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Secret_Agent_Man 02-09-2005 02:00 PM

Another $320 billion for old people
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
NYTimes reports that new estimates of the cost of Bush's prescription drug plan are $720 billion over 10 years. Just slightly higher than the $400 billion the White House "predicted" (remember, back when they were suppressing any estimates of higher costs).
Yes, but (as reported on NPR this a.m.) -- this discrepancy wasn't really caused by changes in any of the yearly cost estimates.

The original ten year projection of $400 billion when the bill was being considered covered 2004-2013. The trick there was that the plan had no prescription drug benefit in 2004 and 2005 , just that little drug discount card that was estimated to cost about $5 billion for the two years combined.

At this point, two years later, the new 10 year projection covers 2006-2015, and 2014 and 2015 are _very expensive_ years (about $150 billion per). The projected cost of the program will continue to rise over time as the population continues to age, unless the benefit is changed or drug costs fall.

The Medicare folks knew this. Most people just didn't pay attention, though.

S_A_M

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 02-09-2005 02:01 PM

Apologies to SS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
My guess is no, because raising the minimum age means raising the pay-outs down the line. The long-term problems with SS arise from demographic changes -- more people living longer, and lower birth rates meaning fewer people paying into the system to support them.
I think that's right. I don't know what the return factors are, but they are far better at the lower end of the spectrum than at the high end. That is, people with low payins get a 1:1 (or even better return), so there's no money to be made by increasing their pay-in. The money to be made is at teh top end, where the payback rate is more like 1:2.

Moreover, how many people spend their entire career at minimum wage (assuming legal work)? Most semi-talented people start at the minimum but work their way up after a few years. since benefits are based on 35 best years (or something akin), unless a sizable portion of that time is at minimum wage, a change is not going to have much effect.

Not to mention the people not hired because of hte higher minimum--what about them?

Gattigap 02-09-2005 02:01 PM

Another $320 billion for old people
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
And while we're on the subject of the Bush deficits, another few thoughts on why the "50% reduction" is bullshit.

-- costs of the war in Iraq and in Afghanistan are not counted, right? I guess the question of "how do we pay for this" doesn't seem to fly in the Oval Office.
Hmm. Seems I have an answer to my earlier question. Gracias, Sidd.

Replaced_Texan 02-09-2005 02:05 PM

Another $320 billion for old people
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
NYTimes reports that new estimates of the cost of Bush's prescription drug plan are $720 billion over 10 years. Just slightly higher than the $400 billion the White House "predicted" (remember, back when they were suppressing any estimates of higher costs).
The Republican on NPR this morning explained that the original estimate included 2004 and 2005, which are years that do not have the benefits in place, wheras this estimate includes 2014 and 2015 where the benefit is fully funded.

He also explained that Medicaid cuts were going to help fund the prescription drug benefit. I'm sure that the sick poor will understand that covering (non-negotiated priced) viagra is more important than their health coverage.

Pete Stark's people were livid and their estimate is closer to a trillion.

eta stp

taxwonk 02-09-2005 02:07 PM

Strange Bedfellows
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I don't think you care what I think, other than it gives you another excuse to call me stupid, which is laughable coming from you, but I've learned to accept it with a smile :)

I think my test is right on. If you don't agree, please explain. Calling it idiotic is not helpful to the bi-partisan atmosphere I'm trying to facilitate here.

With that said:

Here's a start at the conservative test:

1. Do you believe that government should be able to have control over social issues in order to foster moral behavior?

2. Do you believe that the first amendment permits the practice of religion and/or belief in god in or by public institutions, so long as it is not overtly coercise?

3. Do you believe taxes are too high?

4. Do you believe that the federal government has usurped the powers that should be reserved to the states.
How can the government control social issues "in order to foster moral behavior" without coercing individuals to follow whatever religious background the government chooses to select as its moral compass?

How does the government accomplish the above without usurping powers traditionally reserved to the states?

This isn't a measure of conservativism; it's the charter of the John Birch Society.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-09-2005 02:08 PM

Another $320 billion for old people
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
The Republican on NPR this morning explained that the original estimate included 2004 and 2005, which are years that do not have the benefits in place, wheras this estimate includes 2014 and 2015 where the benefit is fully funded.

