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-   -   All Hank, all the time. (http://www.lawtalkers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=734)

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 04-13-2006 05:27 PM

Religion and Maps
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Yeah, I saw that too. I imagine they tinkered with the percentages assigned to each allocation because otherwise, some of the maps would've just looked plain empty because some religious groups just don't have many people at all in most counties (but they might have some).
I think that's right. They take the highest percentage in any given county as the max. Then they subdivide somehow. It looks like the top range is about 50% of the maximum, then it's 25-50%, then 10-25%, and then 0-10 (or zero). But it doesn't look like the formula is consistent, although it's close, which suggests it's based on some sort of distribution. For example, perhaps it's quintiles (or quartiles). I.e., the first level of shading is for counties in the bottom 25% of percentage, then 25-50,50-75, and 75-100. Just a guess.

Sidd Finch 04-13-2006 06:27 PM

Religion and Maps
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I thought you were color blind.


Damn malingerers.
He is. Right now, Spanky is sitting on his doorstep and telling a deer "You have no idea how many Jewish counties there are in this country!"

Spanky 04-13-2006 08:44 PM

Religion and Maps
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Shape Shifter
I thought you were color blind.


Damn malingerers.
Red green color blind. Makes color coded maps a pain in the ass, but on the computer I can adjust the colors so I can see them better. But maps that are color coded with subtle colors are a total nightmare.

I had a world map on my wall as a kid where the colors changes were very subtle. The map was from the interwar period (I and II). To me Germany, Poland and Czecklosavakia where all one color so I thought they were the same country on the map.

Kind of makes you wonder if the map designer was part of the bund.

Spanky 04-13-2006 08:46 PM

Religion and Maps
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
I think that's right. They take the highest percentage in any given county as the max. Then they subdivide somehow. It looks like the top range is about 50% of the maximum, then it's 25-50%, then 10-25%, and then 0-10 (or zero). But it doesn't look like the formula is consistent, although it's close, which suggests it's based on some sort of distribution. For example, perhaps it's quintiles (or quartiles). I.e., the first level of shading is for counties in the bottom 25% of percentage, then 25-50,50-75, and 75-100. Just a guess.
Under their system it makes it look like everywhere but the south is Catholic dominated. Although that might make the Pope happy, that is clearly not the reality (or Kennedy would not have been the first and last Catholic president).

Spanky 04-13-2006 08:55 PM

Religion and Maps
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
He is. Right now, Spanky is sitting on his doorstep and telling a deer "You have no idea how many Jewish counties there are in this country!"
In Law School a friend of mine pointed out to me that the Jewish influence in this country is one of the main reasons why the fundamentalists have never been able to turn this country into a theocracy. One of the reasons why I think Christian conservative's complaints about Hollywood's anti-Christian bias is really a cloaked form of anti- semiticism.

In any event, every year since I obtained that little morsal of knowledge, the jewish population in this country has DECREASED per capita.

That is good news for Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson and bad news for everyone that does not want sex to be limited to only the missionary position on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

I agree with Bill Maher that a new rule should be that Jewish couples are not allowed birth control (although that may not be constitutional - not sure).

Spanky 04-13-2006 08:58 PM

I saw a great bumper sticker today that said "Please Lord - save me from your followers".

Of course that bumper sticker was right below "Hate is not a family value".

Sidd Finch 04-13-2006 10:25 PM

Heckuva job, Rummy
 
More generals call for Rumsfeld to resign.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/...eld/index.html


I know it'll never happen -- but that actually makes it more satisfying, and more promising, from my perspective.

juan, usmc 04-13-2006 10:53 PM

Heckuva job, Rummy
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
More generals call for Rumsfeld to resign.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/04/...eld/index.html


I know it'll never happen -- but that actually makes it more satisfying, and more promising, from my perspective.
Jodete y aprieta el culo! traidor!

¿cadena del comando?

¿¿¿cómo usted tiene gusto de él cuando tu asociados son llamando para tu cabeza??? y no te piense que no lo hacen

Hank Chinaski 04-13-2006 10:55 PM

Heckuva job, Rummy
 
Quote:

Originally posted by juan, usmc
Jodete y aprieta el culo! traidor!

¿cadena del comando?

