LawTalkers - The babyjesuschristsuperstar on Board: filling the moral void of Clinton’s legacy

LawTalkers (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/index.php)

- Politics (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=16)

- - The babyjesuschristsuperstar on Board: filling the moral void of Clinton’s legacy (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=719)

Tory! Tory! Tory!

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Good thing all those Baldwins and other hacks didn't move to Canada, eh?

If you're going to start in with the race-baiting again, take it to the FB where it belongs.

Tally! Tally! Tally!

Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
If you're going to start in with the race-baiting again, take it to the FB where it belongs.

What do you think about Harry Belafonte?

Tory! Tory! Tory!

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Good thing all those Baldwins and other hacks didn't move to Canada, eh?

was same sex marriage a big issue?

Tory! Tory! Tory!

Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
was same sex marriage a big issue?

No, even the Conservatives support it there.

Why are they hiding the news?

The sad state of American news. Look at CNN, FOX or MSNBC and compare it to Stratfor below. These aren't news channels they are fluff channels. Am I just a freak, or is the stuff below interesting and the stuff on these other channels enough to put a meth head to sleep? Don't people want interesting news and not weather reports from Europe?

From Stratfor

1253 GMT -- SRI LANKA -- Sri Lankan President Mahinda Rajapakse met Norwegian peace broker Erik Solheim in Colombo on Jan. 24 for talks aimed at preventing a Sri Lankan civil war. Solheim, who arrived the day after a suspected rebel ambush, is scheduled to meet with leaders of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam on Jan. 25 to try to bridge the rebel demand that talks be held in Norway with the government demand that they be held somewhere else.

1248 GMT -- LEBANON -- Lebanon should tell the U.N. Security Council (UNSC) that Hezbollah is a group that defends Lebanon against Israel and not a militia that needs to be disarmed, Lebanese Energy and Water Minister Mohammed Fneish said Jan. 24. Fneish, who also is a Hezbollah member, said a Jan. 23 UNSC statement calling for the implementation of Resolution 1559 (2004) -- which includes a demand that militias be disbanded -- is nothing more than a continuation of American pressure that would enable Israel to continue to occupy Lebanese territories. It is an insult to all Lebanese to call the resistance movement a militia, Fneish said.

1240 GMT -- SUDAN -- Sudan Liberation Army rebels attacked the government-held town of Golo in Sudan's central Darfur region Jan. 23, a senior African Union official said Jan. 24. Darfur rebels also warned late Jan. 23 they are suspending participation in the Darfur peace process to protest Khartoum's bid to lead the African Union, a move that would give the Sudanese government oversight over the 7,000 peacekeeping troops monitoring the cease-fire in Darfur.

1233 GMT -- IRAN -- Two blasts rocked the southwestern Iranian city of Ahvaz at the same time Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was scheduled to visit Jan. 24, though Ahmadinejad reportedly cancelled the visit a day earlier due to bad weather. State television said one explosive device detonated in front of a private bank, killing six people and injuring 15, while the second explosion, in front of a government natural resources office, injured nine.

1226 GMT -- WEST BANK -- Abu Ahmed Hassouna, a leader of the ruling Fatah party in the West Bank town of Nablus, was shot to death Jan. 24 in violence related to the Jan. 25 parliamentary elections, The Associated Press reported, citing relatives at the scene. Hassouna's family said nine gunmen affiliated with Fatah fired at election posters on Hassouna's house and then shot him in the head when he leaned out the window to tell them to stop. The gunmen escaped the scene.

1218 GMT -- CANADA -- Results from the Jan. 23. Canadian general election indicate the Conservative Party won 124 seats in the 308-seat parliament and took 36 percent of the popular vote, making Stephen Harper prime minister-elect and ending the Liberal Party's 12-year leadership of government. The Liberals, led by Prime Minister Paul Martin, won 103 parliamentary seats and just over 30 percent of the popular vote, while the Bloc Quebecois Party took 51 seats.

1211 GMT -- CHINA -- Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao met with U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Robert Zoellick on Jan. 24 for discussions regarding Sino-U.S. relations and other issues of regional concern, said a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman. Although bilateral relations face some problems, they are also reaching an unprecedented depth and width that must be maintained through frequent contact, the spokesman said. Zoellick also is scheduled to hold talks with Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Dai Bingguo regarding the U.S.-China Strategic Dialogue during his three-day visit to China.
…………………………………………………………………………
Geopolitical Diary: Chirac Meets the New Germany

German Chancellor Angela Merkel met with French President Jacques Chirac for the second time on Monday. It was a summit that Chirac almost certainly approached with considerable trepidation. Though he was quick to ensure his place as the first foreign leader with whom Merkel met following her swearing-in, she rapidly followed up her visit to Paris by hopscotching across Europe, then flying to Washington and Moscow as well. In short, every aspect of German foreign policy has been up for review.