He also explained that Medicaid cuts were going to help fund the prescription drug benefit. I'm sure that the sick poor will understand that covering (non-negotiated priced) viagra is more important than their health coverage.

Pete Stark's people were livid and their estimate is closer to a trillion.

eta stp
Remind me to buy more Merck. Damn, their lobbyists are good.

ltl/fb 02-09-2005 02:22 PM

Apologies to SS
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Moreover, how many people spend their entire career at minimum wage (assuming legal work)? Most semi-talented people start at the minimum but work their way up after a few years. since benefits are based on 35 best years (or something akin), unless a sizable portion of that time is at minimum wage, a change is not going to have much effect.
If we assume that the total wages paid rises b/c of the rise in min wage (i.e., the pay increases to those who remain employed outweigh the amounts not paid to people not hired) this actually argues in favor of RT's question -- more SS taxes would be paid, but benefits would not change much because the vast majority of people have benefits calculated based on years in which they are earning more than minimum wage, anyway.

Unless raising the minimum wage causes all other wages to go up (i.e., Level 10 employee is getting $7/hr instead of current min, so Level 9 employee has to get a raise of $0.50/hr so that they will still be making more, and so on) so much that it cancels out that effect.

Iiiiiinteresting. This is why I could never be a politician.

Shape Shifter 02-09-2005 02:31 PM

Strange Bedfellows
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
[note to self]This test thing is fun. Never knew it was so easy to get people worked up around here. There's a truce in the middle east, and no one posts on it, but post a couple of tests, which were solicited, mind you, and they all come out of the wood-work. [/note to self]
There are truces all the time in the ME. It's no longer newsworthy.

eta: Beat by Burger - doh!

sgtclub 02-09-2005 02:58 PM

Another $320 billion for old people
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Remind me to buy more Merck. Damn, their lobbyists are good.
I wouldn't do that right now . . . .

sgtclub 02-09-2005 03:03 PM

Strange Bedfellows
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
There are truces all the time in the ME. It's no longer newsworthy.

eta: Beat by Burger - doh!
The first truce post Araphat? Of course it's newsworthy! This one actually has a chance.

ltl/fb 02-09-2005 03:06 PM

Strange Bedfellows
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
The first truce post Araphat? Of course it's newsworthy! This one actually has a chance.
One could almost say so good it's phat.

Shape Shifter 02-09-2005 03:10 PM

Strange Bedfellows
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
The first truce post Araphat? Of course it's newsworthy! This one actually has a chance.
Hope you're right, but I suspect you overestimate Arafat's influence.

Tyrone Slothrop 02-09-2005 03:17 PM

Strange Bedfellows
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
The first truce post Araphat? Of course it's newsworthy! This one actually has a chance.
What do you think Sharon and Mazen will do to keep Hamas et al. from returning to violence?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-09-2005 03:18 PM

Strange Bedfellows
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
The first truce post Araphat? Of course it's newsworthy! This one actually has a chance.
In my mind the big news is that Abbas has cut a deal Hamas has opposed and is not signing on to. This rift on the Palestinian side is the major post-Arafat development.

sgtclub 02-09-2005 03:25 PM

Strange Bedfellows
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
In my mind the big news is that Abbas has cut a deal Hamas has opposed and is not signing on to. This rift on the Palestinian side is the major post-Arafat development.
I agree. We'll see whether Abbas has the stones and capability to handle Hamas (and the other groups as well).

sgtclub 02-09-2005 03:27 PM

Strange Bedfellows
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What do you think Sharon and Mazen will do to keep Hamas et al. from returning to violence?
I think this is something that Abbas needs to handle, with silent support from Sharon. In order for there to be peace, the Palis need to demonstrate that they can control there own. Interestingly, there is now some question as to whether Israel can do the same.

efs

Tyrone Slothrop 02-09-2005 03:36 PM

Strange Bedfellows
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
I think this is something that Abbas needs to handle, with silent support from Sharon. In order for there to be peace, the Palis need to demonstrate that they can control there own. Interestingly, there is now some question as to whether Israel can do the same.

efs
I think there are big questions as to whether both sides can do the same. Though there certainly is an opportunity right now.

