SS & savings
 

I saw one article the other day that indicated that the "halving the deficit" promise is even more hollow. Not only are we using an inflated prediction, rather than the actual 2004 deficit, as a starting point, but are halving in terms of %% of GDP, not dollars. Which, of course, allows you to make a proposal that will "succeed" by inflating the predictions for economic growth.

I don't think this is how Bush sold the plan to the electorate -- i.e., I remember him saying "I will cut the deficit in half by 2009," not "the 2009 deficit will be less than half of the deficit we predicted for 2004," but hey -- I still think he sold the war in Iraq based on WMD.

A Modest Proposal
 

It's because you're usually an asshole. Not always, but usually. As for the posts when you aren't an asshole, even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

SS & savings
 

KPMG and their pet lawyers have been having fun unwinding lots of transactions -- but they frequently get paid on both ends, so it's no skin off their back. And shit like 529 plans are advertised by the IRS, so not that exciting. I may have been thinking that you were talking about stuff that is not practically highlighted on the tax form, urging you to use it.

But I won't try to BOSS you around. Hee hee.

Strange Bedfellows
 

No. I was poking fun at slave, not you.


Fuck you. Are you Not Me? If you fantasize that anyone to the left of you is part of a rock-solid bloc on every issue, I can't help you. They have excellent meds now for that sort of delusion.

SS & savings
 

Part of my message was about 529s and the like, in order to point out that GGG's comment about 401(k)s was only scratching the surface. I was not playing "who knows the tax codes better?" with you. Nor was I trying to excite you. So back off.

As for the other part of my message, I am painfully/joyfully familiar (in the "I got to bill a lot of hours" sense) with the various tax-shelter plans sold by KPMG and approved in "pay me 50k for a tax opinion" letters from certain large firms. The things I am talking about are nothing of the sort. They are fairly simple and standard savings plans, not transactions created for no legitimate business purpose but merely to avoid taxes. Again, the point was that talking about 401(k)s just scratches the surface of tax-favored investments. Virtually all of which benefit wealthy people.

SS & savings
 

You said "can put away amounts in the six figures a year, tax-free" which is a hell lot, if you are not including any defined contribution contributions, and are talking about someone in a partnership.

It's flat-out true for executives, though there's always the threat of bankruptcy hanging over their heads.

ETA I was also reading this earlier today, and I worry that you all will get sucked into wacko schemes. If it's too good to be true, it probably isn't, etc. etc.

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/se_020705.pdf

SS & savings
 

Hey, it's no SCIN off his back.

Strange Bedfellows
 

Try this, club. Google "Howard Dean DNC."

Strange Bedfellows
 

As you have said many times (and I agree) Dean is not a liberal.

SS & savings
 

Again, nothing like this.

I'm done with this discussion. If the group of very cautious lawyers who decide on our retirement plans turn out to be wrong, and the group of very cautious lawyers who advise them as well, I'll let you know.

SS & savings
 

I need to escape this discussion. (Damn, I can't remember how the acronym was spelled. But the scheme was a doozy.)

A Modest Proposal
 

Uh oh, now there's pressure.

Standards change with time. Used to be that no one even considered the possibility of giving dialysis to an End Stage Renal Disease patient. In fact, one of the reasons that the nephrologists managed to get dialysis covered by medicare for ANYONE (not just the old folks) is that they argued in 1972 that the return would be greater than the cost. Nowadays, it's considered negligently criminal to withhold dialysis from ESRD patients, and truthfully, despite the exhorbinent costs, those patients have a much better quality of life now that they can get dialysis.

The major problem with rationing elderly health care is that a lot of times you often don't know that the patient is going to get sick and die until after treatment has started. If 50 percent of the old folk who get artificial hearts go on to have really nice, healthy lives for the next 20 years, and 25 percent of them have OK lives, and another 25 percent die within the year, you run into a lot of problems arguing that there's no benefit in giving artificial hearts to old folk.

What you need instead is better outcomes research, so you can figure out why that 50 percent did so well and not waste money on the last 25 percent. That middle 25 percent is the group that really causes the ethical problems. There's not enough evidence based medicine these days.

Strange Bedfellows
 

You are being ridiculous. Intra-party squabbling is written into the Democratic Party bylaws. Contrast that to the lockstep fealty that is the hallmark of the Republican Party.

Strange Bedfellows
 

In club-dom, Democrats who criticize other Democrats are not liberal. QED.

And much as they love Reagan, Repubs just HATE being reminded of his Eleventh Commandment.

Strange Bedfellows
 

I thought everyone to the left of Neal Cavuto was liberal. Please explain.

Strange Bedfellows
 

correct me if I'm wrong, but the DEMs and libertals are not the same circle in the Ven diagram.