This stems partly from the change in personalities at the helm. Merkel's predecessor, Gerhard Schroeder, was notorious for his pro-French and anti-American attitudes -- to such a degree that he and U.S. President George W. Bush were not even on speaking terms. And Schroeder, Chirac and Russian President Vladimir Putin made it a point to collectively challenge U.S. foreign policy whenever the opportunity presented itself.

Merkel, who was born in what was then East Germany and lived under the Russian boot during the Cold War, has a more natural sympathy with Washington. While she regards Russia as a potential partner for Germany, it is -- in her own words -- certainly not a friend.

Merkel has been unusually fortunate during her first two months in office. Her Christian Democratic Union (CDU) failed to win an outright majority in parliamentary elections, forcing it to enter into an awkward coalition with the Social Democratic Party (SPD) -- Schroeder's own grouping -- that few, including us, would have thought would have much chance of accomplishing anything particularly meaningful.

But instead of running a government of the lowest common denominator, a series of coincidences have allowed Merkel to distance Germany from Schroeder's policies. Schroeder himself lent a hand, by taking a job as manager of a Russian energy project that he had personally negotiated with Moscow in the closing days of his administration. Such a flagrant conflict of interest alienated even his own former Cabinet ministers.

Also, Iran's new president began waxing philosophic about erasing Israel from existence -- or at least relocating it to Germany. Whereas Schroeder had been quite gung ho about talking up Iran, Merkel could easily cite public opinion in disengaging from Tehran. And finally, a series of public scandals implicating the previous SPD-led government slammed home. But since Merkel's CDU was in opposition at the time the events in question were to have taken place, all blame has been laid at the feet of Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier of the SPD, who until recently was Schroeder's right-hand man.

As a result of all of this, Merkel has been able to chart the ship of state as she sees fit (at least, so far as foreign affairs are concerned).

But Chirac's concerns at this summit run far deeper than anxieties about personalities or coincidences.

Since the end of World War II, France has been, for all intents and purposes, the king of Europe. The United Kingdom was always on the outside looking in, the smaller states could not hope to challenge French hegemony, and Germany was a defeated, occupied state lashed to the European project.

Of the three circumstances, it was the last that empowered French ambition the most. By itself, Paris lacked the geopolitical weight to play a meaningful role in global affairs. But by elevating itself on the back of a prostrate Germany, France could make its voice heard far and wide.

However, Germany now is beginning to stand back up and no longer will serve as a pedestal for France. Under Schroeder, an awakening, reunified Germany was not a threat because Berlin still marched in lockstep with Paris. But under Merkel, that is changing.

For the first time in 50 years of Franco-German partnership, the French president likely realized that the German he would be entertaining has her own ideas about what needs to be done for Germany, as opposed to ideas about what was best for Europe. Relations between Paris and Berlin are hardly hostile, but there are more cracks of light between them than there have been in decades -- whether the issue is VAT, the European constitution or relations with powers beyond Europe.

Which forces one to recall what European history was like before Germany was an occupied state. Traditionally, a strong Germany wreaks havoc with French interests. Throughout history, when Germany has been strong, France has been forced to look elsewhere for allies. And quite often, those allies have spoken English.

For a president who has dedicated his entire political life to using Germany as a bolster for France and its power vis-à-vis the Americans, that is perhaps the biggest nightmare of all.

Why are they hiding the news?

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
The sad state of American news. Look at CNN, FOX or MSNBC and compare it to Stratfor below. These aren't news channels they are fluff channels. Am I just a freak, or is the stuff below interesting and the stuff on these other channels enough to put a meth head to sleep? Don't people want interesting news and not weather reports from Europe?

Obviously they don't or the market would provide it.

Why are they hiding the news?

Quote:

You are a freak. Find me one Euro-paper that covered the Batboy story.

Why are they hiding the news?

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
You are a freak. Find me one Euro-paper that covered the Batboy story.

2. None of the major papers covered Ickes' revelations- conversely our own Enquirer was all over that shit.

Why are they hiding the news?

Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Obviously they don't or the market would provide it.

I am not questioning their business acumen, I just find it hard to grasp that people find the weather in Europe more interesting than assassinations in Palestine. I am clearly out of touch with the American people.