Tyrone Slothrop 02-09-2005 04:51 PM

How to read a Bush budget
 
This post by Mark Schmitt (a/k/a The Decembrist) is required reading, given this week's budget news.
  • How to Read a Bush Budget -- A Rerun
    Last year at about this time, I cranked out a blog post in about half an hour very late at night that appears to have been the most useful of anything I've written. It was an inventory of all the basic little dishonesties that go into the president's budget and a skeptical readers' guide to the inevitably gullible press stories about the budget. I noticed someone make reference to it the other day in a comment on someone else's blog, so I thought maybe it's time to bring it out again. I could update the examples based on this year, but there's really no need to. It's the same story, different year.

    I should emphasize a point I should have made more strongly a year ago: These are the dishonesties in every modern president's budget. Some of them have reached a level of absurdity in the Bush world, and there are also special deceits in the current administration that would never have occurred to even the more I-am-not-a-crook occupants of the White House. Most notable among these is the decision to base its plan to "cut the deficit in half" on an inflated estimate of what the deficit would be last year, rather than what it actually was, thus making it easier to cut in half. And then, of course, there are the multi-trillion dollar dishonesties connected with Social Security.

    But this is a guide to the little billion-here-billion-there scams, as well as real budget cuts, that will litter the newspapers between now and the formal submission of the budget.

    _____________________________________________

    How to Read the Bush Budget (from January 2004)

    The strategic leaks have begun about what will be in the President's budget when it appears in a month or so. This is a period when the White House will use every day to create managed news on some aspect of the budget or the State of the Union address.

    From today's Times story, (Bush's Budget for 2005 Seeks to Rein In Domestic Costs), it's obvious that the topline story the administration wants to put out is just that: reining in domestic spending. This is a way of appealing to their own conservative base that is upset about the deficit and lack of restraint, and also a way of showing, at least on paper, that they can afford some of the additional spending, mostly through the tax code, that they will propose.

    All I've read so far is this story, so I don't have many specifics to go on (neither does anyone else). But as this month of strategic leaks begins, it's time for a reminder that presidential budgets are political documents -- they are not actually guides to what the government will really spend in the next fiscal year. And to understand this one as a political document, here is a brief guide to the four different kinds of cuts that will be in play.

    First, there will be some real cuts to programs whose congressional defenders are out of power and whose beneficiaries are not swing voters. An example from the Times story is probably the the President's proposal to restrict the number of housing vouchers available through local housing authorities. Twenty-three years ago, Reagan's budget director David Stockman drew a distinction between "weak claims" and "weak clients," promising to attack weak claims and protect the politically weak who had a strong claim to help from the government. Stockman didn't exactly keep that promise, but still, we look back at the Reagan years nostalgically now. There is no longer even a pretense of protecting those with a strong claim; this is all about going after those too politically weak to defend themselves, whether they need housing or not.

    But these programs have all been cut plenty, and there isn't much more room to cut the weak without running into what they want to avoid, which is, according to the article, "alienating politically influential constituencies." So beyond the real cuts, the tricks is to find things that appear to be cuts, sufficient to make the budget appear reasonably close to balance, while also paying for the additional spending, mostly through the tax code, that the President will propose. The cuts and the new spending have to add up, but just for one day.

    So the second type of "cut" in the budget will be proposals for cuts that will simply never happen and everyone knows it. No one even gets that worked up when the president proposes them. This category usually comprises the largest portion of the cuts in any president's budget. Here the secret is to go after strong clients, clients so strong that everyone knows no one will ever touch them. It's not clear from this first article which of the cuts fall into this category, but they will not be hard to spot in the actual budget. For example, most years presidents propose to cut Impact Aid, an education fund for school districts that have lots of federal employees or federal land exempt from local taxes. It's a wasteful program, but there are tens of thousands of Impact Aid school districts, their lobby is well-organized and relentless, and cutting it just isn't going to happen. But if you're OMB, and you need your numbers to add up today, there's no reason not to put it in. It saves a few hundred million on paper, and your job is done. Proposing to cut a defense project whose prime sponsor chairs the defense appropriations subcommittee is another good way to get some savings on paper. And the affected congressman probably doesn't even mind. It gives him a way to announce that he "saved" the project. The proposed cuts to veterans benefits mentioned in the Times probably fall in this category.

