to mourn the victims. Women in black Muslim robes cried out while men hoisted rickety wood coffins atop minivans and cars. Plastic athletic sandals lay scattered on the ground near the bodies.

    The athletes were members of a private sports club that hopes to one day send members to the Olympics.

    “We were hoping that we would see them alive and competing for their country in international championships, but regrettably, they were killed by the Takifiris in a very ugly way,” said Hussein al-Obeidi, the secretary-general of the Iraqi Olympic Committee, referring to Sunni Muslim extremists.

    Ali Kanoun, said his cousin, one of the victims, was never involved in politics and was unfairly targeted.

    “His dream was to represent his country in sports, but instead he was killed,” said Kanoun, cousin of Rasoul Salah.

    “I tell the killers, you should point your guns at the Americans and the foreigners (fighting in Iraq) instead of hurting athletes who were representing all of Iraq, not their tribe or sect,” Kanoun said by telephone from a crowd of mourners at Imam Ali Hospital.

    Athletes and sports officials have increasingly become targets of threats, kidnappings and assassination attempts in Iraq, either as part of tit-for-tat violence between Shiites and Sunnis or for ransom.

    Victims have included the Sunni head of one of Iraq's leading soccer clubs, an Iraqi international soccer referee, a top player on the Iraqi Olympic soccer team and a national volleyball player.


    A blind Iraqi athlete and paralympics coach were kidnapped last year but later released unharmed after sports officials said their abductors determined neither man was linked to the Sunni insurgency.

    Gunmen also kidnapped the chairman of Iraq's National Olympic Committee and at least 30 other officials last year, including the presidents of the tae kwon do and boxing federations, in a bold daylight raid on a sports conference in the heart of Baghdad. Iraq's national wrestling coach, a Sunni, was killed around the same time in a Shiite district of Baghdad.

CBS News

Tyrone Slothrop 07-30-2007 04:35 PM

What does this mean?
 
Via James Wolcott, this is from the end of Vanity Fair's profile of Rudy Giuliani:
  • The position of "Mrs. Giuliani" has not historically been a secure post. Although the candidate has lately been warned by advisers to avoid any hint of scandal, there is a sense that perhaps he is not listening. "Does a leopard change its spots?" says one close friend. Recently, Starr Shephard, a Texan who informs me she used to be on the "U.S. world team of rhythmic twirling gymnastics," emerged in The National Enquirer, which ran a story suggesting she might be a Giuliani love interest. "I am not having an affair with Rudy Giuliani. I do not need a political power stick," the 36-year-old redhead says when I call her. "I believe in his vision and his voice even if I do not believe in his family."


    "What do you mean by that?" I wonder.

    "Oh, you know, you hear things about his family," she replies.

Says Wolcott (who also writes for VF):
  • I have no idea what this strange contortionist is intimating about the family, but I am relieved that Rudy's leopard-spotted power stick has not fallen into her twirling hands. Such a scandal would only serve to upstage Jeri Thompson's snowy Alps, which, I'm sure David Gergen would agree, is not the direction this country wants to go.

link

Atticus Grinch 07-31-2007 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
This is exactly the violence-as-romantic, backward view that predominates no matter how educated or sophisticated a Muslim becomes.
Which asserted basis for initiating the Iraq war did you find persuasive?

Secret_Agent_Man 07-31-2007 02:04 PM

Jesus.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I make these posts solely to see whether you or I are the bigger joke.

Your response proves that you are, yet again, my superior.
Yeah -- but you're like Avis.

S_A_M

Tyrone Slothrop 07-31-2007 04:15 PM

http://comics.com/wash/opus/archive/...7070149638.jpg

Tyrone Slothrop 07-31-2007 04:26 PM

this just in:
  • Lawyers at Kirkland & Ellis, the law firm that's home to Whitewater prosecutor Kenneth Starr and Bush administration official Jay Lefkowitz, have given more to Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign than to all of the top Republican candidates combined.

Bloomberg

Hank Chinaski 07-31-2007 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
this just in:
  • Lawyers at Kirkland & Ellis, the law firm that's home to Whitewater prosecutor Kenneth Starr and Bush administration official Jay Lefkowitz, have given more to Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign than to all of the top Republican candidates combined.

Bloomberg
of course. do you know how much starr billed? if she were actually President, in 2 years every partner there will be buying ocean front vacation homes. Can you imagine the shit she'd get up to?

Tyrone Slothrop 08-01-2007 11:55 AM

"and I love his position on the Federal Reserve"
 
Ron Paul ad (mostlySFW) -- discuss.