¿¿¿cómo usted tiene gusto de él cuando tu asociados son llamando para tu cabeza??? y no te piense que no lo hacen
still my favorite of all my tribute socks!

sgtclub 04-14-2006 12:13 PM

More on Duke
 
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/13/D8GVCKT81.html

This just keeps getting stranger. The victim arrived at the party at 11:30 am, and was found passed out drunk in a car in a parking lot of a convenience store at 1:30 am.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 04-14-2006 12:28 PM

More on Duke
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/13/D8GVCKT81.html

This just keeps getting stranger. The victim arrived at the party at 11:30 am, and was found passed out drunk in a car in a parking lot of a convenience store at 1:30 am.
Good ol' everclear.

IT's totally bizarre. She supposedly shows up drunk and in bad shape at 11:30 (according to pictures). Her partner calls the cops at 12:15 saying she's being accosted with racial slurs outside the house. And now the accuser is found drunk in a car at 1:30. It all adds up to something, but not a consistent story.

Gattigap 04-14-2006 12:38 PM

More on Duke
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sgtclub
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/13/D8GVCKT81.html

This just keeps getting stranger. The victim arrived at the party at 11:30 am, and was found passed out drunk in a car in a parking lot of a convenience store at 1:30 am.
It's a complete mess. Race, class, dumbshit lacrosse players, the District Attorney going too public too far ahead of where the evidence leads him, the whole thing.

Oh, and lacrosse players? In case we didn't know -- assholes.

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 04-14-2006 12:54 PM

More on Duke
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
It's a complete mess. Race, class,
which means one can't speculate. For example, that the woman had an earlier "job", maybe involving sex, comes to her next job at the house, where the drunk shits start accosting her and probably refuse to pay her because she's in a bad state. She leaves, is pissed at not getting paid, getting called the n-word, and who knows what else, says she was raped, and there we are. But that would be speculation I don't care to make, since all we have is snippets of evidence that are leaked.

SlaveNoMore 04-14-2006 04:12 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
This reaches a new level of absurd.


OSU librarian slapped with “sexual harassment” charge for recommending conservative books for freshmen

COLUMBUS, Ohio — Officials at the Ohio State University are investigating an OSU Mansfield librarian for “sexual harassment” after he recommended four conservative books for a freshman reading program. ADF has demanded that OSU cease its frivolous investigation, yet the university is pressing forward, claiming that it takes the charges “seriously.”

“Universities are one of the most hostile places for Christians and conservatives in America,” said ADF Senior Legal Counsel David French, who heads ADF’s Center for Academic Freedom. “It is shameful that OSU would investigate a Christian librarian for simply recommending books that are at odds with the prevailing politics of the university.”

Scott Savage, who serves as a reference librarian for the university, suggested four best-selling conservative books for freshman reading in his role as a member of OSU Mansfield’s First Year Reading Experience Committee. The four books he suggested were The Marketing of Evil by David Kupelian, The Professors by David Horowitz, Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis by Bat Ye’or, and It Takes a Family by Senator Rick Santorum. Savage made the recommendations after other committee members had suggested a series of books with a left-wing perspective, by authors such as Jimmy Carter and Maria Shriver.

Savage was put under “investigation” by OSU’s Office of Human Resources after three professors filed a complaint of discrimination and harassment against him, saying that the book suggestions made them feel “unsafe.” The complaint came after the OSU Mansfield faculty voted without dissent to file charges against Savage. The faculty later voted to allow the individual professors to file charges.

On March 28, ADF sent OSU officials a letter informing them of Savage’s constitutional rights. A copy of the letter can be read at www.telladf.org/UserDocs/OSUMansfieldletter.pdf. The university so far has declined to stop the investigation, saying in its response that it takes “any allegation of sexual harassment seriously.”

“The OSU Mansfield faculty is attempting to label a librarian as a ‘sexual harasser’ because they disagree with his book suggestions,” said French. “It is astonishing that an entire faculty would vote to launch a sexual harassment investigation because a librarian offered book suggestions in a committee whose purpose was to solicit such suggestions.”

Read the e-mail correspondence among the OSU faculty
here (Exhibits to the Letter). It's mind-boggling.

futbol fan 04-14-2006 04:21 PM

that vast right-wing conspiracy is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
[righteous indignation from some Christian fundamentalist cat's-paw website]
You have just lost your "Ty's arguments are lame 'cause he cites to some wackadoo left-wing blog" privileges.

And it's clear even from that slanted version that the sexual harassment charges stem from the recommendation of a book by Santorum, which everyone knows is the frothy mix of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex.

Sexual Harassment Panda 04-14-2006 04:59 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
This reaches a new level of absurd.