    Third, and a variation on the second, is the cut that the administration will itself reverse with great fanfare. Here's how it works: You propose some cut in the budget. It helps your numbers add up, which is to say, it offsets the cost of your tax cut or your spending on such urgent national needs as "encouraging sexual abstinence among teenagers." But weeks after the budget is announced, you grandly announce that you have reconsidered, and will put the matter off for further study. Everyone's happy. And you're not required to go back and find another cut to replace the first one. The Times article mentions one cut on which this process seems to have already begun: it reports that "the Pentagon has been considering a new proposal to increase pharmacy co-payments for [military] retirees," but also that the indignant Military Officers Association believed it had won a concession from the Pentagon to study the issue for another year. Sometimes you don't judge this right, and have to withdraw the proposal even before you use it to make your numbers.

    Finally, there is the kind of gimmick that can be used to reduce apparent spending on entitlement programs, which is where the real money is. Here the trick is to propose some sort of inoffensive policy change that might lead to a chain of events that would reduce spending on some federal program. And then get the Congressional Budget Office to "score" the change as producing a budget savings. Whether it actually does or not is a matter for another day. There's a great example of this in the Times story:

    Federal officials said they would also require families seeking housing aid to help the government obtain more accurate information on their earnings. As a condition of receiving aid, families would have to consent to the disclosure of income data reported to a national directory of newly hired employees. The directory was created under a 1996 law to help enforce child-support obligations.

    (As a congressional staffer, I drafted the bill that created that directory of new hires, so this is familiar territory.) I'm sure this is a perfectly good idea, and it's hard to argue with getting accurate information about people's eligibility for programs. Some analyst at the Congressional Budget Office is going to be handed this proposal and told to score it. "I don't know" is not an option, so he will produce a number for the savings this provision will produce. But what if the income information reported through the directory doesn't really change the criteria of who is eligible? What if other people with low incomes appear to replace those who are disqualified through use of the database? What if it takes longer than expected to add income data into the database, and set up privacy protections? And on and on. The connection between the small and inoffensive act of including income in the database, and actually reducing public housing costs, is rather tenuous. But as long as you can get the number you want from CBO, the reality doesn't matter one bit.

    If you can spot these gimmicks, you might be protected from the baloney that will fall from the sky every day from now until the budget is released at the beginning of February.

Gattigap 02-09-2005 05:15 PM

Poland, forgotten
 
Bush demotes Polish president. To avoid problem, should've stuck with "Stretch."

Tyrone Slothrop 02-09-2005 05:56 PM

Question:

If the treasury bonds held by the Social Security trust fund are worthless IOUs, how are we going to borrow the money to set up private accounts?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 02-09-2005 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Question:

If the treasury bonds held by the Social Security trust fund are worthless IOUs, how are we going to borrow the money to set up private accounts?
They're not worthless. That, or a lot of Japanese holding T-bills are going to be pretty disappointed.

Presumably as a budget matter, they'll take the costs of PRAs out of the social security surplus, which will as a result accumulate fewer IOUs over the next few years. Where Congress gets the money that the lack of giving those IOUs instead of borrowing is, well, a good question (borrowing or taxes, for those who don't want to read ahead).

Tyrone Slothrop 02-09-2005 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
They're not worthless. That, or a lot of Japanese holding T-bills are going to be pretty disappointed.
Nevertheless, President Bush clears the way for default:
  • Some in our country think that Social Security is a trust fund -- in other words, there's a pile of money being accumulated. That's just simply not true. The money -- payroll taxes going into the Social Security are spent. They're spent on benefits and they're spent on government programs. There is no trust. We're on the ultimate pay-as-you-go system -- what goes in comes out. And so, starting in 2018, what's going in -- what's coming out is greater than what's going in. It says we've got a problem. And we'd better start dealing with it now. The longer we wait, the harder it is to fix the problem.