Tyrone Slothrop 08-01-2007 04:31 PM

David Vitter, take notes.
 
  • "I say one thing to you out loud. How many deputies go to bed with prostitutes? It's not a crime. Of course I identify with Christian values but what have those got to do with going to bed with a prostitute? This is a private matter."

link

I'm a little surprised that the Ron Paul thing didn't get a reaction, but I guess people expect to see the lesbian action on the FB, not here.

Hank Chinaski 08-02-2007 10:37 AM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Okay, CAIR, the entity that fights every step taken here to highlight the insanity the Jihadis want, has engaged it's hired gun to stop free speech once again:

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...air-letter.jpg

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/08/0...obert-spencer/

here's the thing, CAIR's shill is also General Counsel for the DNC. Once we get to the election you'll lose again, not because the Rs will defame your candidate's weakness on terror, but because your own Party needs to be so "big umbrella" that you actually would be. You GC is CAIR's attorney. that is scary.

Bonus points: how many think Obama would invade Pakistan?

Tyrone Slothrop 08-02-2007 11:14 AM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
CAIR's shill is also General Counsel for the DNC. Once we get to the election you'll lose again, not because the Rs will defame your candidate's weakness on terror, but because your own Party needs to be so "big umbrella" that you actually would be. You GC is CAIR's attorney. that is scary.
You're going to hold his legal clients against the party? Quick, someone get me a copy of Fred Thompson's talking points. "The flies buzz louder in the summer." There we go.

Cletus Miller 08-02-2007 12:35 PM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You're going to hold his legal clients against the party? Quick, someone get me a copy of Fred Thompson's talking points. "The flies buzz louder in the summer." There we go.
I enjoy that he is citing to a blog.

Secret_Agent_Man 08-02-2007 12:38 PM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Bonus points: how many think Obama would invade Pakistan?
Depends on the facts -- probably less likely to do so than Hillary.

But that's pretty much irrelevant because I can guarantee you that whoever the next President may be won't invade Pakistan.

We simply can't do it while we're in Iraq and Afghanistan. We would be all but physically incapable of doing so within two years even if we immediately withdrew from Iraq.

It will take the Army years to recover from where we are now to the pre-Iraq condition. And everyone knows it.

S_A_M

P.S. The "Young Americans for Freedom" are a bunch of ball-sucking (NTTAWWT) wild-eyed, lunatics -- much like their leftist counterparts.

Hank Chinaski 08-02-2007 12:42 PM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
I enjoy that he is citing to a blog.
i linked the guy's firm bio, and the actual CAIR letter.

ltl/fb 08-02-2007 12:43 PM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Depends on the facts -- probably less likely to do so than Hillary.

But that's pretty much irrelevant because I can guarantee you that whoever the next President may be won't invade Pakistan.

We simply can't do it while we're in Iraq and Afghanistan. We would be all but physically incapable of doing so within two years even if we immediately withdrew from Iraq.

It will take the Army years to recover from where we are now to the pre-Iraq condition. And everyone knows it.

S_A_M

P.S. The "Young Americans for Freedom" are a bunch of ball-sucking (NTTAWWT) wild-eyed, lunatics -- much like their leftist counterparts.
What do you have against ball-sucking? Wow.

Cletus Miller 08-02-2007 12:51 PM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
i linked the guy's firm bio, and the actual CAIR letter.
This is the only link in your post:

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/08/...robert-spencer/

Not his firm bio. Perhaps a mistake?

ETA: Or you're the poster "Bryan" at hotair.com?

Hank Chinaski 08-02-2007 12:56 PM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
This is the only link in your post:

http://hotair.com/archives/2007/08/...robert-spencer/

Not his firm bio. Perhaps a mistake?

ETA: Or you're the poster "Bryan" at hotair.com?
http://www.sandlerreiff.com/bio_sandler.htm sorry. i meant to include this.

Secret_Agent_Man 08-02-2007 01:00 PM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
What do you have against ball-sucking? Wow.
Have you seen the Young Americans for Freedom on most campuses?

And I _said_ "NTTAWWT" !

S_A_M

ltl/fb 08-02-2007 01:08 PM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
Have you seen the Young Americans for Freedom on most campuses?

And I _said_ "NTTAWWT" !

S_A_M
People who suck balls are unattractive? NTTAWWT to me indicates that in absolute terms, it's fine, but you don't like it.

I did once end up (long story) at a Federalist Society thingy. Oy. Blech.