Tally! Tally! Tally!

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
What do you think about Harry Belafonte?

If he is not on a Republican payroll, he should be.

Why are they hiding the news?

Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
I am not questioning their business acumen, I just find it hard to grasp that people find the weather in Europe more interesting than assassinations in Palestine. I am clearly out of touch with the American people.

I like news stories about ladies' boobies, or if they have 6 toes or stuff like that.

Ding, Dong, the Grey Lady is dead

The ever-diminishing NYT this morning editorializes that the Dems should filibuster Alito, even though they know it will fail.

I cannot believe that one of the leading [ha!] newspapers would actual go on record as promoting useless obstructionism.

Further evidence of the hijacking of the media, not merely by the Left, but by the lunatic fringe of Dean, Atrios and Kos.

Why are Reuters and AP declaring this a "shocking" victory?

You'd have to be a fucking idiot - or a member of Hollywood like Steven "Revisionist" Spielberg - to think that the Palestinian rabble ever wanted peace with Israel.

Maybe some people will wake up to this fact. But I highly doubt it.

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Why are Reuters and AP declaring this a "shocking" victory?

You'd have to be a fucking idiot - or a member of Hollywood like Steven "Revisionist" Spielberg - to think that the Palestinian rabble ever wanted peace with Israel.

Maybe they ripped it off from Fox News?

A shocking victory for Hamas in the first Palestinian parliamentary elections in a decade seemed to catch winners and losers off guard, and major decisions lay ahead for both Hamas and the rival Fatah Party.

In Fox News' case, I vote for "fucking idiots".

Where were the planes, Penske?

Apparently the answer was "moving WMDs to Syria"*:

From the NY Sun:

Quote:

Iraq's WMD Secreted in Syria, Sada Says

The man who served as the no. 2 official in Saddam Hussein's air force says Iraq moved weapons of mass destruction into Syria before the war by loading the weapons into civilian aircraft in which the passenger seats were removed.

The Iraqi general, Georges Sada, makes the charges in a new book, "Saddam's Secrets," released this week. He detailed the transfers in an interview yesterday with The New York Sun.

"There are weapons of mass destruction gone out from Iraq to Syria, and they must be found and returned to safe hands," Mr. Sada said. "I am confident they were taken over."

Mr. Sada's comments come just more than a month after Israel's top general during Operation Iraqi Freedom, Moshe Yaalon, told the Sun that Saddam "transferred the chemical agents from Iraq to Syria."

Democrats have made the absence of stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq a theme in their criticism of the Bush administration's decision to go to war in 2003. And President Bush himself has conceded much of the point; in a televised prime-time address to Americans last month, he said, "It is true that many nations believed that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. But much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong."

Said Mr. Bush, "We did not find those weapons."

The discovery of the weapons in Syria could alter the American political debate on the Iraq war. And even the accusations that they are there could step up international pressure on the government in Damascus. That government, led by Bashar Assad, is already facing a U.N. investigation over its alleged role in the assassination of a former prime minister of Lebanon. The Bush administration has criticized Syria for its support of terrorism and its failure to cooperate with the U.N. investigation.

The State Department recently granted visas for self-proclaimed opponents of Mr. Assad to attend a "Syrian National Council" meeting in Washington scheduled for this weekend, even though the attendees include communists, Baathists, and members of the Islamist Muslim Brotherhood group to the exclusion of other, more mainstream groups.

Mr. Sada, 65, told the Sun that the pilots of the two airliners that transported the weapons of mass destruction to Syria from Iraq approached him in the middle of 2004, after Saddam was captured by American troops.

"I know them very well. They are very good friends of mine. We trust each other. We are friends as pilots," Mr. Sada said of the two pilots. He declined to disclose their names, saying they are concerned for their safety. But he said they are now employed by other airlines outside Iraq.

The pilots told Mr. Sada that two Iraqi Airways Boeings were converted to cargo planes by removing the seats, Mr. Sada said. Then Special Republican Guard brigades loaded materials onto the planes, he said, including "yellow barrels with skull and crossbones on each barrel." The pilots said there was also a ground convoy of trucks.

The flights - 56 in total, Mr. Sada said - attracted little notice because they were thought to be civilian flights providing relief from Iraq to Syria, which had suffered a flood after a dam collapse in June of 2002.

"Saddam realized, this time, the Americans are coming," Mr. Sada said. "They handed over the weapons of mass destruction to the Syrians."