TPM

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 02-09-2005 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Nevertheless, President Bush clears the way for default:
[list]Some in our country think that Social Security is a trust fund -- in other words, there's a pile of money being accumulated.]
Yeah, default. There's a viable option.

But, he's right, if it were truly a trust, then the trustees would be the easiest mark ever for a breach of fiduciary duty suit.

sgtclub 02-09-2005 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Yeah, default. There's a viable option.

But, he's right, if it were truly a trust, then the trustees would be the easiest mark ever for a breach of fiduciary duty suit.
Maybe France would agree to bail us out.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-09-2005 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Maybe France would agree to bail us out.
Doesn't Halliburton owe us one?

Tyrone Slothrop 02-09-2005 07:39 PM

flip-flop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
President Bush clears the way for default:
  • Some in our country think that Social Security is a trust fund -- in other words, there's a pile of money being accumulated. That's just simply not true. The money -- payroll taxes going into the Social Security are spent. They're spent on benefits and they're spent on government programs. There is no trust. We're on the ultimate pay-as-you-go system -- what goes in comes out. And so, starting in 2018, what's going in -- what's coming out is greater than what's going in. It says we've got a problem. And we'd better start dealing with it now. The longer we wait, the harder it is to fix the problem.

TPM
When he was trying to get elected for the first time, Bush was all about respecting the integrity of the Social Security Trust Fund:
  • "First, unspent surpluses in Washington, D.C. will be spent, you mark my words, you leave money sitting around the table in Washington, Washington politicians will spend it. Now, I believe there's enough money. If you lockbox the payroll taxes, there is $2 trillion to make sure the Social Security system is safe and secure-- $2 trillion. I intend to lockbox the payroll taxes and spend them only on what they're supposed to be spent on, and that's Social Security."

    "Governor Bush supports lockboxing $ 2.4 trillion to save and strengthen Social Security."

TPM archives

Now he's pretending it doesn't exist. But Kerry was the flip-flopper.

Hank Chinaski 02-09-2005 07:43 PM

flip-flop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
When he was trying to get elected for the first time, Bush was all about respecting the integrity of the Social Security Trust Fund:
  • "First, unspent surpluses in Washington, D.C. will be spent, you mark my words, you leave money sitting around the table in Washington, Washington politicians will spend it. Now, I believe there's enough money. If you lockbox the payroll taxes, there is $2 trillion to make sure the Social Security system is safe and secure-- $2 trillion. I intend to lockbox the payroll taxes and spend them only on what they're supposed to be spent on, and that's Social Security."

    "Governor Bush supports lockboxing $ 2.4 trillion to save and strengthen Social Security."

TPM archives

Now he's pretending it doesn't exist. But Kerry was the flip-flopper.
You are personally killing this board.

RT, next year when people who owe me pay you, none of it is earmarked for Politics. If Politics is shut down, so be it. I cannot support this type posting.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-09-2005 07:50 PM

flip-flop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
You are personally killing this board.

RT, next year when people who owe me pay you, none of it is earmarked for Politics. If Politics is shut down, so be it. I cannot support this type posting.
Let's add this to our conservative list: Do you ignore your own prior statements and commitments?

Ah, but I forget, Hank went for the equality thing, so he's really a liberal. I'm the conservative, church going one.

Hank Chinaski 02-09-2005 07:53 PM

flip-flop
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Let's add this to our conservative list: Do you ignore your own prior statements and commitments?

Ah, but I forget, Hank went for the equality thing, so he's really a liberal. I'm the conservative, church going one.
this is weird. my ignore list doesn't work on a MAC!

Tyrone Slothrop 02-09-2005 09:13 PM

Why Africa is fucked up.
 
This is a very interesting account, and I post it for club, who has wondered why foreign aid is so often ineffectual. No good answers, but a good story about Sierra Leone.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 02-10-2005 12:13 PM

We'll try to stay serene and calm
 
So, does Bush take any responsibility for North Korea getting the bomb on his watch, or is it all Clinton's fault?

Hank Chinaski 02-10-2005 12:16 PM

We'll try to stay serene and calm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
So, does Bush take any responsibility for North Korea getting the bomb on his watch, or is it all Clinton's fault?
w/o touching your question- how is this news different than what we knew a year ago? i mean we knew they had a bomb then right?

