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[Tyrone Slothrop]

Originally posted by sebastian_dangerfield
1. A distinction without a difference for purposes of this discussion. The effort to shut out immigrants is wage protectionism. You know the terms are interchangeable in this scenario. Letting in immigrants does depress low end wages. Why did you write that? I assumed thats an undisputed fact in this discussion.

2. A valid point. I think the laws should benefit Americans, and I think the benefit of immigrant labor outweighs the wage loss to a sector of our society. I also happen to believe that pain will trickle upward into the white collar scene, and I'm willing to accept it because,well, lets face it - we're going to deal with one day or another. Why not sooner?

3. I don't agree with any redistribution other than a base wwelfare program. I don't believe protecting wages for American workers is welfare - its a bit more luxurious and costly than welfare, which is a safety net. Its teaching people a terrible lesson - that you can petition the statehouse to save you from economic reality.

You can't somehow construct through legislative edict a "fair" economy in any nation because economic realities are global. You're advocating a policy which would put our businesses at a disadvantage. Say Bob's Metal Tubing in Illinois has to pay $8.50 per hour for labor. That cost gets passed along to his consumer, a home building company. The home building company goes online and finds a Chinese outfit that sells the tubing for much less than Bob because its labor costs are 1/5 of Bob's. Bob will eventually lose all his business to the Chinese outfit. Your minimum-wage increase "fix' only works if coupled with tariffs, which wreak havoc on trade with foreign nations.

No matter vhow you slice it, you hurt someone. You want to hurt business people; I want to hurt workers.

I don't want to "hurt" anyone. Open borders are not a natural state of affairs. It's a choice. It's not "economic reality" unless you choose to make it that way. If you choose to open the borders and let anyone in, you hurt poor people.