Mr. Sada said that the Iraqi official responsible for transferring the weapons was a cousin of Saddam Hussein named Ali Hussein al-Majid, known as "Chemical Ali." The Syrian official responsible for receiving them was a cousin of Bashar Assad who is known variously as General Abu Ali, Abu Himma, or Zulhimawe.

Short of discovering the weapons in Syria, those seeking to validate Mr. Sada's claim independently will face difficulty. His book contains a foreword by a retired U.S. Air Force colonel, David Eberly, who was a prisoner of war in Iraq during the first Gulf War and who vouches for Mr. Sada, who once held him captive, as "an honest and honorable man."

In his visit to the Sun yesterday, Mr. Sada was accompanied by Terry Law, the president of a Tulsa, Oklahoma based Christian humanitarian organization called World Compassion. Mr. Law said he has known Mr. Sada since 2002, lived in his house in Iraq and had Mr. Sada as a guest in his home in America. "Do I believe this man? Yes," Mr. Law said. "It's been solid down the line and everything checked out."

Said Mr. Law, "This is not a publicity hound. This is a man who wants peace putting his family on the line."

Mr. Sada acknowledged that the disclosures about transfers of weapons of mass destruction are "a very delicate issue." He said he was afraid for his family. "I am sure the terrorists will not like it. The Saddamists will not like it," he said.

He thanked the American troops. "They liberated the country and the nation. It is a liberation force. They did a great job," he said. "We have been freed."

He said he had not shared his story until now with any American officials. "I kept everything secret in my heart," he said. But he is scheduled to meet next week in Washington with Senators Sessions and Inhofe, Republicans of, respectively, Alabama and Oklahoma. Both are members of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

The book also says that on the eve of the first Gulf War, Saddam was planning to use his air force to launch a chemical weapons attack on Israel.

When, during an interview with the Sun in April 2004, Vice President Cheney was asked whether he thought that Iraqi weapons of mass destruction had been moved to Syria, Mr. Cheney replied only that he had seen such reports.

An article in the Fall 2005 Middle East Quarterly reports that in an appearance on Israel's Channel 2 on December 23, 2002, Israel's prime minister, Ariel Sharon, stated, "Chemical and biological weapons which Saddam is endeavoring to conceal have been moved from Iraq to Syria." The allegation was denied by the Syrian government at the time as "completely untrue," and it attracted scant American press attention, coming as it did on the eve of the Christmas holiday.

The Syrian ruling party and Saddam Hussein had in common the ideology of Baathism, a mixture of Nazism and Marxism.

Syria is one of only eight countries that has not signed the Chemical Weapons Convention, a treaty that obligates nations not to stockpile or use chemical weapons. Syria's chemical warfare program, apart from any weapons that may have been received from Iraq, has long been the source of concern to America, Israel, and Lebanon. In March 2004, the director of Central Intelligence, George Tenet, testified before the Senate Armed Services Committee, saying, "Damascus has an active CW development and testing program that relies on foreign suppliers for key controlled chemicals suitable for producing CW."

The CIA's Iraq Survey Group acknowledged in its September 30, 2004, "Comprehensive Report," "we cannot express a firm view on the possibility that WMD elements were relocated out of Iraq prior to the war. Reports of such actions exist, but we have not yet been able to investigate this possibility thoroughly."

Mr. Sada is an unusual figure for an Iraqi general as he is a Christian and was not a member of the Baath Party. He now directs the Iraq operations of the Christian humanitarian organization, World Compassion.

* Coming as no surprise whatsoever to me, Club, Billmore, Spanky and Penske

Where were the planes, Penske?

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Apparently the answer was "moving WMDs to Syria"*:

* Coming as no surprise whatsoever to me, Club, Billmore, Spanky and Penske

Well, this guy says it (based on what a couple of unnamed other guys said to him), a couple of other guys vouch for him, he's got a book to move - well, I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, that settles it! On to Syria!

Ding, Dong, the Grey Lady is dead

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The ever-diminishing NYT this morning editorializes that the Dems should filibuster Alito, even though they know it will fail.

I cannot believe that one of the leading [ha!] newspapers would actual go on record as promoting useless obstructionism.

Further evidence of the hijacking of the media, not merely by the Left, but by the lunatic fringe of Dean, Atrios and Kos.

Oh, Christ... I'm not shocked in the least. Their fucking Oped page is a comedy skit these days.

The media isn't hijacked by the Left - you're reading the Left's Bible. If you want to read the Right's Bible, check the Journal's Oped page.