Did you just call me Coltrane? 02-10-2005 12:19 PM

We'll try to stay serene and calm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
So, does Bush take any responsibility for North Korea getting the bomb on his watch, or is it all Clinton's fault?
He sure hasn't taken responsibilty for 9/11. But that was Clinton's fault too, right?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...us/sept_11_faa

(Spree: The Federal Aviation Administration received repeated warnings in the months prior to Sept. 11, 2001, about al-Qaida and its desire to attack airlines, according to a previously undisclosed report by the commission that investigated the terror attacks)

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 02-10-2005 12:22 PM

We'll try to stay serene and calm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
So, does Bush take any responsibility for North Korea getting the bomb on his watch, or is it all Clinton's fault?
uh, "claim" you mean, right? Unless they developed the bomb in just the last four years, which is pretty rapid, I don't think Clinton escapes, given he fed them pizza for 8 years while they stayed up late designing missiles and a bomb.

Hank Chinaski 02-10-2005 12:25 PM

We'll try to stay serene and calm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
He sure hasn't taken responsibilty for 9/11. But that was Clinton's fault too, right?

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...us/sept_11_faa

(Spree: The Federal Aviation Administration received repeated warnings in the months prior to Sept. 11, 2001, about al-Qaida and its desire to attack airlines, according to a previously undisclosed report by the commission that investigated the terror attacks)
How is this different? We knew this too correct?

And Coltrane- answer this- what should have been done in response to the warnings? Factor the following into your answer- The warnings had been going on for years and the Dems controlled Congress. Also, assume that AFTER 9/11 it took almost a year to get an aviation security package throught the Democratically controlled Senate.

And as to who was "at fault" for 9/11- there was a referendum on that last November. People decided, maybe better not to have a Dem president for a little while longer.

sgtclub 02-10-2005 12:32 PM

We'll try to stay serene and calm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
So, does Bush take any responsibility for North Korea getting the bomb on his watch, or is it all Clinton's fault?
You have got to be kidding me.

Did you just call me Coltrane? 02-10-2005 12:32 PM

We'll try to stay serene and calm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
How is this different? We knew this too correct?

And Coltrane- answer this- what should have been done in response to the warnings? Factor the following into your answer- The warnings had been going on for years and the Dems controlled Congress. Also, assume that AFTER 9/11 it took almost a year to get an aviation security package throught the Democratically controlled Senate.
I'm just stirring the soup. I don't think 9/11 could have been prevented by Clinton or Bush. And I don't blame either one for 9/11. I have consistently said this. It was going to happen no matter who was president.

Also, I have never given Clinton credit for the economic boom of the '90s, and I refuse to give Bush credit for the current alleged economic recovery. People who do the former or the latter need to take Macro Econ 101 again.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 02-10-2005 12:34 PM

We'll try to stay serene and calm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Did you just call me Coltrane?
He sure hasn't taken responsibilty for 9/11. But that was Clinton's fault too, right?

If you scroll down in the article, I think it says exactly that:
  • A proposed rule to improve passenger screening and other security measures ordered by Congress in 1996 had been held up by the Office of Management and Budget and was still not in effect when the attacks occurred, according to the FAA.

The problem the FAA had is that it had no good means to communicate or act on the information it had. Are you expecting Bush to have had that inplace in the first 3 months after taking office?

sgtclub 02-10-2005 12:38 PM

Will Diplomacy in Iran Work?
 
So it likes like the Adminstration has given the EU a lot of leeway in negotiations with Iran. Will they be successful, or is the WH letting them hang?

Did you just call me Coltrane? 02-10-2005 12:39 PM

We'll try to stay serene and calm
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski

And as to who was "at fault" for 9/11- there was a referendum on that last November. People decided, maybe better not to have a Dem president for a little while longer.
I agree that 9/11 was the deciding factor in the election. Or better stated, irrational fear caused by color-coded terrorism levels etc. was the deciding factor in the election. Scare middle America shitless so they vote for you. Bravo.

Where did those levels go?

To miquote King Edward Longshanks in Braveheart:

"The trouble with middle America is that it's full of middle Americans."


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