You could just as easily say that there is no evidence that the FBI wouldn't have done exactly what it said it would do had the man not given a false confession.

Indeed.

There is no easier way of knowing you are wrong than when you hear yourself saying this.

You do realize I'm offering this as an indictment of the way most people view this issue when their country is criticized for torturing enemies of the state, don't you?

I assume you know sarcasm, or satire, or cynical humor (or whatever you'd call my parahprasing of our nation's self-righteousness) when you see it.

is ty being sarcastic with this "guilty until proven innocent" rap on the threats?

Your phrasing suggests that you might actually think there's something wrong with siccing the Egyptian secret police on a guy's family to get him to talk. How about that.

The first is kind of a tautology, isn't it? If torture's illegal, then everybody is prosecuted for it, so giving the agents the right to engage it is a crime in itself, isn't it?

I agree on the second point. The real issue here has never been torture. And this Admin should be reined in, dramatically. And you and I, we agree on the need to lessen the scope of the Exec's power. So why then does you side of the political spectrum ask to make the govt so much bigger in other areas? You want more social services, more programs and more oversight. You say govt is a friend and big business is a danger to us when we're talking about entitlements and taxes, but when it comes to branches of the govt using their power as Bush is doing, suddenly you're a Libertarian.

Why don't people like you and I get together around a compromise of shrinking all areas of the govt and reining in its power across the board? I want Bush downsized and caged. He's an idiot who's ruinging our foreign policy and taking us into an endless war. I also want our domestic govt and every program in it sliced to the bare bones. Cut it all. Lets be fair. You can't have it both ways. You can't have a big govt for those who suckle from it and at the same time a small govt when it comes to matters of Exec power. Either the govt is big and broadly powerful or it is small.

Pick.

Not sure I follow. If torture is illegal, that doesn't mean it always must be prosecuted. If you really feel driven to torture someone to discover a hidden nuclear bomb, you're not going to stop just because a law says you can't do it, and I can't believe anyone would ever prosecute you for it anyway.

Kumbayah, dude.

Well, the most obvious answer is that the long arm of the government acts much less brutally when it takes tax dollars from the rich to pay for services than when it sics Egyptian security forces on the family of a man to get him to talk. All else equal, a larger government means less freedom, but all else is never equal.

I tend to be much more of a pragmatist than would be apparent on this board about which government interventions in markets are worthwhile.

There is no consituency -- none -- for downsizing government in the way you describe. We've just had a Republican-run government for most of six years, and it did the opposite. The reason for this, of course, is that government spending is popular, even when it is wrong-headed, and Republicans in Congress and at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. did not want to risk the political heat that would come with cuts. It's not a conservative or liberal issues. Both parties want to spend $$$, but they want to spend $$$ on different constiuencies. That's politics.

You're linking issues that are fundamentally unrelated. One is a question of the size of the federal government. The other has to do with the balance of power between the different branches of the federal government.

since torture doesn't work wouldn't it be criminally negligent to waste time torturing the guy?

I think the hypothetical is set up so as to preclude the sort of interrogation that would get you cooperation. Not to worry -- it works in the movies, which is the only time this sort of thing happens.

Where Blackwater came from.
 

Apropos of our earlier discussion, I just noticed this on Krugman's blog:

He's quoting from this Washington Post article.

how do you know so much?

I watched a lot of PBS as a kid.

http://l.yimg.com/img.tv.yahoo.com/t...1021014804.jpg

Is that mustard under the egg on the rye (?) bread? Weird. I like the walking, talking oatmeal. Or cream of wheat.

Maybe egg yolk?

Fortunately this never happened to me.

The yolks look intact to me.

This is sooooo way a better conversation than anything political.

How about baseball? I stand ready to discuss this evening's game at the slightest provocation.

shut it.

So, Beckett's post-season ERA went up this game, but he still did OK.

Go, Stephen, Go!
 

Colbert hits double digits in recent Rasmussen poll.

• A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that Colbert is preferred by 13% of voters as an independent candidate challenging Democrat Hillary Clinton and Republican Rudy Giuliani. The survey was conducted shortly after Colbert’s surprise announcement that he is lusting for the Oval Office.
  
  The result is similar when Fred Thompson is the Republican in the three-way race. With Thompson as the GOP candidate, Colbert earns 12% of the vote.
  
  ****
  
  Colbert does particularly well with the younger voters most likely to be watching his show and therefore most aware of his myriad presidential-like qualities. In the match-up with Giuliani and Clinton, Colbert draws 28% of likely voters aged 18-29. He draws 31% of that cohort when his foes are Thompson and Clinton. In both match-ups, Colbert has more support with young voters than the GOP candidate.

You know, I don't care if his candidacy is violating federal election laws. This is awesome.

Gattigap

Go, Stephen, Go!
 

The legal issues are easily solved. Colbert doesn't control the content of either his show or his campaign, Viacom does. And all Viacom has to do is give Romney and Clinton their own comedy show - I suspect they'd get good ratings. Mayor Red Sox and Obama, less so.

BlackH2O
 

Vote for the new Blackwater logo here:

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/1...ater-logo.html

My fave:

http://blog.wired.com/photos/uncateg...lackwater3.jpg

BlackH2O
 

Interesting definition: The rest of the article is pretty cool.

Disclaimer: I like China Mieville's books quite a bit. And he's written quite a bit about "libertarian" floating shelters.

