Kerry on the war on terror
 

You're down to 'Hussein was a bad man.' No WMD. No ties to Al Qaeda. No threat to his neighbors. But Bush won't really acknowledge any of this. You can't pass this test if you can't acknowledge the truth.

I will say that I have been pleasantly surprised by the number of Republicans who have been willing to say in the heat of an election year that they cannot vote for Bush again because he's fucking things up so much.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

The death/maiming toll in Iraq under the coalition is still less than under SH. However, now US soldiers are in the death toll. That is not a good thing, but I believe that there would be more attacks on US soil if it weren't for our invasion of Iraq.

Agreed. My money is on liberty. The human soul craves it. I think liberty and democracy and a viable middle class will win out in the end. I just hope I am alive to see it.

The average Joe driving around in his SUV will be willing to send US soldiers to die to defend our access to oil rather than give up their gas guzzlers. That is morally unconsciencable (sp?). But we can rely on Israel to do things the US public won't support, like bombing Iraq's nuclear facilities. I don't think you can get the US public to support an attack on Iran's nuclear plants. Israel will do it, though. Long live Israel.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

Ty, when they say that, what they really mean is "we now have some pretty cool airbases to hit Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and Turkey (if they start acting too Slami) without the need to ask for pesky flyover rights." I don't know why they don't come right out and say it. And I don't see how this makes much difference if we can't properly maintain the equipment we have over there.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

Therein lies the main reason I am a Rep. Reps stand on principle and will abandon a candidate if they feel he or she isn't acting on principle or is not the right person for the job. Principle means more than partisanship to most Reps that I know. I am proud to stand with them.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

FWIW, Kerry is getting a smaller percentage of the votes of Democrats than Bush is getting from Republicans, at least according to the last numbers I saw.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

I'd like to see that religious abortion/terrorist breeding ground known as Saudi Arabia blown right of the face of the fucking earth.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

Except for 2001, the record isn't so bad.

I hope to see it too, but this is simply wishful thinking. Events do not indicate that Iraq will be a thriving democracy with a robust middle class any time soon. I don't know how old you are, but I'm inclined to go with the over. Perhaps Less can help us with the line.

Then why are the Rs giving them tax breaks to own them?

I'll admit that I kind of like Israel doing ballsy stuff like this. Better them than us. Perhaps "O'Kerrystein" can get them to do something about Iran?

Kerry on the war on terror
 

Sure, if by Kerrey voter you mean those who aren't journalists and who aren't politically active in a campaign.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

While not intimately familiar with the tenets of Wahhabiism, I actually don't think that they're so big on abortion. FWIW.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

This is wrong and should be stopped immediately.

If only. American Jews by and large are Dems and, although they support Israel in general, will self-flagellate when Israel does ballsy stuff. Time for more American Jews to become Reps.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

SA is an abortion in a metaphorical sense, a pox on this Earth if you will.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

I'm no lexicol . . . lexicogra . . . word guy (Atticus?), but I'm pretty sure "Executive" (the branch of gov't that the president heads up, for club) is derived from the same word as "execution." Whatever W's professes while being annointed with Ashcroft's oil, we don't just elect a bundle of prinicples. We also need to be concerned about the ability to execute the policies derived from these prinicples. This administration has proven its inability to make its decisions produce desired results. Even if you agree with his prinicples, couldn't the execution have been better?

And couldn't you have found someone more principled than W?

Kerry on the war on terror
 

You don't need AG for this one; you need a patent attorney. Word is lexicographer and every patentee is entitled to be his own lexicographer. Without said concept, us patent attorneys wouldn't be able to make a living.

are you sleep walking again?


Well, as far as sticking to his principles, few are better than W. However, my choice was McCain. I lost.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

Possibly. Are those implants?

W said his favorite political philosopher is Jesus Christ. Please explain how the actions of this administration (both in governing and in campaigning) have been consistent with the teachings of Christ. "Being crucified for our sins and being president are both a lot of hard work" is not an acceptable answer.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

No, that was my ass, but it's all good.

I like you better when you are drunk.