Diane_Keaton 08-02-2007 01:44 PM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Once we get to the election you'll lose again, not because the Rs will defame your candidate's weakness on terror, but because your own Party needs to be so "big umbrella" that you actually would be. You GC is CAIR's attorney. that is scary.
In all fairness there have been bi-partisan condemnations of CAIR. See below. Still, there are lots of dems that need to shake their association with dhimmi-ish views.

Schumer: "we know that CAIR has ties to terrorism"

Boxer (taking back award she gave to CAIR): "To praise an organization because they haven't been indicted is like somebody saying, 'I'm not a crook'" (Um, whatever).

Article speculating whether other Dems will follow her lead:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/default.aspx

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 08-02-2007 03:46 PM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
You're going to hold his legal clients against the party? Quick, someone get me a copy of Fred Thompson's talking points. "The flies buzz louder in the summer." There we go.
Let's see -

Hank could (a) talk about how well everything is going in Iraq; (b) talk about Bush's other foreign policy successes; (c) talk about Bush's domestic policy successes; or (d) try to create bizarre, substanceless issues and throw mud at the Democrats.

You see, if we want Hank to post at all, he really doesn't have any other options than to post Penskes like this.

But if we want to talk about substantive issues, how 'bout that Alberto, with his "confusing" testimony. Yes, Alberto, it was, uh, pretty confusing.

Hank Chinaski 08-02-2007 04:18 PM

why you will not win, or if you do, we all lose
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Let's see -

Hank could (a) talk about how well everything is going in Iraq; (b) talk about Bush's other foreign policy successes; (c) talk about Bush's domestic policy successes; or (d) try to create bizarre, substanceless issues and throw mud at the Democrats.

You see, if we want Hank to post at all, he really doesn't have any other options than to post Penskes like this.

But if we want to talk about substantive issues, how 'bout that Alberto, with his "confusing" testimony. Yes, Alberto, it was, uh, pretty confusing.
  • 29. Three To Get Ready
    Gilligan finds a rare gemstone and according to its legend, is granted three wishes.
    The first two he wastes on ice cream that mysteriously floats ashore. Finally for
    his last wish, Gilligan wishes the Castaways off the island. The patch of land
    they're standing on separates into the lagoon.
    Directed by Jack Arnold

Tyrone Slothrop 08-02-2007 06:29 PM

For the right-wing crazies, mission accomplished on the Beauchamp thing. His story checks out, but they've successfully punished him for saying things they didn't like, a message that other soldiers serving in Iraq will surely read loud and clear.

SlaveNoMore 08-02-2007 08:43 PM

Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
For the right-wing crazies, mission accomplished on the Beauchamp thing. His story checks out...
No, it doesn't.Ace of Spades

Quote:

I'll start with this:
  • In the first, Beauchamp recounted how he and a fellow soldier mocked a disfigured woman seated near them in a dining hall. Three soldiers with whom TNR has spoken have said they repeatedly saw the same facially disfigured woman. One was the soldier specifically mentioned in the Diarist. He told us: "We were really poking fun at her; it was just me and Scott, the day that I made that comment. We were pretty loud. She was sitting at the table behind me. We were at the end of the table. I believe that there were a few people a few feet to the right."
    The recollections of these three soldiers differ from Beauchamp's on one significant detail (the only fact in the piece that we have determined to be inaccurate): They say the conversation occurred at Camp Buehring, in Kuwait, prior to the unit's arrival in Iraq. When presented with this important discrepancy, Beauchamp acknowledged his error. We sincerely regret this mistake.


Error? Mistake? He was off by an entire country and something like nine months?

This is what TNR terms an "error," a "mistake"? And when they "fact-checked" this beforehand, how did their "rigorous editing and fact-checking" miss the fact this took place in another country, before actual deployment?


I'm reminded of Steven Wright's joke: "The other day I was... oh wait, that was someone else."

Could happen to anyone, really. Common mistake.

What made this tall tale smell (and not "smell good," per TNR's standard of "fact-checking") was that no one could figure out what the hell a badly disfigured woman -- obviously a medical evacuation case -- was doing wandering around a Forward Operating Base in the first place. A med-evac was there... why? In the thick of combat and high-tempo activity... why? What is FOB Falcon, a goddamned sanitarium/spa? Do they have lovely regenerative baths there?

It also didn't help that no one -- no one spoken to -- could remember seeing such a woman on the base.

TNR calls this an "error." As you like it.
Read the whole link. He slays Ty's assessment.

Gattigap 08-02-2007 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
No, it doesn't.Ace of Spades



Read the whole link. He slays Ty's assessment.
Just so I can follow, is this essentially the Christmas in Cambodia thing? Or does the corroborating witnesses saying, "yeah, we treated the woman that way, but it was in Kuwait" make it different at all?

