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Tyrone Slothrop 10-25-2006 11:07 AM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
What will the make-up of the Senate and the House be after the November elections? Who's going to win? Who's going to lose? And how about those gubernatorial races?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-25-2006 11:31 AM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
What will the make-up of the Senate and the House be after the November elections? Who's going to win? Who's going to lose? And how about those gubernatorial races?
So, Ty, what are your bets?

Mine:

Senate: 50 Rs, 48 Ds, 2 Is who caucus with Ds
House: 218 Rs, 217 Ds

Pickups in both, but not enough to put the Ds over the top. Dems pick up house control in special elections over the next year.

No strong views on the Guvs at this point.

SlaveNoMore 10-25-2006 11:40 AM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Tyrone Slothrop
What will the make-up of the Senate and the House be after the November elections? Who's going to win? Who's going to lose? And how about those gubernatorial races?
Dem wins House

GOP wins Senate

We all lose.

Gattigap 10-25-2006 11:46 AM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Dem wins House

GOP wins Senate

We all lose.
Wow. Rangel really does have you spooked.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-25-2006 12:04 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Dem wins House

GOP wins Senate

We all lose.
2. But we don't really lose. The people who lose are those who vote Dem thinking the Dems can somehow recapture a New Deal wage package and benefits for them.

Those days, those benefits, those wages - gone. Burned up for the next 200 years, until foreign labor costs rise to meet American labor costs.

The Dems are the most hideous liars of all - they're telling the entitlement junkies who vote for them that they can protect wages and "win" something for the middle class. As though they could fight global economic forces...

Sidd Finch 10-25-2006 12:13 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
2. But we don't really lose. The people who lose are those who vote Dem thinking the Dems can somehow recapture a New Deal wage package and benefits for them.

Those days, those benefits, those wages - gone. Burned up for the next 200 years, until foreign labor costs rise to meet American labor costs.

The Dems are the most hideous liars of all - they're telling the entitlement junkies who vote for them that they can protect wages and "win" something for the middle class. As though they could fight global economic forces...
Pfeh. About the most they'll do is put a minimum wage raise on the table. I know that minimum wage laws threaten the end of civilization, but stay calm -- it's only a threat.

As for Iraq, etc. -- about all the Dems can do is raise questions and a fuss. Hopefully, they'll do that in a way that forces the admin to be a little more rational and a little more honest. (Viz. Bush, today, acknowledging that maybe things in Iraq aren't going all that splendidly -- and not blaming it on the media.)

Hopefully the Dems won't proceed to organize a circular firing squad.

Gattigap 10-25-2006 12:18 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
(Viz. Bush, today, acknowledging that maybe things in Iraq aren't going all that splendidly -- and not blaming it on the media.)

Interesting. We've gone from "Message: I care" to "Message: I know."

Secret_Agent_Man 10-25-2006 12:19 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Pfeh. About the most they'll do is put a minimum wage raise on the table. I know that minimum wage laws threaten the end of civilization, but stay calm -- it's only a threat.

As for Iraq, etc. -- about all the Dems can do is raise questions and a fuss. Hopefully, they'll do that in a way that forces the admin to be a little more rational and a little more honest. (Viz. Bush, today, acknowledging that maybe things in Iraq aren't going all that splendidly -- and not blaming it on the media.)

Hopefully the Dems won't proceed to organize a circular firing squad.
I'm putting a lot of faith in Nancy Pelosi for that, and I hope I'm not wrong.

I think that, despite Rangel's desires and Slave's fears, Pelosi wouldn't let him cut off war funding (if only because it would ultimately be politically devastating for the Dems and she is smart enough to see that). Force some compromises, yes -- actual negotiations between politicians of different parties. Radical freaking thought.

S_A_M

SlaveNoMore 10-25-2006 01:23 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Secret_Agent_Man
I'm putting a lot of faith in Nancy Pelosi for that, and I hope I'm not wrong.

I think that, despite Rangel's desires and Slave's fears, Pelosi wouldn't let him cut off war funding (if only because it would ultimately be politically devastating for the Dems and she is smart enough to see that). Force some compromises, yes -- actual negotiations between politicians of different parties. Radical freaking thought.

S_A_M
Charlie - besides always being a hoot on the talk circuit - is always good for the big ceremonial act.

Remember, this is the guy that put up draft legislation a year or two back.

Replaced_Texan 10-25-2006 01:30 PM

The only thing that'll happen in the next two years if one of the chambers flips will be the months of endless hearings and the coverage of people trying to dodge congressional subpeonas using "executive privilege" as their excuse.