A Modest Proposal
 

I am an asshole in two ways: Type 1 is to people who I am actually pretty friendly with- it's our little fun! Type 2 is to people towards whom I wish to be seen as being an asshole. See?

Strange Bedfellows
 

There's certainly a great deal of overlap. It's a big tent.

As for the liberals outside the Dems, I mean c'mon - how much more marginalized can you be?

Strange Bedfellows
 

Polosi = liberal
Dean = non-liberal
Kennedy = liberal
Lieberman = non-liberal
Kerrey = liberal
Breaux = non-liberal

Need more examples?

Strange Bedfellows
 

Actually, I'd like your definition of liberal before moving forward. I'm still not clear on what you think of as "liberal."

Strange Bedfellows
 

Man, I thought the endless SS talk was getting boring. Now Club wants to channel Not Me and have the "liberals don't criticize liberals, but conservatives and Republicans, in their boundless purity and intellectual honesty, always stand ready to criticize their own" discussion.

If I start puking now, will Medicare cover me?

Politits Post
 

For those who were wondering why they didn't air that GoDaddy.com ad again on Sunday, it looks like they pulled it during the Super Bowl (maybe that explains why we saw the stupid Mustang ad twice on two consecutive breaks).


http://story.news.yahoo.com/fc?cid=3...Super_Bowl_Ads


Now, can someone explain to me how a woman in a tank top is obscene -- as in, subject to fines, a threat to family values, and enough to throw Focus on the Family into a sputtering fit -- but the average, much more revealing cheerleader costume is not?

Maybe it's because the woman in the ad had such a profoundly great rack, but I don't think so.

A Modest Proposal
 

I think that I am mainly correct when I say that most proctologists would agree that an asshole is an asshole. Some are just more bloody or inflamed than others.

Strange Bedfellows
 

You made that leap, Not Me.

Politits Post
 

I was appalled by the open endorsement of illegal drug use during the halftime show. Though, perhaps a reasonable construction was that Paul wanted Jo-Jo to go back to Tuscon and stop smoking that California grass. Or that Jo-Jo was getting some zoysia (sp?) for his lawn.

Strange Bedfellows
 

Here's my start of a self-test - others are free to join in:

1. Do you value groups over individuals?

2. Do you believe in moral or cultural relativism?

3. Do you think religion is for the stupid and/or naieve?

4. Do you think economic equality is not only desirable, but is also doable?

5. Do you think that the government should make decisions on behalf of the "common good"?

Strange Bedfellows
 

Fascinating. I just learned that I'm not a liberal.

Hey, Slave -- let's have a party! You bring Ann, I'll bring the strap-on.

Strange Bedfellows
 

Ummm...I was told there wasn't going to be a test?...

Strange Bedfellows
 

By your definition, I am not a liberal.

Strange Bedfellows
 

Maybe you only have to have one of those?

Strange Bedfellows
 

Feel free to join me, Slave, and Annie.

Strange Bedfellows
 

I'm not sure what 2 means- but you have all the others between your SS pland your health care plan and your understanding of the evolution issue.

Strange Bedfellows
 

Oh, for God's sake, club. Even the Federalist Society doesn't publish shit like this anymore.

Please, PLEASE read less Coulter, watch less O'Reilly, and listen to less Limbaugh. Read, watch, and listen to .... well, almost anything else.

And you'd better revise #3, because I think you just painted bilmore as a pinko commie.

Strange Bedfellows
 

Social Security doesn't value individuals?

Social Security is a means of creating economic equality?


You people are ridiculous. Club's "liberal" test reads like a primer from the Eisenhower Administration on "How to Recognize a Commie."

Strange Bedfellows
 

What do you say we all go to Mass together?

Strange Bedfellows
 

Are you mad because under my test you don't think you are a liberal?

Frankly, I think most of you fail under #1, unless you no longer believe in affirmative action.

Strange Bedfellows
 

So is it any one of those and you are a liberal? Because I don't think that the non-liberals you listed earlier meet every one of the criteria on your list, and sounds like you are saying "if you are any of the above, you are a liberal."

Strange Bedfellows
 

I'm not mad at all. Just convinced that you are a blithering idiot.

What next? Do we return to the "government never accomplished anything" and "government doesn't help me earn a living" discussion?

Under your "test" (read: absurd stereotype), I don't think anyone is a liberal. Possibly a handful of members of the Spartacus League, but I doubt it.

Strange Bedfellows
 

Ah, you were just talking about WHITE individuals!


I'd recommend the White House approved test for liberalism instead.

Strange Bedfellows
 

Depends on perspective
SS as now in place "values individuals" in that it seeks to make sure no of them starve- however it "values groups" it that it takes from individuals to make sure all old people eat. And yes it is a way of taking a step towards equality.

The SS fix Greedy proposes pushes both of those further towards SS "valuing groups" and being for equality.