Quote:
Originally posted by Hank Chinaski
Except 150 kids didn't die because of some zealots who take biblical passages from 2000 years ago and try and fit them into today. they killed 150 middle school kids. the murderers are 2/3 from a muslim part of Russia that wants to break away. Are you saying this is regional pride and not based upon religion? a third of the murderers were from other islamic countries. Why were they there? do you think they came because they felt strong tie to the regional fight? see, I think the better explaination is that Islamic extremists want to force Russia to give up Checnea forthe greatergood of Allah.
The Islamic extremeists focus on that part of the ancient text which support killing. Pat buchanan probably would like to kill fornicators, but so far he's retrained himself.
all Diane and i said was that it would be nice to see Muslim leaders come out and denounce this action. See wonk, it isn't improbable that this type thing could expand and more freedom fighters do this crap elsewhere. Really, what's to keep two jihadis with submachine guns under their winter coats from capturing a movie theatre here this December showing a new disney release? 150 dead kids in a Chicago suburb- feel different?
And once that shit starts, do you really think the bulk of the American public will look at the world your way?
Not all Muslims are bad, in fact the muslims who do not murder in the name of the religion are the best hope to avoid a race war. sticking your head in the sand about what motivates some muslims to kill is not the real smart move however, and is in fact a step towards a race war.
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You didn't even come close, here, Hank. Pony posted somethng aling the lines of how the US should have nuked Baghdad, then Teheran, then Damascus on successive days after 9/11 because the Koran says that it's okay to beat your wife, as if that was proof that Muslims in general are less worthy as human beings than we are.
Atticus then quoted a passage from the Bible that says that is your son refuses to behaves and drinks and mouths off, that he should be taken to the gates of the city and there be stoned.
Pony then accused Atticus of changing the subject. I responded as you quoted above. I noted that Atticus had statyed right on subject, quoting a passage from an ancient religious text to support the notion that its believers were somehow less worthy as human beings.
Diane said that all Muslims should apologize for the acts of some Islamic terrorists, as though all Muslims bore responsibility for the actions of the Chechen terrorists. She supported her post with a picture of a child that appeared to be dead. I presume the child's picture was there to prove that all Muslims are baby-killers. Given the text of her post, it could have served no other purpose.
I called her a simple-minded bigot, and suggested that she and other so-called patriots who, in the wake of 9/11 and now, apparently, the slaughter in Russia, who are arguing that these atrocities are the responsibility of all members of the Muslim faith are a bigger threat to our freedom than any given Muslim who does not actively engage in terrorism.
I also noted that she disgusted and repulsed me.
Now, having laid out the dialogue as it emerged from the relevant posts, let's examine your post.
- Except 150 kids didn't die because of some zealots who take biblical passages from 2000 years ago and try and fit them into today. they killed 150 middle school kids. the murderers are 2/3 from a muslim part of Russia that wants to break away.
You're completely correst here. These kids didn't die because of some zealot trying to enforce an old text. That is exactly the same point I asserted and the polar opposite of what Diane and Pony said. Where are we in disagreement, Hank?
- All Diane and i said was that it would be nice to see Muslim leaders come out and denounce this action. See wonk, it isn't improbable that this type thing could expand and more freedom fighters do this crap elsewhere. Really, what's to keep two jihadis with submachine guns under their winter coats from capturing a movie theatre here this December showing a new disney release? 150 dead kids in a Chicago suburb- feel different?
Here, you are wrong. That isn't what Diane said at all. She said that all Muslims bear responsibility for this because they haven't come out and condemned it as Muslims. As it happems, that's bullshit. Many Muslim groups have condemned the terrorist action of Islamic extremists. But, and this is more important...
THEY DON"T HAVE TO!!!
Muslims are no more responsible as Muslims for the actions of others than you and I are. To suggest that because they share a faith with the Terrorists, they share the blame is scapegoating and it is the lowest form of discourse and the basest level of ignorance.
150 dead kids in Chicago wouldn't feel diffferent to me. It wouls still be 150 dead kids. And it would still not be the fault of any Muslim other than the ones with the machine guns.
- Not all Muslims are bad, in fact the muslims who do not murder in the name of the religion are the best hope to avoid a race war.
You're right about the first phrase in this sentence. Not all Muslims are bad. The remainder of the sentence is just plain wrong, though. The best hope for aviding a race war is for all thinking, freedom-loving people of the world to refuse to accept, condone, or even ignore statements like those uttered by Diane and Pony.
Because they are the ones who are laying the groundwork for a race war. And that's wrong. It is unacceptable to me and it should be similarly unacceptable to you. To say otherwise is to deal in prejudice and hate. To say otherwise is to aid the terrorists, because that is their aim. To foster hate, suspicion, and violence against people just because of who they are.
It is too facile to say that because all terrorists are Muslims, all Muslims support terrorists. That's no different than saying that because so much street crime is perpetrated by Black and Latino street gangs that Blacks and Latinos support and foster a culture of violence and crime.
I expected better of Pony and I expect better of you. Diane, I have very little in the way of expectations for.