Spanky 10-25-2006 03:22 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch
Pfeh. About the most they'll do is put a minimum wage raise on the table. I know that minimum wage laws threaten the end of civilization, but stay calm -- it's only a threat.
If this were only true. They can't put up all sorts of trade barriers and restrictions to try and prevent outsourcing etc. and in the end they will just hurt our competitiveness"

Quote:

Originally posted by Sidd Finch As for Iraq, etc. -- about all the Dems can do is raise questions and a fuss. Hopefully, they'll do that in a way that forces the admin to be a little more rational and a little more honest. (Viz. Bush, today, acknowledging that maybe things in Iraq aren't going all that splendidly -- and not blaming it on the media.)

Hopefully the Dems won't proceed to organize a circular firing squad.
All they will do is cut off funding and encourage the insurgents. Then Iraq will become the quagmire they are pretending it is now (we haven't even gotten to ten percent of the casualties we have had in every other war this century) - except of course Guld War One. If you assume the war has cost 300 billion, that is just a little over ten percent of one years budget. We spend more money on farm subsidies. In terms of percentages of GNP by far the cheapest war this century - except of course Gulf War I.

Spanky 10-25-2006 03:25 PM

My Bet
 
My bet

52 Rs in Senate.
221 Rs in the House.

Secret_Agent_Man 10-25-2006 03:43 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Charlie - besides always being a hoot on the talk circuit - is always good for the big ceremonial act.

Remember, this is the guy that put up draft legislation a year or two back.
Not saying he wouldn't try it.

S_A_M

Secret_Agent_Man 10-25-2006 03:49 PM

My Bet
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
My bet

52 Rs in Senate.
221 Rs in the House.
That's about what I bet Hank (1 month board support).

Come to think of it, I'm not sure what his counter-position was -- except that I might be wrong . . . wpp.

S_A_M

sebastian_dangerfield 10-25-2006 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Replaced_Texan
The only thing that'll happen in the next two years if one of the chambers flips will be the months of endless hearings and the coverage of people trying to dodge congressional subpeonas using "executive privilege" as their excuse.
2. Repeat of 97-99.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-25-2006 05:01 PM

My Bet
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
My bet

52 Rs in Senate.
221 Rs in the House.
I like you even more now that I know you've access to really good weed. I'll be visiting.

Spanky 10-25-2006 05:03 PM

My Bet
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
I like you even more now that I know you've access to really good weed. I'll be visiting.
My door is always open to you. Although I charge double for people that hail from fly over states.

SlaveNoMore 10-25-2006 05:13 PM

My Bet
 
Quote:

sebastian_dangerfield
I like you even more now that I know you've access to really good weed. I'll be visiting.
If you're visiting the cow-town where Spanky lives, you'll need it.

[come to think of it, this explains the 3 foot jack rabbit sightings]

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 10-25-2006 05:27 PM

Senate: 51R/47D+2I
House: 216R/219D

Spanky 10-25-2006 08:38 PM

My Bet
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
If you're visiting the cow-town where Spanky lives, you'll need it.

[come to think of it, this explains the 3 foot jack rabbit sightings]
It is a cow town, but what is even more screwed up is that you can't buy a one bedroom house for less than a million dollars in this cow town.

SlaveNoMore 10-25-2006 10:18 PM

Quote:

Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Senate: 51R/47D+2I
House: 216R/219D
Related question.

How many of these contests are going to be settled by litigation?

Tyrone Slothrop 10-25-2006 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Related question.

How many of these contests are going to be settled by litigation?
Can I say that it's just fucked up how (a) crappy and (b) politicized our elections officials are in so many places?

sebastian_dangerfield 10-26-2006 01:30 PM

I Wonder
 
How the Democrats would answer if I asked them to list 5 policies which would counter this meathook reality:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...439766,00.html

ETA: For purposes of the exercise, protectionist measures cannot be utilized. (since they're patently absurd responses).


Quote:

Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Can I say that it's just fucked up how (a) crappy and (b) politicized our elections officials are in so many places?

