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Replaced_Texan 09-24-2007 07:12 PM

Solidarity!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Many of these companies have taken a 180 degree uturn on universal healthcare and government provided health care. They can't afford to cover their own workes so they are starting to like some of the Dems ideas of government help. Where corporate america and the doctors (AMA) were united against UHC now only the AMA and the drug companies are against it. It is turning into a battle royale within the Republican party, and I believe the inevitable result will be some sort of national UHC.
2, though the insurance companies are also none too thrilled about it either. The hospitals desperately, desperately want it, because they're going broke having to cover so much uncompensated care.

Gattigap 09-24-2007 07:16 PM

Solidarity!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
2, though the insurance companies are also none too thrilled about it either. The hospitals desperately, desperately want it, because they're going broke having to cover so much uncompensated care.
Apropos of that, the LAT ran an article on Sunday explaining that about two dozen Southland hospitals are in financial straights for this very reason. Apolcalypse to follow.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-24-2007 07:17 PM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
That's not necessarily true. He may be a foreign leader, but he's one who holds ideas that are wildly out of touch with history and reality. Your argument suggests that an appearance by Gallagher would per se improve the quality of discourse on the arts.

All columbia has done is lend legitimacy to a batshit crazy dictator, legitimacy which is not befitting the quality of his speech or intellect.
Columbia doesn't give him any legitimacy at all. He gets that in Iran. Columbia has a role in deciding whether Gallagher is an artist, but it does not have a role in deciding who runs Iran. A. gets invited to Columbia because he *is* the leader of Iran, not because his ideas about history and reality are meritorious in their own right.

Tyrone Slothrop 09-24-2007 07:18 PM

Solidarity!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Many of these companies have taken a 180 degree uturn on universal healthcare and government provided health care. They can't afford to cover their own workes so they are starting to like some of the Dems ideas of government help. Where corporate america and the doctors (AMA) were united against UHC now only the AMA and the drug companies are against it. It is turning into a battle royale within the Republican party, and I believe the inevitable result will be some sort of national UHC.
These companies are operating at a competitive disadvantage relative to their foreign competitors, and their albatross is our health-care system.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 09-24-2007 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Before I attended a Catholic school, I did [n't] realize how devout one could be as a Catholic and completely ignore the rules.
You're like a modern-day Martin Luther.

ltl/fb 09-24-2007 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
You're like a modern-day Martin Luther.
There were typos negating entire arguments in those dealy-boppers he nailed to the doors?

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 09-24-2007 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
There were typos negating entire arguments in those dealy-boppers he nailed to the doors?
Probably. Gutenberg hadn't invented white-out.

Spanky 09-24-2007 07:27 PM

Solidarity!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
2, though the insurance companies are also none too thrilled about it either. The hospitals desperately, desperately want it, because they're going broke having to cover so much uncompensated care.
Yes that is true about the insurance companies. If in my hand I am holding the Drug companies, insurance companies and the AMA, and in your hand you are holding every other large company in America, I have a pair of sevens and you are holding a royal flush.

Corporate America wants, the majority of people want it, the hospitals want it and the entire Democrat party wants it. Game over.

By the way, on the on going debate about medical care in the US a week ago I was hanging out with Less and got head butted by drunken Irishman who broke my nose. The ambulance picked me up and took me to the nastiest hospital in San Francisco (located in the Tenderloin) and I got amazing treatment. My private physician who took out my stitches four days later said the ER doctor did an excellent job. I was put in a private room that was clean and I got lots of attention.. The doctor told me that they mostly received homeless people and drug addicts in this hospital, but it still was incredibly clean. Better treatment than I ever received in England, France, Italy or Japan. The hospital I went to in England was in the burbs near Gatwick and it was dirty and the doctor was a moron. In the worst part of San Francisco I got A-1 service. Ask Less about it, he was with me.

Spanky 09-24-2007 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
You're like a modern-day Martin Luther.
But unlike Martin Luther I reveled in the hypocrisy.

Gattigap 09-24-2007 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Probably. Gutenberg hadn't invented white-out.
...

2. The word can[not] be properly understood as referring to the sacrament of penance, i.e. confession and satisfaction, as administered by the clergy.

...

5. The pope has [neither the] will [nor the] power to remit any penalties beyond those imposed either at his own discretion or by canon law.

Spanky 09-24-2007 07:33 PM

Social Conservatives are at it again in the Golden State
 
Here they go again: These guys are just incredible.


