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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Because that's not how it works. Sometimes, you have your shot and that's it. If you want to get other countries to lower NTB in exchange for lower tariffs, you have to do that when you lower tariffs. You're saying we should come back to the table later, without leverage, and say "pretty please?"
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You are the only one that thinks Labor and environmental rules lower NTBs. Actually you are the only one that has is backwards. Generally labor and environmental rules are considered NTBs. You are the only one that considers not having them NTBs. And cutting tariffs are good for us. Cutting tariffs are not something we give away to get something else. Cutting them is good for us. So we don't say, "there will be no cutting tariffs unless you adopt our labor and environmental standards". If we do that and they don't accept then we don't get tariff cuts. Which is the most important thing. It is like two parent agreeing to put a fence around the neighborhood because it benefits everyone (tariff cuts). But even if the fence protects your kids you then say "I won't accpet the fence unless you also build a swing set for my kids like your kids have". And you decide to vote against the fence, even though it improves the status quo because - you could have gotten a swing set.
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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Is that the best you can do to explain why it's good for U.S. business to compete against foreign companies which don't have to meet the same labor and environmental standards?
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Its all I need to come up with. The current administration does not think (along with most everyone else) that the lack of standard business regulatoins are NTBs. So you are not going to get a bill with stronger standards. So this is good as you are going to get. So if it as good as you are going to get and it improves the status quo, why not vote for it?
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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Yes, it's looking like "all laws are compromise" was the best you can do.
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In my opinion it should end the discussion.
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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Every other free-trade agreement until this one has made progress in that direction. Either you're setting your sights too low, or you're hostile to what the rest of the world thinks about when they think about free trade.
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You consider it progress other people don't. Either way the labor and environmental standards having nothing to do with free trade. You may think they do by your tortured analysis of a level playing field but they are a side issue.
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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Actually, that distinction has nothing at all to do with anything I was talking about. But thanks for playing.
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Actually it is right on point. Am I wrong in saying you wanted me to look into the mirror when I asked why should we push for something that supposedly helps business when business does not want it? You seem to think this level playing field (same enviro, safety and labor regulations) are so important for our businesses to be able to compete. Othewise, like you said "they would have one hand tied behind their back". I said, business doesn't seem to be concerned about this issues. They don't seem to mind having one hand tied behind their back. And you said you knew better than the businesses. Like I said, business knows what is best for business. And if they want tariff reductions and don't care about your level playing field I would tend to think that if we are trying to do what is good for business we should listen to them. Doesn't that make sense.
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Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
I agree. I was just imitating you.
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You seem to think that when you say what business wants and I say what business wants both our assertions have equal validity. That is absurd. When I say business wants to cut tariffs and don't care about your level playing field, that is because that is what the Chamber of Commerce and every other business seems to want. They constantly lobby for tariff cuts and free trade agreements. They never lobby for them to include the stuff you think they should think is important. When you say business is concerned about your version of a level playing field, I have never heard a business complain about a trade pact because there were no labor or environmental standards. I work a lot with the board of the California Chamber of Commerce and do joint projests with them. I think I have pretty good standing to say what American businesses want when it comes to free trade.