Cletus Miller 10-26-2006 01:48 PM

I Wonder
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
How the Democrats would answer
Why just the Dems? How have the Republicans answered that reality?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-26-2006 02:40 PM

I Wonder
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
How the Democrats would answer if I asked them to list 5 policies which would counter this meathook reality:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...439766,00.html

ETA: For purposes of the exercise, protectionist measures cannot be utilized. (since they're patently absurd responses).
Speaking for myself, here's some I'd like to see:

(i) Embrace the brain drain -- open up more immigration from India, China and other countries for tech and scientific workers, students, entrepreneurs;

(ii) Move the social security tax burden to the general tax base -- most countries don't impose this cost on goods being exported; we ought to find a way to shift it as well; it's a regressive tax as well;

(iii) Teach more foreign languages and at younger ages;

(iv) Comprehensive education reform to encourage more creativity and problem solving, including more equitable funding and less teaching to the test;

(v) Focus on planting the seeds in industries that will play to strength - like biotech (see PB discussion on stem cells). The private sector can take the products out to market, but the basic research has often been accomplished here in academia, research hospitals, and with government support, and that needs to continue. Putting up artificial barriers to reseach has to end.

I'll let you work out the details. But tell me what the Rs have accomplished on this score with both houses and the oval office?

Hank Chinaski 10-26-2006 02:54 PM

I Wonder
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
(i) Embrace the brain drain -- open up more immigration from India, China and other countries for tech and scientific workers, students, entrepreneurs;
we actually educate tons of tech and science workers. a problem is a high percentage are from foreign countries. It gets especially high when one looks at grad degrees. I always thought it was because US students get a BS and have a decent job here. Foreign students are not in a hurry to go home, so they stay for 1 more degree.

This is why patent attorneys have such lucratives careers. It is hard for young people to resist the lure of a decent job and continue in school.

Tax breaks or loan relief for US citizens who get grad degrees.

Quote:

(v) Focus on planting the seeds in industries that will play to strength - like biotech (see PB discussion on stem cells). The private sector can take the products out to market, but the basic research has often been accomplished here in academia, research hospitals, and with government support, and that needs to continue. Putting up artificial barriers to reseach has to end.
and this will help the old middle class- those with a HS diploma- how?


Mmmm, Burger (C.J.) 10-26-2006 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Related question.

How many of these contests are going to be settled by litigation?
Are the Rs still fighting the Texas ruling not to place DeLay's successor candidate on the ballot?

And are they going to drop the fight to get Foley's replacement on the ballot?

Because that's two there.

Replaced_Texan 10-26-2006 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mmmm, Burger (C.J.)
Are the Rs still fighting the Texas ruling not to place DeLay's successor candidate on the ballot?

And are they going to drop the fight to get Foley's replacement on the ballot?

Because that's two there.
The ads telling voters how to write in "S-H-E-L-L-E-Y S-E-K-U-L-A G-I-B-B-S" on the electronic ballot have been kinda funny.

Sidd Finch 10-26-2006 07:43 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
Charlie - besides always being a hoot on the talk circuit - is always good for the big ceremonial act.

Remember, this is the guy that put up draft legislation a year or two back.
Yes, and what exactly happened to that bill? My quick Google search reveals that it failed by a vote of 402 to 2, with even Rangel voting against.

Do you really expect that Rangel will seriously try -- not just talk about, but try -- to cut off funding for troops in battle? Or that, if he does try, it'll get anywhere?

Sidd Finch 10-26-2006 07:47 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
If this were only true. They can't put up all sorts of trade barriers and restrictions to try and prevent outsourcing etc. and in the end they will just hurt our competitiveness"
Wow -- the House really has an awful lot of power. I had no idea.

Especially if it has a slim majority of Dems, who as we know are uniformly disciplined and always march in step.


Quote:

All they will do is cut off funding and encourage the insurgents. Then Iraq will become the quagmire they are pretending it is now (we haven't even gotten to ten percent of the casualties we have had in every other war this century) - except of course Guld War One. If you assume the war has cost 300 billion, that is just a little over ten percent of one years budget. We spend more money on farm subsidies. In terms of percentages of GNP by far the cheapest war this century - except of course Gulf War I.

This is such a crock of shit that even you should be able to figure that out. How many Dems have actually called for cutting off funding?

As for encouraging the insurgents -- I thought that was Bush's plan? Y'know, "bring it on"?

And as for the cost of the war, it's exceeded projections by a factor of--- 10? 100? To argue now that "it's still kinda cheap" is pretty lame, even for you. And is it cheaper than Kosovo? Afghanistan? I mean, you aren't even right about the "this century" part, and the century is only 6 years old.

sebastian_dangerfield 10-26-2006 08:47 PM

I Wonder
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Cletus Miller
Why just the Dems? How have the Republicans answered that reality?
They haven't. They've told people "You're on your own. This is a global market reality. Find a way to survive." A lot of Americans don't want to hear that. So the Democrats offer these people futile salves like min wage increases, or vague allusions to protectionist measures.

