Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

In a way, we should probably be reassured that the latest foiled plots involved airplanes. It could be read to suggest that the terrorists do not feel they are in a position to attack these softer targets.

Or perhaps it only suggests that they think airplanes make for better press. Regardless, it is only a matter of time.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Exactly. This seems so obvious to me. How can someone even argue with this?

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Have you compared the numbers of dead and injured on each side? Israel was not getting the worst of it, which is one reason it wanted to prolong the conflict to try to do damage to Hezbollah. A few weeks (?) later, this is not looking like the wisest strategy, since Israel appears to have overestimated the damage it was doing. To Hezbollah, if not to Lebanon.

To observe that our Middle East policies stirs up animus against us is not to suggest that we are the cause of all unhappiness and/or terrorism.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Because it seems a little strange to get your panties in too much of a bunch over a statement that didn't say anything new or surprising.

You're right on the PR (obviously, or we wouldn't be talking about it), but it is expected.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Are you really this obtuse? If someone refers to themself as a leader of the the Islamic community then why is it so crazy to see them as having a leadership position over someone in that community.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

I tried to avoid equating the two, only to have Hank put those words in my mouth. Did you not read those posts, or are you just trying to be irritating?

What you are now saying is that it's not enough that they condemn the sort of terrorism that offends us the most -- they also have to publicly state that that kind of terrorism is special -- it's worse than everything else in the world. Where does this obligation come from?

Which is worse: 3,000 people dead on 9/11, or 400,000 people dead in Darfur? 9/11 troubles me more, because it's closer to home, but I don't think that everyone should have to feel the same way.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

As a matter of PR, I agree with you.

If we are responding to what they said, rather than to how others will respond to what they said, I disagree for the reasons stated.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

This post implys that you agree that they one we are discussing did not condemn Islamist terrorism in the strongest possible terms. Don't you think it was a mistake not condemn Islamist terrorism in the strongest possible terms?

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Quite frankly, any number greater than 1 is more than enough.

I take it you find no issue with kidnapping soldiers and dragging them across national borderlines?

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

You're the expert on reading comprehension, apparently, so perhaps you can point out the sentence here where they refer to themselves as leaders of the Islamic community:

• Prime Minister, As British Muslims we urge you to do more to fight against all those who target civilians with violence, whenever and wherever that happens.
  
  It is our view that current British government policy risks putting civilians at increased risk both in the UK and abroad.
  
  To combat terror the government has focused extensively on domestic legislation. While some of this will have an impact, the government must not ignore the role of its foreign policy.
  
  The debacle of Iraq and now the failure to do more to secure an immediate end to the attacks on civilians in the Middle East not only increases the risk to ordinary people in that region, it is also ammunition to extremists who threaten us all.
  
  Attacking civilians is never justified. This message is a global one. We urge the Prime Minister to redouble his efforts to tackle terror and extremism and change our foreign policy to show the world that we value the lives of civilians wherever they live and whatever their religion.
  
  Such a move would make us all safer.

Another voice
 

Adel Darwish, writing in Asharq Alawsat, says:

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

As a question of PR? I'm really not interesting in that question. I have a good sense of how their letter was received among lawyers who post on this board. I have no idea how it was received in the UK, apart from Slave's post.

What would the strongest possible terms be? They could say, acts of terrorism offend us more than eating rats. That's pretty strong. But then someone could point out that they didn't say, acts of terrorism offend us more than eating rats while watching Kathy Bates in a hot tub in About Schmidt, and -- voila -- again they've failed to denounce terrorism in the strongest possible terms.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

gosh! you're right they don't. hey, wait. didn't they like, you know, sign it? did they list any titles or anything by their names? how do you get to be in Parliment?

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

but it's really the fault of an educational system that ghettozies people of non-European descent into shoddy schools.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

More than zero.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Is it a number more than 1? I didn't think so, but am willing to be corrected.

And yes, I find issue with killing and kidnapping soldiers, I'm just not sure that I view bombing cities to be an appropriate response.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Israel attempted surgically strikes at the enemy. They alreted civilians ahead of time that they were going to attack.

That the enemy cares naught about civilian life, that it uses human shields and puts rocket launchers on the roofs of buildings it fills with handicapped children, is a bit problematic when trying to minimize collateral damage.

What's the over/under on this ceasefire anyway? I give it until Thursday.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Sometimes, when you ask a question, you do so because the answer is obvious. Here, I said CAIR equates blowing up passenger jets with killing an attack on a military installation that kills an innocent bystander -- because that is what their statement does. Then I said "do you?", knowing full well that the answer is "of course not," and thus hoping to point out the distinction between what you know to be right and what you posited as being an appropriate, positive statement by CAIR.

It was kind of like saying "what they are really saying is this. Is that really what you believe?" Presumably, you would not assume that I was accusing you of believing "that."



The obligation to be leaders of their communities. When they equate the bombing of passenger jets with attacks on military installations, they teach that the latter justifies the former.

And no -- they did not "condemn the sort of terrorism that offends us the most." They published an anemic statement that essentially reads "we think killing people is bad."


Nor do I.

On the other hand, while Darfur troubles me a lot more than Abu Ghraib, as an American I feel it is my obligation to speak out against Abu Ghraib. And would feel that much more strongly if I were a leader of Americans.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

No, I think it goes until the end of August. No better time for a little live ammo than Labor Day Weekend and the week before, when Americans won't be paying attention. Let the UN guys back in the day after labor day.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

But you're so clever -- you figured out that they represent those parliamentary districts populated solely by crazy Islamic men.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

The rest of the world falls for Hezbollah PR, but you've chosen to fall for Israeli PR. "Surgical strikes?" And a number of Lebanese were killed on the roads, so you can understand why the alerts might have been less than fully effective.