Banned Books Week


Banned Books Week
By Raija Curchill

Banned Books Week promotes every person's freedom to express opinions, and to access all opinions, even when "unorthodox or unpopular." It is sponsored by the American Library Association (ALA) and begins on Saturday, September 29. Intellectual freedom is a wonderful part of the American way. This week dealing with censorship, however, is misleading. Not only is "censorship" a routine aspect of every librarian's work, but the titles on ALA's Most Frequently Challenged Books of 2006 list are shockingly inappropriate for their target audiences.

ALA defines censorship as changing an item's accessibility, based on its content, when the decision is made by a governing authority. Librarians routinely make such decisions on the front end: what materials they will, and will not, introduce into their libraries. Yet requiring minors to get parental permission before borrowing R rated movies is "censorship." Restricting children's access to pornography is "censorship." ALA encourages librarians to maintain the "confidentiality" of young adults, which in publishing terms, means 12 through 18 year olds. This makes parenting harder. It is censorship, though, that Banned Books Week calls "harmful."

There is a crucial difference between suppressing free speech and determining what is appropriate for schoolyard reading. Every title on ALA's Most Frequently Challenged Books list is used in schools and/or written for school aged students. They were challenged for content: sexual content, occult/Satanism, drug use, violence, and more. Consider three examples:

· And Tango Makes Three, written for children aged four to eight, is based on a true story about two male penguins and their baby Tango. It teaches that homosexual families are natural and good.

· The Earth, My Butt, and Other Big Round Things is written for 12-15 year olds. The ALA's Booklist describes its protagonist: "She wants a boyfriend, but she settles for Froggy Welsh, who comes over on Mondays to grope her." Around its sexual theme, this book discusses family dysfunction, self-mutilation, female masturbation, and date rape.

· The Perks of Being a Wallflower chronicles the maturation of Charlie, who was sexually abused as a child. He smokes pot to gain friends. He drops acid. According to Insight Magazine, the book includes boy-dog sex, man-boy sex, anal sex between boys, male masturbation, and female masturbation.

Challenging a book does not prevent adults from reading it. This is about who shapes the morals of American students. Parents deserve support in their efforts to protect children from unsuitable content. According to ALA, the "positive message" of Banned Books Week is that "most challenges are unsuccessful." These books are regularly "retained in the school curriculum or library collection." Yet when ALA frames Banned Books Week in terms of censoring ideas, it is not promoting the American way. It is undermining conscientious parents across the nation.

For Banned Books Week this year, consider asking your library about its policies on pornographic and R rated materials. If you enjoy a pro-family book that is not in your library, you can make a purchase request. Do your part to support families in your community.

American Library Association Banned Books Week

ALA's Most Frequently Challenged Books of 2006


Raija Churchill, a senior at Patrick Henry College, is an intern filling the position of Research Associate. Her work for CRI includes a booklet informing parents about what children encounter in public schools, from vaccinations to teaching on Islam. It will show parents their rights-and equip them to respond. Other research includes a comparison of the political parties' values on issues that impact California families.

Raija's prior research for the Congressional Pro-Life Caucus and national organizations detailed the illegal use of federal funds in abortion programs. Under former TIME senior correspondent Dr. David Aikman, she researched legal and human rights issues in intercountry adoption. Her volunteer work in disaster preparation has been recognized by the American Red Cross and others.

Gattigap 09-24-2007 07:34 PM

Solidarity!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky

By the way, on the on going debate about medical care in the US a week ago I was hanging out with Less and got head butted by drunken Irishman who broke my nose. The ambulance picked me up and took me to the nastiest hospital in San Francisco (located in the Tenderloin) and I got amazing treatment. My private physician who took out my stitches four days later said the ER doctor did an excellent job. I was put in a private room that was clean and I got lots of attention.. The doctor told me that they mostly received homeless people and drug addicts in this hospital, but it still was incredibly clean. Better treatment than I ever received in England, France, Italy or Japan. The hospital I went to in England was in the burbs near Gatwick and it was dirty and the doctor was a moron. In the worst part of San Francisco I got A-1 service. Ask Less about it, he was with me.
Goes to show, folks, if you're going to get head-butted by a drunken Irishman, much better for it to be in San Francisco than in the slums of Gatwick, Paris, Milan or Tokyo.

(No word on New York.)