• People under the age of 35, maybe even 40, probably don't remember the Aldo Moro crisis. Aldo Moro was a several-times prime minister of Italy who was kidnapped and held hostage by terrorists in 1978. After about 50 days, in which the terrorists alternately interrogated Moro and let him write letters to the outside world begging for his life, he was murdered. Maybe "several-times prime minister" doesn't do his stature justice -- imagine, G-d forbid, that something similar happened to, oh, Bob Dole or Dick Gephardt. An important politician widely recognized as a national leader, taken by terrorists making outrageous demands who could kill him at any moment. Short of an actual nuclear bomb, that's one of the worst things imaginable in a democracy.
  
  At one point in the crisis, General Dalla Chiesa, the head of the team trying to unravel the kidnapping, was asked permission to torture a Red Brigades sympathizer who was in jail, for information that might free Moro. His response? "Italy can survive the loss of Aldo Moro. It would not survive the introduction of torture."

link

Given the relative stability of Italian politics, that's a really good quote that's crushed by its context.

Ty's lack of perspective or actual knowledge is not a fair grounds of response here.

I would just say that the General's response was most likely intended to cover up the fact that the government torture department was on strike.

Ladies and gentlemen: The worst mayor in America. It would be funny if it weren't true.

Please. Read about Kwame Kilpatrick. Is Marion Barry still mayor.

Did you read it?

Link, please, and I will.

No. And this guy sounds worse.

asked and answered.



kwame would be on the other side of most of those doors.

Implicitly, at best, and only with this post.

I'd nominate the missing mayor of Atlantic City, but they apparently found him and he resigned shortly thereafter.

No, it's equally funny when it's true. Perhaps more so. Trust me when I pronounce the Atticus Grinch Laws of Representative Politicodynamics:*

Rule 1: Government officials you get = government officials you deserve.

Rule 2: There is no Rule 2.


*On the national scale, these are also known as Grinch's Laws of Conservation of Jomentum.

I just learned of some terrible news from Africa. how come no one is talking about this?

• HUMBLY SEEKING FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE PLEASE
  ATTN: Friend,
  My name is as above stated, the wife of Mr. Daniel Khumalo from the
  republic of Zimbabwe. It might be a surprise to you where i got your
  contact address. I got your contact from the South Africa Chamber of
  Commerce in Johannesburg. During the current war against the farmers in
  Zimbabwe from the supporters of our President Robert Mugabe, in his
  effort to chase all the white farmers out of the country, he ordered all the
  white
  farmers to surrender their farms to his party members and his followers.My
  husband, was one of the best and successful farmers in our country and
  formerly the Finance Minister of Robert Mugabe administration, but he
  did not support the idea of dispossessing the white farmers of their land.
  Because of this, his farm was invaded and burnt by government
  supporters.In the course of this shock, my husband died, and the invaders made
  away with a lot of items from my husband’s farm.And our family house was
  utterly destroyed. My husband died out of heart attack. He drew my
  attention to the sum of US$15.5 MILLION, Which he deposited with a security
  company in South Africa during his tenure as the Finance Minister of Zimbabwe.
  My son and I decided to move out of Zimbabwe for our own security,
  because our lives were in danger. We decided to move to the Republic of South
  Africa where my husband deposited this money. Till date, the security
  company is not aware of the content of the consignment because my
  husband used his diplomatic immunity as at that time to deposit the consignment
  as important personal valuables.
  I decided to have contact with overseas person/firm who will assist me
  to move the money out of South Africa. This becomes necessary because as
  political asylum seekers, we are not allowed to own or operate a bank
  account. I want you to immediately confirm your interest in the project
  through my son JAMES KHUMALO on +27-73 99 76551 or email-
  mrskhumalo1@myway.com
  As soon as I get your response, I will give you more details on how we
  can proceed. Thanks and God bless you for your anticipated cooperation. Urgent
  response waited.
  Best regards,
  
  Mrs.Khumalo

I have no illusions about my many flaws, moral and intellectual, but I deserve better than what I got. Have, I mean.

You deserve to move to Redwood City ("Climate best by government test").

I got a rock.
 

Indeed. Story of my life.

http://www.petcaretips.net/IGotARock.jpg

Go, Stephen, Go!
 

• Scene 12:
  
  Camera pans across hearing room, as Stephen Colbert takes his seat at a witness table, reporters scurry as we hear a gavel.
  
  LENHARD: Please, please everybody come to order. Mr. Colbert, you understand the allegations made about the funding of your candidacy. We here at the FEC want to know why we should turn a blind eye to the immense aggregations of wealth of Comedy Central . . . indeed of Viacom. In truthi . . .
  
  COLBERT (shouting): Truthiness? You can't HANDLE the truthiness!

link

More Aldo Moro context, from a commenter on my blog:

• Moro was prime minister when I left Rome for stateside, and he was by all accounts one of the more competent italian elected officials (admittedly not a high bar).
  
  It's difficult to convey how terrorized Roman citizens felt as a result of the Brigati Rossi's 1970's terrorist campaigns. I was there at the time -- each day my parents would read the paper to see whether they knew the latest kidnap victim, and where the latest body of a former kidnap victim had been found, if the family had been too slow in paying the ransom.
  
  The ex-pat community was fairly small in Rome in those days, so we knew the Getty family, even though we didn't socialize with them. When John Paul Getty III was kidnapped at the age of 16, my friends and I were all terrified we'd be next. When his ear arrived in the mail, we all assumed we'd be eventually cut up and returned piecemeal to our parents.
  
  That the Italian government was unwilling, even in those circumstances, to stoop to torture is a testament to their principles. Whether this administration would take the moral high road in similar circumstances would now seem to have been answered unequivocally in the negative.