OSU librarian slapped with “sexual harassment” charge for recommending conservative books for freshmen

First, the guy proposes four conservative books for a freshman English class whose main attributes are that they were best-sellers on Amazon.com, and that they are long on inflammatory text and agenda and short on genuine scholarship. Next, after someone starts to criticize the selection, he starts to copy thefire.org on the emails, and gets the ADF in on the act. Third, he admits up front that he hasn't "read them all" - so why does he recommend them ?

This guy was trying to stir the pot. The faculty members should have just told him he was an idiot and continued on with their lives. This is no gay harassment, but to act as though the librarian is some kind of innocent victim is equally ludicrous.

ltl/fb 04-14-2006 05:16 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
gets the ADF in on the act
The American Dance Festival has always seemed pretty liberal to me. "Peace, Love, Respect, For Everyone." And those basically naked, touching each other all over, Pilobolus people.

Sexual Harassment Panda 04-14-2006 05:27 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
The American Dance Festival has always seemed pretty liberal to me. "Peace, Love, Respect, For Everyone." And those basically naked, touching each other all over, Pilobolus people.
Is that what it means? I thought it was the Aryan Defense Fund.

sgtclub 04-14-2006 05:33 PM

More on Iran
 
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/14/D8GVSUC0H.html

This motherfucker needs to go.

ltl/fb 04-14-2006 05:33 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Is that what it means? I thought it was the Aryan Defense Fund.
Apparently Slave is a fan of an organization that provides model legislation that calls "sexual liasons of a casual nature" "unlawful sexual activities" -- groups it with prostitution.

How people change!

ETA the legislation defines "specified sexual [something or other, I closed the link]" in part as erotic touching of female breasts. Maybe slave is happy that his hairless manly chest can be erotically touched w/out violating ordinance?

SlaveNoMore 04-14-2006 05:52 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Sexual Harassment Panda
First, the guy proposes four conservative books for a freshman English class whose main attributes are that they were best-sellers on Amazon.com, and that they are long on inflammatory text and agenda and short on genuine scholarship. Next, after someone starts to criticize the selection, he starts to copy thefire.org on the emails, and gets the ADF in on the act. Third, he admits up front that he hasn't "read them all" - so why does he recommend them ?

This guy was trying to stir the pot. The faculty members should have just told him he was an idiot and continued on with their lives. This is no gay harassment, but to act as though the surely librarian is some kind of innocent victim is equally ludicrous.
The faculty was suggesting books by Hillary Rodham Clinton and Jimmy Carter - wow, the intellectual and scholarship level is high at OSU - yet it was this guy trying to "stir the pot"

[Also - that one of the books he suggested specifically targets the liberal hijacking of all universities is so ironic, its uncanny]

However, unable to merely sit quietly with an outsider in their midst, these fuckers felt the need to smear this fellow and try to ruin his career.

Unfuckingbelievable

SlaveNoMore 04-14-2006 05:53 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Sexual Harassment Panda
Is that what it means? I thought it was the Aryan Defense Fund.
It's too bad the ACLU stopped being a free speech advocate for anyone but a few scumbag liberals.

Gattigap 04-14-2006 05:54 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
The faculty was suggesting books by Hillary Rodham Clinton and Jimmy Carter - wow, the intellectual and scholarship level is high at OSU - yet it was this guy trying to "stir the pot"

[Also - that one of the books he suggested specifically targets the liberal hijacking of all universities is so ironic, its uncanny]

However, unable to merely sit quietly with an outsider in their midst, these fuckers felt the need to smear this fellow and try to ruin his career.

Unfuckingbelievable
Yeah. Shame we're all out of leg irons.

SlaveNoMore 04-14-2006 05:56 PM

More on Iran
 
Quote:

sgtclub
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/14/D8GVSUC0H.html

This motherfucker needs to go.
Why isn't this being viewed as a public declaration of war?

[other than that people want to stick their heads in the sand]

baltassoc 04-14-2006 05:58 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
[Also - that one of the books he suggested specifically targets the liberal hijacking of all universities is so ironic, its uncanny]
I'm not going to defend OSU here, although I suspect that there is more to this than being said. But Horowitz's book is surpassed as a giant steaming piece of shit only by Horowitz himself.

baltassoc 04-14-2006 06:05 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
It's too bad the ACLU stopped being a free speech advocate for anyone but a few scumbag liberals.
Yeah. Like this commie pinko.

And these psycho liberal bastards.