Spanky 09-24-2007 07:35 PM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Of course it's improved. Columbia students get the chance to hear and see a foreign leader. The debate about this episode seems to assume that Columbia students are intellectual kindergarteners who are at risk of subscribing to these ideas if they're exposed to them. This is a university. Graduate students in foreign relations and Middle Eastern studies would surely want to see this guy speak, even if he is -- especially if he is -- a batshit crazy dictator.
I have to go with Ty on this one. Let the guy speak. Shows we are better thanthey are. I would love to attend that speach and be able to ask questions.

Spanky 09-24-2007 07:39 PM

Solidarity!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Goes to show, folks, if you're going to get head-butted by a drunken Irishman, much better for it to be in San Francisco than in the slums of Gatwick, Paris, Milan or Tokyo.

(No word on New York.)
No it is better to be in the slums of San Franciso than in the nice areas of Gatwick, Paris, Florence or Tokyo.

LessinSF 09-24-2007 08:07 PM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
That's not necessarily true. He may be a foreign leader, but he's one who holds ideas that are wildly out of touch with history and reality. Your argument suggests that an appearance by Gallagher would per se improve the quality of discourse on the arts.

All columbia has done is lend legitimacy to a batshit crazy dictator, legitimacy which is not befitting the quality of his speech or intellect.
Bullshit. I admire the guy, in a sense. He and Jong-Il are the only "third-world" leaders with the balls to say "If you can have nukes, I can too - my country is just as valid as yours."

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-24-2007 08:12 PM

Solidarity!
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky

Corporate America wants, the majority of people want it, the hospitals want it and the entire Democrat party wants it. Game over.
And we'd already have it if only people listened to Hilary!

Will you be leading Hil's efforts in yonder Valley?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 09-24-2007 08:16 PM

Social Conservatives are at it again in the Golden State
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
Here they go again: These guys are just incredible.


Banned Books Week


Banned Books Week
By Raija Curchill

Banned Books Week promotes every person's freedom to express opinions, and to access all opinions, even when "unorthodox or unpopular." It is sponsored by the American Library Association (ALA) and begins on Saturday, September 29. Intellectual freedom is a wonderful part of the American way. This week dealing with censorship, however, is misleading. Not only is "censorship" a routine aspect of every librarian's work, but the titles on ALA's Most Frequently Challenged Books of 2006 list are shockingly inappropriate for their target audiences.

ALA defines censorship as changing an item's accessibility, based on its content, when the decision is made by a governing authority. Librarians routinely make such decisions on the front end: what materials they will, and will not, introduce into their libraries. Yet requiring minors to get parental permission before borrowing R rated movies is "censorship." Restricting children's access to pornography is "censorship." ALA encourages librarians to maintain the "confidentiality" of young adults, which in publishing terms, means 12 through 18 year olds. This makes parenting harder. It is censorship, though, that Banned Books Week calls "harmful."

There is a crucial difference between suppressing free speech and determining what is appropriate for schoolyard reading. Every title on ALA's Most Frequently Challenged Books list is used in schools and/or written for school aged students. They were challenged for content: sexual content, occult/Satanism, drug use, violence, and more. Consider three examples:

· And Tango Makes Three, written for children aged four to eight, is based on a true story about two male penguins and their baby Tango. It teaches that homosexual families are natural and good.

· The Earth, My Butt, and Other Big Round Things is written for 12-15 year olds. The ALA's Booklist describes its protagonist: "She wants a boyfriend, but she settles for Froggy Welsh, who comes over on Mondays to grope her." Around its sexual theme, this book discusses family dysfunction, self-mutilation, female masturbation, and date rape.

· The Perks of Being a Wallflower chronicles the maturation of Charlie, who was sexually abused as a child. He smokes pot to gain friends. He drops acid. According to Insight Magazine, the book includes boy-dog sex, man-boy sex, anal sex between boys, male masturbation, and female masturbation.

Challenging a book does not prevent adults from reading it. This is about who shapes the morals of American students. Parents deserve support in their efforts to protect children from unsuitable content. According to ALA, the "positive message" of Banned Books Week is that "most challenges are unsuccessful." These books are regularly "retained in the school curriculum or library collection." Yet when ALA frames Banned Books Week in terms of censoring ideas, it is not promoting the American way. It is undermining conscientious parents across the nation.