I try to read both, so I can retain an open minded disdain and total lack of respect for both sides.

Ding, Dong, the Grey Lady is dead

Quote:

BTW, why aren't you celebrating? In an early poll, 51% of the country said they'd vote against Hillary Clinton if she ran in 2008. That's a early poll. She'll be at 65% by '08. And true to form, the Dem leadership is geared up to run her and sure as shit they can make that lead zeppelin fly.

Kiss the Democractic party goodbye.

Where were the planes, Penske?

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Apparently the answer was "moving WMDs to Syria"*:

From the NY Sun:

* Coming as no surprise whatsoever to me, Club, Billmore, Spanky and Penske

You forgot Hank.

Quote:

I agree that the Hamas success is not a "shock" -- although an outright majority was in doubt.

However, while the Israeli-Palestinian conflict hangs over everything, Hamas' victory had less to do with the Fatah policy towards Israel than you suggest.

The biggest reasons Fatah lost were pocketbook and QOL issues and the tremendous corruption and ineffectiveness of the Palestinian Authority. Fatah had been in charge for 13 years, and had made a damn mess of most things (with "help" from the virulent internal opposition). This was for many folks a vote to "throw the bums out" and try something new -- no more and no less.

I think that the need to actually govern the PA will eventually compel Hamas to moderate its positions.

S_A_M

Where were the planes, Penske?

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
* Coming as no surprise whatsoever to me, Club, Billmore, Spanky and Penske

You mispelled bilmore.

Where were the planes, Penske?

Quote:

Sexual Harassment Panda
You mispelled bilmore.

Actually, he's the one that spells it incorrectly.

Ding, Dong, the Grey Lady is dead

Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
BTW, why aren't you celebrating? In an early poll, 51% of the country said they'd vote against Hillary Clinton if she ran in 2008. That's a early poll. She'll be at 65% by '08. And true to form, the Dem leadership is geared up to run her and sure as shit they can make that lead zeppelin fly.

Kiss the Democractic party goodbye.

I'd prefer that they put up someone viable so the GOP is forced to look for a "good" candidate this time.

and Al Gore is not that viable person.

Ding, Dong, the Grey Lady is dead

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
I'd prefer that they put up someone viable so the GOP is forced to look for a "good" candidate this time.

and Al Gore is not that viable person.

The Beltway Dems are all about Hill, aand they get to decide. Abramoff would beat her in the Midwest. Shit, Gene Simmons would be a great candidate against her. Where's Gary Coleman?

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
I agree that the Hamas success is not a "shock" -- although an outright majority was in doubt.

However, while the Israeli-Palestinian conflict hangs over everything, Hamas' victory had less to do with the Fatah policy towards Israel than you suggest.

The biggest reasons Fatah lost were pocketbook and QOL issues and the tremendous corruption and ineffectiveness of the Palestinian Authority. Fatah had been in charge for 13 years, and had made a damn mess of most things (with "help" from the virulent internal opposition). This was for many folks a vote to "throw the bums out" and try something new -- no more and no less.

I think that the need to actually govern the PA will eventually compel Hamas to moderate its positions.

S_A_M

2 - and once they have the governing under control then they can go back to pushing the jews into the sea

Where were the planes, Penske?

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Apparently the answer was "moving WMDs to Syria"*:

From the NY Sun:

* Coming as no surprise whatsoever to me, Club, Billmore, Spanky and Penske

I see it as the biggest non-issue of the year. The Democrats were looking for anything to critisize and they seized upon the WMDs.

1) There were plenty of other reasons to invade Iraq. Genocide and mass murder being just two that immediately come to mind.

2) Saddam had used WMDs before. No reason to think he had used them all up or wouldn't use them again if he had the chance.

3) With the way Saddam was acting with the inspectors, either Saddam was completely insane or he was hiding them.

4) There is no way US intelligence could know that there were no WMDs. How could any intelligence agency know what exists in every square foot of a country the size of Iraq.

5) During the invasion every level of the military was completely paranoid that Saddam would use them. The US army took unbelievable precautions to prepare for such an attack.

6) Bush and Cheney clearly believed that there were WMDs so no one "lied".

7) There could still be some WMDs out there that are well hidden (Again it is a big country) and they could have been moved to Syria.

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
2 - and once they have the governing under control then they can go back to pushing the jews into the sea

What I don't get is why anyone expects any Palestinian in his heart not to want the complete destruction of Israel. Everyone in Fatah wants to get rid of Israel but realizes that it is not a realisitic expectation. Hamas is just saying out loud what every Palestinian really believes.