SlaveNoMore 04-14-2006 06:22 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Even a broken clock is right twice a day

sgtclub 04-14-2006 06:31 PM

More on Iran
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Why isn't this being viewed as a public declaration of war?

[other than that people want to stick their heads in the sand]
I don't know, but coupled with the statements this week about the enrichment progress, and I think Israel has just cause.

ltl/fb 04-14-2006 06:40 PM

More on Iran
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Why isn't this being viewed as a public declaration of war?

[other than that people want to stick their heads in the sand]
War on Israel? Isn't that for them to decide?

Sexual Harassment Panda 04-14-2006 06:44 PM

More on Iran
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
War on Israel? Isn't that for them to decide?
No. As the world's lone superpower, our police function gives us the right to decide who has declared war on whom. We also then have the right to intervene on neither, either or both sides. For more information, see http://www.newamericancentury.org.

Gattigap 04-14-2006 06:45 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Even a broken clock is right twice a day
Or representing Limbaugh. Or others. C'mon, Slave, you're too smart for this bumper-sticker shit.

Here. Read this from Volokh, who's clearly no fan of the ACLU, and who's responding to claims made by a site you may well have written, Stop the ACLU Blog.
  • In fact, my sense is that most of the criticism that the ACLU faces comes because their arguments are too successful -- not only nonfrivolous, but actually ones that win in court...

    But in fact the ACLU often wins, and even when it doesn't, its arguments are generally quite plausible. For instance, the claim that random searches of people in subways are unconstitutional is an eminently plausible Fourth Amendment claim, perhaps even a winning one. Searches that aren't based on any individualized suspicion are usually unconstitutional; even some conservative Justices have said so. (See, e.g., City of Indianapolis v. Edmond, 531 U.S. 32 (2000) (Thomas, J., dissenting) ("I rather doubt that the Framers of the Fourth Amendment would have considered 'reasonable' a program of indiscriminate stops of individuals not suspected of wrongdoing."); Minnesota v. Dickerson, 508 U.S. 366 (1993) (Scalia, J., concurring) (expressing "doubt" as to whether even suspicion-based searches for weapons are constitutional, unless the suspicion rises to the relatively high level of "probable cause": "I frankly doubt, moreover, whether the fiercely proud men who adopted our Fourth Amendment would have allowed themselves to be subjected, on mere suspicion of being armed and dangerous, to such indignity").

    There are some exceptions, including one for airport searches. Perhaps courts should extend this exception to subway searches, especially aimed at finding bombs. But given the current law, the ACLU's argument is eminently credible.

    If you don't like the Fourth Amendment rules that make it possible for the ACLU to sue, fault the Justices who have developed those rules. (In some situations, fault the Framers for setting up the constitutional provisions based on which these rules have been developed; while the Fourth Amendment's ban on unreasonable searches doesn't clearly prohibit the New York searches, it doesn't clearly authorize them, either.) Or fault the Framers for maintaining the English system of justice, in which people have legal rights against the government, and are entitled to go to court to vindicate those rights, even when the majority believes (for good reason or bad) that the rights are dangerous to the common good. Or perhaps, at most, argue that while the ACLU has a legal right to do what it's doing, it ought to (presumably in highly unusual circumstances) refrain from exercising its rights.

    But stop calling them "criminal" for exercising their constitutional rights. Stop calling their lawsuits "frivolous" when the lawsuits bother you precisely because they may well prevail. Stop calling them "pro-terrorist" when there's absolutely no reason to think that they indeed favor terrorism, and lots of reason to think that they favor (whether soundly or misguidedly) legal rules -- such as limits on government power to search -- that unfortunately sometimes protect terrorists while at the same time protecting law-abiding citizens. (It's far from clear to me that random searches are going to do much good at stopping suicide bombers, or that bans on random searches will help terrorists; but I acknowledge that some constitutional rules that the ACLU defends do at times protect terrorists as well as protecting law-abiding citizens.)

    What is in question here, indeed, is "the definition of freedom." There is lots of room for good faith disagreement about the scope of our freedoms. But that some people have a broader view than you do -- whether it relates to the right to bear arms, the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, the right to counsel, the right to spend one's money for political causes -- doesn't make them criminals, doesn't make them pro-criminal or pro-terrorist, and doesn't make their arguments frivolous.


Sure, Volokh's argument is largely directed at some twit claiming that the ACLU's arguments are often frivolous, but I thought the admonishments about calling them "pro-terrorist" were useful here. After all, it's only a short hop from "scumbag liberal."

ltl/fb 04-14-2006 06:47 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Gattigap
Or representing Limbaugh. Or others. C'mon, Slave, you're too smart for this bumper-sticker shit.