Oh, and in case you were wondering what I think, I think Jesus was a wimp.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

World religions seminar was a few years back for me, but wasn't it Jesus who said it is everyone's duty to go jihadi on non-believers, and chop off their heads.

the French wouldn't approve this move
 

JFK..........

http://homepage.mac.com/cfj/.Picture...-soccer-01.jpg

You have to wonder what the Kennedys really thought of this guy. He can't play football (or fotbol), and he looks like a dork on a boat.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

Its called selective piety, and there's more of it in this country these days than there is good top soil.

Just take a look at these bishops calling anyone who votes for Kerry a sinner. They're cut from the same cloth as the mullahs. If I had a brick for every Catholic who has a hard on for the death penalty, but vehemently professes to oppose abortion, I could build a wall from here to Seattle. These "moral" people aren't moral at all - they're picking and choosing the morals that suit their little views of how they think society should operate. They'd have a 16 year old kid jailed for getting an abortion, or deny stem cell research, but they have no problem executing people. I don't know Jesus, but from what I've read, the first thing I think he'd deal with were he to return to Earth would be the death penalty. Oh, and I think he was against wars, contrary to the Catholic Church's horseshit policy that there can be "just wars" (Sorry, Padre, Jesus said 'turn the other cheek' at ALL times). Call me crazy... thats just how I read his views. Don't agree? Read the book. Its all in there.

All these fucking people, every last one of them, has a huge mouthful of shit about how much they oppose stem cells or abortion, but as sure as the sun rising tomorrow, every last one of these motherfuckers will do exactly the opposite when its his daughter who's knocked up or his father who has Alzheimer's. At least some of us are honest.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

Great minds think alike.

Pot to kettle: You're black!
 

Confounding all sages
Battles of curses and kings
Warriors stride onward

S_A_M

Kerry on the war on terror
 

The issue is not whether the war wwas predicated on a lie. The issue is whether having the war over there is better than having it over here. Bush is at a terrible disadvantage because he can't say "I lied because I needed a pretext to take the war off our shores", but that's what he did. All these people ripping Bush for lying (of course he lied) miss the greater point. The lie was needed to make sure that the next battles with AQ take place in AQ's yard, not ours. It is significant that nothing has happened here since 9/11. That is an accomplishment.

You knew it was a lie. I knew it was a lie. The world knew it was a lie. We're past that point. Whats important is "Are you safer now because Bush used the lie to move the war?" I tend to think yes, but I also think AQ is shrewd. bin Laden knows Iraq is a head fake. He's not dicking around with idiots like Zarqawi. He's planning AQ's next attack on our shores.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

If this is the issue that our little national referendum this November is based on, Kerry wins.

With Colin Powell now doing the backtrack and apologia for the sake of his reputation, it is clear that Bush failed the standard but has somehow decided that persistence is more important than frankness.

Pot to kettle: You're black!
 

One of my prescriptions for social security would be on the funding side rather than the expenditure side. I think the fact that social security is funded solely from the wage base has a decided impact on our competitiveness (it's a cost business abroad often don't bear) and results in a regressive tax. I'd take the cap off and apply the tax to unearned income as well, and either use the additional funds to lower the tax rate or to remove the employer side wage tax. Of course, Moynihan fought this battle for years, with very little to show, so I'm probably not heading for Congress, either.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

If you don't see that his vote against the $87 million was nothing more than a way to get some cover from Dean, there's no reason to have any further discussion. He voted no to the bill, and would have voted no to any bill the president proposed, because he needed cover. He was one of 12 fucking senators to vote no, which indicates that the "Bush Bill," while imperfect, was a signable bill.

Perhaps, but that doesn't mean the candidate for president should do it in that manner. You keep confusing the average citizen, even the average senator, with the CIC.

Funny, why doesn't this same rationale apply to the French? I know I know. Because when Bush does it is a failure of diplomacy, but when Kerry does it it's pointing out the truth.

He's called them the coalition of the coerced and the bribed. That speaks for itself.

It's very confusing to me. What does this mean? How do you justifiy it? To whom do you justify it? What if you can justify it to your country man but not your allies?

Which is 1 issue more than Kerry's "I'm not Bush" platform.