For Banned Books Week this year, consider asking your library about its policies on pornographic and R rated materials. If you enjoy a pro-family book that is not in your library, you can make a purchase request. Do your part to support families in your community.

American Library Association Banned Books Week

ALA's Most Frequently Challenged Books of 2006


Raija Churchill, a senior at Patrick Henry College, is an intern filling the position of Research Associate. Her work for CRI includes a booklet informing parents about what children encounter in public schools, from vaccinations to teaching on Islam. It will show parents their rights-and equip them to respond. Other research includes a comparison of the political parties' values on issues that impact California families.

Raija's prior research for the Congressional Pro-Life Caucus and national organizations detailed the illegal use of federal funds in abortion programs. Under former TIME senior correspondent Dr. David Aikman, she researched legal and human rights issues in intercountry adoption. Her volunteer work in disaster preparation has been recognized by the American Red Cross and others.
I can always trust your buddies in the Republican party to keep that Radical Librarian Democrats in line!

SlaveNoMore 09-24-2007 08:35 PM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

taxwonk
I think that Columbia's adminstration was thinking far more of the notoriety and the attention his appearance would bring to the school than it was thinking of the importance of free speech.
After the Minutemen incident. Columbia cannot be cheapened any more than it already has.

Oliver_Wendell_Ramone 09-24-2007 08:48 PM

Double Nickels on the Dime
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
After the Minutemen incident. Columbia cannot be cheapened any more than it already has.
The allowed this Iranian asshole to speak, but wouldn't let D Boone play? Bastards.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-24-2007 10:25 PM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Propaganda? What is the harm to him speaking at Columbia as opposed to the University of Tehran? Don't we show how strong we are in letting him speak here? The reaction to him makes it seem like we're worried people might hear him and be convinced. If we might go to war with him -- and what a stupid idea that would be -- all the more reason to let him speak.
2 We look like idiots. We let Krushchev speak. We let Castro speak. Why not this guy?

Last I heard you couldn't gain insight into your enemy ignoring him. What other than a learning experience could his speech be? Really? WTF is the matter with this country. We're so high on our fucking childish moral certainties in this country it's embarrassing. This guy's an awful guy, but ignoring him is possibly only sure fire unproductive and probably counterproductive reaction we could have to his appearance. He's the best add against his kind. I say let him put a mini-series on PBS and give him a talk show.

taxwonk 09-24-2007 10:29 PM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

Originally posted by LessinSF
Bullshit. I admire the guy, in a sense. He and Jong-Il are the only "third-world" leaders with the balls to say "If you can have nukes, I can too - my country is just as valid as yours."
I don't have a problem with that, per se. The fact that someone totally batshit crazy has nukes bugs me. It's the "kill the Jews and fags and every one who isn't just like me" thing that bugs me.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-24-2007 10:33 PM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

Originally posted by LessinSF
Bullshit. I admire the guy, in a sense. He and Jong-Il are the only "third-world" leaders with the balls to say "If you can have nukes, I can too - my country is just as valid as yours."
2. Who the fuck are we to say he's got no right to have nukes? We can bomb him to stop him from having nukes, but we're deluded idiots to say Iran has no right to have whatever weapons it wants to have. Considering Iran's list of powerful enemies, the country would be batshit crazy NOT to seek nukes.

I've never been comfortable with the term "Sunni Insurgent" either. They ran the country. We bombed it and took it over and they're the "insurgents" for trying to win back the power they had? WTF? WE, not Iraqis fighting us, are the aggressors in a foreign land.

This is an issue of picking sides. We pick our side because we want our soldiers to succeed. But we're not on the side of good or evil. We're on the side of our interests. Nothing more, nothing less. And the "good guy v. bad guy" fiction so many idiots in this country slap onto these geopolitical strategy moves, which Iraq is, is just so ludicrous.

It's the same flawed moron mindset that calls victims of any attack "heros," even if they did nothing save being victimized.

sebastian_dangerfield 09-24-2007 10:37 PM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
I don't have a problem with that, per se. The fact that someone totally batshit crazy has nukes bugs me. It's the "kill the Jews and fags and every one who isn't just like me" thing that bugs me.
Travel through the rural parts of the country. 50 miles outside any city you can find plenty of folks who hate Jews, Papists, Blacks, queers, etc... But you're right about the nukes. That's not a good thing. If a megachurch in Mississippi were to arm itself wirth nukes, I'd move to Anchorage.