Here. Read this from Volokh, who's clearly no fan of the ACLU, and who's responding to claims made by a site you may well have written, Stop the ACLU Blog.


Sure, Volokh's argument is largely directed at some twit claiming that the ACLU's arguments are often frivolous, but I thought the admonishments about calling them "pro-terrorist" were useful here. After all, it's only a short hop from "scumbag liberal."
I thought pro-terrorist and liberal were synonyms?

Sexual Harassment Panda 04-14-2006 06:50 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by ltl/fb
I thought pro-terrorist and liberal were synonyms?
Used to be. Now it's "pro-terrorist" and "Halliburton shareholder".

ltl/fb 04-14-2006 06:54 PM

More on Iran
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
No. As the world's lone superpower, our police function gives us the right to decide who has declared war on whom. We also then have the right to intervene on neither, either or both sides. For more information, see http://www.newamericancentury.org.
Whee! The people who signed onto their statement of principles:

Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz

ltl/fb 04-14-2006 06:55 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sexual Harassment Panda
Used to be. Now it's "pro-terrorist" and "Halliburton shareholder".
Halliburton shareholders are patriots. Dick Cheney used to run it, or whatever. I think he masterminded their purchase of Brown & Root, or something. Brilliantly successful business move, by all accounts.

SlaveNoMore 04-14-2006 07:15 PM

More on Iran
 
Quote:

Sexual Harassment Panda
No. As the world's lone superpower, our police function gives us the right to decide who has declared war on whom. We also then have the right to intervene on neither, either or both sides. For more information, see http://www.newamericancentury.org.
Besides, as SHP will tell you, the fascist neocon theocrats currently running the US government are merely puppets for the Zionist Israelis anyway - so it's all merely form over substance.

SlaveNoMore 04-14-2006 07:23 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Gattigap
Or representing Limbaugh. Or others. C'mon, Slave, you're too smart for this bumper-sticker shit.

Here. Read this from Volokh, who's clearly no fan of the ACLU, and who's responding to claims made by a site you may well have written, Stop the ACLU Blog.
  • In fact, my sense is that most of the criticism that the ACLU faces comes because their arguments are too successful -- not only nonfrivolous, but actually ones that win in court...

    But in fact the ACLU often wins, and even when it doesn't, its arguments are generally quite plausible. For instance, the claim that random searches of people in subways are unconstitutional is an eminently plausible Fourth Amendment claim, perhaps even a winning one. Searches that aren't based on any individualized suspicion are usually unconstitutional; even some conservative Justices have said so. (See, e.g., City of Indianapolis v. Edmond, 531 U.S. 32 (2000) (Thomas, J., dissenting) ("I rather doubt that the Framers of the Fourth Amendment would have considered 'reasonable' a program of indiscriminate stops of individuals not suspected of wrongdoing."); Minnesota v. Dickerson, 508 U.S. 366 (1993) (Scalia, J., concurring) (expressing "doubt" as to whether even suspicion-based searches for weapons are constitutional, unless the suspicion rises to the relatively high level of "probable cause": "I frankly doubt, moreover, whether the fiercely proud men who adopted our Fourth Amendment would have allowed themselves to be subjected, on mere suspicion of being armed and dangerous, to such indignity").

    There are some exceptions, including one for airport searches. Perhaps courts should extend this exception to subway searches, especially aimed at finding bombs. But given the current law, the ACLU's argument is eminently credible.

    If you don't like the Fourth Amendment rules that make it possible for the ACLU to sue, fault the Justices who have developed those rules. (In some situations, fault the Framers for setting up the constitutional provisions based on which these rules have been developed; while the Fourth Amendment's ban on unreasonable searches doesn't clearly prohibit the New York searches, it doesn't clearly authorize them, either.) Or fault the Framers for maintaining the English system of justice, in which people have legal rights against the government, and are entitled to go to court to vindicate those rights, even when the majority believes (for good reason or bad) that the rights are dangerous to the common good. Or perhaps, at most, argue that while the ACLU has a legal right to do what it's doing, it ought to (presumably in highly unusual circumstances) refrain from exercising its rights.