Of course it does, but it also should involve the military, and I don't believe Kerry believes this.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

You must be really old, because it's only 5-10 years away.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

It's happening with the younger generation. The older generation will never change.

Not Sure Who to Believe
 

Kerry on the war on terror
 

my neighborhood=lots of Jewish people who've lived here for generations=Kerry signs.

neighborhood 1/2 mile away=lots of russian immigrant Jewish people= Bush signs.

Kerry on the war on terror
 

This sentiment combined with this one:

is what confuses me about people.

If the terrorists who attacked us weren't connected to SH and Iraq, how is it that you can say in one breath that it is significant that nothing has happened here since 9/11 and in the next say, Osama is planning his next attack on our shores?

It seems to me that Al Quaeda was going to lay low over here after pulling off 9/11 because they're not stupid. They know we're sensitive to things we weren't sensitive to before. That happens no matter who is in office and no matter how many colors are on the terrify-people-chart.

The fact is, because of the type of attacks they engage in, we are not safer over here. They're just waiting til we get lazy again. But you can't live in a constant, indefinite state of fear, despite Cheney's best efforts. That's why terrorists choose these kinds of attacks. It's very difficult to defend.

After 9/11, for like 6 months, security was tight at my building. Everyone had to be credentialed to gain access. Security was visible and posted all over -- not just at every entrance. Now, I could swipe anyone's access card and go up because security just doesn't pay attention anymore. It's all bullshit anyway. If someone wanted to blow the building up, they wouldn't be trying to get upstairs. They'd plant the bomb in the areas everyone has unlimited access to.

Bush isn't taking the war overseas. He is engaging in this war to make people feel better. He is saying, "I'm going after those damn Ay-rabs," and watching people line up behind him happy in this fiction of safety. When he wants to energize them, he scares them. When he wants to build himself up, he talks about safety. People eat it up because they're stupid.

You can't fight a worldwide network by picking one location and trying to take it over. That makes absolutely no sense. After 9/11 we had the sympathy and support of the entire world. Every country wanted to help. Bush took that and turned it all the way around. If there are terrorist cells all over the world, it seems to me that the best plan would have been to take advantage of the good will that we had from other countries after 9/11 -- use it to hunt terrorists down and destroy them. You don't destroy that good will and, at the same time, create recruits by engaging in a crusade in a country that posed no imminent threat.

I don't want to hear the SH was a bad man argument. If that was the rationale for taking him out, Bush and friends would have used it as the justification to go to war before we went to war. We took him out because Bush wanted to take him out. 9/11 was the excuse.

TM

Kerry on the war on terror
 

Seb's position on this is probably his alone, at least here.

The "bush lied" part misses that everyone, the UN, Blix, everyone thought the guy had the weapons. He was bluffing and for a decade everyone bought the bluff. But even if he had the weapons, and we removed them, much of what you said is correct. The real fight is catching guys in small groups, like happens every week, still, in countries that are "mad" at us.

what is BS about "Iraq is a distraction" and "we should have waited longer then we'd have 200K troops to throw at the real problem" is that we don't need 200K troops to attack the real problem. the only possible place where even 10000 troops could be used would be maybe in Pakistan or the Philippines, and both governments, while friendly don't want our troops there.

your other point about security is also true. There is nothing to prevent someone who has the mindset and explosives from walking on a crowded DC or NY subway car tonight. Guys willing to blow themselves up are a tough problem to solve.

Excommunicated
 

Despite my not really setting foot in a Catholic Church for non-wedding masses in the last 15 or so years, I sorta still consider myself a Catholic. No more. There are efforts in the works to hunt down and excommunicate pro-choice Catholics, and there's apparently support from the Vatican on this.

I'm sorta shocked. I'm not sure that this is a can of worms that the Catholic Church really should open. Attendance is down as it is.

On the other hand, I do like Catholic rituals. What do you wear to your own excommunication?

Kerry on the war on terror
 

Hi TM. We cannot secure every high-rise, every plant, every church, every port, every terminal and so on. Its simply an impossible task. This should in no way be construed as a threat against anyone, but I was taught long ago that any defensive security measure can be overcome and every targetted individual can be killed. Which is to say, there is a flip side to the security you describe, and its what *some* complain about.

