Quote:
Originally posted by Tyrone Slothrop
Implicit in your diatribe here is some belief that I have smiled upon whatever misstatements FDR may have made. I don't think I ever said that, so you are wasting a lot of effort. But I also don't think that the single sentence that Penske dug up carries the weight that you two are trying to put on it. E.g., I can easily imagine that FDR said that it would be a catastrophe for the nation if all of Europe were to succumb to Nazi Germany, but that he also would do all he could to stay out of the war. If so, I think any listener would have understood that he was both trying to assist Britain and keep out of the war. And in light of what actually happened -- that we assisted Britain, and ended up in the war only when attacked by Japan -- if he said that, you'd have no complaint.
So, I'm willing to believe that FDR lied to the public and should be condemned for it, but before I accept that it happened, I need to see more than a single sentence pulled from a 1940 speech.
Meanwhile, I don't understand how you can accuse FDR of lying -- and me of hypocrisy -- on so slender a basis while absolving the current administration of everything. Have you read the 1940 speech that Penske was quoting? Do you know what FDR was saying to people? If you're willing to conclude that FDR lied on the basis of what's above, that looks an awful lot like a double standard. I'm willing to accept that FDR might have done something wrong, so why are you an apologist for W.?
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1) I don't think he did something wrong. If his opponent had won we may have never gone to war with Germany.
2) This is just not a theory I have come up with. I can't believe that you have not heard it before. It is pretty much conventional wisdom (not that that is evidence of its truth) that FDR lied in the 1940 election. It is also conventional wisdom that he pushed the envelope to get us in the war. Before posting on this board I had never heard anyone argue against that idea. Most of the experts that I have heard expound this theory are big FDR supporters. They justify his deceit because after the war, when people saw how awful the Nazi were, it was clear he was right. I agree. But unlike you, when it comes to foreign policy, I expect Presidents to lie, just not when they are under oath.
It is this conventional wisdom that has led to the conspiracy theory that FDR knew about the Pearl Harbour attack but did not warn Hawaii because he wanted to make sure the damage was bad enough so he could go to war with Germany. I don't believe that. But believing that is just about as realistic as thinking FDR in 1940 wasn't going to do everthing in his power to keep us out of the war.
3) As far as Bush is concerned I am convinced he thought there were WMDs. He may have favored the evidence that backed up his belief but that is a far cry from intentional lying - like FDR did. I actually would have minded it so much it he did lie (as long as it was not under oath), but I don't think he did.