    But stop calling them "criminal" for exercising their constitutional rights. Stop calling their lawsuits "frivolous" when the lawsuits bother you precisely because they may well prevail. Stop calling them "pro-terrorist" when there's absolutely no reason to think that they indeed favor terrorism, and lots of reason to think that they favor (whether soundly or misguidedly) legal rules -- such as limits on government power to search -- that unfortunately sometimes protect terrorists while at the same time protecting law-abiding citizens. (It's far from clear to me that random searches are going to do much good at stopping suicide bombers, or that bans on random searches will help terrorists; but I acknowledge that some constitutional rules that the ACLU defends do at times protect terrorists as well as protecting law-abiding citizens.)

    What is in question here, indeed, is "the definition of freedom." There is lots of room for good faith disagreement about the scope of our freedoms. But that some people have a broader view than you do -- whether it relates to the right to bear arms, the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures, the right to counsel, the right to spend one's money for political causes -- doesn't make them criminals, doesn't make them pro-criminal or pro-terrorist, and doesn't make their arguments frivolous.


Sure, Volokh's argument is largely directed at some twit claiming that the ACLU's arguments are often frivolous, but I thought the admonishments about calling them "pro-terrorist" were useful here. After all, it's only a short hop from "scumbag liberal."
Volokh, eh?

Here's his take on OSU:

Quote:

That's what Ohio State University (Mansfield) professors J.F. Buckley and Norman Jones are alleging, in a complaint that they have filed with the University. A conservative OSU reference librarian (Scott Savage) suggested that several books be included in the first-year reading program; one of the books -- The Marketing of Evil by David Kupelian -- is apparently anti-gay.

The professors claim in a formal complaint filed with OSU that this suggestion, and the librarian's arguments in its defense (which were apparently not otherwise anti-gay, not that this should matter), create a "hostile environment" for them based on their sexual orientation. (The complaint has been referred to as a sexual harassment complaint, but it's really a sexual orientation harassment complaint, see the first paragraph on page 2 of the Ohio State harassment policy.)

Here are copies of the relevant documents, attached to an Alliance Defend Fund letter written on behalf of the librarian. (The ADF, as readers may know, is a public interest law firm that generally approaches things from a cultural/religious conservative perspective.) My summary above relies on the copies of the documents, not on the ADF's own accounts.

The university is now investigating the complaints. It's quite sad, I think, that these university professors are responding to offensive ideas not just by arguing against them, but by trying to coercively suppress them (apparently, according to the ADF's letter, with considerable support from their colleagues). I expect that the university will promptly dismiss the complaint, since even under the university's own policy such speech is not prohibited -- among other reasons, the speech wasn't "based on a person's protected status," since the statements weren't about the complainants, and weren't targeted towards the complainants because of their sexual orientation. But it reflects badly on the complainants that the complaint is even being filed.

Oh, and one related item, from a message during this debate written by another professor, Hannibal Hamlin (no, not the Hannibal Hamlin): "On the matter of homophobia, I think you should be rather careful, Scott. OSU's policy on discrimination is not simply a matter of academic orthodoxy, but a matter of human rights." Yes, reference librarians, professors, students, everyone: On matters of certain viewpoints that are prohibited by university policies, we think you should be rather careful

ltl/fb 04-14-2006 07:29 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Volokh, eh?

Here's his take on OSU:
Oooooh, Ohio. I thought they were talking about Oklahoma.

Gattigap 04-14-2006 07:30 PM

that Ivory Tower is at it again...
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Volokh, eh?

Here's his take on OSU:
Well, it doesn't use the words "unfuckiungbelievable" or "scumbag liberal," but I'll grant you that Volokh supports you that the university professors are acting like twits.

I found this part of the Volokh quote interesting:
  • I expect that the university will promptly dismiss the complaint, since even under the university's own policy such speech is not prohibited -- among other reasons, the speech wasn't "based on a person's protected status," since the statements weren't about the complainants, and weren't targeted towards the complainants because of their sexual orientation. But it reflects badly on the complainants that the complaint is even being filed.

So the university may not go full-out in its defense of some dumbass, liberalscumbagproterrorist professors, and this wound of political correctness on the body politic may not be the chronic bleeder that conservatives had hoped. Sad.

Sexual Harassment Panda 04-14-2006 07:35 PM

More on Iran
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Besides, as SHP will tell you, the fascist neocon theocrats currently running the US government are merely puppets for the Zionist Israelis anyway - so it's all merely form over substance.
Not me. I'm just sittin' back, sipping Oban and watching the neocons implode with the greatest of amusement. Nobody is running the government these days - it's a rudderless ship.


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