It's a trick question. There is no solution. We're going through a massive long term socioeconomic correction. At least the GOP has the pragmatic sense to let the economic forces do their thing and not try to prevent the inveitable. All the Dems offer is short term fixes.

SlaveNoMore 10-26-2006 09:22 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Sidd Finch
Yes, and what exactly happened to that bill? My quick Google search reveals that it failed by a vote of 402 to 2, with even Rangel voting against.

Do you really expect that Rangel will seriously try -- not just talk about, but try -- to cut off funding for troops in battle? Or that, if he does try, it'll get anywhere?
So he voted for it, until he voted against it.

I guess John Kerry doesn't have a monopoly on that front

sebastian_dangerfield 10-26-2006 11:05 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by SlaveNoMore
So he voted for it, until he voted against it.

I guess John Kerry doesn't have a monopoly on that front
When I consider a "dry drunk" like W and grandstanding opportunist like Rangel (both of whom have oddly similar shit-eating grins*), I have to wonder whether politicians are like lawyers - they fight it out and then laugh with one another after the decision, comfortable in the knowledge that the winner gets a great gig... And the loser gets an even more lucrative lobbying gig.

Its hard for me not to think these whores fight in front of us and yuk yuk it up when they're done. Is it naive of me to think Chuck and W probably get along smashingly, both fattened nicely on at the govt money trough?

* What a dumb term. I wouldn't be grinning in that situation.

Hank Chinaski 10-26-2006 11:35 PM

Election '06: Prognostication.
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
Its hard for me not to think these whores fight in front of us and yuk yuk it up when they're done. Is it naive of me to think Chuck and W probably get along smashingly, both fattened nicely on at the govt money trough?
Keep that stuff QT, but of course you're right. go to
www.bridgeoflove.com and look for further instructions. your kid blond hair blue eyes? wigs/contacts before the 3rd b-day.

Spanky 10-27-2006 03:24 AM

I Wonder
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Speaking for myself, here's some I'd like to see:



(iv) Comprehensive education reform to encourage more creativity and problem solving, including more equitable funding and less teaching to the test;

(
How about just teaching them to read and write. And to do math. Teaching for the test is a nice mantra put forward by the Teachers Union, but at this point we are just talking about tests for adding and subtracting. In Asia they test up the yin yang, because that is the only way to determine whether or not they are being taught.

The more a country tests, the better their students perform. You test and if you don't pass the test you don't move on. Yes it is stressful for students but its a tough world out there.

Spanky 10-27-2006 03:34 AM

I Wonder
 
Quote:

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
How the Democrats would answer if I asked them to list 5 policies which would counter this meathook reality:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...439766,00.html

ETA: For purposes of the exercise, protectionist measures cannot be utilized. (since they're patently absurd responses).
We have been running a trade deficit since the 1970s. People keep saying that it will destroy America but our economy still keeps outperforming the rest of the developed world. Its getting tough because everyone else is figuring out how to play the game.

The only thing we can do is improve our education system and make sure our internal market is business friendly.

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-27-2006 08:26 AM

I Wonder
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Spanky
How about just teaching them to read and write. And to do math. Teaching for the test is a nice mantra put forward by the Teachers Union, but at this point we are just talking about tests for adding and subtracting. In Asia they test up the yin yang, because that is the only way to determine whether or not they are being taught.

The more a country tests, the better their students perform. You test and if you don't pass the test you don't move on. Yes it is stressful for students but its a tough world out there.
It is simply a poor way to teach, and doesn't play to our strength, which has been inventiveness and creativity. Do you have kids and watch what the teaching to the test does to the school system.

I note, no defense here of the Rs having done squat with their term, other than Sebby's "We gave up and we should have" response. Pshaw.

Hank Chinaski 10-27-2006 09:15 AM

I Wonder
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
It is simply a poor way to teach, and doesn't play to our strength, which has been inventiveness and creativity. Do you have kids and watch what the teaching to the test does to the school system.

I note, no defense here of the Rs having done squat with their term, other than Sebby's "We gave up and we should have" response. Pshaw.
how many kids with just a hs diploma will your bio-tech plan employ?

Greedy,Greedy,Greedy 10-27-2006 10:55 AM

I Wonder
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
how many kids with just a hs diploma will your bio-tech plan employ?
Exactly the point.

Hank Chinaski 10-27-2006 11:20 AM

I Wonder
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Greedy,Greedy,Greedy
Exactly the point.
so your "plan" is to give the entire middle class a technical dgree. hmmm. will that be free like your health plan?


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