Atticus Grinch 09-24-2007 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
In what might be the most rapid fulfillment of Godwin's Law on record, some compared Ahmadinejad to Hitler. "Why are they inviting the Persian Hitler to Columbia?" said Columbia alumnus and conservative writer David Horowitz. "Would Columbia have invited Hitler to speak?" asked others.
I only get the Chronicle, so it's possible I missed the part where Iran killed six million Jews. Or has denying the Holocaust become morally equivalent to having been personally responsible for it?

If it's the latter, I need to have a heart to heart with my friends who are PDs.

Hank Chinaski 09-24-2007 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
I only get the Chronicle, so it's possible I missed the part where Iran killed six million Jews. Or has denying the Holocaust become morally equivalent to having been personally responsible for it?

If it's the latter, I need to have a heart to heart with my friends who are PDs.
did you start drinking lots while you were gone?

hitler gave the order to kill the 6 million. he had access to 6 million plus the tools.

your guy has given the order to kill the jews, but they're stil too far away. Sebby and Less think we should let him have the tools to kill them far away.

I see little difference.

LessinSF 09-25-2007 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
did you start drinking lots while you were gone?

hitler gave the order to kill the 6 million. he had access to 6 million plus the tools.

your guy has given the order to kill the jews, but they're stil too far away. Sebby and Less think we should let him have the tools to kill them far away.

I see little difference.
I know you know this is bullshit. Neither of us want him to have nukes. I just cannot come up with a fair rationale (other than self-interest) for why other sovereign nations can't join the club.

Atticus Grinch 09-25-2007 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I see little difference.
The last guy you equivalized to Hitler turned out to be pathetic and dangerous to no one other than those who repeatedly elected him. You think I'm going to fall for it again?

Call me when the real Hitler returns. By which I mean never, because that motherfucker's got to be over 100 by now.

Hank Chinaski 09-25-2007 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by LessinSF
I know you know this is bullshit. Neither of us want him to have nukes. I just cannot come up with a fair rationale (other than self-interest) for why other sovereign nations can't join the club.
self-interest is a good one though. I was watching the Ken Burns thing tonight. It was pretty interesting. we killed lots of French and Italian citizens to "liberate" them. We supposedly did bombings to German cities that were much worse than the blitz. In a sense wasn't that war just about self interest?

Hell Sebastian thinks you have to go 50 miles outside a city to find people who hate fags. Detroit voted 70-30 % to ban gan marriages. I'm talking about the inner city of Detroit. it voted 90% for Kerry the same night.

All people are as tribal as when Neanderthal fought cro-magnon. just because you all get soy latte instead of mastodon blood to get you going in the morning doesn't change it.

Hank Chinaski 09-25-2007 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Atticus Grinch
The last guy you equivalized to Hitler turned out to be pathetic and dangerous to no one other than those who repeatedly elected him. You think I'm going to fall for it again?
ty was not elected. slave gave him the keys. but thanks for playing.

LessinSF 09-25-2007 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
self-interest is a good one though. ...
You will get no argument from this real-politikian.

sgtclub 09-25-2007 01:00 AM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
2 We look like idiots. We let Krushchev speak. We let Castro speak. Why not this guy?

Last I heard you couldn't gain insight into your enemy ignoring him. What other than a learning experience could his speech be? Really? WTF is the matter with this country. We're so high on our fucking childish moral certainties in this country it's embarrassing. This guy's an awful guy, but ignoring him is possibly only sure fire unproductive and probably counterproductive reaction we could have to his appearance. He's the best add against his kind. I say let him put a mini-series on PBS and give him a talk show.
It has nothing to do with morals, and I understand the argument of letting him hang himself. But unfortunately the Arab world does not live by the same belief system that we do, and I fear that the appearance will be used to prop him up and legitimize him in the Arab world in the same way that allowing him to visit the towers would have.

Were you in favor of allowing him to visit the towers?

sgtclub 09-25-2007 01:09 AM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
2. Who the fuck are we to say he's got no right to have nukes? We can bomb him to stop him from having nukes, but we're deluded idiots to say Iran has no right to have whatever weapons it wants to have. Considering Iran's list of powerful enemies, the country would be batshit crazy NOT to seek nukes.