It's worse than "cares naught about." Hezbollah is strengthened by the fatalities.

That's an excellent question.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Solely? Slave said only 30%. And I said 1%, but 100% of the crazy 1% live there-

At this point I quit. You can't be this dense. You are nothing more than Penske, w/o the humor- or at least the crazed glint in the eye.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

No it doesn't, Sidd -- it "condemn[s] all acts of terrorism, whether carried out by individuals, groups or states." It continues to say: "We repudiate anyone or any group that plans or carries out a terrorist act. We welcome early actions by law enforcement authorities against credible threats to the safety of the traveling public."

You are reading into that first sentence an assumption that the reference to state-sponsored terrorism means what you say. If a Bush admininistration official used the same words, though, you would think of Iran or North Korea. The release is titled, "CAIR STATEMENT ON ALLEGED AIRLINE TERROR PLOT." Not "CAIR STATEMENT EQUATING ALLEGED AIRLINE TERROR PLOT WITH AWFUL THINGS DONE BY ISRAEL."


I agree with you there. But although I am a Christian, I don't feel an obligation to speak out when Eric Rudolph kills a doctor (e.g.).

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

See ya. Come on back when you don't feel like being a jackass.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

What % of people had to agree that Penske was a net-negative before RT kicked him off? I want to be upfront with you. I am starting a petition and need to know how many names I need to get.

FOX journalists abducted in Gaza.
 

Another bad PR move.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Unless he is right, and then that is all he has to say.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

If you were a leader of the chuch to which he professed allegiance, and if he was one of dozens who professed such allegiance and carried out the same kinds of attacks, and if their conduct was supported by many people with in your congregation, then you would either speak out against their conduct in particular*, or I would say that you were part of the problem.



*by "in particular" I mean not saying "killing is bad, whether done by bombers or doctors"


eta: Strike "congregation," insert "denomination."

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Your song and dance is lame, and reflects a serious lack of anything serious to say.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

OK. I agree. But I don't think that any Muslim, or a Muslim MP, as such has the sufficiently tight relationship with the terrorists/criminals that you are getting at here such that they have some obligation to speak out.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

I am not going to do any research (what else is new, eh?) but i would be willing to bet that there was many a "Christian" church leader who said exactly that about Rudolph.

Can we kill them all?
 

On (3), just non-citizens? Or do we get rid of citizens who are Hezbollah (sp) supporters and whatnot? How do we identify them?

Is Hezbollah (sp) characterized as a terrorist group? Because I thought after 9/11 support fo terrorists is a crime, and that most non-citizens can be deported for crimes. So not necessarily seeing why we can't already do (3).

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Argh. I think you are being deliberately dense.

This is not about who has a "tight relationship" with the bombers. They are too far gone. The way to deal with them is a bullet.

This is about who has influence with the community from which those bombers come -- a frightfully large number of which seem to support those bombers.

Once again -- community leaders need to speak against the wrongful acts committed by members of their community and in the name of their community. Whether the community is a country, a faith, a political party, or whatever else. We have seen shamefully little of that from Muslim leaders.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

Ironically, in a coincidentally serendiptuous way, I was about to post that, despite the Bunifa fucking over, npi, that you could have my proxy on the issues of the day. I proactively excercise a prior rescindment of such intended proxy.

Why so much hate? Maybe the Imans of your community are affecting you? Is hate contagious?

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

I am willing to bet that you are right. And I think that those leaders are at fault for such crimes.


And yet, I am also willing to bet that many more mainstream Christian leaders spoke out against Eric Rudolph and his ilk.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

This business of attacking moderates for not speaking out more against extremists is not useful. I would suggest that attacking moderates for being on the side of terrorists does strengthen them, or induce them to speak out more. It does tend to lump them all together at a point when we ought to be finding ways to marginalize the extremists. And it's a sort of cheap talking point that the fighting keyboardists can use to prove how tough they are on terrorism. I agree that it would be a better world if the moderate Muslims spoke out more. If the question is, how do we strengthen moderates Muslims so that they will speak out more, I'm not sure what the right answer is, but I feel fairly comfortable that this isn't it.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

My understanding was that there was no threshold number, but the final tally on the petition was 71%, although that included my socks.

Heads cut off
 

w/r/t slave's statement about peopel who want to cut off his head on TV, I think he's safe from that if he doesn't leave the US. Whoever suggested he leave the greater SF area is correct -- I fear for his sanity/heart attack risk if he stays. Maybe one of the wilder areas of Colorado? Perhaps adjacent to some white supremacist organization? I don't think he's white supremacist; I just would like to see how much his opinions on stuff are really reactions to what he sees going on in his immediate vicinity.

Ditto for Penske.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

And your song and dance and that of your pals from the blogosphere remains seriously out of touch with the American populace, which will again be shown to y'all, whether you can absorb the lesson or not, come November.

Do yourselves a favor and shut the hell up.............
 

We shall see. I prefer to blame the messengers, not the message.

eta: If I wanted my thoughts to be accepted and ratified by the voters, I would run for office. I prefer to hang out here instead. I understand that "the left doesn't understand terror" may work well as a political attack, but I'm sick of answering such crap here. If you want to spout that crap to people who will applaud, go hang out with the freepers.