The Federal government has investigated everybody and their brother. They've put creeper programs on the internet. They've set up overly-broad watchlists. They've set up threat detectors for entire cities. They've fingerprinted every single visitor from certain countries. Etc. etc. etc. At the end of the day, our goal here is to have a fairly comphrehensive domestic intelligence system in place. Since the frantic days after 9/11, you'll notice that the government has moved more and more towards preemptive measures in arresting groups of suspected terrorists and individuals. No more, we received information that they were conducting war games in the Virginia woods. More like, she's illegal, she crossed from Mexico, she was carrying a lot of money she couldn't justify, and she's on our middle east watchlist. She's deported.

Which is to say, I think the federal government is taking a lot more action to track networks and individuals before they come through the lobby of your building. Its not foolproof, but neither are defensive (as compared to preemptive) security measures.

Hello

Excommunicated
 

Don't polls, at least in the US, suggest that overall catholics views on abortion generally mirror the entire US? That is, half the catholic church in the US would be excommunicated?

As for clothing, I'd wear a carpenter's belt, with a hammer and nails.

Excommunicated
 

something made of virgin wool?

Kerry on the war on terror
 

I guess this is where the disagreement lies. I think that there was evidence out there (like SH himself trying to keep weapons inspectors at bay) that made one think that he was up to something. But there was also no evidence of the weapons actually existing. At best, Bush and Co. strained their reading of the evidence we did have to make it sound like there was no doubt that there were weapons. At worst, his administration out-and-out lied because he wanted to attack somebody and SH was as arab and annoying as anyone he could think of.

But that's not what we needed. We needed someone who could look at the evidence and not act on gut. We needed someone who would keep our collective eye on what was important. We needed someone to be responsible and focused. We got someone who wanted to strike back. That's cool. But don't just strike out for the sake of hitting someone. Use your fucking brains.

I think if the President had put $87 billion into uncovering terrorist cells all over the world and was successful first in the countries that couldn't wait to step up and show support, that when something like Madrid happened, it would only strengthen everyone's resolve. At a certain point, Pakistan and the Philippines cave because the whole world is putting the pressure on. Now, everyone is trying to distance themselves from us. If Iraq was the only problem, that would be fine. But how the hell are we going to find these people when they are spread all over the world and we piss on the leaders of the countries they're in every chance we get?

TM

Excommunicated
 

Its obviously a matter of the public and noticeable stance. If someone gets an abortion, the Catholic church would (I guess) say they could be forgiven if and when they atone. And Not_Me says a lot of these women do regret their decision (not all).

Its another matter entirely standing up on national TV and saying "I'm a Catholic, and I think everybody should have a partial birth abortion, in fact I hear they are fun for everybody". Obviously, that's way more than Kerry said, but it would be impossible to make his actual public position more contrary to the Church's.

RT, no offense, but I'm not sure they'll bother to ex-communicate you. They are sending a clear signal to many Catholic Democrats (including numerous priests and nuns --sometimes ex-- I know) that it is impossible for a person to be considered a Catholic and still take a stance that is so entirely opposed to a fundamental position of the Church.

I will accept any corrections Atticus makes to this.

What will y'all call yourselves now? Protestants?

Hello

Excommunicated
 

What is the position of the church--that one must believe no abortions should occur and to work towards that end through all (lawful?) means possible? Seems to me that Kerry has said (or could be saying) -- I don't like abortion, I don't believe in it, but I do believe that each individual must make that decision for herself. Is that inconsistent with the Church's position?

Excommunicated
 

That evil, hypocritical motherfucker. Is he going after (Catholic) Governor Jeb Bush for signing death warrants in Florida?

(I won't even mention all of the violations of the "social justice" teachings by economic conservatives.)

Kerry on the war on terror
 

I thought W didn't let the opinions of other countries determine our national security policies.

Excommunicated
 

I'm not entirely certain that they oppose abortion in every case (there may be an exception for e.g., a serious threat to a mother), but I think the "I do believe that each individual must make that decision for herself" thing is inconsistent.