Agreed. And we, and more pointedly Israel, would be batshit crazy to allow it to happen. But they will get them, as will many other countries, so our only hope is that the people who run those countries value life more than power. Which is why I'm with Howard Stern on this one - we need to be exporting porn, prostitution, booze and drugs throughout the world. It's pretty hard to think about blowing up your neighbor when you've got a head full of whiskey and a couple of pros on your lap.

Atticus Grinch 09-25-2007 03:09 AM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
But unfortunately the Arab world does not live by the same belief system that we do, and I fear that the appearance will be used to prop him up and legitimize him in the Arab world in the same way that allowing him to visit the towers would have.
Pick a country you think is corrupt and debauched. Say, France. Which speaking engagements there would prop President Bush up and legitimize him in your eyes?

Mostly I'm posting this because I have faith it will provoke Hank to post something funny.

Not Bob 09-25-2007 09:09 AM

Batshit Crazy Dictator In NY, Today's Version
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
It has nothing to do with morals, and I understand the argument of letting him hang himself. But unfortunately the Arab world does not live by the same belief system that we do, and I fear that the appearance will be used to prop him up and legitimize him in the Arab world in the same way that allowing him to visit the towers would have.

Were you in favor of allowing him to visit the towers?
He's already speaking to the General Assembly at the UN -- I doubt that adding Columbia University would add to his prestige in the Arab or Persian or Islamic world. (Whether this is a good idea for Columbia, in light of its own issues with free speech and New York politics, is a different issue.)

And I would let anyone go to Ground Zero to lay a wreath. As for having an Iranian president do the honors, I read somewhere that there were somber candlelit vigils in Iran after 9/11, unlike Penske's cheering Palestinians.

No one should be allowed to give speeches there.

Not Bob 09-25-2007 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
self-interest is a good one though. I was watching the Ken Burns thing tonight. It was pretty interesting. we killed lots of French and Italian citizens to "liberate" them. We supposedly did bombings to German cities that were much worse than the blitz. In a sense wasn't that war just about self interest?
Pssst -- which side was Italy on until Patton and Montgomery landed on the boot? As for the Germans, we've all read Vonnegut, so we know about Dresden. And as for what happened to the Japanese, you don't have to even mention the atomic bombs -- the firebombing of Tokyo in March 1945 killed more civilians than the second atomic bomb did in Nagasaki

WWII about self-interest? Sure, if by "self-interest" you mean "self-preservation."

Hank Chinaski 09-25-2007 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
As for the Germans, we've all read Vonnegut, so we know about Dresden.
I'm just now getting used to the idea that blogger's opinions can be cited as fact. You do realize a novel is set up as fiction on it's face, right?

BTW, if my novel does get published, the character that you wil all recognize as Shape shifter, the part about the sheep when he was growing up, i have no knowledge that it actually happened.

Not Bob 09-25-2007 10:22 AM

Warren Pease . . . is Warren Pease present?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I'm just now getting used to the idea that blogger's opinions can be cited as fact. You do realize a novel is set up as fiction on it's face, right?
So, Napolean never invaded Russia? My bad.

taxwonk 09-25-2007 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
I'm just now getting used to the idea that blogger's opinions can be cited as fact. You do realize a novel is set up as fiction on it's face, right?

BTW, if my novel does get published, the character that you wil all recognize as Shape shifter, the part about the sheep when he was growing up, i have no knowledge that it actually happened.
You do realize that Dresden is a real city and that it was actually firebombed in WWII, right? Thousands of innocent men, women, and children died there.

I'm not making any moral judgments here, other than to point out the silliness of your post, and I want to go on record as saying that silliness, or even stupidity, are not immoral in my eyes.

Hank Chinaski 09-25-2007 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by taxwonk
You do realize that Dresden is a real city and that it was actually firebombed in WWII, right? Thousands of innocent men, women, and children died there.
I don't know how long a thought sticks in your brain, not long i fear, but go back and read my post that bob responded to.

my point was that we probably shouldn't take Vonnegut's word. do you believe Billy Pilgrim and Montana wildwhatever are still screwing in some extraterrestrial zoo somewhere?

Hint: there is probably pretty convincing evidence of a convincing quality for one of these and not for the other.

Hank Chinaski 09-25-2007 10:32 AM

Warren Pease . . . is Warren Pease present?
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Not Bob
So, Napolean never invaded Russia? My bad.
you know what i meant. the problem with you making posts like this is that your side has some dull-normal people posting here and you owe them to not mislead them intellectually this way. they trust you to be intellectually honest.


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