So why is support of Hamas such a shock?

The only reason why the Palestinians have ever or will ever agree to the existence of Israel is because there is a gun held against their heads. Why would anyone ever expect the Palestinians to volunatarily accept the existence of Israel as a permanenent institution?

Times like these are when I really miss Penske

Where were the planes, Penske?

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Apparently the answer was "moving WMDs to Syria"*:

* Coming as no surprise whatsoever to me, Club, Billmore, Spanky and Penske

Funny, but I don't remember any Republicans arguing before the war that one of its great benefits would be delivering weapons of mass destruction to Syria. Must have missed that one.

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
2 - and once they have the governing under control then they can go back to pushing the jews into the sea

Well, first things first, that's what the Koran says.

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Well, first things first, that's what the Koran says.

You could blind all the Jews in Israel and those waterheads still wouldn't be able to push them into the sea. With the exception of 9/11, "Allah's Sword" has largely been of the foam novelty variety for the past 700 years.

They only "won" Afghanistan because the Russians ran out of money (and realized they were fighting for a useless arid dirt farm). If the Russians had located serious oil reserves to tap over there, there wouldn't be an Islamic soul alive in Afghanistan today.

Where were the planes, Penske?

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Funny, but I don't remember any Republicans arguing before the war that one of its great benefits would be delivering weapons of mass destruction to Syria. Must have missed that one.

No, the argument was that we needed to invade before that happened, but then the UN diddled and dawdled.

Times like these are when I really miss Penske

Quote:

Replaced_Texan
Byrd supports Alito

Better yet, Byrd is now extremely concerned about mining conditions and the safety of miners - even though they've been mining in West Virginia for 150 years, and Byrd has been their Senator for 70 of those.

Where were the planes, Penske?

Quote:

Sidd Finch
Funny, but I don't remember any Republicans arguing before the war that one of its great benefits would be delivering weapons of mass destruction to Syria. Must have missed that one.

Har Har.

Where were the planes, Penske?

Quote:

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
... but then the UN diddled and dawdled.

And skimmed off the top. And bought Kofi's son a car.

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
2 - and once they have the governing under control then they can go back to pushing the jews into the sea

You misunderstand.

When I said the need to govern "will eventually force Hamas to moderate its policies" -- I meant that one as well.

As governors, they will be forced to deal with reality, including the reality that for their people to have a decent QOL or economy they _must_ cooperate with Israel. Fatah still has 40% plus of the parliamentary seats as the "loyal opposition", and I think that the bulk of the population as a whole don't want continued war.

Now Hamas will have to feed the poor, educate the masses, keep the lights on, collect the trash, keep the peace, etc. (Even much more than their prior chartiable endeavors.) That will take up lots of time and energy.

They will also learn that they are now a big, fat, static target -- not an "underground" movement, and that Israel is continuing to improve its defenses.

S_A_M

Quote:

Originally posted by Secret_Agent_Man
You misunderstand.

When I said the need to govern "will eventually force Hamas to moderate its policies" -- I meant that one as well.

As governors, they will be forced to deal with reality, including the reality that for their people to have a decent QOL or economy they _must_ cooperate with Israel. Fatah still has 40% plus of the parliamentary seats as the "loyal opposition", and I think that the bulk of the population as a whole don't want continued war.

Now Hamas will have to feed the poor, educate the masses, keep the lights on, collect the trash, keep the peace, etc. (Even much more than their prior chartiable endeavors.) That will take up lots of time and energy.

They will also learn that they are now a big, fat, static target -- not an "underground" movement, and that Israel is continuing to improve its defenses.

S_A_M

Good luck. The first member of Hamas that suggests not destroying Israel will be destroyed himself.

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Good luck. The first member of Hamas that suggests not destroying Israel will be destroyed himself.

Odd that you predict the continued temper tantrum of a political organization when it gains political power in the state infrastructure.

History suggests that when such groups actually gain political power and have to start running shit instead of throwing rocks all day, some of the edges tend to smooth out.

Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
Good luck. The first member of Hamas that suggests not destroying Israel will be destroyed himself.

Maybe, and maybe only Nixon could go to China.

Sadat was assassinated by the Muslim Brotherhood a few years later, but Egypt and Israel remain at peace.

S_A_M

P.S. Or, Hamas gets voted out in the next election if they are lousy governors, and a revitalized Fatah movement resumes control. {Hey, it _could_ happen!}