Tyrone Slothrop 08-02-2007 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
He slays Ty's assessment.
From the crowd that thinks we're winning in Iraq, this makes perfect sense.

SlaveNoMore 08-02-2007 09:12 PM

Quote:

Gattigap
Just so I can follow, is this essentially the Christmas in Cambodia thing? Or does the corroborating witnesses saying, "yeah, we treated the woman that way, but it was in Kuwait" make it different at all?
Um, one witness confirms that he and the author made fun of a woman before they ever stepped foot in Iraq.

Hardly the meme of the story - that the war is turning soldiers into beasts. More like the author and his corroborating friend are and were dicks long before they got to Iraq.

And this being the case, why would you publish an article by a total dick irrepresentative of the Armed Forces, other than sheer nepotism obviously.

on the same theme, from the weekly standard:

Quote:

So just to be clear, the first line of the original piece stated that Beauchamp “saw her nearly every time I went to dinner in the chow hall at my base in Iraq.” That turns out now to be a blatant lie–and one that Beauchamp stuck with after THE WEEKLY STANDARD first asked Foer to reveal the base at which this incident occurred. Further, TNR says in this new statement that “Shock Troops” “was about the morally and emotionally distorting effects of war.” But now we find out that Beauchamp hadn’t even gotten to Iraq when this incident allegedly took place. He was, in fact, a morally stunted sadist before he ever set foot in Iraq.

After recounting this tale, Beauchamp asks a rhetorical question:

Am I a monster? I have never thought of myself as a cruel person….I was relieved to still be shocked by my own cruelty—to still be able to recognize that the things we soldiers found funny were not, in fact, funny.

Relieved that he was still shocked at his own cruelty? After his tour in Germany and the long flight to Kuwait? This whole essay was meant to demonstrate the damage war does to our own troops–but if this incident occurred at all, it only proves that Beauchamp was a vile creep to begin with.

Tyrone Slothrop 08-02-2007 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore, quoting The Weekly Standard
This whole essay was meant to demonstrate the damage war does to our own troops–but if this incident occurred at all, it only proves that Beauchamp was a vile creep to begin with.
I personally will pay $3 -- or whatever it takes -- so that whoever wrote this crap can watch Full Metal Jacket.

SlaveNoMore 08-02-2007 10:15 PM

Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
I personally will pay $3 -- or whatever it takes -- so that whoever wrote this crap can watch Full Metal Jacket.
Another excellent piece of fiction. Touche

Diane_Keaton 08-02-2007 11:10 PM

TNR
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Just so I can follow, is this essentially the Christmas in Cambodia thing? Or does the corroborating witnesses saying, "yeah, we treated the woman that way, but it was in Kuwait" make it different at all? So all of Beauchamp's moral decay occurred before he ever saw combat. Before he entered the theater. Before the grind and inhumanity of war had its way with his tender soul.

This story was not about a cynical, war-weary soldier losing sight of humanity - it was about a newbie who had just finished training and was on his way to his first duty station. His behavior wasn't a result of the hardships of the combat environment - it was a result of his being an innate asshole. A huge, insensitive, loutish asshole.
Not much difference if he was fighting in Kuwait, which he wasn't. The point of the essays was how the war in Iraq is causing moral decay among troops. The dude hadn't even been to Iraq (or fought) yet when the incident allegedly happened.

Junk Yard Blog said it best:
Quote:

So all of Beauchamp's moral decay occurred before he ever saw combat. Before he entered the theater. Before the grind and inhumanity of war had its way with his tender soul. So all of Beauchamp's moral decay occurred before he ever saw combat. Before he entered the theater. Before the grind and inhumanity of war had its way with his tender soul. This story was not about a cynical, war-weary soldier losing sight of humanity - it was about a newbie who had just finished training and was on his way to his first duty station. His behavior wasn't a result of the hardships of the combat environment - it was a result of his being an innate asshole. A huge, insensitive, loutish asshole.

Tyrone Slothrop 08-02-2007 11:17 PM

TNR
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Diane_Keaton
Junk Yard Blog said it best: "So all of Beauchamp's moral decay occurred before he ever saw combat."
Well, damn, a bunch of right-wing bloggers have proved that combat doesn't cause moral decay. They ought to win the Nobel Prize for this. Once they finish kicking the shit out of Beauchamp, they can turn to Shakespeare, Ernst Junger, Stephen Crane, Ernest Hemingway, Joseph Heller, Kurt Vonnegut, and all the others.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:15 AM.

Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
Hosted By: URLJet.com